I am a big fan of Tezzeret's U/B Control deck since artifacts are my main thing in magic the gathering. Do you guys think that Contraband Kingpin is another good choice for this deck?
I wish but I think his main problem is that he doesn't fly to stop blinkmoth or to attack safely under a bridge. Also his digging ability is just inferior to the crane, who does fly and who is easier to cast as well. (sometimes you only have 1 colored source T2)
It seems to me that this deck could really profit from Ovalchase Daredevil in combination with Faithless Looting, Collective Brutality or looters like Riddlesmith, Disciple of Deceit or Jace, Vryn's prodigy.
It's basically a Squee with a more relevant body attached that can be abused multiple times per turn.
We generally want to keep the card out of the hand; with collective brutality I've found it's a decent spell to just hardcast if it is the last card in your hand. Often you just discard cards to get low for Ensnaring bridge. Not draining your opponent for 2 isn't a big deal.
What about Prophetic Prism, Consulate Skygate and Filigree Familiar? Could they be useful in the U/B Tezzeret control deck?
Filigree Familiar might be good. I like the lifegain, and maybe the ability to recur it with academy ruins. But I think if I wanted that I would play Wurmcoil Engine again first because that card just stabilizes and then finishes games on its own sometimes (burn).
Checking in: been testing on cockatrice. Beat Jund 2-0, Grixis PyroDelver 1-0, Dubious Challenge combo (huh?) 1-0, and a Tezz mirror 2-0 too. That last one was against a gentleman who I invited to come over and share ideas on the thread. Awesome games I must say. Oh, and then lost 0-4 to Lantern control :/
Ended up dropping the Skirges altogether and including back Ashiok in the board to break boardstalls and control matches. Am still in search of a Fair-tutorable (artifact) Ashiok-esque wincon.
Grindclock as suggested above might not be the worst but it's abrupt decay-able. I personally am looking for a kill spell artifact to tutor; maybe that weird spine of ishsah card. I've used cyclonic rift before and Ugin, the spirit dragon to break such matches. They're also good against UWR decks that board in leyline of sanctity after having gotten shot by tezzeret G1. echoing truth might be good too; raise their ensnaring bridges and swing with citadels.
2-0 bant eldrazi - they have very little game vs us. Can't deal with the darksteels, our hand is empty so killing TKS is drawing a card. Bridge is great of course because it is a continual boardwipe.
2-0 infect - cannot stop the chalice. The blinkmoths are nulled by the glint nest crane and timely dismembers from the board.
1-2 8rack. Terrible matchup I feel. Got him in the 2nd with quick darksteels. 3rd game is one of the weirdest games ever; I land a T2 chalice but he ends up liliana ultimating 5 times because I don't draw anything to finish off. Very bad draws with lands and he ends up finishing me with his mutavault. Could've gone either way in the end.
0-2 Burn. Terrible openers G1 starting with 5 cards, eidolon is just rough. Too late to stabilize game 2.
I think the gatewatch five will all get their own 4 ability planeswalker card at some point.
Liliana, Freed at last (For when she conquers the Veil) 2BB
Planeswaker - Liliana
+2) sacrifice a permanent, gain life equal to its CMC, draw a card
-2) Target player discards a card, then target player sacrifices a creature.
-3) Put a non-land permanent from any graveyard into the battlefield under your control.
-10) You get an emblem that reads: "Whenever a permanent enters a graveyard from the battlefield, return that card to the battlefield under your control."
Starting loyalty: 3
Gideon, Champion of the Sun
Planeswalker - Gideon
+2) Gideon beomes a 6/6 indestructible, haste creature until end of turn, prevent all damage etc.
+1) All your creatures get +2/+2 and vigilance until the start of your next turn.
-0) Put a 2/2 human warrior knight soldier token onto the battlefield with haste, first strike and vigilance.
-6) You get an emblem that reads:" Whenever a creature you control takes damage, put a +1/+1 counter on it equal to the damage. At the start of your upkeep, gain 2 life."
Loyalty: 3
I didn't SBed the Spell Snares in any MU, even if I expected Stony Silence, because I had better cards for the MU anyway (Kiki Chord has few 2 drops and this is also true in other Stony Silence MU). I decided to leave the SS be (if I can't take them with discard)
I wanted to talk about that earlier. Discarding a SS is cool, but if they resolve one, it's not the end of the game. The real answer to such cards is to splash a 3rd colour for better removal spells (Decay, Unmaking). If we don't, we have to attack on different angles (Ensoul, semi-fatties, Tezz, grind with small flyers). I still believe the deck is better without counterspells, we have very few windows where we keep open mana in the early game.
I agree w ith your assessment of counterspells. We are very much a tap out control deck that tries to vomit its hand out ASAP. We also hide behind the Ensnaring bridge. Nothing is more frustrating than holding a Negate in your hand to protect your bridge when he just pings away with blinkmoth nexus or some equally hard to deal with threat that can sneak in. It is not worth that risk to keep up a negate - it is better to just play more artifacts. And I believe the same can be said for any other counterspell - they need a target in a very specific window or they are dead and open up a hole in our armor. I played 2 negates for the longest time but now that I am off them I do much better with the bridge. (Collective Brutality also helps!)
I also agree with your stony Silence assessment; if they drop an early stony silence it is pretty rough, but it doesn't prevent you from turning your darksteel citadels sideways if they're 5/5's. It also doesn't stop Ensnaring Bridge or Torpor orb or any of our other disruptive artifacts - they are static effects. The loss of mana rocks and moxes etc is rough but we can deal fairly well because it does not shut off our plans: beat down with 5/5's or Tezzeret ultimate -4.
Radouf > I played Maelstrom pulse for awhile in the side but never really brought it in and forgot about it. I believe it is a good option as well. I like Ancient Grudge specifically as I usually only need to kill 1 thing and Lantern cannot really deal with it because of the flash back. I think finding room for a maelstrom pulse (maybe instead of one of the main deck abrupt decays) is still a good option and I will try that out as well.
G1 2-0 vs bant Tron eldrazi. Bridge locks them out fairly easily. Tezzeret shoots them. Easy matchup once you've played it.
G2 1-2 vs Naya Burn; Chalice on 1 is great; Gilt Nest Crane blocks a guy, but the 2nd game when I turned the tables around and stabilized I attacked with my 5/5 spellskite and mutavault for the kill, but he had a deflecting palm. Very rough. G3 he just kept drawing his atarka commands and boros charms to get past my chalice on 1.
G3 1-1-1 vs Lanter. What a matchup. We've played before so we know what we're in. Inventor's fair does great work for both of us. G1 I crush him with an early chalice into tezzeret into beatdown. G2 he gets me with the lock with tezzeret on 4 under pithing needle (which he fetched with inventor's fair) and triple bridges and a spellskite. I only have one abrupt decay left so we go to G3. This one we end in turns, after I spend time pecking at him with mutavault and cranes. but I would have lost due to his mill ability; and again tezzeret, liliana, explosives, etc under needle. Extremely grindy but pretty fun. Exhausting though.
G4 2-0 BW Tokens 2-0; Both games he starts off with inquisition/thoughtseize for the first two turns. G1 I hit him with tezzeret from behind the bridge. The second game he drops a T2 stony silence while I have a darksteel and mox opal out, which is incredibly rough, but I manage to stabilize with a swan stopping his spirits. I stabilize with tezzeret and create 5/5 citadels out of my otherwise inactive lands. They beat face. Swans did great at stopping the spirits from killing Tezzeret.
G5 2-1 GR Tron; Game 1 I win with quick citadels. Game 2 I strip his first ugin with thoughtseize and later his second with hero's downfall, his oblivion stone with pithing needle but he follows up with a wurmcoil and an ulamog and a karn. Game 3 he mulls to 5, but still gets natural tron. I curve out nice play an early swan, attack him with swans and make 5/5 with tezzeret as quick as I can. I think I downfalled an ugin again. He plays a Karn while at 6 life and I have a swan and 2 5/5's. I play my aethergrid and attack.
Inventor's fair is a good card. The life gain is very real and the tutoring is just downright amazing. Very good card.
The Glint Nest Swan is just an all star. He is the gorilla glue that we needed to make our deck so much more consistent. It really is like a baleful strix; a flying body that can block that replaces itself with a quality card. It is a really good card.
Now, I think I need ancient grudge in the sideboard x2 which will allow me to break through the lantern matchup with ease -one timely pithing needle destruction can have you shoot tezz for the win as they often let you build up enough artifacts as you both sit on your butts.
For the first time since I've played this deck in modern did it feel like a real deck. I have been playing this for almost two years now I think. The crane did so much work in blocking, chipping away and drawing a card you need. I think we can have a few more one-off's due to the crane's tutoring assistance. Combined that with Tezzeret himself and the inventor's fair, the deck has just stepped up two rungs on the consistency ladder.
(Managed to get a Foil Inventor's Fair. Very happy about that too)
Gilt Crane is incredible. Inventor's fair is great. These were great additions to the deck. The crane is a great early play fetching you what you need and blocking enough dorks and other 2/1's to stop them from attacking too aggressively. It is ideal to get to the middle game (i.e. bridge). Inventor's fair lifegain is sweet/real, but the ability to tutor up whatever we need is just great. Do not underestimate the static lifegain in a slow control deck. Remember all those matches that you're sitting behind a bridge for turns on end waiting to draw something beyond a land? (Our deck can be clunky). This can gain you some life while you wait or you can fetch the artifact that wins the game. (sword/thopter foundry? Other wincons beyond Tezzeret?)
I really think we need to adjust our lenses to those cards. Crane is a 4-off, great early card, much like baleful strix in legacy; annoying little flying blocker that fetches you a card and is blue (if only that mattered in Modern). I would love to like Filigree Familiar, but he does not fly - and the crane does, which can stop blinkmoth nexus pings. With all the collective brutalities etc, a lot of our removal has become sorcery speed, so to have this to fulfill the strix role is great.
Another thing I'm debating about is whether Academy Ruins is wanted in my list. I'm sure I'll never ever play 2 copies, but even the one-of remains absolutely useless in my current testing. If you guys could remind me where it's good, what MUs or situations, because I can't remember the times I used it for the win... That would give me a slot for a 3rd Inventors' Fair or a UB land.
Academy ruins is the kind of card that you never use it when you bring it, but the one night you take it out you need it every single game. Generally it is good with engineered explosives and wurmcoil.
I like Padeem a lot. 1/4 is a good body to block with, the card draw is real (and I really don't mind having more draw-1 effects. With the ramp we have, you should have no problem playing 2 cards from your hand per turn. Liliana and collective brutality also assist with managing your hand size.) The only negative is that he shuts down your spellskite, but he basically does the same work. I think he's worth testing.
keep the talismans; don't bring the mishra's baubles. the ramp is real. Spending turn 3 playing damnation or playing land, talisman, talisman into inquisition/thoughtseize is a fairly reasonable play - untapping with 5 mana T4 is great -they help emptying your hand quickly.
I think both the contraband kingpin and the Crane have potential.
Tron: how many SB slots do you want to devote to this match-up & how much will it really improve it? Like they say for Jund, 5 sideboard slots to make a 25/75 match-up 40/60 may not be worth it. So, I tend not to devote too many slots to it. Ceremonious Rejection would be of some relevance against Tron, Affinity and Eldrazi. But it could as well be Negate. Or Vendilion Clique. Honnestly some more sideboard targeted discard is what I've had the best experience with. And a clock, you need a clock. LD? Meh. They have so much redundancy that it's really just slowing them down, unless you go all-in with the expensive Crumble to Dust, but sometimes there's already a Karn in play at that point of the game. So after yesterday's match, I went +1 Thoughtseize in the board, and am thinking about adding a second Ensoul Artifact either main or side as well.
I agree with your analysis of the Tron Matchup. It is hard for us to beat Tron because they have a similar main gameplan (go over the top) that they do better than us (Karn, Ugin, Ulamog). In addition they now run Worldbreakers who also exile on cast so countering them or torpor orb is pointless. Luckily, Tron is never very present, it waxes and wanes a lot. I just see Tron as our one almost unwinnable matchup. How many Karn's can you negate before they drop Ulamogs etc and just break you that way? It is hard to win unless we use a lot of disruption (thoughtseize/inquisition) and get a good tempo draw, and those are often hard to combine.
Ceremonious rejection is probably going to be awful for us I think. It will be sideboarded everywhere against Tron, Affinity, Eldrazi, etc and we will feel the fallout for it.
Once you make one, you can keep making as many as you have mana available though since the third triggers the first again. Its like thopter foundry/sword but without the lifegain or flying and instead you gain 2/2's and energy. You could put all the +1/+1 counters on a hangarback though and still get the thopters the long way around /s.
I feel slightly teased having to wait another 3 months before the new Tezzeret while Nissa hasn't even shown up to Kaladesh yet in the story.
In my experience they're sitting with a semi-full hand because my chalice is locking their 1 drops out. This might encourage them to play all their 1 drops, but I suppose we could turn it into a thopter for 1 mana if it becomes problematic?
This card might also be hot garbage. I really don't know yet.
this card is going to be mega great; never the problem of drawing 2 lands behind a bridge. Easy to activate behind a bridge. Its an artifact. Goes with the rest of the maniacal supervillain nature of this deck. Also plays great with Collective Brutality.
Gold-Wired Familiar is almost a baby strix, but I am doubting if it is good enough. I like the abilities a lot; we need both, but 3 mana for a 2/2 that doesn't actually take out an enemy creature is a bit steep. The power of baleful strix is drawing a card and killing a tarmogoyf (and being blue).
I wish but I think his main problem is that he doesn't fly to stop blinkmoth or to attack safely under a bridge. Also his digging ability is just inferior to the crane, who does fly and who is easier to cast as well. (sometimes you only have 1 colored source T2)
We generally want to keep the card out of the hand; with collective brutality I've found it's a decent spell to just hardcast if it is the last card in your hand. Often you just discard cards to get low for Ensnaring bridge. Not draining your opponent for 2 isn't a big deal.
Filigree Familiar might be good. I like the lifegain, and maybe the ability to recur it with academy ruins. But I think if I wanted that I would play Wurmcoil Engine again first because that card just stabilizes and then finishes games on its own sometimes (burn).
Grindclock as suggested above might not be the worst but it's abrupt decay-able. I personally am looking for a kill spell artifact to tutor; maybe that weird spine of ishsah card. I've used cyclonic rift before and Ugin, the spirit dragon to break such matches. They're also good against UWR decks that board in leyline of sanctity after having gotten shot by tezzeret G1. echoing truth might be good too; raise their ensnaring bridges and swing with citadels.
2-0 bant eldrazi - they have very little game vs us. Can't deal with the darksteels, our hand is empty so killing TKS is drawing a card. Bridge is great of course because it is a continual boardwipe.
2-0 infect - cannot stop the chalice. The blinkmoths are nulled by the glint nest crane and timely dismembers from the board.
1-2 8rack. Terrible matchup I feel. Got him in the 2nd with quick darksteels. 3rd game is one of the weirdest games ever; I land a T2 chalice but he ends up liliana ultimating 5 times because I don't draw anything to finish off. Very bad draws with lands and he ends up finishing me with his mutavault. Could've gone either way in the end.
0-2 Burn. Terrible openers G1 starting with 5 cards, eidolon is just rough. Too late to stabilize game 2.
Liliana, Freed at last (For when she conquers the Veil) 2BB
Planeswaker - Liliana
+2) sacrifice a permanent, gain life equal to its CMC, draw a card
-2) Target player discards a card, then target player sacrifices a creature.
-3) Put a non-land permanent from any graveyard into the battlefield under your control.
-10) You get an emblem that reads: "Whenever a permanent enters a graveyard from the battlefield, return that card to the battlefield under your control."
Starting loyalty: 3
Gideon, Champion of the Sun
Planeswalker - Gideon
+2) Gideon beomes a 6/6 indestructible, haste creature until end of turn, prevent all damage etc.
+1) All your creatures get +2/+2 and vigilance until the start of your next turn.
-0) Put a 2/2 human warrior knight soldier token onto the battlefield with haste, first strike and vigilance.
-6) You get an emblem that reads:" Whenever a creature you control takes damage, put a +1/+1 counter on it equal to the damage. At the start of your upkeep, gain 2 life."
Loyalty: 3
I agree w ith your assessment of counterspells. We are very much a tap out control deck that tries to vomit its hand out ASAP. We also hide behind the Ensnaring bridge. Nothing is more frustrating than holding a Negate in your hand to protect your bridge when he just pings away with blinkmoth nexus or some equally hard to deal with threat that can sneak in. It is not worth that risk to keep up a negate - it is better to just play more artifacts. And I believe the same can be said for any other counterspell - they need a target in a very specific window or they are dead and open up a hole in our armor. I played 2 negates for the longest time but now that I am off them I do much better with the bridge. (Collective Brutality also helps!)
I also agree with your stony Silence assessment; if they drop an early stony silence it is pretty rough, but it doesn't prevent you from turning your darksteel citadels sideways if they're 5/5's. It also doesn't stop Ensnaring Bridge or Torpor orb or any of our other disruptive artifacts - they are static effects. The loss of mana rocks and moxes etc is rough but we can deal fairly well because it does not shut off our plans: beat down with 5/5's or Tezzeret ultimate -4.
Radouf > I played Maelstrom pulse for awhile in the side but never really brought it in and forgot about it. I believe it is a good option as well. I like Ancient Grudge specifically as I usually only need to kill 1 thing and Lantern cannot really deal with it because of the flash back. I think finding room for a maelstrom pulse (maybe instead of one of the main deck abrupt decays) is still a good option and I will try that out as well.
G1 2-0 vs bant Tron eldrazi. Bridge locks them out fairly easily. Tezzeret shoots them. Easy matchup once you've played it.
G2 1-2 vs Naya Burn; Chalice on 1 is great; Gilt Nest Crane blocks a guy, but the 2nd game when I turned the tables around and stabilized I attacked with my 5/5 spellskite and mutavault for the kill, but he had a deflecting palm. Very rough. G3 he just kept drawing his atarka commands and boros charms to get past my chalice on 1.
G3 1-1-1 vs Lanter. What a matchup. We've played before so we know what we're in. Inventor's fair does great work for both of us. G1 I crush him with an early chalice into tezzeret into beatdown. G2 he gets me with the lock with tezzeret on 4 under pithing needle (which he fetched with inventor's fair) and triple bridges and a spellskite. I only have one abrupt decay left so we go to G3. This one we end in turns, after I spend time pecking at him with mutavault and cranes. but I would have lost due to his mill ability; and again tezzeret, liliana, explosives, etc under needle. Extremely grindy but pretty fun. Exhausting though.
G4 2-0 BW Tokens 2-0; Both games he starts off with inquisition/thoughtseize for the first two turns. G1 I hit him with tezzeret from behind the bridge. The second game he drops a T2 stony silence while I have a darksteel and mox opal out, which is incredibly rough, but I manage to stabilize with a swan stopping his spirits. I stabilize with tezzeret and create 5/5 citadels out of my otherwise inactive lands. They beat face. Swans did great at stopping the spirits from killing Tezzeret.
G5 2-1 GR Tron; Game 1 I win with quick citadels. Game 2 I strip his first ugin with thoughtseize and later his second with hero's downfall, his oblivion stone with pithing needle but he follows up with a wurmcoil and an ulamog and a karn. Game 3 he mulls to 5, but still gets natural tron. I curve out nice play an early swan, attack him with swans and make 5/5 with tezzeret as quick as I can. I think I downfalled an ugin again. He plays a Karn while at 6 life and I have a swan and 2 5/5's. I play my aethergrid and attack.
Inventor's fair is a good card. The life gain is very real and the tutoring is just downright amazing. Very good card.
The Glint Nest Swan is just an all star. He is the gorilla glue that we needed to make our deck so much more consistent. It really is like a baleful strix; a flying body that can block that replaces itself with a quality card. It is a really good card.
My List:
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Liliana of the Veil
Instants:
2 Thirst for Knowledge
2 abrupt decay
Sorceries:
2 Damnation
2 Collective Brutality
Creatures:
2 spellskite
4 glint-nest Crane
Artifacts:
4 Talisman of Dominance
4 Mox Opal
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Torpor Orb
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 engineered explosives
4 polluted delta
1 watery grave
1 overgrown tomb
2 glimmervoid
2 inventor's fair
4 darksteel citadel
1 island
1 swamp
1 academy ruins
2 mutavault
2 darkslick shores
1 radiant flames
1 Ghirapur aether grid
2 Grafdigger's cage
2 ethersworn canonist
2 dismember
1 hero's downfall
4 thoughtseize
2 pithing needle
Now, I think I need ancient grudge in the sideboard x2 which will allow me to break through the lantern matchup with ease -one timely pithing needle destruction can have you shoot tezz for the win as they often let you build up enough artifacts as you both sit on your butts.
For the first time since I've played this deck in modern did it feel like a real deck. I have been playing this for almost two years now I think. The crane did so much work in blocking, chipping away and drawing a card you need. I think we can have a few more one-off's due to the crane's tutoring assistance. Combined that with Tezzeret himself and the inventor's fair, the deck has just stepped up two rungs on the consistency ladder.
(Managed to get a Foil Inventor's Fair. Very happy about that too)
I really think we need to adjust our lenses to those cards. Crane is a 4-off, great early card, much like baleful strix in legacy; annoying little flying blocker that fetches you a card and is blue (if only that mattered in Modern). I would love to like Filigree Familiar, but he does not fly - and the crane does, which can stop blinkmoth nexus pings. With all the collective brutalities etc, a lot of our removal has become sorcery speed, so to have this to fulfill the strix role is great.
Instant
Discard a card. Destroy target enchantment or artifact.
Academy ruins is the kind of card that you never use it when you bring it, but the one night you take it out you need it every single game. Generally it is good with engineered explosives and wurmcoil.
I think both the contraband kingpin and the Crane have potential.
I agree with your analysis of the Tron Matchup. It is hard for us to beat Tron because they have a similar main gameplan (go over the top) that they do better than us (Karn, Ugin, Ulamog). In addition they now run Worldbreakers who also exile on cast so countering them or torpor orb is pointless. Luckily, Tron is never very present, it waxes and wanes a lot. I just see Tron as our one almost unwinnable matchup. How many Karn's can you negate before they drop Ulamogs etc and just break you that way? It is hard to win unless we use a lot of disruption (thoughtseize/inquisition) and get a good tempo draw, and those are often hard to combine.
Ceremonious rejection is probably going to be awful for us I think. It will be sideboarded everywhere against Tron, Affinity, Eldrazi, etc and we will feel the fallout for it.
I feel slightly teased having to wait another 3 months before the new Tezzeret while Nissa hasn't even shown up to Kaladesh yet in the story.
This card might also be hot garbage. I really don't know yet.
this card is going to be mega great; never the problem of drawing 2 lands behind a bridge. Easy to activate behind a bridge. Its an artifact. Goes with the rest of the maniacal supervillain nature of this deck. Also plays great with Collective Brutality.