I don't understand why there should be negativity at all. Let people play whichever version they prefer. With that in mind, are they not looking for feedback when they come and post lists, results or opinions? If they don't want to know what other people think of their ideas then they would keep to themselves, right? Why else are you sharing something with the community if you don't want to discuss it?
I sure neither Rob nor I not anyne else wants to shoot down other people just for the sake of insulting them or because they get a really good vibe out of introducing negativity and hostility to the conversation. No, we share our opinion on the matter. Everybody is trying to convince the others that their point of view is the correct one and it's just a matter of how good they are at it, how strong their arguments are and how willing to listen the intended recipient is. Personally, I want to help as many people who like playing 8Rack to play the best deck they possibly can. That's all I want. But this means telling others the hard truth that Smallpox is an incredibly bad Modern card. I'm sorry, but a symmetrical effect that's negative just as much for you as it is for the opponent doesn't work well with a deck that doesn't break it's symmetry and even the deck that's designed to do that, Loam Pox, isn't nearly good enough to be competitive. Well maaaaaybe that should tell you that the card simply doesn't do enough work in Modern for a deck that doesn't negate it's downsides to be playing it.
How is that negative in any way? It's a statement of facts which I personally consider to be correct. You don't have to agree and you don't have to be offended because somebody else doesn't think the card you are running is *****. Where is the negativity in people trying to help eachother out? Hang on a second, I want to help you here. From my point of view I'm trying to help you understand that Smallpox is bad, to help you improve your list, improve your chances of success and help you play a better, more enjoable version of the deck that won't kill itself so often. You might not agree with my opinion, but there is no negativity here.
Perhaps sometimes Rob phrases things a little aggressively. To hell with it, I personally do that on a much more regular basis. For this I am sorry, it shouldn't happen. But when I see a list with only 3 Thoughtseize of somebody says it's ok to side them out against aggro, no, I'm not going to stand by and say "Hey man what an awesome list". I feel the obligation to at least try to help them and anyone else who might happen to read about it. My point of view doesn't necessarily have to be objectively correct - but I believe it is. In fact we are all a bunch of people trying to force their points of view on the others, because we want to help them. There is no negativiry in that whatsoever.
I think maybe you can mention about Crucible of worlds maybe in flex slots or SB. Been using it, great so far!
Brings back fetch land to get me lands if i don't draw any.
Brings back ghost quarter to blow up tron lands or other lands.
Saved me in match up against Gruul land loss.
Brings back emeria when the opponent destroyed it or when i ghost quarter my own Emeria to save it from crumble to dust, and bring it back again.
Tom Ross's list is...inconsistent. The only way you are going to win an event with a list like that is to get REALLY lucky and avoid bad matches. 4 pox, 4 dismember, no bridge. You are basically auto scooping to anything with a reasonable clock. The infect match featured showed Infect winning game 1 then mulliganing to 4-5 for games 2 and 3. Those are the type of wins you are going to have to hope for.
That said, there is power to the 8Rack core. So much so that even when you make terrible design choices like Tom Ross, there is still enough "get there" built into the core that success can be reached with luck.
Inconsistent lol. Any proofs? Tom's list has 14 removals mainboard (on top of discard) how does it auto scoop vs anything with a reasonable clock?)
There are 6 finishes worth mentioning for 8Rack in last two years on mtgtop8. 1 of them is strange brew with smallpoxes, bridges and ancient stirrings(!), 2 bridge builds and 3 Ross's lists with smallpoxes. On top of that there is Tom's victory in super iq and my record with 8rack on xmage. Smallpox build has more results and proved its ability to take down tourneys.
@Chandra
double red is tough, we dont need ramp, we dont need 2 damage to opponents, 4cc is tough.
Yeah, and how many people are playing it? Not many, so in a way that proves its a high performer. Listen PLay Tom's list if you want I really do hope it works for you. I have not had good results.
I play the bridge version and i admit i prefer the bridge version. In my opinion i have more wins with the bridge 8rack. But i also have to say smallpox is fine.
I think as an 8rack thread/community. We should support different variations of the Deck, example U-TRON plays 2 variations one with more lands the other with less, you don't see people of different variations shooting each other down when one puts up results.
Smallpox version puts up results recently, its not my build and i'm still going to say i rather have bridge, but i will probably give smallpox a try again because why not? I appreciate the fact that you are one of the pioneers of 8rack and this thread. So when you shoot people who feature their smallpox build, they are bound to be unhappy or hurt about it because people actually respect you.
I know you don't owe anyone happiness or you probably just can't be bothered if people care about your negativity towards the pox build. But ultimately, this community should support each other when positive things happen for this deck build. Because The Pox build is still 8rack ultimately, however you look at it. Just be happy for the people who had success with it instead of shooting them down. This way the Thread can grow as a whole positively, instead of it being a "I shoot you down and we argue, negative thread."
One of the main focuses of this deck is velocity, and you need to trade mana with your opponent while pulling out ahead, or be able to survive them dumping their entire hand. Remand was great before the average CMC dropped to like 1, but at least it's a cantrip. Inquisition trades 1 mana for 0. You're basically spending a mana to (hopefully) trade with a card in your opponent's hand, which means it has to be able to hit a key spell to average out the 50-60% fail rate (the percentage of times you draw it outside your opener). Which means your opponent has to have key spells costing less than 4 mana, otherwise Inquisition is like an awful version of Smother. Counterspells are a liability if you can't answer the board, but don't compare them with discard, since discard is almost worthless once your opponent plays out their initial hand. Midrange decks have aggressive sequences that they pair the discard with, to balance out the drawbacks with auto-wins. This is what Amalek was referring to.
Technically, Inquisition can trade 1 mana for up to 3 mana if you get lucky and nag what would be his only next play for the turn. And the 1 mana price is a null/minor opportunity cost, because often we weren't spending that mana turn 1 anyways. But those are all minor nitpicks, and I do agree with the theory behind pros and cons of discard, you nailed it on all points.
What I was saying, however, is that the premises required for discard to be good are present in the current metagame, because they do help me survive early. From a previous post:
"Inquisition does help you live past turn 3 by taking a critical piece out of their hand, which is exactly what you neeed. Think how a lot of the linear decks just fold without one of their key components - the optimal way to pilot Death's Shadow Zoo, Affinity and Infect relies on agressive mulliganing unless there is one the 12-15 haymakers. That can be exploited."
I don't see why I have to follow discard with tap-out threats necessarily, though. While midrange decks want to follow discard with a clock, I can follow discard with high-impact card advantage and run away with the game anyways. I still want to keep plaing instant speed draw-go after the turn 1 Inquisition, which is why I disagreed with amalek0 on the relevance of being "tap-out" or "draw-go". The turns where I am playing discard/serum visions are not the turns where I could want to be holding counterspell or other instants instead. Those are just a few cheap sorceries, to keep things in perspective.
And I find it fair to compare discard to conditional counterspell, because both are a liability as late game draws. Discard is obviously worse, but topdecking that Spell Snare turn 10 is also quite bad.
You've also got 4 Path and 4 Snare/Serum Visions that turn it on. And if you don't remove Think Twice from your list, there's only a few spells you even want to counter on turn 2. Even if you don't have Verdict in your hand, against a lot of decks you're basically going to lose if you don't eventually find one. I mostly try not to burn a counter on turn 2, unless I have nothing else to do or I don't think I'm going to be able to answer that card. You're definitely setting yourself back by countering a Tarmogoyf or Lord of Atlantis on turn 2 with Logic Knot, if you could be cycling through your deck and hitting land drops.
I was answering specifically to Annihilator, who said he only had 8 fetches as enablers and concluded they were enough because he wasn't missing.
And I disagree on the bit about not having enough things I want to counter turn 2. I basically want to counter everything they play in that stage of the game that can affect the board, even with a Wrath in hand.
I'm actually glad you speak up and gave your inputs about this, because i didn't really dare to give my views on boarding in discard spells when the primer and lists didn't include any. This helps in evolving and improving Esper Control.
Have to agree with you on using Inquisitions and thoughtseize. I started playing esper not too long ago just before wafo started 5-0 in MTGO, because i wanted to have a different control deck opposed to my cousins who were playing Jeskai Nahiri and Grixis Control/Delver. I realize esper have a serious problem with early threats, it feels like i'm struggling way too much just by playing the draw go game only. There were times where i win a few games and there were times i lose several games without putting much of a challenge, and my opponent just shrugs "oh well... maybe u just didn't draw what you need."
So i decided to modify and play a more proactive/tapout Esper Control and started winning more games. Because removing the threats from their hand and also looking at their hand is as good as countering the spells.
Bumping. Looking for input in my decklist. It's still pretty casual and I haven't have many match ups with it yet but I have already built it. With the little match ups I've had, I can say that the main problem I have is hopefully just because of bad draws (Went an entire match without drawing Miscreant or a Ninja). This is my first build so I'm not expecting much of anything but the Ninjutsu Mechanic really interests me
Enablers
x4 Ornithopter
x2 Zephyr Sprite (Replacing with Faerie Impostor, a vanilla flying 1/1 just isn't that useful, this at least let's me recycle Ninjas and Spellstutter Sprite along with being a 2/1)
x4 Faerie Miscreant
Right now, Mistblade Shinobi only really does is annoy my opponent, I'm thinking of possibly adding Hidden Strings then more Counter Spells possibly creature counter spells since unless I get an Aqueous Form, my Ninja's are sitting ducks, plus it just seems like a good plan, have my MS bounce a creature then counter it the turn after (Preferably with something like Psychic Barrier), alternatively just get more normal counterspells like Spell Syphon and Rune Snag
My advice is to play more enablers, or you may run into problems where you draw no enablers and you have ninjas stuck in your hand. If you are playing spellstutter, you should increase the faerie count, put in 4 zephyr sprites maybe a few quickling or faerie impostor. If you have the budget mistbind clique is a great card if you go faerie heavy. scion of oona can also be included. I always view ninjas as the compliment cards, the enablers should pack a punch to end the game also.
I think 2 familiar's ruse is enough, there are some occasions where you can't counter because you have no creatures on the board. The best ninja is deep hours because its a 2cc ninjutsu 2/2 and a card draw. You may want to cut down on mistblades, maybe 2 is enough. Because these days many decks play creatures with Enter the battlefield effects, which are unfavorable to mistblade. If you play mono blue, Dismember is a great card to remove huge creatures.
I think Higure is too expensive. I decided to cut him off the list years ago because tapping out for him usually cost me the game sometimes. But i guess in late games he is alright. Hope this input helps!
Don't worry.. every ninja deck is always casual. haha
I know this thread might be archived but, just wanted to share with you guys this deck. Surprisingly did pretty alright on Xmage. I know the deck looks quite unpolished and messy, and i've only tested in a few matches. But i just want to give my feedback that in a ninja based deck the ninjas are only complimentary, i think that everyone pretty much knows this. So i just figured the enablers should finish the game.
Signal pest
You can win by beating down with un-blockables, affinity style.
Inkfathom witch
Inkfathom is the finisher. Dealing loads of damage or ending the game with witch and un-blockables. Inkfathom can also turn opponent unblocked attacking creatures into 4/1s. Maybe we can explore more on that. Imagine letting the opponent's creatures go through, and then you play marrow shards and they have no answer for that.
Dimir Infiltrator
Is actually a tutor too. Many times i use dimir to transmute a counterspell, inkfathom, removal or even a skullsnatcher for Graveyard hate etc etc.
I'll update more when i have the time. I think maybe adding space for ghost quarters would help.
I've attached some in game pictures below. My experience with Ninjas on Xmage was quite fun. There was even an elf player who refused to allow me to rollback when i accidently clicked inkfathom's ability a phase too early to end the game, haha got too excited. He was really really salty and sour.
I am wondering if I could see a current U/W 75 for those of you wbk are still going to your local game shop with your Sun Titan decks, I have somewhere around 10 events played with this deck; it has certainly been a lot of fun. But I would like to compare my list with another Blue White list to see how people are combating current decks with our arsenal.
This is my current list after many iterations. Played games at local shops, play testing with cousins and games in xmage.
My deck actually started off as Mono White Emeria, after getting pieces for UW i realize UW version is definitely superior. Just going to list some card choices and why. Cards which i didn't talk about but in the list are probably cards we really need and don't really need explanation.
Court Hussar - Initially i thought Court Hussar wasn't really a fantastic card so i played one, decided to just play 3 eventually. It wins me games, MVP card, filter for my answers, don't even mind flickering it and let it die. I remembered i Court Hussar my way to get negates. The opponent was playing a mill deck, he got frustrated as hell. Lone Missionary - I've tested Inquisitor Exarch and found a few problems. Its double white, sometimes i encounter hands like 1 ghost quarter 1 island 1 plains, its frustrating when you can't cast it. It also gains me 2 life only, Lone Missionary does a better job at keeping you alive by giving you 4 life. The Inquisitor has its perks like opponent loses 2 life and it have 2 toughness and all, but Emeria plays a long game, just felt we don't really need to race. Pilgrim's Eye - Many times that additional basic land search helps you get to 6 mana faster for titan or 7 plains for emeria, its a 1/1 flyer, can block inkmoth and since its an artifact, it can block etch champion. Have tested with and without it. I still feel Pilgrim's Eye is important in the 3cc slot. Crucible of Worlds - Flex slot, just felt its kinda good to get fetch land back or ghost quarter or a destroyed Emeria. Maybe this slot could be Mortar Pod cause i like that card too.
For sideboards.. pretty similar to most, but i have 3 Ghostly Prison, makes matches against aggro much easier especially against decks like infect. Slows down Dredge and explosive elves. After all they need to pay to attack, if they lack the mana, they can't go through. Nevermore and the additional Negates help us a lot against combo decks. Tormod's Crypt Graveyard hate which doesn't hurt my own Graveyard, can be returned by Sun Titan and sac immediately.
I play 24 lands, maybe 3 Emeria is enough or its better to have additional Ghost quarter, i still play 4 Emeria though. Although i wouldn't say my list is fantastic, but i think its more consistent and better compared to my older versions, i actually win more games with this current list. Hope you and everyone else like my share of Information =D.
As an 8rack player with 2 pack rats maindeck. I actually won quite a number of games with rats. Infact.. i actually feel safer knowing rats can single handedly kill an opponent with no answers for it. This comes from someone who plays smallpox initially. IMO pack rats are that alternate win con. When the rack fails or when i see my opponent have no removals/removed their removals. Just play the rat and keep making rats to win.
Hey guys. First time posting here. I've been playing 8 rack for pretty long against my cousins. It's my favourite deck because its niche, different and quite formidable against the top decks.
So when the Eldrazi hype started my 8rack was able to beat my cousin's B\W Eldrazi deck easily. With the usual way it does, discards, bridge, lily and racks.
As you know MTG is an evolving game, so my cousin starts to improve his deck overall to deal with 8rack.
The 2 main things that he brought in to beat me were Endbringer & Oblivion ring.
Endbringer is a card in his main, gave him card advantage and it could kill me over the bridge. Oblivion ring is a card he sideboarded in to make it harder for me, exile my bridge or lily. The card which screws me up the most was Endbringer. If he have an eye of ugin he could search for one more too.
I played 4 games with him and only won 1 with packrats and because he kept a bad hand with no eldrazi lands.
Solutions i can only think of were surgical extraction and pithing needle. Painter's servant is too expensive now and im thinking if there are other alternatives and just sharing with you guys some info. My deck list is very similar to the standard 8rack build you guys use nothing out of the ordinary.
4x liliana
4x Raven's crime
4x thoughtseize
4x inquistition
4x wrench mind
4x the rack
3x shrieking affliction
1x slaughter pact
2x dismember
1x victim of the night
2x pack rat
4x ensnaring bridge
The problem you are experiencing is one that 8Rack is not intended to overcome. It's easy to sideboard against 8Rack and ruin your chances. Your pal knows you are playing 8Rack and thus he knows he is in no danger of getting burned out in 4 turns. Thus worldbringer main and hate cards coming in after game 1.
Haha yeah i guess so. But nevermind.. i had a match with him again. The 8Rack did well. 1st game won by the usual discard bridge lotv rack. Was a long tough 1st game. despite lotv ultimate, he was still fighting back but eventually conceded.
2nd game i decided to sub out bridge to try a different strategy, i guess due to poor side board choices i got overrun by eldrazis.
3rd game went like this. turn 1 Thoughtseize his removal, turn 2 pack rat and next few turns just more pack rats after that. Won with pack rats.
I guess sometimes there are really bad days for 8rack and some good days. One thing i realize is how good pack rats really is. At one point i was deciding smallpox or packrats. But packrats have won me quite a number of games. So yeah.. packrats for the win for me.
Hey guys. First time posting here. I've been playing 8 rack for pretty long against my cousins. It's my favourite deck because its niche, different and quite formidable against the top decks.
So when the Eldrazi hype started my 8rack was able to beat my cousin's B\W Eldrazi deck easily. With the usual way it does, discards, bridge, lily and racks.
As you know MTG is an evolving game, so my cousin starts to improve his deck overall to deal with 8rack.
The 2 main things that he brought in to beat me were Endbringer & Oblivion ring.
Endbringer is a card in his main, gave him card advantage and it could kill me over the bridge. Oblivion ring is a card he sideboarded in to make it harder for me, exile my bridge or lily. The card which screws me up the most was Endbringer. If he have an eye of ugin he could search for one more too.
I played 4 games with him and only won 1 with packrats and because he kept a bad hand with no eldrazi lands.
Solutions i can only think of were surgical extraction and pithing needle. Painter's servant is too expensive now and im thinking if there are other alternatives and just sharing with you guys some info. My deck list is very similar to the standard 8rack build you guys use nothing out of the ordinary.
4x liliana
4x Raven's crime
4x thoughtseize
4x inquistition
4x wrench mind
4x the rack
3x shrieking affliction
1x slaughter pact
2x dismember
1x victim of the night
2x pack rat
4x ensnaring bridge
Hmm ok.
I think maybe you can mention about Crucible of worlds maybe in flex slots or SB. Been using it, great so far!
Brings back fetch land to get me lands if i don't draw any.
Brings back ghost quarter to blow up tron lands or other lands.
Saved me in match up against Gruul land loss.
Brings back emeria when the opponent destroyed it or when i ghost quarter my own Emeria to save it from crumble to dust, and bring it back again.
I play the bridge version and i admit i prefer the bridge version. In my opinion i have more wins with the bridge 8rack. But i also have to say smallpox is fine.
I think as an 8rack thread/community. We should support different variations of the Deck, example U-TRON plays 2 variations one with more lands the other with less, you don't see people of different variations shooting each other down when one puts up results.
Smallpox version puts up results recently, its not my build and i'm still going to say i rather have bridge, but i will probably give smallpox a try again because why not? I appreciate the fact that you are one of the pioneers of 8rack and this thread. So when you shoot people who feature their smallpox build, they are bound to be unhappy or hurt about it because people actually respect you.
I know you don't owe anyone happiness or you probably just can't be bothered if people care about your negativity towards the pox build. But ultimately, this community should support each other when positive things happen for this deck build. Because The Pox build is still 8rack ultimately, however you look at it. Just be happy for the people who had success with it instead of shooting them down. This way the Thread can grow as a whole positively, instead of it being a "I shoot you down and we argue, negative thread."
Cheers.
I'm actually glad you speak up and gave your inputs about this, because i didn't really dare to give my views on boarding in discard spells when the primer and lists didn't include any. This helps in evolving and improving Esper Control.
Have to agree with you on using Inquisitions and thoughtseize. I started playing esper not too long ago just before wafo started 5-0 in MTGO, because i wanted to have a different control deck opposed to my cousins who were playing Jeskai Nahiri and Grixis Control/Delver. I realize esper have a serious problem with early threats, it feels like i'm struggling way too much just by playing the draw go game only. There were times where i win a few games and there were times i lose several games without putting much of a challenge, and my opponent just shrugs "oh well... maybe u just didn't draw what you need."
So i decided to modify and play a more proactive/tapout Esper Control and started winning more games. Because removing the threats from their hand and also looking at their hand is as good as countering the spells.
My advice is to play more enablers, or you may run into problems where you draw no enablers and you have ninjas stuck in your hand. If you are playing spellstutter, you should increase the faerie count, put in 4 zephyr sprites maybe a few quickling or faerie impostor. If you have the budget mistbind clique is a great card if you go faerie heavy. scion of oona can also be included. I always view ninjas as the compliment cards, the enablers should pack a punch to end the game also.
I think 2 familiar's ruse is enough, there are some occasions where you can't counter because you have no creatures on the board. The best ninja is deep hours because its a 2cc ninjutsu 2/2 and a card draw. You may want to cut down on mistblades, maybe 2 is enough. Because these days many decks play creatures with Enter the battlefield effects, which are unfavorable to mistblade. If you play mono blue, Dismember is a great card to remove huge creatures.
I think Higure is too expensive. I decided to cut him off the list years ago because tapping out for him usually cost me the game sometimes. But i guess in late games he is alright. Hope this input helps!
Don't worry.. every ninja deck is always casual. haha
4 Ninja of the deep hours
1 throat slitter
1 skullsnatcher
Enablers
4 faerie miscreant
4 ornithopter
4 signal pest
4 dimir infiltrator
4 inkfathom witch
Spells
1 go for the throat
1 doomblade
1 smother
2 negate
1 mana leak
2 spell pierce
2 spell snare
1 echoing truth
2 vapor snag
4 polluted delta
4 watery grave
4 sunken hollow
2 drowned catacombs
1 flooded strand
4 Island
2 swamp
2 surgical extraction
1 pithing needle
2 thoughtseize
2 grafdigger's cage
1 echoing truth
3 hibernation
3 hurkyl's recall
1 dispel
Signal pest
You can win by beating down with un-blockables, affinity style.
Inkfathom witch
Inkfathom is the finisher. Dealing loads of damage or ending the game with witch and un-blockables. Inkfathom can also turn opponent unblocked attacking creatures into 4/1s. Maybe we can explore more on that. Imagine letting the opponent's creatures go through, and then you play marrow shards and they have no answer for that.
Dimir Infiltrator
Is actually a tutor too. Many times i use dimir to transmute a counterspell, inkfathom, removal or even a skullsnatcher for Graveyard hate etc etc.
I'll update more when i have the time. I think maybe adding space for ghost quarters would help.
I've attached some in game pictures below. My experience with Ninjas on Xmage was quite fun. There was even an elf player who refused to allow me to rollback when i accidently clicked inkfathom's ability a phase too early to end the game, haha got too excited. He was really really salty and sour.
I'll usually just board in ghostly prison. It helps against a lot of aggro decks including infect. Currently have 3 ghostly prisons in my SB.
Hi Trevtek!
3 Court Hussar
3 Pilgrim's Eye
4 Flickerwisp
4 Lone Missionary
4 Wall of Omens
4 Sun Titan
Others
1 Gideon Jura
3 Detention Sphere
3 Supreme Verdict
4 Path to Exile
2 Negate
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Island
7 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
3 Ghost Quarter
4 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Prairie Stream
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Ghostly Prison
1 Pithing Needle
2 Negate
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Stony Silence
2 Nevermore
1 Wrath of God
2 Surgical Extraction
This is my current list after many iterations. Played games at local shops, play testing with cousins and games in xmage.
My deck actually started off as Mono White Emeria, after getting pieces for UW i realize UW version is definitely superior. Just going to list some card choices and why. Cards which i didn't talk about but in the list are probably cards we really need and don't really need explanation.
Court Hussar - Initially i thought Court Hussar wasn't really a fantastic card so i played one, decided to just play 3 eventually. It wins me games, MVP card, filter for my answers, don't even mind flickering it and let it die. I remembered i Court Hussar my way to get negates. The opponent was playing a mill deck, he got frustrated as hell.
Lone Missionary - I've tested Inquisitor Exarch and found a few problems. Its double white, sometimes i encounter hands like 1 ghost quarter 1 island 1 plains, its frustrating when you can't cast it. It also gains me 2 life only, Lone Missionary does a better job at keeping you alive by giving you 4 life. The Inquisitor has its perks like opponent loses 2 life and it have 2 toughness and all, but Emeria plays a long game, just felt we don't really need to race.
Pilgrim's Eye - Many times that additional basic land search helps you get to 6 mana faster for titan or 7 plains for emeria, its a 1/1 flyer, can block inkmoth and since its an artifact, it can block etch champion. Have tested with and without it. I still feel Pilgrim's Eye is important in the 3cc slot.
Crucible of Worlds - Flex slot, just felt its kinda good to get fetch land back or ghost quarter or a destroyed Emeria. Maybe this slot could be Mortar Pod cause i like that card too.
For sideboards.. pretty similar to most, but i have 3 Ghostly Prison, makes matches against aggro much easier especially against decks like infect. Slows down Dredge and explosive elves. After all they need to pay to attack, if they lack the mana, they can't go through. Nevermore and the additional Negates help us a lot against combo decks. Tormod's Crypt Graveyard hate which doesn't hurt my own Graveyard, can be returned by Sun Titan and sac immediately.
I play 24 lands, maybe 3 Emeria is enough or its better to have additional Ghost quarter, i still play 4 Emeria though. Although i wouldn't say my list is fantastic, but i think its more consistent and better compared to my older versions, i actually win more games with this current list. Hope you and everyone else like my share of Information =D.
What you guys think of this card?
*Edit* my bad, i thought it was enchanments, but its auras.
Haha yeah i guess so. But nevermind.. i had a match with him again. The 8Rack did well. 1st game won by the usual discard bridge lotv rack. Was a long tough 1st game. despite lotv ultimate, he was still fighting back but eventually conceded.
2nd game i decided to sub out bridge to try a different strategy, i guess due to poor side board choices i got overrun by eldrazis.
3rd game went like this. turn 1 Thoughtseize his removal, turn 2 pack rat and next few turns just more pack rats after that. Won with pack rats.
I guess sometimes there are really bad days for 8rack and some good days. One thing i realize is how good pack rats really is. At one point i was deciding smallpox or packrats. But packrats have won me quite a number of games. So yeah.. packrats for the win for me.
So when the Eldrazi hype started my 8rack was able to beat my cousin's B\W Eldrazi deck easily. With the usual way it does, discards, bridge, lily and racks.
As you know MTG is an evolving game, so my cousin starts to improve his deck overall to deal with 8rack.
The 2 main things that he brought in to beat me were Endbringer & Oblivion ring.
Endbringer is a card in his main, gave him card advantage and it could kill me over the bridge. Oblivion ring is a card he sideboarded in to make it harder for me, exile my bridge or lily. The card which screws me up the most was Endbringer. If he have an eye of ugin he could search for one more too.
I played 4 games with him and only won 1 with packrats and because he kept a bad hand with no eldrazi lands.
Solutions i can only think of were surgical extraction and pithing needle. Painter's servant is too expensive now and im thinking if there are other alternatives and just sharing with you guys some info. My deck list is very similar to the standard 8rack build you guys use nothing out of the ordinary.
4x liliana
4x Raven's crime
4x thoughtseize
4x inquistition
4x wrench mind
4x the rack
3x shrieking affliction
1x slaughter pact
2x dismember
1x victim of the night
2x pack rat
4x ensnaring bridge
1x ghost quarter
4x mutavault
4x urborg tomb
14x swamp
sideboard:
3x nyxathid
1x ghost quarter
1x pack rat
2x pithing needle
2x damnation
2x darkblast
2x surgical extraction
2x extirpate