The ability Mephidross grants your 2/2 is a triggered ability; you can tell because its first word is 'Whenever'. Rule 112.3c: Triggered abilities [...] usually begin with the word “when,” “whenever,” or “at.” [...]
Triggered abilities work pretty much like spells: they are put on top of the Stack, where they wait until they resolve (or get countered). Rule 603.3: Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack [...]
The thing to remember is: the effects of a triggered ability are not instantaneous; there is a delay, because the ability is waiting, on the Stack.
In the example you submitted, the 2/2 dies during that delay, because it has received 2 damages but hasn't yet received the +1/+1 counter.
How do triggered effects like "When you cycle" and Madness keyword function with the stack? I'll break this down into two questions:
1) Am I correct in thinking that a "When you cycle" trigger will happen after I pay the cycling cost (discarding the card), but before drawing the card from cycling? So if I cycle Shefet Monitor, the "When you cycle" trigger goes on the stack after I paid the cycling cost but before the cycling effect resolves? I assume this is correct considering the parenthesis reminder text on that card.
2) Going from the timing structure above, when do I actually get the chance to cast a card with Madness? Say I have a Ravenous Bloodseeker and activate the ability, discarding Incorrigible Youths. Will the Bloodseeker get the +2/-2 first, and then give me the chance to cast the Youths, or will Madness trigger after paying the ability's cost but before the ability actually resolves? Considering how the triggers work with cycling, I would assume that a Madness cost is paid before the "discard outlet" effect resolves. In other words, as soon as I discard Incorrigible Youths to pay for Ravenous Bloodseeker's ability, Madness triggers and goes on the stack above Bloodseeker's ability (Youths going into exile), and then I either choose to cast the Youths for their Madness cost (putting them on the stack above Bloodseeker's ability), or put the Youths into my graveyard. Is this correct?
This feels like a very fundamental question with regards to Madness but for some reason I can't find a proper answer to this when I search online. I even find this entire question to be very hard to phrase/explain.
Thank you in advance for any help.
EDIT: grammar.
This is all correct.
I don't think there is a specific rule for this situation, but that doesn't matter: it can readily be deducted from the rules about madness, triggered abilities and the stack.
Here's the chronology:
It all starts when you say 'I will activate my Bloodseeker's ability'. Rule 602.2a: The player announces that he or she is activating the ability. [...]
As soon as you pronounced these words, the text ''Ravenous Bloodseeker gets +2/-2 until end of turn'' gets put on top of the stack. Rule 602.2a: [...] That ability is created on the stack as an object that’s not a card. It becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has the text of the ability that created it, and no other characteristics. [...]
Then you need to pay for that ability, so you pay, by discarding the brats toward the grave... Rule 601.2h: The player pays the total cost [...]
...but they end up in exile: Rule 702.34a: [...] Madness means “If a player would discard this card, that player discards it, but exiles it instead of putting it into his or her graveyard” [...]
...and this triggers the Madness ability, which therefore goes ON TOP of Ravenous Bloodseeker's ability, still waiting on the stack.
Thank you for the clarification, I was wondering because it does read "up to two target merfolk" so pretty much spell means Instant or Sorcery, not creature, artifact, aura enchantment, am I understanding this correctly?
No. Spells are all those cards we take from our hands and play**; abilities are stuff written on cards.
Grand Master cannot send Beacon of Tomorrows back to your hand, because its "instead of into your graveyard as it resolves" ' clause will never be satisfied:
Either Beacon resolves, and thus goes to your lib, which contradicts the part saying instead of into your graveyard.
Or Beacon is countered by opponent, which contradicts the part saying as it resolves.
Notice the difference between cards that say 'until end of turn'
and cards that say
'at end of turn', or
'at the beginning of the end step', or
'at the beginning of the next end step':
Rule 512. Ending Phase
[...]
513: End Step
[...]
513.1a [...] abilities [...] printed with the trigger condition “at end of turn” [and] “at the beginning of the end step” [and] “at the beginning of the next end step” [do trigger.]
[...]
514. Cleanup Step
[...] all “until end of turn” and “this turn” effects end. [...]
If your opponents still argue with this ruling, here are the relevant rules you may submit to them:
Rule 604.1: Static abilities do something all the time rather than being activated or triggered. They are written as statements, and they’re simply true.
For example: ''Creatures you control have double strike and lifelink.'', such as True Conviction's ability.
Rule 604.2: Static abilities create continuous effects [...]. These effects are active as long as the permanent with the ability remains on the battlefield [...]
The effect of True Conviction is active only as long as the card is on the field. As soon as you erased the enchantment, the effect ends.
Rule 510.4: If at least one attacking or blocking creature has first strike [...] or double strike [...] as the combat damage step begins, the only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are those with first strike or double strike. After that step, instead of proceeding to the end of combat step, the phase gets a second combat damage step. [...]
Since their creatures do not have Double Strike as the combat damage step begins, no second Combat Damage Step is created: all creatures deals damage in the (sole) Combat Damage Step.
And you are correct also: ERASing the enchantment immediatly removes Double Strike and Lifelink from their creatures.
Combat then proceeds normally. (except, of course, for those creatures that inherently have Double Strike, First Strike, or Lifelink)
More on this...
The rules allows you to do one, and only one, thing at a time. So, either you activate the Feeder, or you activeate the Elder; you can't do both at the same time.
Activating either one also means you have to pay for the activation: sacrifice is the cost.
Thus, you may activate the Elder first, and then sacrifice the Elder as payment.
Next, you may activate the Feeder, but Elder isn't there anymore to be sacrificed: you'd need to sacrifice some other creature.
116.1b A player may activate an activated ability any time he or she has priority.
602.2. To activate an ability is to put it onto the stack and pay its costs,[...]
I assume you meant True Conviction? Exile will remove the creature BEFORE it has time to deal any damage. Double Strike or Lifelink will not make any difference.
506. Combat Phase
507. Beginning of Combat Step
508. Declare Attackers Step
509. Declare Blockers Step
510. Combat Damage Step
511. End of Combat Step
Yes. Even if Anafenza dies at the same time, its replacement effect applies: all opponents' creatures get exiled.
Anafenza: I hear you plan on sending some critters to the grave?
You: Yes, I was just about to do that.
Anafenza: Hold it! dont send send those guys to the grave; rather, send them to exile.
You: Ah? ok then!
See, this little conversation happens BEFORE anything dies, before even Anafenza dies, which is why the effect applies.
Rule 614.1. Some continuous effects are replacement effects. [...] Such effects watch for a particular event that would happen and [...] replace that event with a different event.[...]
Of course, they may destroy it right after you announced 'I activate Treasure Map', before its ability resolves. You'll get to scry, but no transform and no tokens.
So when Myr Retreaver is sacrificed it is(?) possible to use Ironworks to then also sack Trawler before the triggers from sacking Retrever are placed on the stack? Then all triggers go on the stack at once with both creatures in graveyard available as targets?
And this is possible because it's manna ability, where as Viscera Seer would not allow this?
It is possible because of this rule:
601.2g If the total cost includes a mana payment, the player then has a chance to activate mana abilities (see rule 605, “Mana Abilities”). Mana abilities must be activated before costs are paid.
You are casting Chromatic Star; while you are casting it, you must eventually pay for it.
As time nears for payment, the game allows you to generate mana (rule 601.2g); you're allowed to generate TOO MUCH mana, which is why you may activate Ironworks multiple times.
Because it has been destroyed, VS is no longer tapped: its ability resolves but has no effect.
Rule 112.3c: Triggered abilities [...] usually begin with the word “when,” “whenever,” or “at.” [...]
Triggered abilities work pretty much like spells: they are put on top of the Stack, where they wait until they resolve (or get countered).
Rule 603.3: Once an ability has triggered, its controller puts it on the stack [...]
The thing to remember is: the effects of a triggered ability are not instantaneous; there is a delay, because the ability is waiting, on the Stack.
In the example you submitted, the 2/2 dies during that delay, because it has received 2 damages but hasn't yet received the +1/+1 counter.
I don't think there is a specific rule for this situation, but that doesn't matter: it can readily be deducted from the rules about madness, triggered abilities and the stack.
Here's the chronology:
It all starts when you say 'I will activate my Bloodseeker's ability'.
Rule 602.2a: The player announces that he or she is activating the ability. [...]
As soon as you pronounced these words, the text ''Ravenous Bloodseeker gets +2/-2 until end of turn'' gets put on top of the stack.
Rule 602.2a: [...] That ability is created on the stack as an object that’s not a card. It becomes the topmost object on the stack. It has the text of the ability that created it, and no other characteristics. [...]
Then you need to pay for that ability, so you pay, by discarding the brats toward the grave...
Rule 601.2h: The player pays the total cost [...]
...but they end up in exile:
Rule 702.34a: [...] Madness means “If a player would discard this card, that player discards it, but exiles it instead of putting it into his or her graveyard” [...]
...and this triggers the Madness ability, which therefore goes ON TOP of Ravenous Bloodseeker's ability, still waiting on the stack.
**except Lands: lands are not spells.
Either Beacon resolves, and thus goes to your lib, which contradicts the part saying instead of into your graveyard.
Or Beacon is countered by opponent, which contradicts the part saying as it resolves.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/content/commander-format
Some Planeswalkers can indeed be your Commander... but only because it says so on the card!
and cards that say
'at end of turn', or
'at the beginning of the end step', or
'at the beginning of the next end step':
Rule 512. Ending Phase
[...]
513: End Step
[...]
513.1a [...] abilities [...] printed with the trigger condition “at end of turn” [and] “at the beginning of the end step” [and] “at the beginning of the next end step” [do trigger.]
[...]
514. Cleanup Step
[...] all “until end of turn” and “this turn” effects end. [...]
Assuming 'theat' means Menace and 'raise' means Unsummon, then the question becomes:
I use 2 creatures to block an attacking creature.
They unsummon one blocker.
Is my remaining creature still blocking, since the attacker has Menace?
The answer being 'Yes, the remaining creature still blocks the attacker, even with Menace'
because of this rule:
509.1g Each chosen creature [...] becomes a blocking creature. [...] It remains a blocking creature until [...] the combat phase ends [...]
Rule 604.1: Static abilities do something all the time rather than being activated or triggered. They are written as statements, and they’re simply true.
For example: ''Creatures you control have double strike and lifelink.'', such as True Conviction's ability.
Rule 604.2: Static abilities create continuous effects [...]. These effects are active as long as the permanent with the ability remains on the battlefield [...]
The effect of True Conviction is active only as long as the card is on the field. As soon as you erased the enchantment, the effect ends.
Rule 510.4: If at least one attacking or blocking creature has first strike [...] or double strike [...] as the combat damage step begins, the only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are those with first strike or double strike. After that step, instead of proceeding to the end of combat step, the phase gets a second combat damage step. [...]
Since their creatures do not have Double Strike as the combat damage step begins, no second Combat Damage Step is created: all creatures deals damage in the (sole) Combat Damage Step.
Combat then proceeds normally. (except, of course, for those creatures that inherently have Double Strike, First Strike, or Lifelink)
The rules allows you to do one, and only one, thing at a time. So, either you activate the Feeder, or you activeate the Elder; you can't do both at the same time.
Activating either one also means you have to pay for the activation: sacrifice is the cost.
Thus, you may activate the Elder first, and then sacrifice the Elder as payment.
Next, you may activate the Feeder, but Elder isn't there anymore to be sacrificed: you'd need to sacrifice some other creature.
116.1b A player may activate an activated ability any time he or she has priority.
602.2. To activate an ability is to put it onto the stack and pay its costs,[...]
Exile will remove the creature BEFORE it has time to deal any damage. Double Strike or Lifelink will not make any difference.
506. Combat Phase
507. Beginning of Combat Step
508. Declare Attackers Step
509. Declare Blockers Step
510. Combat Damage Step
511. End of Combat Step
Anafenza: I hear you plan on sending some critters to the grave?
You: Yes, I was just about to do that.
Anafenza: Hold it! dont send send those guys to the grave; rather, send them to exile.
You: Ah? ok then!
See, this little conversation happens BEFORE anything dies, before even Anafenza dies, which is why the effect applies.
Rule 614.1. Some continuous effects are replacement effects. [...] Such effects watch for a particular event that would happen and [...] replace that event with a different event.[...]
601.2g If the total cost includes a mana payment, the player then has a chance to activate mana abilities (see rule 605, “Mana Abilities”). Mana abilities must be activated before costs are paid.
You are casting Chromatic Star; while you are casting it, you must eventually pay for it.
As time nears for payment, the game allows you to generate mana (rule 601.2g); you're allowed to generate TOO MUCH mana, which is why you may activate Ironworks multiple times.