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  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 08/07/2019)
    I still don't know why they printed Hoggaak. That was a bad idea from the start since it is a graveyard creature that can be free cast in a format where people can dump an enormous amount of resources into the graveyard for nearly nothing. Did they seriously think reprinting Leyline of the Void would fix anything? Leyline was in the format for ages and we still had dredge and phoenix in the format, regardless. Of course, it doesn't help that Hogaak decks can run Force of Vigor and destroy the leyline for free, basically.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on C19 Another Bust?
    I got the whole set on pre-order before the spoilers were sent out. Right now the initial supply is really low for some reason so prices are climbing to 160-170 a set with people getting orders cancelled. I don't see this set doing better than commander 2018, so if anyone wants to buy the set, please look at the prices on the secondary market for the majority of the cards in those sets now. I'm 100% sure if people just sit and wait, the prices are going to basically collapse on all the commander decks except maybe two cards or something. It's really bad.

    The thing is people can argue all they want on the side of justifying the lack of proper value cards. There has to be value based cards in the set that are a known quantity for a commander product to be successful. Commander 2015 and 2016 were excellent sets and they kept selling to the point of being very scarce late season. Commander 2018 was stuck on the shelves for up to probably 2 months ago. Think about that before stepping into buying a commander 2019 deck at inflated prices because WoTC and distributors screwed up.

    This really is complete crap. Sorry, but WoTC basically carted Gavin out to showcase Seedborn Muse, knowing that people would then assume they would have at least something on par with commander 2017 this season, and then they gave us absolute garbage after pre-orders were already done. No one should trust Wizards of the Coast on anything they say about a product after this point. They've done this way too much and they do know about the secondary market and the value the cards have on a product. Otherwise, they wouldn't have ever made the Modern Masters series and created the concept that "modern" means "premium" as a product.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on C19 Another Bust?
    The expensive cards for EDH are not necessarily expensive because they are competitive cards. They are simply expensive because they go in so many decks. Cards like Eternal Witness are almost universally played, yet no reprint? Talisman of Progress, Rhystic Study, Toxic Deluge, Thought Vessel, or Aura shards?
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on C19 Another Bust?
    Quote from Buffsam89 »
    Quote from Colt47 »
    Quote from Arctanis8 »
    I think everyone should stop and remember what their first experience of EDH was when thinking of who these decks are for. I'm not sure how many started with 2011, but I started there. My first deck was Zedruu (exchange.dec) which won with Storm Herd. I didn't have to worry about getting beatdown by cEDH decks because there was no such thing. Fast forward a few years, and it's easy to see how newer players are denied the experience of playing a deck out of the box and slowly tuning it to their liking. I think the best remedy as someone mentioned earlier would be to communicate what type of playgroup / playstyle you're sitting with and adjust accordingly. Don't play cEDH decks against new players.

    I'm very curious to see how everyone ranks the Commander products. I'm sure as a community we'd be all over the map. It seems like reprints are the thing that people consider the most when deciding whether a product is successful. That's interesting, since I've always felt like the commanders and new cards were the most important (and I know this is just my opinion). Perhaps that's why 2018 is viewed with such a negative lens? I felt that set was 4th best behind 2011, 2013 and 2016.


    The issue is that the game has enough cards as is that people need for commander decks and reprinting cards that are basically replaceable bulk is not helping the commander community. Commander players love new cards, but they also want old cards that are not readily available. Every single blasted reprint in this set felt like it was from some massively opened set in the last two years, when the cards people need are things like Cyclonic Rift, Chromatic Lantern, allied pain lands, Mana Echoes, Sylvan Tutor, Cruel Tutor, etc.

    Basically, they are saving anything with even the smell of a high secondary market price now for premium products. That is what is killing everything else.


    Tutors, specifically the good ones, are never going to find their way into a precon, expecting otherwise is just setting yourself up for disappointment. And why would we get Mana Echoes? Any particular reason to include a tribal card in a set without tribal support? And I already said my piece on C.Rift.

    I mean, this is a premium product. Getting reprinted here isn’t going drive prices down anymore than they would if they were printed in a masters set. Beyond that, people will just buy these and re-sell them way over the MSRP, robbing the target audience of getting their hands on the “needed reprints to compete”, which is just so damn funny that people actually think that.


    They are examples, not hardline includes in the decks, of what constitutes a good reprint.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on C19 Another Bust?
    Quote from Arctanis8 »
    I think everyone should stop and remember what their first experience of EDH was when thinking of who these decks are for. I'm not sure how many started with 2011, but I started there. My first deck was Zedruu (exchange.dec) which won with Storm Herd. I didn't have to worry about getting beatdown by cEDH decks because there was no such thing. Fast forward a few years, and it's easy to see how newer players are denied the experience of playing a deck out of the box and slowly tuning it to their liking. I think the best remedy as someone mentioned earlier would be to communicate what type of playgroup / playstyle you're sitting with and adjust accordingly. Don't play cEDH decks against new players.

    I'm very curious to see how everyone ranks the Commander products. I'm sure as a community we'd be all over the map. It seems like reprints are the thing that people consider the most when deciding whether a product is successful. That's interesting, since I've always felt like the commanders and new cards were the most important (and I know this is just my opinion). Perhaps that's why 2018 is viewed with such a negative lens? I felt that set was 4th best behind 2011, 2013 and 2016.


    The issue is that the game has enough cards as is that people need for commander decks and reprinting cards that are basically replaceable bulk is not helping the commander community. Commander players love new cards, but they also want old cards that are not readily available. Every single blasted reprint in this set felt like it was from some massively opened set in the last two years, when the cards people need are things like Cyclonic Rift, Chromatic Lantern, allied pain lands, Mana Echoes, Sylvan Tutor, Cruel Tutor, etc.

    Basically, they are saving anything with even the smell of a high secondary market price now for premium products. That is what is killing everything else.
    Posted in: New Card Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Before people jump on wrenn and styx, keep in mind the reason the price of the singles are outpacing the boxes is due to skittishness on distributors who are tired of wotc shoveling so much product at them during the summer.

    The situation is like pre 2013 magic singles, which just cant hold. Either the box price goes up or the cards come down from mass opening.

    The box EV is 20 dollars below ultimate masters without the box topper.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 08/07/2019)
    Quote from icehippo »
    Bridge was the obvious choice but not because of any reason listed by wizards or anyone here. It was the obvious choice because wizards always bans the oldest card. Hogaak is brand new, altar is new to modern, and bridge was already around. With the exception of Treasure cruise and dig through time, I can’t think of a single time the format broke because new cards busted previously unbroken things and it was the new cards that got the ax. Wotc doesn’t take action against the newest cards unless it absolutely, unquestionably, without any shadow of doubt have to.


    Well, yeah. The choice would ultimately come down to either banning the brand new card or banning the older one. It makes no sense to ban the new card that just got released into modern as it would hurt the bottom line of the sealed product sales such as with what happened during Kaladesh Era. They even pulled out a new PR figure to take peoples attention away from Maro with Gavin, so you know it was a big deal internally as well.

    The thing is that isn't something to demonize, though. That's literally someone making the right decision so that they still have a job and money on the table. The kind of thing to really grill them on is not banning Faithless looting. Yes, they don't want to kill graveyard decks in modern, but I just have to ask why? I just don't get the reasoning.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    I think the market is pretty strong right now so selling out should work in your favor.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 08/07/2019)
    I agreed with the article that bridge is the most likely card to become problematic mostly due to how weird it really is. It was basically equivalent to an unglued card when it got released because it is an enchantment that you never want on the field and operates on a very odd angle mechanically. Even dredge isn't as weird as that card.

    To put this in perspective, there was a card in unstable that splits the main deck into four parts. I think bridge is weirder than that.

    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 08/07/2019)
    It's important to remember that wizards does not want to be bound to the past and that has been a constant source of drama the past few years. Both set and ban decisions pivot around this desire.

    I know this is not the popular opinion around here, but as much as I loved the idea of an eternal paradise where all my cards are playable, modern and legacy have proven that such a thing is not viable. Even if someone were to buy all the top tier cards now, that desire to not be held to the past will eventually mean a rotation will happen, and that rotation can cost someone hundreds of dollars if they follow the competitive scene.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 08/07/2019)
    Banning Bridge from Below was the right thing to do, but I still think wizards is a bit too disingenuous with their banning decisions. I've talked to a few card game designers and one of the big problems that always comes up is that short term thinking shoppers love high powered cards, so the marketing side always pushes for more broken cards to enter the game. But then there is the part where people actually play the game, and in the long run powerful and broken cards actually degrade the entire experience. This is especially true if the card gets dominant.

    Spoilers came out, people saw Hogaak, and even though the market didn't really react right away to it even I could see it would be broken with bridge from below as a component to some shell. If someone like me can see that, I don't know how a game developer couldn't, so most likely it got printed because of the marketing side and not the design side.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    I've started to realize that spending money chasing the hype cards is a bad plan in general. Watched a seminar on hook, habit, hobby marketing strategies and realized that most of this is psychological manipulation.

    The big problem is the company went full EA on the community post modern masters 2 and decided they can create artificially high prices by setting a high box price, and now they are going into making special mythic edition super limited print run boxes. I'm genuinely afraid of where the game is going.

    They even introduced an arena season pass now to get the hooks in deeper on arena.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Mystic Forge - Eternal Central
    I actually like this card in eldrazi decks. It plays well with devoid and you generally got at least some ramp in those decks to help speed them up.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Mu Yianling, Sky Dancer NGA preview
    Quote from Boreez »
    Quote from Colt47 »
    Wait, someone thinks this is NOT competitive?! This is definitely competitive. You have to think of it as a 4/4 flier on turn 3 kind of like what the current Djinn in standard is like. You can literally just play her turn 3, +2 her, and drop a 4/4 flier on turn 4.


    So which one is it?

    Because a 4/4 flier on turn 3 would be pretty good, but hardly game-breaking (Tempest Djinn being the obvious example, and you can even get what's effectively a 5/4 flier on turn 3 with upside using Spawn of Mayhem).

    But spending your turn 3 to get a 4/4 flier on turn 4? That in itself is not playable, and if that's what you're going to do with her, you're not going to ultimate her.

    The ultimate is tempting, because it can concievably be done on turn 6. But you can't both see this card as an an early flier and a race to the ultimate. It's either or.



    The answer is both. We have to look at the floor and the ceiling with the card and I feel it can replace a djinn turn 3 or 4 depending on what you are doing. Personally, I like her in simic because she benefits a lot from the proliferate mechanic, hence why she has the two loyalty.

    Is it a 15 dollar tier 1 Walker in standard this summer before rotation? No, go put money down on leylines you crazy person. That price is from FOMO and preorder hype. But if someone played this on the field on curve I have to deal with it and it can tick up to four, meaning you are burning at least a fight with fire. Turn 4 kefnet afterwards? Ouch.

    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Lotus Field - Weekly MTG
    It would be interesting to use in Scapeshift decks. This set feels like an overflow set for what they couldn't stuff into Modern Horizons to some degree.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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