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  • posted a message on Holy *****, this game sucks as a "new" player
    FYI, on the rigging thing, it doesn't sound like something that is easy to trigger to the extreme that people like Desolator presented. I had forgotten that one of my friends who is playing looked into it and he tried to get the same kind of situation where if he ran a particular deck and mulligan down to two cards, every single one would just give one land. He just wasn't able to pull off the situation, but there was a pattern to the madness, so to speak. For one, the people who were seeing it were streamers who play for long periods of time: Probably more time than many people actually play the game in one go. The second part of it is that Rank probably has a lot to do with it as well.

    The thing with these systems is that they are supposed to "fudge" things in an imperceptible fashion. If people could tell call of duty was rigging shots to let everyone have a fair shake, people would riot since the game is taking away their freedom, so to speak. If it does it in a way that looks natural, such as ramping up slowly, than no one would likely know the system is there.
    Posted in: MTG Arena
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 01/10/2018)
    Quote from idSurge »
    Yeah I dont buy that Arena is 'fixed' at all. I've had games where I draw land after land after land after land, and I've had games where I curve out. Thats just Magic.

    Its like the people who claim they are forcefully 'held back' in Overwatch by a forced 50/50 win/loss ratio.


    Statistically I do not see how it is possible through multiple cases to mull down to two cards in a deck with 24 lands and only see exactly one land each time. It also happened in a way that was very clearly reproduceable.

    The details are what I'd like to know. Is it a bug? Does it happen only in a certain mode? What are the exact number of games to trigger it? Does it happen only with a certain kind of deck?

    I'll see if the streamers have youtube uploads later. It's still beta as well so it might be a temporary thing to push testing.

    Probably going to say this is a topic for the general forums. Also if people here are playing and not seeing this, than that gives more information sources to work with.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 01/10/2018)
    Quote from idSurge »
    Explain please. Are you playing Arena? The daily system hasnt punished me at all and I've done nothing but play the GW Enchant/Pump deck for 2 days.

    If that was Burn, or Storm, or ...whatever, what difference does it make?


    The game fixes the draws after a certain point. The trouble is that I cant figure out if it is more based on total wins or using the same deck. I've been watching live streams of multiple players and have seen this happen across the board with the more successful ones, which is why I am not playing it. I hate that kind of underhanded call of duty manipulation of the experience even if it does make it more fun for the masses.

    The problem with spotting it is that you have to have played the game via mtgo or done a lot of paper play to catch it.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 01/10/2018)
    Quote from Wraithpk »
    That's probably true in the ladders, but you don't get any rewards for ladder wins. The constructed events reward actually winning, so if you play a fast deck you're not necessarily getting rewarded for it unless it's actually good and you're breaking above even with it.


    Did MTGO also have dailies, though? I know that the MMO like grind to complete dailies is the one reason I do not think that modern would work in Arena outside of the punishment system.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from tronix »
    yeah i remember calling brutality as being busted early on. i just wasnt/arent playing decks that would use it. pretty absurd price for a rare.

    i picked up a hazoret on the cheap, very low risk at that cost. not that i plan on using it any time soon, but if it saves me a couple bucks some time down the line, then ill consider it a success. im waiting to see if chandra tod bottoms out at 5 before picking up a copy.

    oh yeah and i got a copy of t-gearhulk for $1.50. not that it sees a lot of play, but i figured it cant really go lower than that lol.

    i think the only other cards im waiting on from rotation are a few copies of the fast lands, and the scarab god.


    Hazoret? Being worth something? Oh, have I got news for you on that one given the supply on challenger decks. :p

    Walking Ballista, Hazoret the Fervent, and Chandra, Torch of Defiance are all capped by the challenger deck supply. Same with Fatal Push, but the demand on that card is so high that it still can grow even with the extra supply.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 01/10/2018)
    Quote from idSurge »
    Quote from Colt47 »
    Quote from Arkmer »
    I'm sure Modern not being supported on Arena will change eventually regardless of what statement they put out. It's been established that Modern is the most popular format, it seems silly for them to keep it off Arena. It also seems like the easiest way to monetize the format if they put their heads to it. I say give it time, Modern Arena will happen.

    I personally will never move to online magic, I'm sure many feel the same way for different reasons. I personally like sitting face to face with people, it's a big draw for me that goes beyond why the game pulls me in. Until they stop printing paper cards, I'll be a paper player. When that day comes, I will likely not play magic anymore.


    I think modern is in a very difficult position in terms of online support in arena. The thing that butchered standard was not necessarily bad design, but a design that was about a player executing a game plan without concern for what the opponent was doing. Approach of the Second Sun, the negation of the ability to block with Ramunap red, indestructable creatures that were neigh unanswerable, energy having no way to be interacted with, and value creatures such as Phoenix and the scarab god were just brutal.

    To a massive casual audience, is there even a way to play something in modern other than strait aggro without having a ton of cards backlogged? If not would the environment really be different from kaladesh standard?


    I'm playing Arena, and its just bad decks playing against bad decks at this point. Those bombs you mention are just replaced with other bombs, that render the game over well before someone hits 0.

    I'm sure Wizards could hand out new, bad, Modern decks daily just as well as they can hand out bad Standard decks daily. I'm not sure how that would be difficult to do when you have, what, 16,000+ cards possible?

    Hell, just replace many of the cards with their Modern replacements its not like they are not recycling design constantly.

    The issue in my eyes, is good luck putting together a 'real' Modern deck in any time reasonable. My Knightfall deck is at a glance, outside basics, and 7 cards, Rare or Mythic in the main deck. Thats a lot of Wildcards...


    The problem with modern on arena is the same issue that happened in ladder based fighting games in the early to mid 2000s. It wasn't about playing what gave the best chance at winning as much as what could somewhat reliably win and do so as quickly as possible. We're talking about people that if they see a control deck, they will forfeit and go to the next game just because it's a better use of their time for making the daily achievements. I put over a hundred hours into soul calibur IV, and I can tell you I swapped almost entirely to private games because all I could find in the tier games was Mitsurugi, Kilik, and Cervantes. I got so good at killing them because they would spam the same moves and just flop over. However, the reason they were playing them is because they could just spam the ladder fights to boost their rankings out of sheer attrition.

    Basically, imagine playing online and everyone plays storm, burn, and maybe humans. You could build a deck that just annihilates those three match ups, but if it is all you play against after a while it can wear you down. They did make it so that it punishes people who play the same deck too much, but someone could just swap out between three or four decks and reset the system every other day by playing some jank deck. If the developers worked around this with a learning system that permanently punishes people from playing the same group of cards together on a long term basis that would probably just kill modern in Arena outright.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 01/10/2018)
    Quote from Arkmer »
    I'm sure Modern not being supported on Arena will change eventually regardless of what statement they put out. It's been established that Modern is the most popular format, it seems silly for them to keep it off Arena. It also seems like the easiest way to monetize the format if they put their heads to it. I say give it time, Modern Arena will happen.

    I personally will never move to online magic, I'm sure many feel the same way for different reasons. I personally like sitting face to face with people, it's a big draw for me that goes beyond why the game pulls me in. Until they stop printing paper cards, I'll be a paper player. When that day comes, I will likely not play magic anymore.


    I think modern is in a very difficult position in terms of online support in arena. The thing that butchered standard was not necessarily bad design, but a design that was about a player executing a game plan without concern for what the opponent was doing. Approach of the Second Sun, the negation of the ability to block with Ramunap red, indestructable creatures that were neigh unanswerable, energy having no way to be interacted with, and value creatures such as Phoenix and the scarab god were just brutal.

    To a massive casual audience, is there even a way to play something in modern other than strait aggro without having a ton of cards backlogged? If not would the environment really be different from kaladesh standard?
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    All the prices on cards right now from GRN are at their peaks. First rule of knowing when prices are high: Check box EV to see if it is over 100 dollars and has a good spread of value. If it does, than it's going to get cracked for arbitrage until the EV of the box drops below 100 dollars or most of the value gets crammed into only a few cards. Dominaria is a better spot to buy cards from right now because everything worth having from that set is going to be on an uptrend until rotation. Rivals of Ixalan is probably the most dangerous one to wait on because the prices of everything worth playing from that set are going to rise similarly to core 2019.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Holy *****, this game sucks as a "new" player
    I'm probably going to give the game a shot. Given the behavior is predictable on the rigging it's possible to play around it if it happens.
    Posted in: MTG Arena
  • posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    The problem Assassin's Trophy has in standard is Lyra Dawnbringer. The trouble is that answering anything with the card ramps the opponent up a land and lets them put down the finisher that much faster, and the format has better answers to deal with her in specific. Hence I see a lot of people trading out of them while the price is still holding, but I think it's actually dropping already.

    ... yeah Card Kingdom has them on buylist for 13.50. Doom Whisperer has a better ratio on the buylist compared to it's actual selling price.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on Holy *****, this game sucks as a "new" player
    Quote from idSurge »
    If they rig the games like that, its a sure fire way of killing off any potential Arena has in the competitive sense, they would not be that stupid in this age of Twitch streaming, would they?


    Well, it's possible that it's just coincidence that three or four streamers who play mono green get paired against the same three or four decks when they've been winning repeatedly, then get that kind of strange draw behavior from decks that run Lightning strike. However, given this isn't the first time I saw this happen I'm pretty sure that they are doing it. People were pretty livid when they discovered the rigging that happened with Call of Duty.
    Posted in: MTG Arena
  • posted a message on Holy *****, this game sucks as a "new" player
    Found something interesting after watching several games online with different players. It looks like the game is designed so that it rigs the match in favor of the opponent if a player plays a particular deck too much. I know I've mentioned it before here, but I had thought they'd stopped doing the rigging a while back. I don't think the developers or Wizards realizes that most people who play this game a lot can smell standard deviation from deliberate card placement a mile away.

    I've seen this happen the most with players playing green. For some reason, when they face off against izzit, for example, the opposing player always succeeds at getting 4x Lightning Strike in the first few draws and usually has at least one in their hand at the game start. I'm talking like they have the perfect amount of land and just draw into lightning strikes to kill each and every threat that lands.

    I know they want to prevent another situation like Kaladesh block where everyone was playing the same deck, but as long as people are playing on MTGO, in paper, and Cockatrice, there is no way to hide the best deck behind deliberately rigged matches. Losing to bad draws or having to mulligan to 2 cards when you know the ratio of land in the deck should make that statistically impossible is idiotic and shows the game developers are not used to the kind of people that play this game. This kind of rigging is really common in Call of Duty as well as other FPS games to make unskilled players feel better about themselves.
    Posted in: MTG Arena
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 01/10/2018)
    Quote from Ratrek »
    Quote from idSurge »
    Quote from Ratrek »
    So where are all the decks with Rest in Peace hiding these days? Graveyard decks seem to be taking over MTGO right now. Dredge and Bridgevine have been 25% (combined) of the my matchups in the past week. No one seems to be praying on them much at the moment.


    I feel more people are looking to find the 'next broken deck' like h0lydiva has perhaps with Steak-Kin, instead of leaning on the proven RIP deck, UW Control.

    We dont find out till next weekends SCG I guess.


    That's fair. Though with how easy it is to change decks online with everyone using the rental services, I do expect decks to catch on faster online then in paper. I mean Bridgevine in paper is pretty expensive so if someone didn't already have it/could borrow it, I don't know how many new pilots would jump on.

    Quote from idSurge »
    I put Frenzy in a budget (is there any other kind) Goblins deck, and it was pretty funny.


    I had an Affinty opponent roll it as a 1 of and in chatting with him, he really enjoyed it. Though he was unsure if it warrants a 2nd copy yet.


    I wouldn't run more than two in a deck. It's really there to help finish a game that goes longer than expected, so there's little reason to have to draw into it early. If anything, the best thing to do if one did draw it early is probably mull unless the other six cards in hand look reasonable. Watching people play Arena on youtube I swear there are too many people wanting to Yolo on a one lander...
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 01/10/2018)
    Quote from Wraithpk »
    I feel like the people disparaging Frenzy haven't seen it in play before. I vastly underrated the card when I first read it, but the first time I saw it in play I realized I was very wrong about it. Been playing mono-red in Standard on Arena, and the card is stupid busted. It might work in a kinda combo-y build with Steam-Kins or rituals, but it can also just work as a curve topper for an aggro deck like Affinity or Zoo. Those decks lose if their opponent is not dead yet when they run out of gas, but Frenzy keeps a constant stream of gas coming for you. That's what it's doing for the red deck in Standard right now. It's good even without an extra enabler, and it's downright disgusting with an active Steam-kin. Just a random thought I had, it would be pretty gross in some kind of RG Elves build... Heritage Druids and Nettle Sentinels so you get to keep going until you hit a clump of lands.


    I agree to a point. Bomat Courier filled a similar role, but could be killed easily with creature removal or be forced into a chump block. Frenzy comes into play when you need it in an aggro deck and can help out gas opposing strategies. That and unlike Bomat, if the opponent kills it there is no pile of "lost cards". It just unlocks the hand you've been building up.

    There is a bit of a tug of war in the sideboard right now between artifact hate for KCI and Affinity, the boneyard cheaty-face decks, and control / tron. I'm sure that the professional player teams are all rolling dice to figure out what to play, because even if they play the absolute pinnacle deck of a particular archetype, there is a very good chance that a bad meta call will completely tank their chance at winning.

    I mean, I build a mean artifact deck out of affinity pieces that can go out of control really fast, but if someone is landing Ingot Chewer, Stony Silence, and Reclamation Sage against me I'm not going to get anywhere fast.

    Meanwhile, those new Arclight Phoenix decks aren't going to work too well against Rest in Peace and Damping Sphere.
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 01/10/2018)
    Quote from genini2 »
    Quote from BlueTronFTW »
    Quote from Wraithpk »
    Frenzy is 4 CMC do nothing. To break it requires some sort of combo and plenty of mana acceleration so I don't know maybe in some sort of RG deck since artifact based mana is not all that broken in Modern and red doesn't have seething song, rite of flame and most of the good options of those spell types whose overall name is escaping me right now.
    We have plenty of rituals in Modern, and Steam-kin has really nice synergy with Frenzy. Even if it's not part of a combo, it seems like it would be nuts for something like Burn or maybe a Zoo deck. Those decks have issues with running out of gas, and Frenzy is a card that really accelerates you through that. It would have to be a bigger Burn deck to support the 4-drop, maybe a more burn-heavy version of Skred or free-win Red. There has to be a deck for this card, though, its power level is off the charts. Having played with it for like a week now, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets banned in Standard, it's that good.


    Mainstream burn wouldn't run a 4 cmc card. The odds it would be in play turn four are virtually zero. Skred looks more viable, then again skred has scrying sheets already to make sure it is always topdecking something other than a land. I'd be looking at red midrange decks without a card draw engine. Jund is a possibility, as is ponza running this as a one or two-of. Anything else would likely be a brand new deck.

    Hell it took like a year and a half for people to figure out how to use bedlam reveler.


    It's funny you mention Bedlam Reveler. There was a list that 5-0'd last week with Bedlam Reveler using Runaway steam kin and the new punisher jumpstart card and arclight phoenix. Which goes to show that even when a card is known there are always new boundries to break and decks that can come up after the fact.


    Bedlam Reveler seems like Arclight Phoenixs best friend. Firing off manamorphose into Lightning bolt, Rift bolt, and Lava spike, with the ability to reload the hand sounds really good. Thing in the Ice is another really good option.
    Posted in: Modern
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