Magic Market Index for October 12th, 2018
 
Magic Market Index for Sep 28th, 2018
 
Magic Market Index for Sep 21st, 2018
  • posted a message on Help with Replacement Effects: Hostage taker vs Commander / EDH
    bit late to the party but i appreciate the enthusiasm Uhh
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Help with Replacement Effects: Hostage taker vs Commander / EDH
    Ok I understand. If Hostage Taker's ability has two distinct effects, then it would be reasonable that the replacement effect can be applied to one without being applied to the other. And there just so happens to be a ruling for hostage taker which refers to the one-shot effect, so it stands to reason that the other part of the ability is a distinct effect of its own.

    I accept that argument, though it seems illogical that you would change one part of the ability, without changing all of it.

    But that's the rule, replacement 'effect' not replacement ability! Technicalities ey? Uhh

    Thanks for the help Smile
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Help with Replacement Effects: Hostage taker vs Commander / EDH
    Ugh, where's a head-scratch emoji when you need one Shocked

    But seriously. Is Hostage Taker's ability one single, ongoing effect?

    If yes, then it is the effect that puts the commander into the command zone, and "if an effect causes an object to move to a public zone, other parts of that effect can find that object." That's the actual rule!

    400.7h If an effect causes an object to move to a public zone, other parts of that effect can find that object. If the cost of a spell or ability causes an object to move to a public zone, that spell or ability’s effects can find that object.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Help with Replacement Effects: Hostage taker vs Commander / EDH
    Ah ok. then I think the issue here is actually just formatting.

    Printed on cardboard, Hostage taker looks like oblivion ring, with two distinct abilities. look at the oracle text however, and you'll see it is one singular, ongoing ability, same as astral slide, banishing light, and essence flux. You've just got HT in the wrong pile Wink
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Help with Replacement Effects: Hostage taker vs Commander / EDH
    I think i understand this, but tell me if i go wrong ^^

    1) I cast HT, and target enemy commander.
    2) ability resolves in its entirety, Opponent chooses to move it to command zone instead of exile.
    3) The replacement effect basically changes the wording of HT's ability (exactly like it changes Banishing Light) to: "When Hostage Taker enters the battlefield, 'Command Zone' another target creature or artifact until Hostage Taker leaves the battlefield."
    3a) The changes would have to apply to the entire ability(?) and include, "... You may cast that card for as long as it remains 'Command Zoned', and you may spend mana as though it were mana of any type to cast that spell."

    I don't see why it would work any other way, why else would rule 400.7h even exist? If the part that exiled the card was considered seperate to the part that lets you do something with it... this rule would be redundant, it wouldn't make sense.
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Help with Replacement Effects: Hostage taker vs Commander / EDH
    Sorry I must be tired, I simply don't see how that's even relevant :p

    Rules 400.7- regard exceptions to the rule 'An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory...'

    and 400.7h clearly states that if an effect causes an object to move to a public zone (such as the command zone) then all other parts of that effect can also find that object.

    So assuming that Hostage Takers ability can be considered one 'affect' (and it is one ability...) then it can still find the commander for the second half of it's ability, regardless of whether they exiled it or sent to command zone. Exactly the same as Banishing Light.

    So that's the real question mark: can a single ability, be composed of two different 'effects'?
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Help with Replacement Effects: Hostage taker vs Commander / EDH
    So that's this rule:

    611.2b Some continuous effects generated by the resolution of a spell or ability have durations worded "for as long as . . . ." If the "for as long as" duration never starts, or it ends before the moment the effect would first be applied, the effect does nothing. It doesn't start and immediately stop again, and it doesn't last forever.
    Example: Master Thief has the ability "When Master Thief enters the battlefield, gain control of target artifact for as long as you control Master Thief." If you lose control of Master Thief before the ability resolves, it does nothing, because its duration -- as long as you control Master Thief -- was over before the effect began.


    But I don't think this helps... This just explains what happens if the replacement doesnt work. If the second 'Exile' is also replaced, then the effect is applied, and works the way it was intended... Am i making sense? Gaping
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Help with Replacement Effects: Hostage taker vs Commander / EDH
    A friend of mine showed me this:

    400.7h If an effect causes an object to move to a public zone, other parts of that effect can find that object. If the cost of a spell or ability causes an object to move to a public zone, that spell or ability’s effects can find that object.


    I think that means Hostage Taker would indeed be able to cast a commander, but I'm still not sure... thoughts?
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Help with Replacement Effects: Hostage taker vs Commander / EDH
    Trying to wrap my head around the in's and out's of replacement effects, specifically regarding EDH / Commander, and this rule:

    903.9 If a commander would be exiled from anywhere or put into its owner’s hand, graveyard, or library from anywhere, its owner may put it into the command zone instead. This replacement effect may apply more than once to the same event. This is an exception to rule 614.5.


    I know that in the case of cards like Banishing Light, this basically changes the word 'exile' into 'Command Zone', and therefore the victim may either cast their commander again, or destroy the banishing light to get their commander back for free.

    However, Hostage Taker appears more complicated, in that there is a second clause. Not only does she have the Banishing Light effect, but she can also cast that card if it's still in 'Exile'. So the question is, would this replacment effect change all instances of the word Exile, or just the first one when the commander is banished?

    Bearing in mind, it's all one ability.

    If anyone could find a ruling to explain this I'd be super happy (and impressed)

    Thanks,
    ASV
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Casting Aftermath spells with Flashback, with the updated split-card rules
    Hi all,

    Sorry if this has been asked before. I've been reading up on the rules change for split cards but some things are still a bit confusing, specifically as it is now possible to have cards that are both instant and sorcery while in the grave.

    If we look at Farm // Market, the new split card ruling says while not on the stack it is both white and blue, instant and sorcery, and has the mana cost 4WU. So what happens when I give it flashback...

    So far as I know there are only two ways to do this: Snapcaster Mage and Dralnu, Lich Lord.

    If I use one of these on a split card I can cast either half of the card, but as it is both instant and sorcery while in the grave, I can get around the timing restrictions and cast Market at instant speed. Is that correct?

    Further (and this is a downside), if its mana cost in-grave was 4WU, do I have to pay the full 6 mana just to use either half???

    It would make for a severe tax just to cast at instant speed, and my guess is this is why Wizards designed all the Aftermath parts to be the sorcery, since you could just cast it from the grave anyway. This way it minimises the potential for abuse with cards like Torrential Gearhulk, but its basically a death sentence for split cards without aftermath, as it basically doubles the cost of casting with flashback but adds nothing to the effect.

    Am I barking up the wrong tree? Food for thought Uhh
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Can you die to your opening hand?
    Argus Panoptes Thanks for the ruling, i should have checked there first! Smile

    Quote from MadMageQc »
    You're talking about "looping Karn ults", but I'm not sure what you mean in the sense of progressing to this game state, since every restart means you're starting from scratch as to building a pile of cards exiled with Karn; you don't even have Karn on the battlefield at the start in the restarted game, he should have been shuffled and end up in your library or hand, and the permanents you put on the battlefield become new objects too, they don't remember having been exiled by Karn, and if you restart the game again, they're shuffled into their owners' libraries.


    You have to exile all the objects again for the new instance of Karn. If you're interested here's how it happens in testing:

    1. First few turns happen, eventually Narset attacks, and starts churning through the deck finding extra turns and combats until there is nothing left in the deck but one beacon of tomorrows (or Nexus of Fate if the price ever comes down), and on the field is a host of enablers for Narset like Scroll Rack, Jace, The mind sculptor, strionic resonator, Aggravated assault, a crap tonne of mana rocks, and Karn Liberated of course.

    2. We're now in an infinite loop where as long as we reserve 8 mana, we can cast the beacon forever, and activate as many walker abilities as we like, starting with +4 on Karn a hundred times to take the opponents hand, and any unwanted permanents from our own hand. We then switch to Karn's -3 ability and exile everything on the battlefield except the 8 mana we need to cast beacon, , including Narset, and then we ult to restart the game.

    3. So we've restarted the game with every non-aura permanent from the first game, minus karn, but including Narset who thanks to his ability does not suffer from summoning sickness, and is free to attack. With the help of the aforementioned cards we will quickly get through our entire library again, leaving just the Beacon. It is possible even with all this help that we stall out and concede a few turns, but even in that unlikely event we are more likely than ever to have a handful of countermagic especially if we couldnt find any extra turns/combats.

    4. We repeat step 2, and exile every permanent (except the 8 in mana), exiling the opponents new hand, all permanents (including the ones we already stole), and restart the game to go again.

    Effectively we are stealing the opponents deck 7 cards a game, and even if they mulligan to 0 we only have to let them draw a card or two to technically achieve this.

    Again this is all very hypothetical, I love the idea of toying with their very existence but in reality it would take 15 minutes of soitaire just to set this kind of BS up. The opponent will be staring at dozens of ways you 'could' kill them, and you'd have to be a total arse to do this to anyone. Smile
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on Can you die to your opening hand?
    Purely a Hypothetical question, but if you restart the game following a Karn Liberated ultimate with less than 7 cards in your library, do you lose before play has even begun?

    There are a couple of ways you could get there, and I realise that in any case if we have the power to do this then we could most certainly win the game by just about any other means... but purely looking for lols, is it possible?

    For example: when playtesting my Narset, Enlightened Master EDH, I realised I can essentially loop Karn Ults until I've taken every permanent from both players hands, libraries and battlefields. So, if at the end of all that, they don't have 7 or more non permanents left to shuffle around... they lose on opening hand?

    Uhh
    Posted in: Magic Rulings
  • posted a message on What can I do with a Grand Abolisher on the Field?
    Quote from VidarThor »

    Are you in a cassual format with no restrictions?


    EDH, Commander, but there are those to whom this is not a casual format (namely the t2 combo decks Shocked )

    I agree prevention is better than the cure, I just wondered if there were any ways out if it goes that far. So I guess the only ones really worth playing are those that would get played anyway, which can only be the lands Uhh

    Deem Worthy is interesting, being essentially an uncounterable Shock that draws a card. But tapping 4 mana is probably all I've got, I'd have to rely on someone else at the table to take it from there.

    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on What can I do with a Grand Abolisher on the Field?
    Nice Finds!

    Also on the lands front, cabal pit and barbarian ring are feasible removal for the abolisher or whatever follows. weird i've never heard of these, theyre the same cycle as Cephalid Coliseum

    Edit: Even the coliseum could work if say for example, you're looking at Laboratory Maniac or doomsday combo
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on What can I do with a Grand Abolisher on the Field?
    Grand Abolisher, along with cards like Silence and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir are a pain in the butt.

    They allow combo players to go off without any interference, and in EDH it is generally accepted that anyone who does this is a massive stain on the fabric of human decency.

    I jest.

    Nevertheless, it's gotten me thinking about ways you can still interact once you're in that state, but searching the Gatherer is proving harder than I thought.

    Look at the wording on Faerie Macabre (the only one i could think of off the top of my head) there's nothing here I can use to help find others like it, i'd have to search everything that contains ":" and either "discard" or "Exile".

    So to my question, can anyone think of other cards that allow for some interaction with Abolisher on board? I'm basically looking for anything I can do at instant speed, but isn't a spell, or an ability of an enchantment, creature or artifact. I guess the obvious pickup would be lands, but are any lands likely to stop a combo like lab maniac, kikijiki, reveilark, or any number of infinite mana combos? Maybe Rishadan Port?

    Thanks Smile
    Posted in: Magic General
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.