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  • posted a message on [Primer] Monkey Grow (RUG/Temur Delver)
    I'm not sure I'll be playing any four cmc cards in the side Uhh I really do think we have the tools in our main 60 to beat the midrange matchups already. It's not exactly a slaughter. Just don't let LoTV resolve haha.

    I'll probably get on Tarfire at some point Smile but with the initial list, I am concerned about having enough blue cards to give my opponent a consistent Shoaling, and that's probably why It'll stay out until I find out more/less blue cards can be afforded. Definitely on the "TODO list" for the deck!
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Monkey Grow (RUG/Temur Delver)
    OOOOOOH good call on the Blood Moon with basics. Although, with 16 land and 3 colors, I think playing more than 2 island is pretty dangerous. Thoughts? I should dig into some lists for reference and see how crazy people get with it...

    EDIT: I'm thinking something like the following. Would love to discuss!



    4 copies of Bauble is definitely right. That card is essential to the deck, in my opinion. My issue with adopting Snap over Bauble is that it's they're completely different cards that do different things for the deck. Like, one smooths draws for literally nothing and grows Goyf, helps cast Mandrills, and helps flip Delver. On the flip side we have a 2/1 value boi that recasts the best spell in my yard for 3 or 4 mana at instant speed, often ending the game with bolts or giving us protection with extra Stubborn Denials.

    So, I'd be comfy taking out other creatures for Snap, but that's about it. And Since I gotta max on Delver, Goyf, and Mandrills; there just seems to be no place for this card, right? Snapcaster is very very very good, don't get me wrong. But I don't think it's for this deck in particular.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Monkey Grow (RUG/Temur Delver)
    Quote from LeoTzu »
    Yeah, the enthusiasm in this thread has really gotten to me. Definitely going to sleeve up my Italian Disrupting Shoals.

    There's just nothing quite like casting a "Branco Smembrante" on someone.


    Shoal is VERY good right now. Can't recommend it enough. I think if you sleeve delver you gotta sleeve this card.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Monkey Grow (RUG/Temur Delver)
    Okay, so max out Hooting Mandrills, check! That's -2 Snapcaster Mage for that.

    I'm not sold on the Tarfire/Flameslash idea yet. I think I'm propbably pushing my non-blue cards enough. With the 4 Vapor Snag and 4 Lightning Bolt, I think it'll be good enough to start testing.

    Next, we gotta deal with the loss of the blue 2cmc wizard, and I dig the chart a course Idea. So -2 Sleight of Hand, and +2 Chart a Course.

    AAAAAAND adopting the kind land base suggestion from @Mikefon with a few personal tweaks...

    Looks like we come so something like this! https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1793560#paper
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Monkey Grow (RUG/Temur Delver)
    Quote from Mikefon »
    I'd rather play a tarfire over a bauble. It grows goyf and flips delver and it's a removal.
    Overall id cut 2 baubles and izzet for tarfire and 2 mandrills. Then I'd like to have an echoing truth over a snag, but that's me. Another 2 drop I love is chart a course.


    So I guess the question between tarfire and bauble is that do they fill the same role? They both grow Goyf, but one creates redundancy by getting us to our important cards faster and filling the grave for Mandrills, and the other provides reach/removal while being a spell for Delver. Pros and cons to both, but I think on 16 lands, I'd keep the bauble out of necessity. But maybe more reform could make room for Tarfire Confused Confused decisions decisions.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Monkey Grow (RUG/Temur Delver)
    Quote from ObnixilisNate »

    Drop sized charm and a vapor snag. Add 2 more mandrills
    Our best sorcerys are sleight of hand and traverse.
    Your shock lands can interchange depending on your sideboard requirements
    3 islands
    1 forest
    2 steam vents 1 breeding pool (if your side board has a lot of red)
    1 stomping ground
    1 wooded foothills
    4 Tarns
    4 mistys

    You can drop baubles as needed to make room.


    Looks like I"m at 4 snag already Smile so I got it covered! I'm okay with dropping charms, but I need more 2cmc blue things to replace them. Having Shoal on 1cmc is the most important, but I do want to have it somewhat consistently on 2cmc as well. Hence the 2 snaps and 2 charms.

    I'd like to avoid adopting monkeys without cutting other creatures Frown and that's because the current distribution of spells vs non spells at the moment is poised for flipping delver. The Baubles are important for giant goyfs, easy mandrills, and better percentage points on flipping delver. So I'd like to avoid cutting those.

    (EDIT: Maybe cutting a bauble for a third Monkeys wouldn't be so bad? Keeps the spell vs non-spell distribution the same. Cuts down on redundancy, but maybe that's alright. Thoughts on this?)

    Maybe snap just isn't right. It's absent in my UG for a reason. Maybe it doesn't belong in here as well... ugh. Tough to say.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Monkey Grow (RUG/Temur Delver)
    So...

    If I were to go RUG, I'd try and adapt my current list into the RUG shell. It will probably looks something like this for the main 60. Thoughts?

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1793560#paper

    concerns of mine:
    - 2 Mandrills for stubborn Denial
    - Sorcery count
    - Lands. Idk what the hell to do haha.

    Thoughts as a rough draft?
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Monkey Grow (RUG/Temur Delver)
    Quote from CatParty »
    Has there ever been a discussion of Unsubstantiate in this thread? I don't think it's worth including atm, but if Esper Control takes off, or Control just makes a meta comeback in general, it's neat piece of tech that lets us "counter," or "bounce" really, Supreme Verdict, while also having the modal option of bouncing a creature. I've seen people run Remand in our deck for the tempo, and Unsubstantiate is similar, lacks card draw, but also has a second useful ability.


    I mean... it has the same issue as remand. It doesn't solve the problem. It's not terrible, but not great either. Would be worth some playtesting though to confirm Smile
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Monkey Grow (RUG/Temur Delver)
    Quote from LeoTzu »
    I'm glad this thread is still so active. I've been on GDS, UR Moon, and Phoenix lately, but I think I'm going to sleeve RUG up for old time's sake. Nothing feels as quite as good as jamming a Hooting Mandrills on turn 2!


    YESSSS do it LeoTzu! This deck is sweet right now. Even tho I'm on UG and not RUG, I love how easy a T2 Mandrills with Stubborn Denial just shuts out half the format. We also need more players because we're all not exactly centralized on lists Cool once we figure out how to tackle the other decks, we can all get a better understanding of what's good and what's not.

    Eventually I'll even make the shift over to RUG, but I want to explore this weird pile of cards before moving away from it.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Monkey Grow (RUG/Temur Delver)
    Quote from MikePemulis »
    For those of you who've been playing this deck a long time: how did you do back in the old days against Jeskai control? How have your control matchups changed over the years? Seems like Supreme Verdict is just a huge problem for us, and although I generally feel good about the control matchups, I'm not sure I've ever beaten a resolved, non-desperation Teferi.


    I haven't been playing while. So I guess you can take my input with a grain of salt Smile the reason why Supreme Verdict is a tough card for us is because we can't interact with it. We can't say 'no'. Which seems kinda like a "DUH GRINDOR EVERYONE KNOWS THAT" type of thing, but it really puts a point on how we engineer our deck.

    Delver decks specifically lean on ways to interact with the opponents spells on the stack, rather than what's on the board. You may say, "Teferi is tough to beat", but isn't everything that has impact on the board that we can't bounce/bolt tough to beat? Liliana of the Veil, Teferi, Hero of Dominaria, Thoughtknot Seer, Primeval Titan, Arcbound Ravager, Search for Azcanta are all cards that fall under this category if they slip through our slew of countermagic.

    It's a fundamental issue of our deck, if we can't counter it or bolt it before it does something, our deck suddenly sucks and falls behind.

    In situations like this, I'm finding that the key is to play in a way that puts YOU or THEM dead 8 ways to Sunday. That means forgoing lots of reactive play styles against these things. How do I most often beat Control? I beat the crap outta them with tall goyfs and monkeys and flying scientists. Same with affinity, same with Amulet, same with Eldrazi. Strikingly, our linear plan is almost better than theirs. Then our reactive plan can kick in when needed. Especially if you're on Shoals.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Monkey Grow (RUG/Temur Delver)
    @CatParty I like where your head is at! But isn't Young Pyromancer just better than the new walker? Sure it dies easier than this thing, but at least it can turn sideways for damage itself. I think Saheeli, Sublime Artificer will probably see play in conjunction with the little PZ if at all.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Monkey Grow (RUG/Temur Delver)
    The grave hate against this deck is a real concern. My threats SUCK with a RIP on board lol. Most people say after playing against my deck that they wouldn't board a card like that in, but I have played people who do bring it in and it gets me more than I'd like to admit.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Monkey Grow (RUG/Temur Delver)
    Okay Smile so your suggestion would be to only play a few if I were to play any at all?
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Monkey Grow (RUG/Temur Delver)
    Quote from ObnixilisNate »
    Traverse is actually a great card. But it's basically only worth playing to fetch up a bomb. We ran it in the sideboard with bedlam revelers but he's ANOTHER creature that requires the graveyard and the hate is just too real.


    Hmm... I see. I'd be using it to create more redundancy in my creatures. Just to have them more. It would be transforming the deck into something that's like this...


    to...



    Would it be worth testing? Or nah?
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] Monkey Grow (RUG/Temur Delver)
    Anyone play some FNM/MTGO this weekend that had decent results? I wanted to get out and play so badly but couldn't because of school projects Frown I need my magic fix!!!

    EDIT: (so I'm not posting a billion comments) Has anyone tried out Traverse the Ulvenwald? Definitely thinking about coming back and testing this guy out.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
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