Now for vials and CMCs I agree on the numbers you mentioned traditionally on monowhite. I should have mentioned that the numbers I was talking about were for BW with no Eldrazi. I have tried the E&T version and I've got all the cards for it, but I am not convinced by it. You want less to sac your lands to screw your opponent, you slow yourself down with clunky draws off your available mana colors and your vial is worse. When the deck rolls, it generally trumps over other decks easily. But a single misstep or stumble, and you're likely to lose to your own deck, especially against fast decks that don't forgive.
Another vial problem is that if your curve contains 20-22 3drops and you can't get a vial or it gets destroyed before it started shining, then you are more likely to lose that game as you won't profitable play the mana denial plan, you don't filter/draw cards and you play too little lands to keep up with your opponents plays.
This here encapsulates my feelings for E&T to a tee. I love the deck, but if the draws are slightly against you it's probably too late unless the opponent punts hard-
While it might gimp yourself in a more reactive U/W spirit deck, running Eidolon of Rhetoric effectively gives you the chance to flicker Spell Queller in response to opponents cast and effectively blanking their "free-cast" while exiling the new spell. Eidolon of Rhetoric + Spell Queller + any flicker is basically a soft lock on it's own unless people are packing Krosan Grip or something. All parts are easily protected and assembled with vial + flash shenanigans with counterspell/ Mausoleum Wanderer backup
I've been on the B/W Eldrazi hype train for the past month, but I always feel like I either win handily (3 wins 1 draw/loss) or have to fight my own deck more than my opponents due to awkward hands, at times messy mana and no way to generate card advantage (and going 1-3). Any of the other taxes lists that are less swingy you guys would recommend for someone with a larger wallet than wit?
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I've been on the B/W Eldrazi hype train for the past month, but I always feel like I either win handily (3 wins 1 draw/loss) or have to fight my own deck more than my opponents due to awkward hands, at times messy mana and no way to generate card advantage (and going 1-3). Any of the other taxes lists that are less swingy you guys would recommend for someone with a larger wallet than wit?
Just got back from a modern fnm playing Eldrazi D&T for the first time. Had my share of beginners luck and went 3-0-1 and shared first place at 10 points.
My list was the really, REALLY stock list of 29 mainboard creatures, 8 spells and 23 lands from some weeks ago with a few (ineffectual) sideboard changes
I faced 2 melira company decks (which felt hopeless whenever I had an average hand), a spicy, if somewhat fragile (and really unlucky) allies brew and Pascal Maynard's bant eldrazi list.
This is not really accurate as my memory is ***** and it's only the general flow of the games.
Melira company#1 1-1
Game 1
Face a player I know usually plays affinity (and have lost to turn 3 so many times it's not even fun) so I start the day a bit tilted. He's on the play and I keep what i reckon was a decent hand with 3 mana, Arbiter, Vial, Sculler and TKS. He plays a green fetch land and passes which puzzled me even more. I drew a path off the top, put out a land and throw down vial. Pretty happy with that start. He untaps, cracks the fetch, put's a land into play and cast Scavenging Ooze then pass, making me even more confused. I promptly forget vial trigger and curse myself. Draw another path, Drop a GQ, play arbiter and pass. Opponent plays a Spike feeder and I belatedly realize what he plays. It goes back and forth a bit before I start looping Stranglers and Scullers with Displacer and 2 Temples + 4 other lands in play, ripping his game plan apart before drawing smasher and ending the game.
Game 2
Mull down to 5, see bad hand and refuse to mull to 4, scry nonland to bottom, play swamp and pass. Draw Caves, pain 1, play Thalia and pass. brick on land t3, opponent paths talia end step and proceeds to CoCo off birds and overrun me. I had sided in two RiPs and a Relic for 2 Vials and 1 Sculler since i know he had (and played last game) a number of Pridemages.
Game 3
Drawn out game. Both keep 6 cards, fill the board quickly. I rip his game plan with scullers, he chords for infinite life in response to removal. I keep topdecking perfect answers and we go to time before he draws another chord, a pridemage or an Abrupt decay (to deal with resolved RiP)
Allies 2-1
Game 1
Keep a sweet hand with 3 lands (temple, cave, shrine), vial, Arbiter, sculler and strangler on the play. Turn 1 vial go, he plays a Freeblade and passes. Drop land into arbiter (without forgetting vial this time) and passes. He plays a land, Elf ally dork into 1 Expedition Envoy, attacks for 3. Drop land, vial in sculler, take his CoCo, cast strangler, process dork pass. He plays land, envoy surged Bushwhacker and swings for 11. I get to play 2 paths next turn with more strangler action and swing for lethal with an "end of opponents turn" vialed in flickerwisp tapping down their last blocker and alpha strike.
Game 2
Mull to a slow/bad hand. Opponent chains grower-allies into more allies into coco into battlesingers into death by turn 5. Misused GQ by using it on my own turn, let him pay 2 and crack 2 fetches + get land from GQ
Game 3
Opponent keeps a good hand, if not for mine being plain better. t1 vial, t2 arbiter stranding the fetch he did not lead with on board, t3 vial sculler into strangler, t4 sculler into vial displacer into flicker strangler kill blocker (2 temples + cave + shrine). Opponent wiffs a coco (with 33 creatures total in deck) and just can't get back into game. Close it out with alpha strike.
Melira company#2 2-1
Game 1
Much of the same as the other melira match but with other mistakes and bad combat math presenting me a kill from the air 2 turns later than necessary and a misplay from opponent saving me from losing.
Game 2
Got overrun, mulled to 5, bad hand, he played everything perfectly and left me no mistakes to get lucky off.
Game 3
Same as with the allies game. I had too much disruption and he drew really badly. Finished with smasher + arbiter + flickerwisp beats.
Bant company 2-1
Game 1
Get filthy draws, rip his hand, apply early damage by arbiter and 2x path for his reshapers. 3x TKS and smasher finishes
Game 2
Same as last, until he draws answers and I brick with 3 drawn lands and t6 topdeck vial in hand. Get demolished by swarm of reshapers + smasher + tks.¨
Game 3
Even opening. Even game, both at 10 or something, both have smashers. I get to path his smasher, he wiffs a crucial Ancient Stirrings and only get a land, i get to mop up the rest of his board with flickerwisp + strangler + displacer fun. Second match won off an "impossible" wiff. Felt good, yet bad (but as opponent said, luck is a crucial part of skill)
I'm impressed at the unfair things this deck can do sometimes, but I'm not sure I feel the sideboard. I had no relevant cards to side in outside of relic + 2x RiP vs melira. I really felt like i wanted a card to reset boardstates as we don't always deal well with them once it's happened.
Going to modern tournament on Sunday and could really use some help with new sideboard (and how you would do board vs. matchups). I feel like grafdiggers cage would be nice with all these melira decks, but hallowed moonlight could also be good as a "1/W (+1 maybe): Draw card, pay (3) to exile target creature until end of turn) with displacer/flickerwisp while also being good vs. company, titan breach, goryo's decks etc etc. Not sure how much i should fear burn considering how little mana they deem "keepable" and how bad t1 vial, t2 thalia, t3 sculler/tks/arbiter and GQ can **** them over. Plenty of hate for affinity as well.
Anyone have a primer written for W/B/C taxes vs. other t1-2 decks?
This here encapsulates my feelings for E&T to a tee. I love the deck, but if the draws are slightly against you it's probably too late unless the opponent punts hard-
While it might gimp yourself in a more reactive U/W spirit deck, running Eidolon of Rhetoric effectively gives you the chance to flicker Spell Queller in response to opponents cast and effectively blanking their "free-cast" while exiling the new spell. Eidolon of Rhetoric + Spell Queller + any flicker is basically a soft lock on it's own unless people are packing Krosan Grip or something. All parts are easily protected and assembled with vial + flash shenanigans with counterspell/ Mausoleum Wanderer backup
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My list was the really, REALLY stock list of 29 mainboard creatures, 8 spells and 23 lands from some weeks ago with a few (ineffectual) sideboard changes
3 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Wasteland Strangler
4 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Reality Smasher
Spells - 8
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Godless Shrine
3 Plains
2 Shambling Vent
1 Swamp
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Rest in Peace
2 Spellskite
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Lingering Souls
I faced 2 melira company decks (which felt hopeless whenever I had an average hand), a spicy, if somewhat fragile (and really unlucky) allies brew and Pascal Maynard's bant eldrazi list.
This is not really accurate as my memory is ***** and it's only the general flow of the games.
Melira company#1 1-1
Game 1
Face a player I know usually plays affinity (and have lost to turn 3 so many times it's not even fun) so I start the day a bit tilted. He's on the play and I keep what i reckon was a decent hand with 3 mana, Arbiter, Vial, Sculler and TKS. He plays a green fetch land and passes which puzzled me even more. I drew a path off the top, put out a land and throw down vial. Pretty happy with that start. He untaps, cracks the fetch, put's a land into play and cast Scavenging Ooze then pass, making me even more confused. I promptly forget vial trigger and curse myself. Draw another path, Drop a GQ, play arbiter and pass. Opponent plays a Spike feeder and I belatedly realize what he plays. It goes back and forth a bit before I start looping Stranglers and Scullers with Displacer and 2 Temples + 4 other lands in play, ripping his game plan apart before drawing smasher and ending the game.
Game 2
Mull down to 5, see bad hand and refuse to mull to 4, scry nonland to bottom, play swamp and pass. Draw Caves, pain 1, play Thalia and pass. brick on land t3, opponent paths talia end step and proceeds to CoCo off birds and overrun me. I had sided in two RiPs and a Relic for 2 Vials and 1 Sculler since i know he had (and played last game) a number of Pridemages.
Game 3
Drawn out game. Both keep 6 cards, fill the board quickly. I rip his game plan with scullers, he chords for infinite life in response to removal. I keep topdecking perfect answers and we go to time before he draws another chord, a pridemage or an Abrupt decay (to deal with resolved RiP)
Allies 2-1
Game 1
Keep a sweet hand with 3 lands (temple, cave, shrine), vial, Arbiter, sculler and strangler on the play. Turn 1 vial go, he plays a Freeblade and passes. Drop land into arbiter (without forgetting vial this time) and passes. He plays a land, Elf ally dork into 1 Expedition Envoy, attacks for 3. Drop land, vial in sculler, take his CoCo, cast strangler, process dork pass. He plays land, envoy surged Bushwhacker and swings for 11. I get to play 2 paths next turn with more strangler action and swing for lethal with an "end of opponents turn" vialed in flickerwisp tapping down their last blocker and alpha strike.
Game 2
Mull to a slow/bad hand. Opponent chains grower-allies into more allies into coco into battlesingers into death by turn 5. Misused GQ by using it on my own turn, let him pay 2 and crack 2 fetches + get land from GQ
Game 3
Opponent keeps a good hand, if not for mine being plain better. t1 vial, t2 arbiter stranding the fetch he did not lead with on board, t3 vial sculler into strangler, t4 sculler into vial displacer into flicker strangler kill blocker (2 temples + cave + shrine). Opponent wiffs a coco (with 33 creatures total in deck) and just can't get back into game. Close it out with alpha strike.
Melira company#2 2-1
Game 1
Much of the same as the other melira match but with other mistakes and bad combat math presenting me a kill from the air 2 turns later than necessary and a misplay from opponent saving me from losing.
Game 2
Got overrun, mulled to 5, bad hand, he played everything perfectly and left me no mistakes to get lucky off.
Game 3
Same as with the allies game. I had too much disruption and he drew really badly. Finished with smasher + arbiter + flickerwisp beats.
Bant company 2-1
Game 1
Get filthy draws, rip his hand, apply early damage by arbiter and 2x path for his reshapers. 3x TKS and smasher finishes
Game 2
Same as last, until he draws answers and I brick with 3 drawn lands and t6 topdeck vial in hand. Get demolished by swarm of reshapers + smasher + tks.¨
Game 3
Even opening. Even game, both at 10 or something, both have smashers. I get to path his smasher, he wiffs a crucial Ancient Stirrings and only get a land, i get to mop up the rest of his board with flickerwisp + strangler + displacer fun. Second match won off an "impossible" wiff. Felt good, yet bad (but as opponent said, luck is a crucial part of skill)
I'm impressed at the unfair things this deck can do sometimes, but I'm not sure I feel the sideboard. I had no relevant cards to side in outside of relic + 2x RiP vs melira. I really felt like i wanted a card to reset boardstates as we don't always deal well with them once it's happened.
Going to modern tournament on Sunday and could really use some help with new sideboard (and how you would do board vs. matchups). I feel like grafdiggers cage would be nice with all these melira decks, but hallowed moonlight could also be good as a "1/W (+1 maybe): Draw card, pay (3) to exile target creature until end of turn) with displacer/flickerwisp while also being good vs. company, titan breach, goryo's decks etc etc. Not sure how much i should fear burn considering how little mana they deem "keepable" and how bad t1 vial, t2 thalia, t3 sculler/tks/arbiter and GQ can **** them over. Plenty of hate for affinity as well.
Anyone have a primer written for W/B/C taxes vs. other t1-2 decks?
Lands (22)
1 Forest
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Stirring Wildwood
2 Tectonic Edge
4 Temple Garden
Creatures (30)
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Kitchen Finks
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Wilt-Leaf Liege
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Mark of Asylum
3 Rest in Peace
2 Spellskite
3 Stony Silence
1 Sunlance
2 Worship
1 Wrath of God
Lands (20)
2 Forest
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
2 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Urza’s Mine
4 Urza’s Power Plant
4 Urza’s Tower
Creatures (8)
2 Spellskite
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 World Breaker
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Ancient Stirrings
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
4 Expedition Map
4 Karn Liberated
3 Oblivion Stone
3 Pyroclasm
4 Sylvan Scrying
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Nature’s Claim
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Spellskite
1 Thragtusk
2 Torpor Orb
1 Vandalblast
1 Wurmcoil Engine
Lands (22)
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Pendelhaven
1 Swamp
2 Twilight Mire
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Glistener Elf
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Phyrexian Crusader
4 Plague Stinger
Other spells (22)
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Become Immense
2 Groundswell
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Might of Old Krosa
3 Rancor
4 Vines of Vastwood
1 Disfigure
1 Illness in the Ranks
2 Nature’s Claim
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pulse of Murasa
2 Spellskite
2 Thoughtseize
2 Viridian Corrupter
Lands (24)
1 Arid Mesa
1 Cascade Bluffs
3 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Snapcaster Mage
Other spells (31)
4 Ancestral Vision
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Cryptic Command
1 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lightning Helix
2 Mana Leak
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
4 Path to Exile
2 Remand
3 Serum Visions
2 Spell Snare
1 Celestial Purge
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Dispel
2 Negate
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Wear // Tear
Lands (25)
1 Cascade Bluffs
4 Celestial Colonnade
1 Desolate Lighthouse
4 Flooded Strand
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Mystic Gate
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Watery Grave
1 Dragonlord Ojutai
4 Snapcaster Mage
Other spells (30)
2 Ajani Vengeant
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Cryptic Command
1 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
2 Lingering Souls
1 Mystical Teachings
2 Negate
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
1 Sphinx’s Revelation
4 Spreading Seas
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Celestial Purge
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Disdainful Stroke
2 Dispel
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Invasive Surgery
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Kataki, War’s Wage
1 Stony Silence
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Wear // Tear
Lands (23)
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Drowned Catacomb
2 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
4 Jace, Vryn’s Prodigy
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Thing in the Ice
Other spells (22)
1 Dreadbore
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Kolaghan’s Command
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
1 Painful Truths
4 Serum Visions
3 Terminate
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Damnation
2 Dispel
1 Dreadbore
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Negate
1 Painful Truths
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
Lands (20)
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Island
1 Mountain
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
4 Jace, Vryn’s Prodigy
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Other spells (24)
4 Faithless Looting
4 Goryo’s Vengeance
4 Izzet Charm
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
2 Thoughtseize
4 Through the Breach
2 Dispel
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Molten Rain
2 Painful Truths
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Shatterstorm
2 Vandalblast
Lands (24)
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Darkslick Shores
2 Island
1 Mountain
3 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Swamp
1 Watery Grave
1 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Vendilion Clique
Other spells (25)
3 Ancestral Vision
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Kolaghan’s Command
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
1 Seal of Fire
4 Serum Visions
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Terminate
1 Crumble to Dust
2 Dispel
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Negate
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Thoughtseize