Makes sense The Wanderer is a planeswalker version of the wandering samurai, I do wonder if she is the Emperor.
The Royal Court: The emperor has returned at last. May she lead us into a new age of-
Wanderer: *involuntarily planeswalks away*
Royal Court: -never mind.
I just want to point out that the flavor and effect of this card do not line up in my eyes.
Most tales of forced relocations involve exploitation of marginalized or stigmatized groups while this effect seems to represent the common folks joining together to force oppressors down.
while this kind of effect might line up with any number of past historical events from revolutiona to acts of reparations (both of which are in flavor for white), this effect does not seem like the best avenue to convey the historical event you singled out.
To echo was everyone else is saying, though, Wizards backed away from a card talking about the gosh-darn Crusades. Following along the same creative line as a series of cards that were entirely disavowed from the entirety of the game seems like an odd choice, is what I’m saying.
Creating ultra chase artifact tokens doesn't concern me. Maybe my tune will change if they started creating such cards in nontokens. We have different treasure tokens to use.
Yes, indeed.
If it had been a metallic sliver token for silversmith that was being printed only in another country and for the highest of prices, you would be the picture of calm.
I mostly kid, though. For all I know, even that may not bother you.
Their existence means you can buy singles easier and cheaper, but they require a large market to sell the product for a profit to.
The large amounts of product sold that way benefits everyone in the game, from WotC down to the player.
The entire point of selling booster packs is to fuel a market that consumes them.
Speculation into buying product to keep it is a long term option. Almost all boxes increase in value if they go out of print and if they have the potential for big hits, their "unknown" value average is better than opening them.
If nobody would keep boxes around product would vanish after its out of print. As long as there are people interested in sealed product, thats a thing that neither hurts or benefits a player, that is just interested in a bunch of singles anyway.
Some people even never open any boxes, as they quite literally collect the sealed boxes (like video game collectors, comic books and all of that, you want them "sealed" and not use them, as the real value is in keeping them as pristine as possible).
Old school cards are limited and basically art-pieces. From a time where keeping them in folders and secure was not very common, very pristine cards even up to Urza Block are quite rare (the foils are especially difficult to store in good condition).
The entire market strives of nostalgia of a few selected cards, the vast majority of cards is not worth anything, even old.
Entire sets of cards are better collectables, special things that have some kind of noteworthy history, like Summer Magic are great things for collectors to go for, as lots of players have no idea what that is in the first place (so the market of collectors vs players is very distinct, little crossover with specific playable cards, but thats just a extremely tiny part of collectables in the game).
Secret Lairs and the like are a two-edged sword.
On one side they are indeed collectable due to the nature of going out of print right away, but on the other side, they are also the kind of product WotC is "flooding" into the market, and little of them carry nostalgia value.
The people that actually collect Secret Lairs are overall few, its mainly for playable cards, and people that play the cards in some Commander deck.
If a product line is discontinued its the best for a collector, as you can actually get a "full" set and complete the collection.
As WotC is still printing more and more Secret Lairs, its simply "too much" for a collector with basically no real value of nostalgia, its just "like them ? fine", but any product you can just outright order and buy without randomness or chasing them, is a bad collectable item, if anything its the Fear of missing out that drives the Secret Lair market, which is a terrible approach long term and very anti-consumer (as it prays on weak people that fall for these manipulations).
But if there is a demand for "sealed" Secret Lair, plenty of people will have them. Singles market of Secret Lair is already extremely flooded simply because players actually put them in decks, so the value of a Secret Lair is very much in how playable the cards are (which is also true for sealed product in general if rarity is not the critical factor).
To put Secret Lair as something nice in a storage to look at, the black boxes are pretty bad for that (compared to sealed boxes with art on them).
The "box topper" cards in premium product started as a very collectable item, as it was rare and difficult to get a complete set of all box toppers.
Now its actually very easy to get a full set of a collectors set, so the aspect to actually collect them is pretty low, especially long term as people have a much lower "bond" to sets now cause of the flooding of product (i couldnt tell you of my head what the last 2 years of sets are, or how much Secret Lairs they made, or premium cards they give out ... 15+ years ago that was very different, as premium cards where overall more well known and fewer to make them more chase able and collectable).
Judge promos for example where a pretty big market.
Now with the "owl" variations, the judge promo demand is extremely low, as there are too many.
Lots of what WotC is doing now is artificially pumping up the quantity of product, but it takes away the actual collectability of the product as its just too much disconnected product.
Okay, that's an interesting perspective.
While I do believe that long-term investors spending tons of money on magic in one form or another is important for the current health of the game (as it exists right now), Rudy reports the belief in his video (in the OP) that while things are uncertain and while most boxes go up or at the very least maintain their value, the smart money may be with secret lairs precisely because there is such a flood of them. With so many lairs being produced (to the point where it would cost over $100,000/year to get the maximum number of copies of each, by his count), there is an increased chance that some lairs are going to slip through the cracks and go under the radar as even low-level investors need to start making active choices, meaning that any given Secret lair has the chance to increase in value in a big way.
My question is the following:
As long as box-flippers continue their current habits, would casual collectors suffer any sort of negative effects if long-term investors switched from boxes to lairs (assuming those long-term investors spend about the same amount)? I expect that the answer would be no and that Rudy's video is thus largely of little to no consequence to most players but I am open to arguments to the contrary.
user_938036 does a good job of explaining my skepticism.
1. When you talk about Speculators buying hundreds of boxes in the way Rudy was in this episode, it is normally discussed in the context of people buying onto boxes to hold onto them for several years before reselling them for a profit. As those hundreds of boxes sold to these people are adding ZERO new singles into circulation while the set is new, it would stand to reason that the direct and immediate impact of those unopened boxes not existing on singles prices is (at least initially) relatively small, if not non-existent.
2. I do want to differentiate these people from short-term box flippers, however, who buy pallets of cases in bulk and who try to make their money back through single sales rather than letting products mature. These are the people who tear open collector box after collector box and who floods the market with foils, showcase frames, borderless rares, and more to keep costs down. In my eyes, These are the investors who keep standard affordable. If you look at the video, though, Rudy wasn't talking too much about these people (almost everything was about long-term investment, not flipping) and collector boxes were specifically identified as a possible exception to boxes not holding value any more so I'm not really worried about these guys going away.
3. A separate concern I've heard that may have some credence is that people buying tons and tons of boxes to invest in them may contribute to WotC's bottom line and contribute meaningfully to the good quarters that they and papa Hasbro have been reporting. If MTG is making less money, it may receive less resources, have fewer releases, and shrink accordingly. Rudy identifies in his video however that a good investment for MTG still exists, however, and that it just happens to be secret lairs now... so I'm not too concerned about this, either.
My personal conclusions: Long-term investors are better suited by buying secret lairs than standard boxes at this time but I honestly kind of doubt that will harm either singles prices or Wizards profits at this time. It is ultimately the behavior of short-term collector box crackers that determines the affordability of standard (as far as investor influence goes). Rudy's statements about investing in secret lairs did not seem specifically aimed at this group, however, so I'm not sure where all of the doom and gloom comes in.
I'm not a financial guru or a business major, though. I'm sure that there is a lot I am missing or misconstruing. Can someone clarify?
…I am sorry if this sounds ignorant but can someone give me the short version about how the recent changes are bad for non-investing consumers?
It sounds like buying standard-legal sets in vast bulk (outside of collector boosters) is no longer worthwhile… in part because Amazon is offering comparable prices in the short-term… which sounds good.
It sounds like investors are now focusing on secret lairs, meaning that they are focusing their efforts on Products that are print to demand rather than gouging products like Commander’s Arsenal… which sounds good.
It sounds like the lack of value in standard legal sets comes in part from the fact that valuable cards are more likely than ever to be reprinted within the following 5-10 years… which sounds good.
Did I miss the apocalyptic part at some point? Does the lack of investors cashing in investments 5-10 years later and providing delayed influxes of singles mean that prices are likely to skyrocket (in spite of frequent reprints)? Is it expected that a lack of people like Rudy buying 1,000+ boxes will increase single prices?
They've already said that the Water Gun Balloon Game preview image was incorrect as it was meant to have an Acorn stamp which is their new way of printing "Silver-border" cards.
I have a problem with the acorn in general as it is much harder to spot than a full silver border. The real reason they are doing it is they can't do both silver and black border on the same sheet and this was just the easier way of doing it. I'm sure there will be many a player going "oops" when it comes to putting an acorn card in one of their decks.
It feels like they wanted to make an Un-set and a Battlebond set and since they couldn't do both they decided to mix them together for no reason.
If someone can look me in in the eye with a straight face and say "I thought the card that cared whether creatures in the art are smiling or not was eternal legal", I would be fairly impressed.
While the physical stamps for eternal vs. acorn are phsically noticeable, the idea between splitting them up is that the mechanics between them should leave very little ambiguity regarding which one a card is. I expect that if you covered up the stamps and just read the card effects, most of us would be able to accurately guess whether they are acorn or eternal.
That card requires my friend outside the game to do something? Acorn
That card requires me to balance on one foot? Acorn
That card requires me to avoid the use of pronouns? Acorn
That card cares about how long flavor text is? Acorn
That card creates an entirely new game zone and doesn't follow the game rules? Acorn
I mean, the entire concept here is that any of the cards that could be eternal are eternal.
Why isn't Kaya a good example? It's a very recent card, so it's a completely legit example that makes it a precedent of the game. Maybe it's just a new tool they could use very rarely in the right context.
EDIT: Now that I think of, there are actually more examples and precedents. Ashiok, Nightmare Muse ultimate cast any cards from opponents exile and not just the ones he exiles. Oblivion Sower let you play any land an opponent got already in exile. Coax from the Blind Eternities let you tutor in hand any Eldrazi was already in exile for any reason. Same with Karn, the Great Creator with artifacts. So yeah, it's DEFINITELY a possibility that Gitaxias could also cast cards from exile, it's a thing already break it many times lol.
While there are many cards that can let you cast from exile, power level is another consideration here.
While Karen could technically use Gonti’s heart to go infinite, that seems to be a vanishingly rare occurrence.
If kaya’s ability was not the ultimate of a planeswalker, however, casting Alrund’s Epiphany each and every turn would be a bit absurd.
I don’t think that a card that lets you repeatedly cast extra turn cards on a loop without jumping through a hoop of similar size (and mana cost is simply not a hoop with a piper effect in standard) is likely to see play, even if it relies on your opponent’s cards. Even in the most innocent circumstances, the ability to spam a single kill/draw spell in your opponent’s graveyard ad nauseum does not make for good play lines.
I apologize if I’m missing something but what’s the point of standard in Arena, now?
I would normally say that it’s there so that you technically have a space where you can play with the cards as written but it sounds like most online tournaments moving forward are going to be in alchemy rather than standard and you lose all access to the original card text of cards as soon as they rotate out of standard.
Between being featured in tournaments, having more cards, and generally being designed to cultivate a wide and vibrant array of archetypes… I guess that I’m not really seeing the point of standard other than being an obligatory nod to paper magic.
Both Stromkirk Condemned and Stromkirk Occultist look quite obviously under the influence of Emrakul indeed. It's unfortunate that they were pushd off to the Commander product.
Both of those are reprints from last time we were in innistrad with Emrakul, not new cards.
He gathers data true
And if you don’t like what they shill
Then the product’s not for you!
heh!
The Royal Court: The emperor has returned at last. May she lead us into a new age of-
Wanderer: *involuntarily planeswalks away*
Royal Court: -never mind.
Most tales of forced relocations involve exploitation of marginalized or stigmatized groups while this effect seems to represent the common folks joining together to force oppressors down.
while this kind of effect might line up with any number of past historical events from revolutiona to acts of reparations (both of which are in flavor for white), this effect does not seem like the best avenue to convey the historical event you singled out.
To echo was everyone else is saying, though, Wizards backed away from a card talking about the gosh-darn Crusades. Following along the same creative line as a series of cards that were entirely disavowed from the entirety of the game seems like an odd choice, is what I’m saying.
Just my own 2 cents.
Yes, indeed.
If it had been a metallic sliver token for silversmith that was being printed only in another country and for the highest of prices, you would be the picture of calm.
I mostly kid, though. For all I know, even that may not bother you.
Okay, that's an interesting perspective.
While I do believe that long-term investors spending tons of money on magic in one form or another is important for the current health of the game (as it exists right now), Rudy reports the belief in his video (in the OP) that while things are uncertain and while most boxes go up or at the very least maintain their value, the smart money may be with secret lairs precisely because there is such a flood of them. With so many lairs being produced (to the point where it would cost over $100,000/year to get the maximum number of copies of each, by his count), there is an increased chance that some lairs are going to slip through the cracks and go under the radar as even low-level investors need to start making active choices, meaning that any given Secret lair has the chance to increase in value in a big way.
My question is the following:
As long as box-flippers continue their current habits, would casual collectors suffer any sort of negative effects if long-term investors switched from boxes to lairs (assuming those long-term investors spend about the same amount)? I expect that the answer would be no and that Rudy's video is thus largely of little to no consequence to most players but I am open to arguments to the contrary.
1. When you talk about Speculators buying hundreds of boxes in the way Rudy was in this episode, it is normally discussed in the context of people buying onto boxes to hold onto them for several years before reselling them for a profit. As those hundreds of boxes sold to these people are adding ZERO new singles into circulation while the set is new, it would stand to reason that the direct and immediate impact of those unopened boxes not existing on singles prices is (at least initially) relatively small, if not non-existent.
2. I do want to differentiate these people from short-term box flippers, however, who buy pallets of cases in bulk and who try to make their money back through single sales rather than letting products mature. These are the people who tear open collector box after collector box and who floods the market with foils, showcase frames, borderless rares, and more to keep costs down. In my eyes, These are the investors who keep standard affordable. If you look at the video, though, Rudy wasn't talking too much about these people (almost everything was about long-term investment, not flipping) and collector boxes were specifically identified as a possible exception to boxes not holding value any more so I'm not really worried about these guys going away.
3. A separate concern I've heard that may have some credence is that people buying tons and tons of boxes to invest in them may contribute to WotC's bottom line and contribute meaningfully to the good quarters that they and papa Hasbro have been reporting. If MTG is making less money, it may receive less resources, have fewer releases, and shrink accordingly. Rudy identifies in his video however that a good investment for MTG still exists, however, and that it just happens to be secret lairs now... so I'm not too concerned about this, either.
My personal conclusions: Long-term investors are better suited by buying secret lairs than standard boxes at this time but I honestly kind of doubt that will harm either singles prices or Wizards profits at this time. It is ultimately the behavior of short-term collector box crackers that determines the affordability of standard (as far as investor influence goes). Rudy's statements about investing in secret lairs did not seem specifically aimed at this group, however, so I'm not sure where all of the doom and gloom comes in.
I'm not a financial guru or a business major, though. I'm sure that there is a lot I am missing or misconstruing. Can someone clarify?
It sounds like buying standard-legal sets in vast bulk (outside of collector boosters) is no longer worthwhile… in part because Amazon is offering comparable prices in the short-term… which sounds good.
It sounds like investors are now focusing on secret lairs, meaning that they are focusing their efforts on Products that are print to demand rather than gouging products like Commander’s Arsenal… which sounds good.
It sounds like the lack of value in standard legal sets comes in part from the fact that valuable cards are more likely than ever to be reprinted within the following 5-10 years… which sounds good.
Did I miss the apocalyptic part at some point? Does the lack of investors cashing in investments 5-10 years later and providing delayed influxes of singles mean that prices are likely to skyrocket (in spite of frequent reprints)? Is it expected that a lack of people like Rudy buying 1,000+ boxes will increase single prices?
What is up?
If someone can look me in in the eye with a straight face and say "I thought the card that cared whether creatures in the art are smiling or not was eternal legal", I would be fairly impressed.
While the physical stamps for eternal vs. acorn are phsically noticeable, the idea between splitting them up is that the mechanics between them should leave very little ambiguity regarding which one a card is. I expect that if you covered up the stamps and just read the card effects, most of us would be able to accurately guess whether they are acorn or eternal.
That card requires my friend outside the game to do something? Acorn
That card requires me to balance on one foot? Acorn
That card requires me to avoid the use of pronouns? Acorn
That card cares about how long flavor text is? Acorn
That card creates an entirely new game zone and doesn't follow the game rules? Acorn
I mean, the entire concept here is that any of the cards that could be eternal are eternal.
While there are many cards that can let you cast from exile, power level is another consideration here.
While Karen could technically use Gonti’s heart to go infinite, that seems to be a vanishingly rare occurrence.
If kaya’s ability was not the ultimate of a planeswalker, however, casting Alrund’s Epiphany each and every turn would be a bit absurd.
I don’t think that a card that lets you repeatedly cast extra turn cards on a loop without jumping through a hoop of similar size (and mana cost is simply not a hoop with a piper effect in standard) is likely to see play, even if it relies on your opponent’s cards. Even in the most innocent circumstances, the ability to spam a single kill/draw spell in your opponent’s graveyard ad nauseum does not make for good play lines.
I would normally say that it’s there so that you technically have a space where you can play with the cards as written but it sounds like most online tournaments moving forward are going to be in alchemy rather than standard and you lose all access to the original card text of cards as soon as they rotate out of standard.
Between being featured in tournaments, having more cards, and generally being designed to cultivate a wide and vibrant array of archetypes… I guess that I’m not really seeing the point of standard other than being an obligatory nod to paper magic.
Digital only Kiora already has the guy on edge. We don’t need the streets running red with blood tonight.
Both of those are reprints from last time we were in innistrad with Emrakul, not new cards.
Note that seek also means "chosen at random". If you seek a basic land, you don't choose which basic land you get.