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[quote from="AlukSky »" url="/forums/magic-fundamentals/custom-card-creation/612013-ub-evergreen-keyword-suggestions?comment=1332"]Finally the fact that they have publicly said Absorb 1 is too strong to actually print on enough cards for a set mechanic does not bode well for any damage prevention mechanics, even if it functions significantly differently.
They really said that? For absorb? Ignoring the ability to reduce noncombat damage (which Blazing's proposed mechanic does not do), absorb X is strictly worse than Bushido X... which I feel is regarded as a relatively weak ability.
As far as how it works, I imagine that it would function a lot like Temple Altisaur. In reality, it would probably read something like this:
"If a source would deal combat damage to this creature, prevent all but 1 of that damage"
With that said...
1) The ability doesn't scale up well. A 4/4 with this proposed ability can block all day long (likely taking out the attacker) and is very hard to block in a profitable manner.
2) While it reminds me a bit of regeneration, damage prevention hasn't really been a part of Black's wheelhouse for quite a while by now.
One possible mechanic just occurred to me that might work for Dimir.
Relentless (If this card would be put into your graveyard from anywhere, you may reveal it and put it on top of your library instead).
Filling a mechanical midpoint between reanimation and self-bounce/graveyard into library, this seems like a mechanic that could do a lot of work for a lot of purposes.
1. It can be thrown onto smaller blockers like Tenacious Dead or Reassembling Skeleton with less risk of infinite combos.
2. It can be thrown onto premium midrange uncommons to make limited bombs that eat counterspells and removal and keep chugging.
3. This card can actually be pretty impressive when thrown onto curve-topping mythics or expensive cycles.
4. This card could reasonably be given out through auras or combat tricks.
5. Good synergy with self-mill that effectively lets you stack your deck.
6. Acts as a proper replacement for the bygone "regeneration" mechanic.
7. It is distinct from both Indestructible and Hexproof as it is hard to give common and uncommon cards permanent indestructible and giving small bodies permanent hexproof leads to the nightmare of Boggles. Relentless is also the only defensive ability that "dodges" -X/-X effects (though it is still stopped by exile effects and pacifism -style auras)
Example Cards:
Dreamscape Owl
Creature- Bird Illusion
Flying, Relentless
When Dreamscape Owl enters the battlefield, Scry 2.
1/1
Corpse Hauler
Creature- Zombie
Relentless
1/1
Dauntless Assassin
Creature- Human Assassin
Relentless
When Dauntless Assassin enters the battlefield, you may destroy target tapped creature.
2/2
Lord of Winds
Creature- Djinn
Flying, Relentless
4/2
Keeper of the Empty Grave
Creature- Demon
Relentless
When Keeper of the Empty Grave enters the battlefield, exile target player's graveyard. For every creature card exiled in this way, create a 2/2 black zombie creature token.
4/4
Utterdark Scion
Creature- Kraken
Flash
Relentless
Creatures with power 5 or less do not untap during their owner's untap steps.
6/7
False End
Instant
Target creature gains hexproof and relentless until end of turn.
The Downside:
While quite a few evergreen keywords have usage limitations (Hexproof broken on low CMC, little to no permanent indestructible on Commons and Uncommons, no giving out Prowess through auras or combat tricks), this particular mechanic has the risk of causing locks (at least in limited formats) if it is combined with certain effects (a Daring Apprentice or Spiketail Hatchling with Relentless, for example, might cause problems). Decent designers should be able to skirt this problem, however.
Assuming that you aren't just ignoring Modern Masters sets, I imagine that what you are asking for is a set where all of the cards are legal in every format except Standard or Brawl (barring format bans). This would mean some combination of...
1. As normal for modern masters, decent reprints could help lower the price of key cards in modern.
2. The set could reprint older cards that aren't already in the modern cardpool, adding them to the cardpool in the process.
3. We could get unique new cards in modern (like we get in Conspiracy or Battleborn) that might be too disruptive to ever enter standard play.
And, for bonus points...
4. Normal price for boosters, normal number of boosters per box, and decent print run (as with battleborn or conspiracy).
Honestly, I support most of that. With that said, I think that pushing powerful old cards into the modern cardpool is pretty dangerous. While there are dozens of cards out there that could expand underplayed archetypes without making too big of a stink, any mistakes would tick a lot of people off and be difficult to reverse. Plus, it may risk making modern less distinct from other eternal formats.
Guys, I think that wizards found the magic ratio for these sets.
For each color (hopefully plus artifacts/multi), there is one great mythic reprint, three rare reprints that will at least recoup the price of a pack, and 1 uncommon + 1 common reprint that can partially recoup a pack (I will bet that we are due for some red and black reprints tomorrow).
So... how does this set seem to have no junk rares? The new cards! Most players are notoriously bad at judging how useful a novel card is (and will find a place for subpar cards as long as they are shiny and new). Our "junk rares" are the friend or foe cycle (or at least most of them), the rakdos wrath, most of the assist rares, and some partners.
As long as the final value is unclear and people have yet to experiment, though, finding that Gorn/Virtus in your pack won't be a "feel bad" moment.
1. The wurm "turns on" Rhonas to let him attack.
2. Rhonas kills the wurm on its own (and draws you 6 cards) due to deathtouch
3. Rhonas survives the process due to indestructible.
With these types of reprints and the bonus of getting both partners in a pack including FOILS, they are definately pushing for high sales
Actually, I'm looking at thinngrgs from the opposite direction.
When you join a two-headed giant draft with battlebond, you are getting less product than you are normally getting (4 packs between 2 players instead of 3 for yourself for draft... or 6 packs between 2 players vs 6 for yourself for sealed).
In spite of this, wizards still wants every player to feel that they are getting something out of the experience. Between bomb rares, double rares, premium uncommons, and (supposedly) less draft chaff, each player (theoretically) ends up with similar levels of value despite getting less product.
Of course, since the price of packs hasn't increased to account for this value, this would imply cracking packs may actually have a decent chance of getting you value (at least compared with recent sets).
...not that I'd really believe that until I see the statistics to prove it.
Well, confirmation that Buy-a-box promos will be unique cards like for Dominaria moving forward means I don't have to worry about playing Magic again any time soon, so that's a plus.
That's an odd "final straw" to break your back right there, though everyone's entitled to their breaking point (not that I like this promo thing either)
Wishing you well on your travels. Hope to see you again some day if wizards figures out how to make marketing gimmicks player-friendly... or decides to let the game speak for itself.
It looks as though it could create hilarious interactions with Kresh where killing off most creatures powers up all of your Kreshes and killing any single Kresh doubles the power of all remaining Kreshes.
As far as vulnerable muldrotha, I am packing spellskite. Glen elendra archmage, sylvan safekeeper, greaves, boots, bear umbra, spider umbra, false demise, and fool's demise. It eats up a big chunk of cards but I REALLY want that commander-reliant toolbox gameplay.
Siren Stormtamer also works, and can even prevent [most] Edict Spells.
By not focusing on a self-mill toolbox approach over a combo-focused approach
Are those two strategies mutually exclusive? Because that's not how I've been seeing it.. My Deck is basically a Self-Mill Combo variation.
And if the Commander being vulnerable is an issue, has anyone considered running Spider Umbra?
I just wish that I had redundancy for LED, because if it gets Exiled, I don't know if I could still win.. :S
Personally, I CAN see some tension between straight-up combo and self-mill
While self-mill greatly increases card availability after muldrotha comes out (turn 4-6), early self-mill can accidentally cost you a vampiric tutor or intuition that you can't cast from your graveyard.
While cards like mnemonic wall or eternal witness could theoretically grab those tutors from your graveyard, it would do so far too slowly. An optimized combo deck would be using these tutors to assemble pieces so that you can flat-out win the game the turn after Muldrotha resolves (turn 6 at the latest)
With that said, I do intend to run combo cards and high-synergy cards in my deck. I just hope that my games are less... identical than an average combo deck.
As far as vulnerable muldrotha, I am packing spellskite. Glen elendra archmage, sylvan safekeeper, greaves, boots, bear umbra, spider umbra, false demise, and fool's demise. It eats up a big chunk of cards but I REALLY want that commander-reliant toolbox gameplay.
I would also consider using riftsweeper if the thought of an exiled LED keeps you up at night. It's your one chance for getting it back and artificer's intuition or trinket mags can search it back out.
So you are deliberately weakening your selection, in an effort to increase your dependency on a CMC 6 Commander without any inherit protections...
I really don't get this post.
Not the part about you being factually correct, of course. Playing with mill and leaving out demonic tutor will definitely lower the number of wins that my build would get. I don't think that anyone here is going to deny that.
To my knowledge, however, this thread is not specifically focused on cEDH and there is no rule in this thread requiring that all cards recommended be optimal choices. It's also hard to say that my post is trying to trick others into building subpar decks as my original post A) mentions that the use of tutors gets reliable early wins and B) specifies that I am an outlier who enjoys variance in play.
By not focusing on a self-mill toolbox approach over a combo-focused approach, I am focused on pursuing a different gameplay experience that I believe can still bring enjoyment (even if it comes with a lower win rate). If your intended messages was something along the lines of "I don't believe that your deck will work out as you expect as your commander paints a giant target on its head" or "there are probably better cards that you could pick for the approach you are pursuing" there are ways to communicate these messages that without implying idiocy or incompetence on my end.
In spite of dragons being largely red, we have never had a good mono red dragon legend for EDH.
Seriously, all we have had so far is a vaishino, ryusei (who won't trigger if returning to the command zone), and The Bladewing family
They really said that? For absorb? Ignoring the ability to reduce noncombat damage (which Blazing's proposed mechanic does not do), absorb X is strictly worse than Bushido X... which I feel is regarded as a relatively weak ability.
As far as how it works, I imagine that it would function a lot like Temple Altisaur. In reality, it would probably read something like this:
"If a source would deal combat damage to this creature, prevent all but 1 of that damage"
With that said...
1) The ability doesn't scale up well. A 4/4 with this proposed ability can block all day long (likely taking out the attacker) and is very hard to block in a profitable manner.
2) While it reminds me a bit of regeneration, damage prevention hasn't really been a part of Black's wheelhouse for quite a while by now.
Relentless (If this card would be put into your graveyard from anywhere, you may reveal it and put it on top of your library instead).
Filling a mechanical midpoint between reanimation and self-bounce/graveyard into library, this seems like a mechanic that could do a lot of work for a lot of purposes.
1. It can be thrown onto smaller blockers like Tenacious Dead or Reassembling Skeleton with less risk of infinite combos.
2. It can be thrown onto premium midrange uncommons to make limited bombs that eat counterspells and removal and keep chugging.
3. This card can actually be pretty impressive when thrown onto curve-topping mythics or expensive cycles.
4. This card could reasonably be given out through auras or combat tricks.
5. Good synergy with self-mill that effectively lets you stack your deck.
6. Acts as a proper replacement for the bygone "regeneration" mechanic.
7. It is distinct from both Indestructible and Hexproof as it is hard to give common and uncommon cards permanent indestructible and giving small bodies permanent hexproof leads to the nightmare of Boggles. Relentless is also the only defensive ability that "dodges" -X/-X effects (though it is still stopped by exile effects and pacifism -style auras)
Example Cards:
Dreamscape Owl
Creature- Bird Illusion
Flying, Relentless
When Dreamscape Owl enters the battlefield, Scry 2.
1/1
Corpse Hauler
Creature- Zombie
Relentless
1/1
Dauntless Assassin
Creature- Human Assassin
Relentless
When Dauntless Assassin enters the battlefield, you may destroy target tapped creature.
2/2
Lord of Winds
Creature- Djinn
Flying, Relentless
4/2
Keeper of the Empty Grave
Creature- Demon
Relentless
When Keeper of the Empty Grave enters the battlefield, exile target player's graveyard. For every creature card exiled in this way, create a 2/2 black zombie creature token.
4/4
Utterdark Scion
Creature- Kraken
Flash
Relentless
Creatures with power 5 or less do not untap during their owner's untap steps.
6/7
False End
Instant
Target creature gains hexproof and relentless until end of turn.
Grave Resolve
Enachntment- Aura
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature gets +1/+1 and gains relentless.
The Downside:
While quite a few evergreen keywords have usage limitations (Hexproof broken on low CMC, little to no permanent indestructible on Commons and Uncommons, no giving out Prowess through auras or combat tricks), this particular mechanic has the risk of causing locks (at least in limited formats) if it is combined with certain effects (a Daring Apprentice or Spiketail Hatchling with Relentless, for example, might cause problems). Decent designers should be able to skirt this problem, however.
1. As normal for modern masters, decent reprints could help lower the price of key cards in modern.
2. The set could reprint older cards that aren't already in the modern cardpool, adding them to the cardpool in the process.
3. We could get unique new cards in modern (like we get in Conspiracy or Battleborn) that might be too disruptive to ever enter standard play.
And, for bonus points...
4. Normal price for boosters, normal number of boosters per box, and decent print run (as with battleborn or conspiracy).
Honestly, I support most of that. With that said, I think that pushing powerful old cards into the modern cardpool is pretty dangerous. While there are dozens of cards out there that could expand underplayed archetypes without making too big of a stink, any mistakes would tick a lot of people off and be difficult to reverse. Plus, it may risk making modern less distinct from other eternal formats.
For each color (hopefully plus artifacts/multi), there is one great mythic reprint, three rare reprints that will at least recoup the price of a pack, and 1 uncommon + 1 common reprint that can partially recoup a pack (I will bet that we are due for some red and black reprints tomorrow).
So... how does this set seem to have no junk rares? The new cards! Most players are notoriously bad at judging how useful a novel card is (and will find a place for subpar cards as long as they are shiny and new). Our "junk rares" are the friend or foe cycle (or at least most of them), the rakdos wrath, most of the assist rares, and some partners.
As long as the final value is unclear and people have yet to experiment, though, finding that Gorn/Virtus in your pack won't be a "feel bad" moment.
You are all missing the important part.
Wizards just produced a decent red mythic! Even if it's a WUBRG legend, my mind is still blown.
1. The wurm "turns on" Rhonas to let him attack.
2. Rhonas kills the wurm on its own (and draws you 6 cards) due to deathtouch
3. Rhonas survives the process due to indestructible.
The lower price point stops wizards from printing $80+ cards but this is clearly the best venue they have for $10-50 reprints?
Actually, I'm looking at thinngrgs from the opposite direction.
When you join a two-headed giant draft with battlebond, you are getting less product than you are normally getting (4 packs between 2 players instead of 3 for yourself for draft... or 6 packs between 2 players vs 6 for yourself for sealed).
In spite of this, wizards still wants every player to feel that they are getting something out of the experience. Between bomb rares, double rares, premium uncommons, and (supposedly) less draft chaff, each player (theoretically) ends up with similar levels of value despite getting less product.
Of course, since the price of packs hasn't increased to account for this value, this would imply cracking packs may actually have a decent chance of getting you value (at least compared with recent sets).
...not that I'd really believe that until I see the statistics to prove it.
That's an odd "final straw" to break your back right there, though everyone's entitled to their breaking point (not that I like this promo thing either)
Wishing you well on your travels. Hope to see you again some day if wizards figures out how to make marketing gimmicks player-friendly... or decides to let the game speak for itself.
It looks as though it could create hilarious interactions with Kresh where killing off most creatures powers up all of your Kreshes and killing any single Kresh doubles the power of all remaining Kreshes.
Dangit. I kne that I was forgetting one.
Personally, I CAN see some tension between straight-up combo and self-mill
While self-mill greatly increases card availability after muldrotha comes out (turn 4-6), early self-mill can accidentally cost you a vampiric tutor or intuition that you can't cast from your graveyard.
While cards like mnemonic wall or eternal witness could theoretically grab those tutors from your graveyard, it would do so far too slowly. An optimized combo deck would be using these tutors to assemble pieces so that you can flat-out win the game the turn after Muldrotha resolves (turn 6 at the latest)
With that said, I do intend to run combo cards and high-synergy cards in my deck. I just hope that my games are less... identical than an average combo deck.
As far as vulnerable muldrotha, I am packing spellskite. Glen elendra archmage, sylvan safekeeper, greaves, boots, bear umbra, spider umbra, false demise, and fool's demise. It eats up a big chunk of cards but I REALLY want that commander-reliant toolbox gameplay.
I would also consider using riftsweeper if the thought of an exiled LED keeps you up at night. It's your one chance for getting it back and artificer's intuition or trinket mags can search it back out.
I really don't get this post.
Not the part about you being factually correct, of course. Playing with mill and leaving out demonic tutor will definitely lower the number of wins that my build would get. I don't think that anyone here is going to deny that.
To my knowledge, however, this thread is not specifically focused on cEDH and there is no rule in this thread requiring that all cards recommended be optimal choices. It's also hard to say that my post is trying to trick others into building subpar decks as my original post A) mentions that the use of tutors gets reliable early wins and B) specifies that I am an outlier who enjoys variance in play.
By not focusing on a self-mill toolbox approach over a combo-focused approach, I am focused on pursuing a different gameplay experience that I believe can still bring enjoyment (even if it comes with a lower win rate). If your intended messages was something along the lines of "I don't believe that your deck will work out as you expect as your commander paints a giant target on its head" or "there are probably better cards that you could pick for the approach you are pursuing" there are ways to communicate these messages that without implying idiocy or incompetence on my end.
Spectral Searchlight
If wizards manages to overlook the searchlight, I would be very surprised.