Nexus of Fate is much more rare than WotC will let you believe. Think about it, if you could make a cool $140 selling the promo, rather than issuing these out to people who buy a box, would you do it? I know some stores and people wouldn't, but some do. I seen playsets on ebay before the set was released for $110-120, ready to ship a week before the actual release day. You can't tell me that those were from people who preordered boxes and wanted to get rid of said BAB promo?
We had a similar incident with Fatal Push FNM promos as well, being sold 2-3 days before they were available as promos. One of the LGS in my area was caught doing this and I believe their WPN status was flagged.
As I said before, this is a symptom of a bigger problem. Local game stores have a hard time bringing in revenue and selling product when their online competitors outprice them in every way. In a way, I sorta don't blame stores selling promos to keep afloat, especially if the set is mythic heavy in value, if they're trying to keep afloat. By selling promos like that to keep afloat, it's having an opposite intended effect of having players get these promos to sell boxes. IF they don't have the promos on hand, then it becomes a problem of selling boxes without promos. I believe that LGSs can't sell promos until a certain time frame has passed.
Maybe a solution (if WotC continues to print BaB promos that are not part of the set) is to include the promo INSIDE the box itself. Mass box openers will have copies. Players who want to buy a box will get the copy. Supply is based on sales of boxes, so there's guaranteed value in the box and it would keep the prices of the cards in check due to the influx of cards entering the stores and hands of players. It would keep stores fair and honest by not having the promos on their person to sell. This would have the intended effect for boosting booster box sales for WPN stores, and if LGS owners want to sell the promo, they can because it's part of the set, while not being part of the set at the same time.
But if this is a concern and "the powers that be" can't do this, maybe reverting back to the original BaB promos might be better. There were some GREAT BaB promos of the past: Birds of Paradise, Surgical Extraction, Goblin Rabblemaster, Supreme Verdict, just to name a few. You can't tell me that they don't know what cards are and aren't going to be played. That's what the Future Future League can look for, right?
Or make BaB promos in each set be a chase card from a previous set. This would incentivize players to buy older booster packs as well.
What's the saying that I've heard before: Magic is one of the best games out there, ran by one of the worst companies.
The long and short of it is he believes that "the powers that be" don't believe that this is a problem currently. He states that it's easy to get caught up in what others believe. However, I don't think that's the case in this situation. As part of his "charity", he takes it upon himself as a spokesperson for WotC and tries to put a spin on it to calm the masses using these quotes:
"There are many players who like the promotion..."
"So why are we continuing the promotion? Because it was very successful at doing what it was created to do and was well liked by enough of our audience to justify it..."
"...we have to weigh all the feedback from all the interested parties as well as look at what it’s doing overall for the business and we came to the conclusion that it was worth continuing."
I see that he's putting a positive spin on it, but at what cost does this road take us? Does temporary gains from some people outweigh the longevity of the player base? There are plenty of people having problems firing off FNM events as of late. Does this exclusive problem help? Nope, not in the slightest. If they wanted to improve FNM and general MTG attendance, then why did they cut money for FNM and special event promos, while simultaneously increase prices on booster boxes? Why did they cut the Wizard's Direct service for purchasing booster boxes and instead make it "distributor only"? Why are we having issues with poor card quality and curling? It all comes down to the bottom line of profits. There are plenty of videos on youtube discussing these changes and how they are counter intuitive to quotes of "helping the local gaming stores with these exclusive promos".
To argue that these BAB promos are for support of the stores is ridiculous. It's merely a cheap, temporary piece of tape trying to cover up cost saving methods of increasing profits in their pockets. WotC wants attendance numbers to be up, but aren't willing to spend money to upkeep this. I think they are banking on MTG Arena to usher in a large group of players to boost numbers of "active" players.
As for the real solution to fix this problem, I know of one that would work. It would reward players who attend FNMs, Standard Showdowns, PPTQs, RPTQs, etc. It would support local game stores, as long as they were willing to follow the guidelines given. Provide more support to the local games store. More promos. More showdown packs. More tangible rewards, such as lapel pins or patches, deck boxes, unique sleeves, whatever. Create an ongoing league to accrue planeswalker points and make planeswalker points matter by instating a reward system where you would trade in your points for certain promos at your LGS that you play at. Invest in your player base. Invest in your stores that promote your game. Show them you care by showering them and us in unique gifts. The logistic are there and it wouldn't be terribly hard to create. However I know that WotC won't do it because it would require them to spend more money than they are wanting to.
I know that I'm rambling and it's a bit off topic, but the BAB promos are but one symptom of many something much bigger than we should all see: Corporate Greed.
I would like to say that some of these choices were pretty decent (the ones that I put an asterisk on) from a Standard playable stand point. Hell, I actually understand Burning Sun's Avatar for the person who likes big dumb dinosaur effects. However, there were a few choices which were complete misses, such as Goblin Dark-Dwellers for Oath of the Gatewatch (which doesn't highlight any of the primary themes of the set)and Skyship Stalker (c'mon, we ALL know this is hot garbage outside of draft/sealed, plus doesn't introduce us any of the mechanics of the set) as the biggest culprits of poor choices.
I know that R&D/FFL/WotC doesn't know what cards are going to be standouts and great standard playables from each set, but I know they have a pulse of the Standard environment and know what cards are going to be somewhat playable. If you want to throw a bone to the local game stores, make the BAB a planeswalker from each set. That would solidify a strong portion of people wanting a box at that point. No one complains about free planeswalkers, even if they're bad!
This is the slippery slope that many of us has mentioned that would happen when Nexus of Fate was previewed. When you make cards that can ONLY be obtained as a BAB promo and it sees play in a Pro Tour or Grand Prix winning deck lists, then it causes a huge spikes in value and makes standard even harder to enter for newer players. Their solution to increase box sales SHOULD of been making BAB promos a more desirable card that is printed in the set. The last BAB promo that I thought was great was Thalia, Heretic Cathar from Eldritch Moon. I think that should be a good direction for BAB promos: Desirable Rares or Mythics in the set!
But I think that this stems from a much bigger problem. If WotC needs to create special, new, only obtainable through buying a box on release, cards for BAB promos to sell boxes, then that must mean that the sets aren't selling well due to the booster boxes not being strong or desirable sets. A vast majority of common and uncommon cards in these recent sets are draft chaff. And Ixalan and Rivals of Ixalan were one of the worst draft sets that I've personally experienced in awhile.
I've also heard that WoTC is on damage control on MTGO, adjusting the chances in chests for Nexus of Fate. I think that WotC knows they screwed the pooch on this one and I can't wait to see how they react to the public outcry for this card in the future, but like a lot of things in MTG recently, I only expect some sort of disappointment.
I think if you plan on splashing black, it gives you Torment of Hailfire and Cut // Ribbons for good early spot removal. I find that both of those cards work extremely well. Hope that helps
I think that it is possible to go another control based route with Guttersnipe, but I'd look into previous builds of old standard decks that had Guttersnipe in it.
Siege-Gang Commander would be a great addition to the deck b/c it gives you an outlet if you whiff on finding Etali, Primal Storm and can close out the game with burn. I think you also might be better off waiting for the full spoilers of Core 2019 before being ready to build this deck though. There are a couple of nice goblins in that set already spoiled, like Goblin Instigator, Goblin Motivator, and Dark-Dweller Oracle .
they will never put a format defining card as BAB promo. just look at the cards they put in the PW decks, they will go down the same line.
PW decks are a product that are print-to-demand, similar to booster boxes of standard legal sets, thus the cards printed in them will be lower. These BAB-only promos are the only printings of them and are a limited card. Value will be much higher than a PW deck.
“Hypothetical situations,” aka slippery slopes. Wizards has made a few bad decisions in recent years, granted, but they’ve also done their best to fix them. If faith is really that low then why are we talking at all?
We talk about it because this is a hobby that we both enjoy.
I see that Firesong and Sunspeaker is a card that WILL see Commander play for giving Boros something different in their Commander slot. There will be demand for it, and that demand will be much higher since the only way of getting one is through a BAB promo. Now, let's say that someone likes that Commander is 1-2 years from now. Do you think it's fair that they have to pay an inflated price on something that could of been in the main set, but was someone from WoTC's marketing group that thought it would be a great way to snag a few extra bucks on release by making a card that is ONLY available as a promo? I don't and I know that some others don't either. That is called artificial demand. But hey bud, you do you. I'm just raising awareness of a potential pitfall in this grand plan that WoTC has.
Prepare your wallets for some fun in the future if you don't think that this isn't just a quick cash grab.
Look, it's not about how much money you have or anyone has to play hobbies. It's the principal that printing possible format staples as BAB promos that are not printed anywhere else to drive sales up is just plain short-sighted and wrong. Just imagine if they print a BAB-only card that pre-orders for 30-40 bucks because of its play ability in certain formats. I guarantee you that the normal players would not get their hand on it b/c some people would buy multiple boxes and sell off the promo. Even worse, some stores might just take the promos and sell them without using them to sell boxes, citing something like "We ran out" or "Wizards didn't send us any". The set will sell well and WoTC will feel happy about it. The common player who couldn't get that card will be forced to purchase the card for an inflated price on the secondary market and send poor feedback to WoTC about not acquiring the card as intended, thus sending poor feedback to WoTC.
BTW, the FNM promo Fatal Push had an issue with it being sold on eBay for 25-30 bucks a few days before they were available as a promo for the common players. WPN stores are not allowed to do that and that's a card that was in a Standard set. Imagine if the promo version is the only version AND is a format staple?
Granted, I am well aware that these are hypothetical situations, but there's nothing stopping them from doing it, except the customers.
BFZ block had more than Expeditions going its way. Let's not forget that full art lands were printed in the set as well. Mark Rosewater also mentions that BFZ block was on a lower level than he would like to see. Links here:
Also, did you see the dimishing returns on Masterpieces, in general? WoTC put the Masterpiece series on hiatus, due to not having enough cards to fill them out.
So, remind me how much a Mana Crypt costs before a reprint in Eternal Masters? That was reprinted 15-20 years later?? And how much is it now, after the reprint? Hell, how about the price before the masterpiece version from Kaladesh block?
I don't think that this card is anything like the Nalathni Dragon, but I think it has much more of a casual appeal to the Commander crowd, thus driving up the price of this card. I'm sure anyone who wants to buy a card is willing to spend enough money on it to get it. But this reeks of a test run of a cheap cash grab to get the Commander crowd to buy the set.
You're comparing apples to oranges FlossedBeaver. Powerful cards printed at Mythic is one thing, since you can buy packs to acquire the card. This, however, is completely different. They tried this before with Nalathni Dragon and that didn't go so hot.
I do not like the fact that Firesong and Sunspeaker are ONLY obtainable through a Buy-a-box promo. If this card comes out as part of the set or are in another supplemental set of some sort, I can see the logic behind it. However, the first Boros commander that they print that isn't "SMASH FACE with creatures" is only obtainable as a buy-a-box promo only cements that they WANT Dominaria to be successful. I agree that this is "DLC content" for MTG and it shoudn't be this way.
Many confusing questions can come up, mainly: "Is this card legal in Standard" question.
Also:
"It's not part of the set proper, but ONLY as a promo?"
"So I could of got this card ONLY if I bought Dominaria booster box when the set came out?"
Just imagine if they put an actual POWERFUL staple standard or modern card in it's place that is a necessary 4-of in many decks, or a functional reprint akin to a "Lightning Bolt, but not named Lightning Bolt" in it's spot. This only opens the floodgates to other mischievous things to get WoTC to sell boxes. C'mon, I hope I'm not in the minority here, right??
This website has been very friendly and is a great place for deck ideas and information. It was a great thing to be on this website and to participate in forum discussions and deck ideas. Hopefully the thing that's coming in the pipeline will pan out well. Thank you to all who helped me build better decks and explained cards in a fairly civilized manor.
Just wanted to let you know that this is a great resource for monitoring changes in card prices. Besides the lands from BFZ, what other cards from BFZ do you think are going to spike up, or are good cards to pick up now before a spike in price?
We had a similar incident with Fatal Push FNM promos as well, being sold 2-3 days before they were available as promos. One of the LGS in my area was caught doing this and I believe their WPN status was flagged.
As I said before, this is a symptom of a bigger problem. Local game stores have a hard time bringing in revenue and selling product when their online competitors outprice them in every way. In a way, I sorta don't blame stores selling promos to keep afloat, especially if the set is mythic heavy in value, if they're trying to keep afloat. By selling promos like that to keep afloat, it's having an opposite intended effect of having players get these promos to sell boxes. IF they don't have the promos on hand, then it becomes a problem of selling boxes without promos. I believe that LGSs can't sell promos until a certain time frame has passed.
Maybe a solution (if WotC continues to print BaB promos that are not part of the set) is to include the promo INSIDE the box itself. Mass box openers will have copies. Players who want to buy a box will get the copy. Supply is based on sales of boxes, so there's guaranteed value in the box and it would keep the prices of the cards in check due to the influx of cards entering the stores and hands of players. It would keep stores fair and honest by not having the promos on their person to sell. This would have the intended effect for boosting booster box sales for WPN stores, and if LGS owners want to sell the promo, they can because it's part of the set, while not being part of the set at the same time.
But if this is a concern and "the powers that be" can't do this, maybe reverting back to the original BaB promos might be better. There were some GREAT BaB promos of the past: Birds of Paradise, Surgical Extraction, Goblin Rabblemaster, Supreme Verdict, just to name a few. You can't tell me that they don't know what cards are and aren't going to be played. That's what the Future Future League can look for, right?
Or make BaB promos in each set be a chase card from a previous set. This would incentivize players to buy older booster packs as well.
What's the saying that I've heard before: Magic is one of the best games out there, ran by one of the worst companies.
http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/174024638688/going-forward-well-be-continuing-this
The long and short of it is he believes that "the powers that be" don't believe that this is a problem currently. He states that it's easy to get caught up in what others believe. However, I don't think that's the case in this situation. As part of his "charity", he takes it upon himself as a spokesperson for WotC and tries to put a spin on it to calm the masses using these quotes:
"There are many players who like the promotion..."
"So why are we continuing the promotion? Because it was very successful at doing what it was created to do and was well liked by enough of our audience to justify it..."
"...we have to weigh all the feedback from all the interested parties as well as look at what it’s doing overall for the business and we came to the conclusion that it was worth continuing."
I see that he's putting a positive spin on it, but at what cost does this road take us? Does temporary gains from some people outweigh the longevity of the player base? There are plenty of people having problems firing off FNM events as of late. Does this exclusive problem help? Nope, not in the slightest. If they wanted to improve FNM and general MTG attendance, then why did they cut money for FNM and special event promos, while simultaneously increase prices on booster boxes? Why did they cut the Wizard's Direct service for purchasing booster boxes and instead make it "distributor only"? Why are we having issues with poor card quality and curling? It all comes down to the bottom line of profits. There are plenty of videos on youtube discussing these changes and how they are counter intuitive to quotes of "helping the local gaming stores with these exclusive promos".
To argue that these BAB promos are for support of the stores is ridiculous. It's merely a cheap, temporary piece of tape trying to cover up cost saving methods of increasing profits in their pockets. WotC wants attendance numbers to be up, but aren't willing to spend money to upkeep this. I think they are banking on MTG Arena to usher in a large group of players to boost numbers of "active" players.
As for the real solution to fix this problem, I know of one that would work. It would reward players who attend FNMs, Standard Showdowns, PPTQs, RPTQs, etc. It would support local game stores, as long as they were willing to follow the guidelines given. Provide more support to the local games store. More promos. More showdown packs. More tangible rewards, such as lapel pins or patches, deck boxes, unique sleeves, whatever. Create an ongoing league to accrue planeswalker points and make planeswalker points matter by instating a reward system where you would trade in your points for certain promos at your LGS that you play at. Invest in your player base. Invest in your stores that promote your game. Show them you care by showering them and us in unique gifts. The logistic are there and it wouldn't be terribly hard to create. However I know that WotC won't do it because it would require them to spend more money than they are wanting to.
I know that I'm rambling and it's a bit off topic, but the BAB promos are but one symptom of many something much bigger than we should all see: Corporate Greed.
Ruinous Path - BFZ*
Goblin Dark-Dwellers - Oath of the Gatewatch
Elusive Tormentor - Shadows over Innistrad
Thalia, Heretic Cathar - Eldritch Moon*
Skyship Stalker - Kaladesh
Scrap Trawler - Aether Revolt
Archfiend of Ifnir - Amonkhet*
Wildfire Eternal - Hour of Devastation
Burning Sun's Avatar - Ixalan
Random Double Face Card - Rivals of Ixalan*
I would like to say that some of these choices were pretty decent (the ones that I put an asterisk on) from a Standard playable stand point. Hell, I actually understand Burning Sun's Avatar for the person who likes big dumb dinosaur effects. However, there were a few choices which were complete misses, such as Goblin Dark-Dwellers for Oath of the Gatewatch (which doesn't highlight any of the primary themes of the set)and Skyship Stalker (c'mon, we ALL know this is hot garbage outside of draft/sealed, plus doesn't introduce us any of the mechanics of the set) as the biggest culprits of poor choices.
I know that R&D/FFL/WotC doesn't know what cards are going to be standouts and great standard playables from each set, but I know they have a pulse of the Standard environment and know what cards are going to be somewhat playable. If you want to throw a bone to the local game stores, make the BAB a planeswalker from each set. That would solidify a strong portion of people wanting a box at that point. No one complains about free planeswalkers, even if they're bad!
But I think that this stems from a much bigger problem. If WotC needs to create special, new, only obtainable through buying a box on release, cards for BAB promos to sell boxes, then that must mean that the sets aren't selling well due to the booster boxes not being strong or desirable sets. A vast majority of common and uncommon cards in these recent sets are draft chaff. And Ixalan and Rivals of Ixalan were one of the worst draft sets that I've personally experienced in awhile.
I've also heard that WoTC is on damage control on MTGO, adjusting the chances in chests for Nexus of Fate. I think that WotC knows they screwed the pooch on this one and I can't wait to see how they react to the public outcry for this card in the future, but like a lot of things in MTG recently, I only expect some sort of disappointment.
Thank GOD for eternal formats!
4 Bomat Courier
4 Ghitu Lavarunner
4 Soul-Scar Mage
3 Earthshaker Khenra
4 Viashino Pyromancer
4 Goblin Chainwhirler
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Wizard's Lightning
Enchantments (3)
3 The Flame of Keld
Lands (22)
22 Mountain
3 Banefire
3 Chandra's Defeat
3 Abrade
3 Aethersphere Harvester
3 Guttersnipe
With some tweaking, we can make Guttersnipe shine:
3 Bomat Courier
3 Ghitu Lavarunner
4 Soul-Scar Mage
4 Guttersnipe
2 Viashino Pyromancer
2 Goblin Chainwhirler
Spells (17)
4 Shock
4 Lightning Strike
4 Wizard's Lightning
2 Abrade
2 Invigorated Rampage
1 Chandra's Pyrohelix
3 The Flame of Keld
Lands (22)
22 Mountain
3 Banefire
3 Chandra's Defeat
2 Abrade
3 Aethersphere Harvester
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Goblin Chainwhirler
I think that it is possible to go another control based route with Guttersnipe, but I'd look into previous builds of old standard decks that had Guttersnipe in it.
PW decks are a product that are print-to-demand, similar to booster boxes of standard legal sets, thus the cards printed in them will be lower. These BAB-only promos are the only printings of them and are a limited card. Value will be much higher than a PW deck.
We talk about it because this is a hobby that we both enjoy.
I see that Firesong and Sunspeaker is a card that WILL see Commander play for giving Boros something different in their Commander slot. There will be demand for it, and that demand will be much higher since the only way of getting one is through a BAB promo. Now, let's say that someone likes that Commander is 1-2 years from now. Do you think it's fair that they have to pay an inflated price on something that could of been in the main set, but was someone from WoTC's marketing group that thought it would be a great way to snag a few extra bucks on release by making a card that is ONLY available as a promo? I don't and I know that some others don't either. That is called artificial demand. But hey bud, you do you. I'm just raising awareness of a potential pitfall in this grand plan that WoTC has.
Prepare your wallets for some fun in the future if you don't think that this isn't just a quick cash grab.
BTW, the FNM promo Fatal Push had an issue with it being sold on eBay for 25-30 bucks a few days before they were available as a promo for the common players. WPN stores are not allowed to do that and that's a card that was in a Standard set. Imagine if the promo version is the only version AND is a format staple?
Granted, I am well aware that these are hypothetical situations, but there's nothing stopping them from doing it, except the customers.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/because-salt-makes-mistakes-taste-great-2016-05-09
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/state-design-2016-2016-08-29
Also, did you see the dimishing returns on Masterpieces, in general? WoTC put the Masterpiece series on hiatus, due to not having enough cards to fill them out.
I don't think that this card is anything like the Nalathni Dragon, but I think it has much more of a casual appeal to the Commander crowd, thus driving up the price of this card. I'm sure anyone who wants to buy a card is willing to spend enough money on it to get it. But this reeks of a test run of a cheap cash grab to get the Commander crowd to buy the set.
Many confusing questions can come up, mainly: "Is this card legal in Standard" question.
Also:
"It's not part of the set proper, but ONLY as a promo?"
"So I could of got this card ONLY if I bought Dominaria booster box when the set came out?"
Just imagine if they put an actual POWERFUL staple standard or modern card in it's place that is a necessary 4-of in many decks, or a functional reprint akin to a "Lightning Bolt, but not named Lightning Bolt" in it's spot. This only opens the floodgates to other mischievous things to get WoTC to sell boxes. C'mon, I hope I'm not in the minority here, right??