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  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    Quote from PyreDream »
    Here's some cards I saw in a few lists, I think they're a bit weird and could use a word or two on why they see inclusion:

    Indulgent Tormentor is playable, but I wouldn't include it at 360. It's a 5 mana creature that 'dies to removal' (instant and sorcery speed) and it even dies to bolt. It's basically only playable in midrange decks and there are enough better cards for the cost, especially in other colors. I cut it because it's neither very powerful nor needed for anything. Only put it in due to the lack of 5+ cmc creatures in black to begin with.

    I mainly run Quest for the Gravelord as payoff for aristocrats style decks, where it's easy to trigger it reliably and quite early. Certainly not needed at 360 and if you don't support that deck I wouldn't play it.

    Hoarding Dragon is borderline at best indeed. There aren't that many powerful artifacts in peasant, especially if you don't run the op cards like Skullclamp or Warhammer. Red doesn't really need any 5 cmc creatures either. Wouldn't play at 360. Better 5 cmc cards to run are Charging Monstrosaur, Rite of the Raging Storm or Skizzik (which is not really a 5 cmc card).

    Shower of Coals is a powerful card. Peasant has a high density of x/2 already, so hitting two creatures and dealing 2 damage is quite easily possible even without threshold. And the ceiling is a 3 for 1, which is obviously extremely good.

    Lust for War is an aggro card for fast decks. So I guess you need a relatively fast cube or it won't work that well. It's a fun card though.

    Like you already figured out I run Roar of the Wurm mainly for decks that can discard it into the graveyard - mostly self-mill. A 6/6 for 4 mana you basically get for free is great. As a ramp target it's mediocre at best, rarely ends up in a pure ramp deck in my cube.

    Weaver of Lightning is a good card for a spells matter control/midrange deck. Survives almost all the peasant sweepers, is a great blocker and can turn a Firebolt into a Chain Lightning or simply remove a x/1 (and there are plenty of those in peasant).

    I have never considered Baleful Ammit. A 3/2 for 3 is bad, even with lifelink. So you need something you can put the counter on without being unhappy about it, which you won't have reliably in most decks. Maybe someone else who played with the card can give you more insight, but I wouldn't play it.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Throne of Eldraine for Peasant Cube
    Venerable Knight is another good white aggro one drop with small upside. Currently I only have 5 knights in my cube and one knight token producer, but I already have two more knights (not counting Venerable Knight itself) I want to add in this set. Will definitely replace one of my existing one drops, probably Dragon Hunter.

    Keeper of Fables could be a decent card. Reasonable body and I only have 5 humans in green. A bit slow probably though and the 5 cmc spot in green is already filled with very good cards.

    Wish Fireborn Knight was a bit more pushed. Either the pump effect would need to be cheaper or the base stats should have been better.

    Quote from JovianHomarid »
    I'm a bit concerned about the complexity-level of adventure. I play with some very occasional/casual players every once in a while, and I am not sure if the reminder text alone is enough to make it clear what an adventure does. This means that I will probably not add only one or two adventure card(s) unless they are super good fits, so that explaining adventure at the start of the draft is worth it.

    Yes, I also feel like this is one of the rare mechanics that isn't self-explaining, not even with reminder text. I don't really mind that much as we're super casual and if anyone has a question they just ask during the draft, but it's not the most elegant mechanic. Unfortunately Order of Midnight is already a pretty great and versatile card, so I will have to add it.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Throne of Eldraine for Peasant Cube
    Seems like the new spoiled cards explain the adventure sorcery a bit more. You cast the card as a sorcery and it gets exiled when it resolves. You can cast the creature part of the card from exile later. Or you cast the creature right from the start and don't get the sorcery? Or can you cast the sorcery any time you want, even if it's on the battlefield already? That would be awesome, but probably too good.

    Order of Midnight is awesome, 2/2 flyer that can't block for 1B with possible upside that turns him into a far better Gravedigger.

    Syr Konrad the Grim is interesting as well. Good in a sacrifice and in a graveyard deck. Definitely something I'll consider.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    To add one thing to the 'tutor cards break the game' argument - if you don't have any broken combos and if you have a homogenous powerlevel within your cardpool tutors aren't any different from harmless modal spells like Goblin Cratermaker. And that's exactly the environment we have in peasant cubes. The gap between the best and the worst card isn't that large and there are no combos that end the game on the spot (or even something remotely similar).

    So what you get with Demonic Tutor is an extremely versatile modal spell that comes with a rather hefty price tag (+2 mana, sorcery speed only). That's still very good, but also very fair and not broken at all. Now Imperial Recruiter is far worse in every way possible, which may still be playable, but which I wouldn't call very good anymore (and certainly not game breaking).

    There is a reason why Diabolic Tutor is considered a terrible limited card even in retail limited, where you have a slow environment and a huge power difference between cards sometimes and where it's still crap.

    Btw, Demonic Tutor is actually very similar to the things Pyredream said about Force of Will. Imagine Legacy without combo decks. Would Demonic Tutor be broken if they unbanned it if only fair decks were allowed? I would even go as far and say that it wouldn't see any play at all if that was the case simply because it would be too expensive for what it does.

    Quote from MagicFever »

    @ Phitt: you play Enlightened Tutor and Mystical Tutor in your cube. How is your experinence with these? See, I stay away from these as they are card disadvantage and for me the cards you put on top of your library are not powerful enough to justify the card disadvantage.

    Enlightened Tutor is overall more often played, it can search for equipment, for important blink/bounce cards like Erratic Portal/Crystal Shard and white removal like Oblivion Ring, Banishing Light etc. So it's great as archetype support that can fetch a removal spell when there is a need for it. Mystical Tutor can be a decent utility card for control decks and in reanimator it can find spells like Frantic Search or Reanimate for a cheap cost early on.

    Card disadvantage can be worth it since these basically come for free if you cast them eot. Like I've already said in the Recruiter discussion mana cost matters a lot in my cube environment and many decks can live with card disadvantage better than with spells that are too expensive. Plus Mystical Tutor is blue, which is a color that can more easily make up for the card disadvantage.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    What is a fair price depends on the cards you can tutor for. Demonic Tutor is banned in all non-casual constructed formats but Vintage for a reason, but in CU/be it's just a good utility card. Imperial Recruiter may be a powerful card in a Legacy insta win combo deck, but in CU/be it's hardly ever worth it to pay three mana extra for a random 2 power creature and a token.

    Tutors don't break the game at all, it's the combination of tutors and the cards you can tutor for that break the game.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    I'm not missing the general point of tutors, I'm just questioning that you will have a lot of situations where paying three additional mana for a 1/1 and a 2 power creature of your choice is better than playing any decent three drop that has a board impact on its own already. This will hardly ever be the case in the early to mid game where you usually can't allow yourself to (almost) waste a whole turn.

    And it's not like peasant has any unbeatable bombs that require very specific answers to deal with, neither are there any broken combos you could tutor for. And that even after assuming that a 2 power max creature in your deck would be able to deal with a potentional bomb or would be part of a combo.

    But good luck testing the card. Like I said, I don't think it's unplayable, but I'm very sure this would be a low tier card in my cube as it's so, sooo much worse than Demonic Tutor and while Tutor is obviously very good, it is far from overpowered.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Throne of Eldraine for Peasant Cube
    My guess would be that you first have to cast the creature and then you can pay the adventure sorcery cost to send it on an adventure. From an immersive pov the card should probably phase out for a turn (= creature becomes an exiled sorcery with an adventure counter on it, similar to All Hallow's Eve?) and when it returns (remove adventure counter during your upkeep, sorcery becomes a creature again) you get the effect.

    Maraleaf Pixie seems ok, but it's boring and not really needed in my cube.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    If you start thinking about corner cases and special interactions then every card with an etb effect suddenly becomes awesome. Especially if you don't even look at cards from the same color, which is another reason why Recruiter isn't that great - there hardly are any cards in red worth tutoring for. In my cube the only utility cards are Goblin Cratermaker and Fire Imp and there are no op targets I can think of, most creatures are even aggro, a deck where Recruiter is useless. Which is probably why people rather refer to Palace Jailer, Kor Skyfisher, Ravenous Chupacabra or Mulldrifter.

    Your cube has to be incredibly slow if Recruiter into Beetleback Chief is a good play as all you get is a 7 mana Beetleback Chief that gives you three instead of two tokens. And in that case any other three drop would have been way better as well (again, unless you are in top deck mode with 10 lands in play).

    Like I already said, Recruiter giving you value when you tutor for a fair target is just an illusion since people tend to forget that they could have played a real card instead of the tutor to begin with. In a deck with a well balanced curve any three drop with a real board impact will be way, way better on average than a three mana token that can fetch you a card you may not have even needed if you would have filled the 3 cmc spot with a useful card.

    Also, the often mentioned Palace Jailer isn't really a great target for Recruiter either. The strength of Jailer is that if you have an even board state he will give you the edge so you can keep being monarch. But if you waste your third turn to cast a 1/1 you're most likely behind when Jailer hits the board, so it makes the card far worse than it would normally be. And on top of that your opponent even knows that Jailer will come down the next turn, so he can prepare for it.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    Calling a 3 mana 1/1 'developing the board' is an euphemism. A 2/1 can at least trade with a reasonable amount of creatures, but a 1/1 without evasion reads 'you gain 3 life' at best at that point of the game. Sure, it's better than nothing, but it doesn't add much to a 3 cmc card and I certainly wouldn't say that it's worth half a card.

    Also, I don't see a reason why you would even tutor up value cards like Mulldrifter. The reason why they're good is that they provide good value for a low cost, but if you need 8 mana over two turns to play Mulldrifter with a 1/1 as a bonus then the ratio becomes terrible and you would have gotten more value by simply playing a 'real' three drop, even if it's one tier below Mulldrifter.

    Of course there are situations where you only have that one card left with 10 lands on the board, but I don't think that's how you properly evaluate a three drop. Otherwise you could just as well say that Artisan of Kozilek would have been the better choice.

    The reason why people aren't unhappy with Recruiter is that you always get something useful out of it, but I think if you are honest to yourself and ask yourself whether a decent 'real' three drop (like, say, Fire Imp or Cloudkin Seer) would have helped more in a specific situation the answer is 'yes' more than 50% of the time.

    I don't think tutors are problematic or unfair at all in peasant. There are no two card insta kill combos like in constructed or even regular cube. I run all the Mirage tutors and Demonic Tutor and I would run more if there were any worth running. It's the easiest way to enable archetypes with only few playable, but important cards.

    Last, but not least I can agree that Recruiter is a nice card in aristocrats at least as the combination of the weak body and the tutor effect is much more useful than elsewhere in that deck.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    The thing is that you have to pay three mana at sorcery speed to get your valuable target and then you still have to cast it. So you need seven mana to play Recruiter and Chupacabra in a single turn for example, which is unlikely. Due to the mana cost the card isn't really any better than Diabolic Tutor, which can get you any card you want for just one more mana and which doesn't see any play. Even Demonic Tutor is hardly broken in CU/be, and I think there is no need to say how much better than Recruiter it is.

    Worldly Tutor is 1 mana instant speed, which more than makes up for its shortcomings - if you play it eot it's pretty much the same as getting the creature immediately, but for a fraction of the cost and with the option to cast other instant speed spells during your opponent's turn if there is a need for it. And you can play the creatures you tutored for immediately afterwards with full mana before your opponent can react to it. It's just leagues better than Recruiter.

    A 1/1 isn't completely worthless, but I think we can agree that the impact it has on a 3 mana card is almost negligible. Unless you can blink/bounce it in a grindy value deck, which I already mentioned and which is unlikely given that red is the worst blink color.

    I believe if this was a random black $0.1 common no one would even look at it. But since it's a well-known, expensive Legacy card that used to be ultra rare and since red is a shallow color it's an option. It's a bad tutor in a color that doesn't have tutors normally. Nothing more, nothing less.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    I've never played Imperial Recruiter, but I've never been a big fan either. Without any way to abuse the etb ability it's just a bad Worldly Tutor, a card that is already pretty mediocre even in a color that is all about creatures. Don't see the value you get from Recruiter, simply running another 'real' three drop will be better in 90% of cases unless you somehow manage to draft a combo deck that needs a specific 2 power card (which is unlikely in peasant).

    The only saving grace Recruiter has is that red is a rather shallow and boring color while Recruiter is a card with a unique effect. If I had one I'd probably play him, but I'm not going to pay €30 for a card that I would most likely replace sooner than later anyway if we get more interesting red cards like Light up the Stage.

    I got banned from board game geek for saying that no one here actually likes board games

    So I'm going to speak my mind and drive my dagger into the sacred cows that I see. I see no alternative to this.

    Praise the Don Quijote of the gaming world!
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    Assume my argument is true for a moment, that most players don't actually like having to interact or play the game

    Why should anyone assume this utter nonsense you dare to call an argument? I don't like interaction with other players and I don't want to play the game? This is no argument, it's an insult and the very definition of trolling.

    Honestly this entire discussion is based on a false premise- ie that consensus is at all useful for cube construction which is a matter of personal taste.

    No, it is not. There is a reason why people learn how to make movies, write books, develop games etc even if the end result may be subjective. If you just let a clueless person do the opposite of what is considered state of the art then crap will come out of it - always.

    Also, if you think dicussing cube design/construction isn't useful, why are you even here? Because that's why we are here at least and you certainly won't change that. You're like someone who goes to a cooking forum and tells people what they do is useless as they can just as well eat canned ravioli instead of cooking a three star menu, because taste is subjective.

    I'm fine with drawing fire, I just don't want to be banned. I don't know why you guys can't tolerate opposing view points, I don't want any of you guys banned.

    I would almost start to cry now if you wouldn't have insulted everyone on this forum over and over again just because they told you that 1+1 is 2 and not 3.

    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    Quote from Leelue »
    At what point is someone too much of a preachy, repetitive, hyperbolic, stubborn contrarian before mods actually consider a more permanent solution?

    Asking for a friend.

    That's crazy, I have a friend who would like to know as well!
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    Why do we have to restrict ourselves to the false dichotomy of "multicolor section or monocolor section"? Just because cube tutor sorts them that way doesn't mean we have to. Why can't we have a third designation "playable in either color"? It allows for cards like Rakdos Cackler and demigod of revenge to both exist without horrible misclassification.

    How would that make a difference? It's about color balance and having a 'playable in red or black' section (aka as Rakdos hybrid section) for Rakdos Cackler wouldn't help with that unless you added the same amount of hybrid cards for all color pairs. And a large 'playable in more than one color' section where you just throw in every hybrid card would make it worse as then you'd end up with noticeably more cards in some colors than in others. I have two hybrid cards in Rakdos for example, but no hybrid cards in Simic.

    I can agree with Guitarspider that color balance doesn't need to be 100% perfect as no player will notice a difference when red has 57 cards and green has only 56 cards, but there will still be a minor statistical difference.

    Personally I want color balance to be as close as possible, both for aesthetic and gameplay reasons. As long as I don't have to restrict myself from playing good and fun cards (or have to play bad cards just to get the right balance) I see no reason not to strive for that.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    I had hybrid cards in my guild section for quite some time until I was annoyed by it. In some cases it didn't matter since there was enough space, but ultimately it either didn't allow me to run the true two color cards I wanted or it prevented me from running hybrid cards I wanted to run, but had no space for in my guild section.

    Most hybrid cards are single color cards that can be played in either color, so it makes no sense to run them in the guild section. Of course you can do whatever you want, but from my pov it just limits your options. When there are two good counterparts like Rakdos Cackler and Murderous Redcap it's a no-brainer, though I even run hybrids without a counterpart in the color where I have space and where I feel it fits best.

    Expanding the guild section for hybrids is never a good idea as too many guild cards make the cube more linear to draft and you have to fill the guilds that don't have any playable hybrids with mediocre cards just to keep the balance intact. Well, you don't have to, but I think almost everyone wants a cube that is at least remotely balanced.

    I'm very happy with my decision to put hybrids into the mono color section and I won't ever put them back into my guild section unless they are meant to be played as true two color cards such as Torrent of Souls.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
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