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  • posted a message on Cards that haven't aged well
    I agree about Deep Analysis. 4 cmc sorcery speed is sooo slow, you can hardly ever justify doing that in most games. If you loot the card into the graveyard it's quite decent, but still - you get a bad version of Night's Whisper if you had another card you didn't really need that you could have discarded. And 3 life isn't nothing, sometimes it is a tough decision in the late game when you need cards the most. It's definitely on my cut list.

    Yavimaya Elder is decent value and I'd still play it if it was 2G instead of 1GG. But the double green killed it for me, even though green has less problems with cc cards than other colors. It's just not good enough to justify a cc cost and like already mentioned cc cost on a card where one of the main advantages is that it fixes your mana is bad. Llanowar Visionary is a much better card - it gives you value and ramp immediately and it even has a small chance to fix your mana as well.

    Completely disagree about Regrowth, which I still consider first pickable in a weak pack. It's a Demonic Tutor that is weaker in the early game and, at least sometimes, better in the late game. Combined with green self-mill effects (and there are plenty of those) it's even better. Can't imagine I'll ever cut this.

    One card I personally dislike is Sentinel of the Eternal Watch. I can't say it has aged badly, from my pov it was always overrated. It's a 6 cmc creature you can remove at sorcery speed without it ever doing something. And even if it stays it doesn't end the game quickly, it's just a decent creature with a good ability. If your removal is depowered/more conditional ymmv, but I've been looking or a replacement for a while now. If they ever print a decent card in the 6+ cmc range or if I run out of other cards I can cut in white it will be gone.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    Quote from Leelue »

    Black now has access to three blood artist payoffs for creatures dying, red has spiteful prankster (and hissing iguanaur for people who play strictly worse versions of cards), but what does white have?


    Black has access to four Blood Artists (Blood Artist, Zulaport Cutthroat, Bastion of Remembrance and Falkenrath Noble).

    White has all the great token cards, including cards like Promise of Bunrei and Belfry Spirit, which work exceptionally well in a sacrifice deck. And you get a good selection of cards in the Orzhov section, like Maw of the Obzedat, Hidden Stockpile, Corpse Knight (I play the misprint as if it was the real card), Cruel Celebrant and of course Lingering Souls.

    Oh, and I run Sylvok Lifestaff since the first iteration of my cube and never saw the need to remove it. It's a pretty good card in any token deck that isn't super aggressive and of course it's great in a sacrifice deck as well.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    Carrion Feeder is just a decent card in any aggressive deck with creatures.

    I had Viscera Seer in my cube for a while to support the sacrifice deck, but the only thing it has going for it is that the sacrifice ability is free. Which isn't enough to warrant an inclusion in most decks.

    I didn't play Vampiric Rites for a long time, but I recently added it back as support for the slower, more grindy version of the sacrifice deck. There are now enough Blood Artist variants and sac outlets that the deck works both in WB and RB. I am hopeful that the card will work out well enough in that type of deck when you have lots of creatures that are good for sacrificing and additional upside from Blood Artist variants, but I wouldn't run it in a random midrange deck.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    I run it mainly for the RG 'pump combo' deck in my cube. You use creatures like Kiln Fiend, Manaplasm, Genju of the Spires or simply any other creature with good stats and pump them with cards like Reckless Charge, Blossoming Defense, Mutagenic Growth, Become Immense etc. Temur Battle Rage is obviously great in combination with these creatures - If you go Llanowar Elves t1 and Kiln Fiend or Manaplasm t2 you can win on turn 3 already theoretically. If you have a bit of ramp you can even play everything you need in a single turn on turn 4 or 5 and kill your opponent with haste immediately.

    Obviously the deck is weak to removal, but haste (Lightning Mauler, Goblin Motivator, Reckless Charge or creatures that naturally have haste) helps a lot with that, especially in game 1. It's a fun deck and, at least theoretically, the fastest deck in my cube.

    But overall Temur Battle Rage is a very narrow card of course since only few creatures have 4 power on their own. And especially in red alone that doesn't happen often.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    I had Juniper Order Ranger in my cube mainly for this combo for a while before Good-Fortune Unicorn came out. It's a three color combo (even though you only need to splash for white) and with Demonic Tutor, Worldly Tutor, newer cards like Adventurous Impulse or Grapple with the Past and reanimation spells or Regrowth effects it's not completely unreliable. But ultimately it's a joke deck you draft once in 100 drafts, and that only if you know exactly what to look for.

    Right now I still have enough cards to run the combo. No Juniper Order Ranger, but Good-Fortune Unicorn and Renata, Called to the Hunt, which is better. But also no Viscera Seer, instead most sac outlets cost mana, which is slightly worse. Though a Thoughtpicker Witch or even Vampiric Rites should end the game quickly as well if combined with Kitchen Finks/Good-Fortune Unicorn), but your opponent still has a turn or two to remove a combo piece, though he will most likely be far behind already at that point.

    But ultimately it's super hard to get the deck together as in my cube you need Kitchen Finks, Murderous Redcap, Good-Fortune Unicorn and Renata, Called to the Hunt all at once plus at least 2-3 sac outlets, plus a bunch of card that help finding the cards you need plus mana fixing to get a three color deck to work properly. It can work out, but in a real draft you can easily end up with a train wreck of a deck if you end up with a few parts missing.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Reanimator (Is it too broken?)
    Quote from Vannatar »
    Interesting. I guess I didn't consider that the top end threats aren't as game-ending in peasant; maybe that's the check on the archetype I was looking for to reassure me that adding it wouldn't be too strong. So from a cursory glace at your list, you basically recommend running all the lowest cmc reanimation spells?


    Absolutely. No one runs Zombify because it's just not worth running. It's bad in reanimator and it's bad outside of reanimator. Animate Dead and Reanimate aren't overpowered, they're just good spells. In Peasant Reanimate is even pretty bad in reanimator since the life loss hurts a lot if you can't win immediately and a turn 1 reanimation is practically impossible. I like it more in aggro, but of course I take it for reanimator as well since there aren't many options.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Reanimator (Is it too broken?)
    First of all in CU/be you rarely get to reanimate a creature before turn 3 and you can't attack with it before turn 4. That's plenty of time for an aggro deck to attack you or for a midrange deck to build up defenses. Secondly the big creatures in peasant are not Inkwell Leviathan or Griselbrand, instead we have Pelakka Wurm or Trostani's Summoner. Certainly creatures that are hard to deal with, but nothing that will end the game on the spot.

    From my pov reanimator is one of the weaker archetypes in peasant. It is fragile and inconsistent since you need a discard outlet, a fatty and a reanimation spell early in the game all at once. And then you haven't won the game, you just have everything you need for a chance to win the game. If I replaced Animate Dead with Zombify the archetype would be gone from my cube as it would be impossible to win with it.

    The problem you have may be that reanimator is the only true combo archetype there is in peasant and if everything works perfectly right a reanimator deck can end the game as early as turn 4, which is faster than an aggro deck, which needs at least 5 turns usually. But that's just the way combo decks work. And from my experience this kind of very early win only happens very, very rarely. If you don't like combo decks get rid of reanimator, but don't remove it because it's op as that's clearly not the case.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    I like to compare Oketra's Attendant to Custodi Squire. Squire gives you a better version of Raise Dead (is there a card that returns a creature, artifact or enchantment? Too lazy to look it up) and a 3/3 flyer for 4W, Oketra's Attendant gives you a random card for 2 and then a 3/3 flyer for 3WW. Now of course with Attendant you can get the random card earlier and you have at least the option to play two 3/3 flyers late in the game instead, but does that make up for the loss of speed and quality? Not from my pov.

    Often you don't have the mana to cycle Attendant early and with a late Raise Dead+ you will almost always get something that is equal or better than a 3/3 flyer out of the yard. And that is of course more mana efficient as well. On top of that you have a WW cost, which can sometimes be a problem even on a 5 mana card. The only small advantage it has is that it's better against counterspells. But on the other hand Squire has the also small advantage that it can be abused with blink/bounce spells.

    Not that anyone said Oketra's Attendant is better than Custodi Squire, but I think both cards are similar enough and the difference between them in terms of quality is quite big. Personally I don't need a bad version of Custodi Squire in my cube, which is why I never considered Oketra's Attendant. It may be good enough for a 720 cube though.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    Quote from DJRedLantern »
    I think I'd rather have Serra Angel over Radiant Archangel the majority of the time. You need another flying creature for them to be even, and then 2 for the archangel to outpace Serra Angel. But if you already have 2 flying creatures in play you are often times already winning and the Archangel becomes win more. You absolutely can't play Archangel in random white decks without many fliers, because as a 3/3 it's pretty garbage. Whereas, I can see playing Serra Angel in many random white decks and still being decent.


    There are so many flying creatures and so many token cards with flying in white, it's not hard to get 2-3 flyers with Radiant, Archangel out even in a random deck. In my cube about one third of the creatures (including token producers) have flying in my white section and I don't think my cube has more flyers than most other CU/bes. And it's not my experience that you're winning anyway just because you have two flyers out. Combined with blue in a skies deck it's just sooo much better than Serra Angel and in a lot of regular white decks that want a 5 cmc creature it's at least equal or better.

    And like Calibretto said, it works with your opponent's creatures as well, which means it gets better if your opponent has flyers to block your own flyers, which is a huge benefit.

    There are white decks where Serra Angel is better for sure, but the majority of time? Not in my experience. And the ceiling for Radiant, Archangel is insane - a single Spectral Procession (which will certainly not make you win the game immediately) will turn this into a 6/6 vigilance flyer for 5 mana, and when your opponent has a Serendib Efreet and a Cloudkin Seer out? Ouch, it's an 8/8 flyer with vigilance. Your opponent better has a Go for the Throat ready when that happens or he is done. I'm not even talking about the best case with a full Battle Screech or Lingering Souls combined with a few flyers on your opponent's side.

    While the number of decks where you can play it may be more limited it is just far better in the decks where you can play it. And it's not like Serra Angel is a card I'm desperate for anyway, so I'd rather have one that is great in 50% of white midrange decks than one that is always just meh/card #23 in 100% of midrange decks. And that's coming from someone who loves old cards, especially from the 93/94 era and who wouldn't think twice about adding a nice CE/IE Serra Angel to his cube if it was good enough.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    Quote from Vannatar »
    Hello everyone. I'm pretty new to peasant, so I'd love to get your opinion on Patron of the Valiant compared to other white 5cmc creatures in a 720 card cube.


    In a random flyers deck Patron of the Valiant is just a bad Serra Angel, which is a very mediocre card in CU/be already. If it was in my cube I'd almost always find 23 better cards to put into a flyer deck. The only deck where it can shine is a dedicated +1/+1 counters deck, and that hardly warrants wasting a a slot on it as even in such a deck you don't always have a bunch of creatures with counters on them when you play it.

    You already run Elite Scaleguard, which also works in other decks and which is much better than Patron if you already have 2-3 creatures with counters on them.

    From your list Cloudgoat Ranger is a staple people only cut if they want to reduce power level. Elite Scaleguard is very good and a no-brainer if you have any kind of +1/+1 counters theme in your cube. Don't have much experience with Syr Alin, the Lion's Claw yet, but he's ok I guess. I run Belfry Spirit mainly for the sacrifice theme in Orzhov I have running, but I could see it getting cut eventually. Serra Angel, like already mentioned, is a mediocre card and an easy cut if you need room. I'm not a fan of Oketra's Attendant either. Totem-Guide Hartebeest may be a pet card of yours, but you have 7 auras out of 107 white cards and 18 auras out of 720 total cards in your cube. Even if you end up with two auras in a deck this is hardly a great card and often you won't even get that. I wouldn't play it.

    Notable omissions in your cube would be Custodi Squire, which is great value, and Radiant, Archangel (if you don't mind running online uncommons), which is great support for white tokens and flyers and a better alternative to Serra Angel.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    Quote from Leelue »

    I know you can't believe this is universally true because I know you don't think this of path to exile. So there is some amount of being good at different stages of the game that is acceptable. Defile never reaches the high point of PtE, obviously, and it requires you to be majority black, but it at least actually functions in the early game where PtE is probably a serious misplay.


    Well, now you got me. Obviously not every one mana spell needs to be great in the early game. But Path to Exile will remove any creature no matter what and it will do it when you need it and when you want it and you know exactly what kind of drawback you will get for it. It's your decision, and sometimes even a PtE on turn 2 or 3 can be the right play (I know for sure I cast it at that point many times and didn't regret it), while a Defile on turn 2 will often not give you any option because it simply can't do anything useful at that time. And sometimes it only hits a 2 toughness creature even on turn 10 - the chance to have three swamps by that time is only about 70% in a deck with 8 swamps if you go first, which means that will happen in almost 1 out of 3 games. That's quite a lot.

    Vampire Nighthawk seen as on/off switch is a good example because that's exactly why I play as few CC cards as possible and cut otherwise good cards like Consul's Lieutenant or Gifted Aetherborn from my cube. And that even though I run better mana fixing lands than most people. I still do not consider Nighthawk a great pick unless you have good fixing lands in your deck or play mono black. And Defile is worse than Nighthawk from that perspective as you absolutely need swamps to make it useful, so a City of Brass or Gemstone Mine or Thriving land or Paradise Druid or Coldsteel Heart etc won't do anything for it, while all these cards will allow you to cast Nighthawk. If you want Defile to be better than Disfigure it's like a CCC card that can only be cast from basic lands, which no one right in their mind would run if it was an on/off type card (not that anyone would run it if it was possible to cast it from any mana source...).

    Last but not least your graph is a bit exaggerated when it comes to late game usage of Defile vs Disfigure vs Path. On one hand it looks as if Defile becomes way better than Disfigure very quickly after just a few turns, which just isn't true when you look at how slowly the percentage where the average case becomes better rises. And while the average case may be reached after ~3.5 turns the randomness should be taken into account as well. I'd rather have a card that does what it says it does when I want to play it than a card that sometimes does more and sometimes does nothing. What would you prefer to play? A basic swamp or a land where you flip two coins during your upkeep/etb and for each flip won you get B when you tap it?

    And Defile certainly isn't closer to Path than to Disfigure on turn 8 (and apparently way closer on turns 9+ if you'd extend these lines).

    Disfigure is great in the early game. Path to Exile is great in the late game. Both can be useful in all stages of the game. Defile is...good in the mid game, but worse than Disfigure in the early game and worse than PtE (or, for better comparison, something like Go for the Throat) in the late game. And while it randomly can be very good in each stage of the game it can also be randomly utterly useless in each stage of the game. All of that of course outside of mono black, where it is a great card. That's why I wouldn't run it over Disfigure unless I wanted to support mono black.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant Archetype]] Golgari Graveyard Value
    I'm a bit surprised as the Dimir version of the 'graveyard' deck is usually just called...reanimator? Because that's what it is when you combine loot effects with reanimation spells (and big(ger) creatures).

    The graveyard value deck is a completely different deck, it's Golgari and a grindy, slow midrange value deck and not a fast combo deck like reanimator.

    I run both archetypes in my cube. Dimir reanimator has the obvious cards - loot effects in blue, reanimation spells in black and big monsters in all colors/colorless. The goal is to resurrect a fatty by turn 3 or 4 at the latest (ideally turn 2 or 3 though) and then kill your opponent with it.

    Golgari graveyard value doesn't need loot effects, it mostly runs self-mill cards such as Satyr Wayfinder, Hermit Druid, Stinkweed Imp, Grapple with the Past or Nyx Weaver. The payoff is basically free card advantage from cards like Mother Bear, Chainweb Aracnir, Roar of the Wurm or Grizzly Fate plus the added benefit of more cards to choose from with Restock/Raise Dead effects such as Baloth Null, Eternal Witness or Once and Future. And of course more targets for reanimation spells, which also work quite well in that deck. The mana advantage in green allows you to cast higher cmc cards more easily.

    It's slow and grindy, at first it's more like a defensive control deck while you try to get cards into the yard and eventually you take over the game with all the value and 'free' stuff you get.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on 2 player cube and draft method
    Also, to add my own drafting method to the list of possibilities: we usually play my 405 card cube with four players and we draft 6 packs of 15 cards. For each pack first you pick 1 and burn 1, then you pick 2 and burn 2 until only 5 cards are left, in which case you pick 2 and burn 3. That means you end up with 7 cards for your draft pool and 42 total cards once all 6 packs have been drafted.

    The first pick 1 burn 1 is to prevent lucky people from picking too many highest power level cards (eg if you have Control Magic and Flametongue Kavu in a new pack you can't pick them both) and to control power level a bit as you can burn powerful cards before your opponent can get them.

    I generally like hate/burn draft as it further controls the outcome of the draft and amount of removal. If you play an aggro token deck you will burn every kind of mass removal or pinger you see. If you play a ramp deck you will burn unconditional spot removal. And so on.

    In our case we draft 360 of 405 cards, which gives us a bit of variance, but it still allows drafting archetypes. In your case you'd draft 180 of 200 cards, which would also be great. I can only recommend it. And once you know all the cards it doesn't take that long either.

    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on 2 player cube and draft method
    Quote from Eldamir »

    Agreed. I've seen users comment that Leelue tries to have an even power level in his cube. If we assume that is the case, it proves that in a powered peasant cube environment, green is the worst colour as he has cut powerful cards from all other colours:
    [/card]

    Green
    None?

    As I run most of these in a 200 card cube, it's not surprising that W and B might be the strongest colours.


    Almost all of these cards are removal, so while obviously it's a bit about power level it's more about the power of removal and not overall card power. I don't run Sol Ring, Skullclamp, Loxodon Warhammer, Curse of Predation and a lot of other cards for power level reasons, but I like fast removal and I don't mind a resonable 2 for 1 removal either. I haven't seen someone win solely or mainly because he had Swords to Plowshares or Go for the Throat.

    Removal can be problematic if there is too much quantity, but if your cube is properly balanced around it (higher cmc creatures with either strong etb effects or resilience) it's not a problem if there is only quality removal. Even in low powered (compared to CU/be) limited environments we get cards like Cast Down or Go for the Throat - but at uncommon, not at common.

    Looking at your specific cube I can say there is way too much removal. You run almost the same amount of removal as I do and my cube has 405 cards. This is where many people go wrong at first, especially in CU/be, where a lot of high quality cards are removal. I know I did this. It leads to games where player A plays a creature, player B kills it, player A plays another one, player B kills it again and so on and then player B wins because he plays a 2 for 1 eventually. But if that's how your cube plays depowering removal doesn't make games more exciting or less one-sided.

    If you allow people to fill half their deck with Go for the Throat, Doom Blade, Cast Down, Fatal Push and everything else there is then aggressive and generally creature based decks will have a hard time. But if your opponent only has 3-4 removal spells in his decks, only draws 1-2 during a game and then has to decide whether he wants to remove your Llanowar Elf now or your Arborback Stomper later then green decks don't have a problem and then Swords to Plowshares isn't a source of ultimate power. In fact it would be unfair if your opponent had to play crappy 3 mana sorcery speed removal instead.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    I agree with Arbor, for me being better late game (and often only very late game) doesn't make up for the lack of reliability in the early game when we talk about a one mana spell. I generally dislike spells that have a random factor to them and avoid them if possible. If I had to choose between Defile and Disfigure I'd always take Disfigure unless I had a mono black deck.

    This is also why I cut Darkblast. It can be devastating against the right deck, but sometimes it's just trash. The graveyard matters support (and I support that archetype) doesn't make up for that kind of randomness.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
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