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  • posted a message on Zendikar Rising for Peasant Cube
    I wouldn't say either card is better than the other, they're just different. Sunset Pyramid gives a lot more value than Spare Supplies in the long run, but I also agree that not getting anything for the initial investment of two mana at sorcery speed can be problematic. It's much more realistic to play Spare Supplies early in a CU/be game than Sunset Pyramid. Don't think flicker/bounce matters much for non-creature permanents though as only very few cards can do that.

    Personally I wouldn't play either. Think Twice didn't impress me and that's certainly better than both of these cards. Sure, it's blue, but I'm not that desperate for card advantage in other colors.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Zendikar Rising for Peasant Cube
    Somehow completely missed Akoum Hellhound. Red has a shortage of good aggro one drops and while Steppe Lynx may not be good enough for white it doesn't have that much competition in red. Will most likely find room for it.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Zendikar Rising for Peasant Cube
    The only card I will certainly add from this set is Fearless Fledgling because I have enough room in white and because I'm quite sure it will be an awesome card if played on curve, similar to Experiment One and in many cases even better than that. Natural +1/+1 counters support in white isn't bad either.

    Bubble Snare is efficient and very playable, but I simply don't look for removal in blue.

    Windrider Wizard is a nice flyer, but there are so many good 3 cmc creatures with evasion in blue that it won't make the cut.

    Bala Ged Recovery is probably the best of the modal lands. If it wasn't a flip card I'd maybe, just maybe consider it. A problem I often run into with green decks is that if you run Arbor Elf and/or Utopia Sprawl it's hard to get the critical amount of forests into the deck if you run a lot of ramp cards and thus only run 14-16 lands total. So a non-forest is always a bit less useful than a non-basic is in other colors.

    Akoum Warrior isn't super terrible, but the only reason I still run Ghitu Encampment is because it fills a role in the sweeper control deck where you play it early and then deal a few points of damage every once in a while with in-built protection against sorcery speed removal. Akoum Warrior doesn't offer anything in that regard and from my pov it's just a very mediocre and boring midrange only card.

    Malakir Rebirth doesn't look exciting to me. Etb tapped lands are a no-go in aggro decks and >50% of decks that want Undying Evil are aggro. Plus if you have a deck full of creatures and don't need Undying Evil you're winning anyway, so I'd rather take the +1/+1 bonus than a mostly useless land mode.

    Bloodchief's Thirst isn't bad, but overall it's worse than a lot of other black removal from my pov. Plus I don't run any Planeswalkers, so that part is just flavor text for me.

    Skyclave Geopede isn't bad, but at 3 mana in an aggro deck it may be a problem a bit too often to attack as a 5/3 even if played on curve. Still, I like it and would give it a try if there was a shortage of red aggro creatures.

    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    A question I think I know the answer to, but just asking some more experienced cubers - are 2 drops with a 2 pip color cost (eg WW) basically a no go due to mana difficulties? The only three I see in the cubetutor average 720 are Consul's Lieutenant, Gifted Aetherborn, and Strangleroot Geist. What turn do you usually find yourself able to put these down?


    For aggressive cards cc costs are a no-go in my cube since you can only reliably cast them on curve in a mono color deck. I cut everything including Consul's Lieutenant because of it. It's a powerful two drop on paper, but he's not that good if you can't cast him before turn 5+ in many games and never get a chance to make him renowned.

    It's slightly different for a cards like Gifted Aetherborn or his big brother Vampire Nighthawk since they are still useful later on, but even for these cards it's not ideal since I when I build my deck I can't treat them like a two or three drop in most cases. That's why I like to have as few cc or 1cc cost cards as possible.

    If you want to know about chances read the manamath article in Leelue's signature. It will show you how difficult it really is to cast a card like Consul's Lieutenant or even a 1cc card like Vampire Nighthawk reliably on curve.

    It also depends a lot on your mana fixing what is reasonable. If you break peasant or regular cube rules it can help (and I do that already), but with a strictly peasant singleton land section it's out of question to reliably cast these cards on curve.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Zendikar Rising for Peasant Cube
    Quote from Tradeskid »
    Wow, I might be in the minority here, but I am loving these DFCs. For example Spikefield Hazard is better flood protection than a basic land would be, no matter how poor of a floor it may have. I think many people are looking at cards like Bala Ged Recovery and making unfair comparisons to Regrowth, because it's not competing for a spell slot in your deck at all. Bala Ged Recovery is going to count towards your 17 lands when you're drafting, not as a spell, and because of this you get to play more spells. The opportunity cost is almost 0, and the ceiling is huge, because of your deck is getting to play more spells than an opponent's whose deck does not contain these DFCs. And again, it costs you virtually nothing to unlock that potential, you simply play a tapped land instead of a Basic Forest. All told these DFCs are more reliable and consistent than cycling to find a land, and their effects are potentially insanely powerful as they allow you to play more spells than your opponents who do not play them. As Leelue said: Akoum Warrior effectively has 'cycling for Akoum Teeth', and that similar enough to how Striped Riverwinder plays out in the early game a large portion of the time.


    There are already plenty of etb tapped basics with upside and yet hardly any of them get played. There are two problems with these cards.

    First off they cost you a precious cube slot for a card that has a very minor effect on the game. An overcosted Regrowth that is nothing but a bad basic land in at least 50% of games? There are simply better and more interesting cards you can fill your cube with.

    Secondly you underestimate the opportunity cost of playing an etb tapped basic a lot. If you play anything but a mono color deck you will most likely already play some etb tapped lands to fix your mana. Adding an etb tapped basic land on top of that just for a little upside will often cost you half a turn or even a full turn in the early game if you draw and need that land. The upside has to be very much worth it or you're not making your deck better with it. And for an aggro deck it's pretty much out of question to play such a land anyway.

    Regarding the new lands I think their biggest downside is that they're either or. If you draw them early they're a lot worse than a basic land. And they never give you any upside in that case. They don't fix your mana and they don't have any additional effect in the late game like the Dominaria memorial lands. Sure, the Regrowth effect for example is an ok effect even for three mana, but the cost of running it is a lot higher than just one additional mana.

    I would play Memorial to Unity over Bala Ged Recovery and I never considered running it at all. And Spikefield Hazard is just a terrible card. An etb tapped land in red has to offer more than that, much more. I would have removed Ghitu Encampment from my cube already if red wasn't such a shallow color and that is so much better than Spikefield Hazard.

    And how much impact will Skyclave Cleric have in the late game? And how often will Skyclave Basilica prevent you from playing a card like Lone Missionary on turn 2 where it can still have an impact as a blocker against aggro?

    I'm not saying all of these cards are unplayable, but some are and the ones that aren't are they're certainly lower tier cards for CU/be at best.

    Also, Akoum Warrior (as a creature) is a lot worse than Striped Riverwinder and while cycling may be a bit worse than an etb tapped basic when you desperately need a land it is vastly superior in any other situation, plus I heard getting Riverwinder into the yard early can have upside at times. I at least would be much more inclined to play Akoum Warrior if he had cycling R.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Zendikar Rising for Peasant Cube
    Quote from Eldamir »

    Do we have enchantment removal in black? I think it's unfair to compare it to creature removal. In my cube it is close to a dissenchant/naturalize, with a second mode being able to kill any creature in play (given enough life). I think this might be the best enchantment removal spell outside of green/white?


    Enchantment removal is so narrow I highly doubt it can make up for the really bad creature removal part of the spell. Just like most removal Feed the Swarm is still a playable card, but I believe it's fair to say that you'd only run it if you wanted to depower your removal as I'd pick Go for the Throat/Cast Down/Ultimate Price over this every single time during a draft. It's not Incinerate vs Abrade, where Abrade can actually be the better choice for a control or midrange deck.

    And from my experience it's a fallacy to believe you can play with powerful enchantments just because you have a few enchantment removal spells in your cube. Either you are ok with enchantments that can take over the game on their own or you are not ok with it, but trying to balance these cards with more enchantment removal and enchantment removal in every color is a futile effort. Been there, done that. Or in other words whether black has enchantment removal or not doesn't matter.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Zendikar Rising for Peasant Cube
    Quote from user-23643864 »
    What do you think about Cinderclasm and Roil Eruption, specially about this last one?

    I have good and bad feelings with it. I like it but it could be it's expensive, or slow... I don't know if it's worth to include it.


    I believe the double red mana cost for a kicked Cinderclasm is more often a problem than it is an upside to be able to cast a weaker version for 2 mana. I'd rather play a card like Flame Sweep if I wanted another one of these effects after Pyroclasm.

    Roil Eruption is a Volcanic Hammer with upside. I wouldn't run it in a small cube, but at your size it may be worth it. If you play aggro 2 additional damage can make all the difference if you need to finish your opponent after running out of other means to defeat him. If you play control the spell doesn't become useless in the late(r) game against aggro finishers or midrange creatures. Sorcery speed is obviously a downside, but since you run both Searing Spear and Lightning Strike I would consider replacing one of them with Roil Eruption. You can't really do anything wrong as even Volcanic Hammer would be a playable card in a CU/be environment and it's certainly more fun than having two cards that do exactly the same.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Zendikar Rising for Peasant Cube
    Quote from Leelue »


    Well, the speed of the format is entirely variable, so whether or not mill can get there fast enough could entirely be a matter of YMMV I assume. Ultimately, I think it's possible iceberg cancrix and hedron crab could be playable in lists where blue/x benefits from self milling, and it might not take much work for psychic spiral and one of the tutalages/this new crab to be in as a plan b win condition.


    I think you need to create a really slow cube if you want to enable a strategy that only has a chance to win if you manage to get to turn 15+ (without Psychic Spiral). Especially if it's not really a control deck, but a deck that is based on small creatures that need to stay on the board and that maybe even need to connect, such as the crabs or some of the creatures spoiled in this set.

    Psychic Spiral has always been a decent win condition for control or self-mill decks, it's just not something I want for my cube as it's a card that either does nothing or wins immediately. It's a bit like a blue Overrun, only even more all-or-nothing.

    The small mill effects (if you target the other player) often do less than nothing until you win as they can help the opponent quite a bit and do absolutely nothing for you until you win, so that is nothing I'd want to do.

    And self-mill has been a viable strategy in my cube for quite some time, but it's not powerful enough to make something like Hedron Crab worth running. And just to make Psychic Spiral or Sphinx's Tutelage (which is borderline playable at best from my pov) better is not a reason to run these minor effects either for me when there are plenty of self-mill cards that are playable on their own, such as Merfolk Looter and friends, Hermit Druid, Grapple with the Past, Nyx Weaver and some others.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Zendikar Rising for Peasant Cube
    I absolutely hate flip cards and I won't consider any of them, especially not since so far none of them really stand out.

    Kor Blademaster is nice, even though I doubt the upside over Fencing Ace will make any difference in 95% of games. But since I run Fencing Ace it's definitely in.

    I'm not convinced mill as an archetype is viable now. CU/be games are fast and it requires more than a few cards that mill 1-3 cards on average to deck your opponent.

    The party mechanic is a fun idea, but I doubt it will be fun to play during cube draft. Too annoying, too much randomness involved and too many old cards without proper creature types in my cube.

    I like Fearless Fledgling. If you play him on curve in an aggro deck the average case will be 2/2 flying on turn 3, 3/3 flying on turn 4, 3/3 on turn 5 and 4/4 flying on turn 6. That is pretty awesome for a 1c creature. And in the late(r) game (or if you get land flooded) he will become 5/5 or more also quite easily. On top of that he is another support card for the +1/+1 archetype.

    Of course he's a bad top deck and if you get mana screwed he won't make things better for you either. But if you're stuck with 2 lands you probably have other problems anyway.

    I will test him instead of Gust Walker.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Cards that haven't aged well
    The variance is low, but that shouldn't distract from how it's a Gurmag Angler with 2x the cost if you have other relevant removal targets (it's particularly funny if you have both it and Angler in play). Waker of Waves should easily win the game if you overwhelm their unconditional removal suite (which is rarely that large) with threat density / counterspells / reanimation / taking it in draft / them being in the wrong colours, but in my experience Striped Riverwinder needs the game to be basically already won to start attacking.


    The purpose of a control deck is to control the board. It doesn't mean the control deck has won already if the board on the opponent's side is empty or almost empty. And the nature of control decks is that they don't have a lot of other relevant removal targets, maybe even none at all. I would never consider a finisher without resilience for a control deck, not in my cube at least.

    For reanimator it's even more important to have resilience unless the creature can end the game with a single attack (like Artisan of Kozilek). Reanimator decks only run 4-5 reanimation targets at best, if your opponent can simply cast Go for the Throat to remove them without any effect it's a card that has no business in such a deck.

    The only deck where the whale is possibly (slightly) better than Riverwinder would be ramp, but since it's a blue card it's not a reason to run it from my pov.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Commander Legends Previews
    Oh, damn, I just created a thread the same minute you did. Do I need to call the mods to delete it?

    The green legend looks great apart from the odd looking partner clause. Turn almost any creature you cast afterwards into a removal spell for a kicker cost of 2. And a 3/4 reach isn't that bad for 3G either.

    The red one certainly isn't underpowered, but I don't think I need a 4R ramp card in red.

    EDIT: Deleted it.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [Off-Topic] P&P Community Thread
    Quote from VariSami »
    Firstly, remember that those actions have not been demanded by anyone (with the exception of axing Invoke Prejudice for a variety of reasons) and they are just companies making symbolic gestures based on their own ideas about what would be appropriate. Remember not to equate what they elect to do with the demands of the movements which prompt such actions. It's not any kind of 'new fascism' since it's not being imposed; it's just panicked attempts to try and garner sympathy with symbolic gestures, some of which are a positive if a minor one.


    Sure, it is certainly a coincidence that WotC does this now. It's a bit naive to believe that this kind of action wasn't imposed by anyone when it's obvious that this was the case, at least indirectly. There are many examples where companies didn't comply with the pc activist Internet crowd and were ripped apart on social media for it. What WotC did is not 'a panicked attempt to try and garner sympathy' (who does panic to garner sympathy anyway?), it's a panicked attempt to avoid being the target of a witch hunt by social media activists that would most likely follow if they would leave even the tiniest room to interpret any of their cards the wrong way.

    Secondly, being European, I can tell that 'gypsy' is absolutely a slur for the Roma people. It's not ridiculous just because you do not understand the reasoning. Some of those choices are arguable, for sure. But with Cleanse, for example, it's not just about 'destroy all black creatures' but also that in the context of the name of the card. You may have heard of something called 'ethnic cleansing'.


    I'm European as well and I can tell you that the word gypsy may be a controverse word, but it's definitely not a racial slur. I was born in a town where a rather large population (still a minority, but more than in other parts of my country) of Roma lives and they want to be called gypsies, they even put it on their tombstones and they're proud about it. Just because some pc people want to make you believe this is the same as the n word doesn't make it true. It's not even the same as calling native Americans Indians, simply because gypsy is how these people named themselves a few hundred years ago already - it was not a name made up by other people. There are just as many people who'd be offended if you said that 'gypsy' is an insult as there are people who do think 'gypsy' is an insult. You don't need to put that word on a Magic card, but it's certainly nothing banworthy and nothing that needs to be removed after 26 years. Even more so if you look at the art of the card that depicts romanticized, idealized versions of gypsies - certainly nothing a gypsy should be offended by.

    And your explanation for Cleanse is exactly what I'm talking about and why I say it's utterly ridiculous. If the word cleanse is bad because it's also used in the term 'ethnical cleansing' and if destroying black creatures, which are vampires, zombies and demons in Magic and not people with African origin or black skin color, isn't ok anymore then nothing is. And yes, that is absolutely true for the combination of these words because they have nothing at all to do with real life or racism and that is very obvious to anyone with the smallest grain of common sense left. Everything on this card makes 100% sense, the word cleanse is perfect to describe a white card that sweeps away all the foul, evil black creatures on the battlefield. If you see racism on this card then you see racism everywhere.

    Then of course you have a card like Crusade. Who the hell would be offended by that? You have to be completely insane to be offended by a historic event that happened almost 1000 years ago.

    Oh, and I also had to look up why Stone-Throwing Devils is offensive and of course it is just as ridiculous. It's in the same vein of 'I really, really want to find racism or cultural insensivity here when no one with common sense would see any of that' like Cleanse. I'm absolutely sure that 99.99999% of people who would see this card wouldn't see anything offensive on it or in its name if you showed it to them without any comment.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Double Masters downshifts
    Quote from JovianHomarid »
    So Isochron Scepter got a reprint, where are we on that card these days?


    When it was in my cube in half of the games it was a mediocre to bad card and in the other half it took over the game without giving my opponent a chance to interact with it at all. It's one of the artifacts/enchantments I cut for being unfun because sometimes you lose against them just because you don't draw a Reclamation Sage. I won't ever add it back.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [Off-Topic] P&P Community Thread
    Not sure if it's even allowed to discuss stuff like that here, but while browsing Legends cards on Scryfall I could possibly use for my old school Battlebox I noticed that the card Imprison got a special treatment so you could only see it after going past a 'snowflake wall' where you have to agree that it's ok to show you art that depicts racism. At first I thought this was just Scryfall being oversensitive, but it turned out it was a decision by WotC and it's the same on almost all other Magic related sites. Most major sites like Card Kingdom or TCGPlayer even refuse to sell cards that are deemed racist or cultural insensitive by WotC.

    After looking up reasons I found out that Imprison - which just shows a black guy who is imprisoned in a rather uncomfortable way, but which has no signs of racism at all unless you think a black guy who is imprisoned is automatially racist just because the person is black and not white or some kind of alien - isn't even the only card that was banned. Apart from the obvious card (Invoke Prejudice) there are ridiculous cards like Pradesh Gypsies, Stone-Throwing Devils or Crusade on the list as well. The funniest (or scariest) of them all is probably Cleanse, which was removed because...it is mass removal that removes black creatures. They just can't be serious.

    I mean, what the hell? To me this feels like a new kind of fascism. It's not much different from the idea of degenerate art they had 80 years ago. Sure, they have reasons. But they had reasons that made just as much sense back then as well. Personally I was scared when I saw this. How do you feel about it?

    Oh, and if it's not allowed to discuss this (for whatever reasons, you never know these days...) please remove.

    PS The only good thing about it is that I own a few copies of most of these cards and the price increased quite a lot, so hey.

    PPS Imprison art was done by Christopher Rush. I'm willing to take any Black Lotus you don't want in your collection anymore because it was painted by a racist. And of course because it has the word 'black' in it and you need to sacrifice it, which is obviously racism in its purest form. Also take Alpha Lightning Bolts.

    PPPS It's even more funny that they blur/hide a card like Pradesh Gypsies even though it doesn't show anything offensive and was only banned for its name, which you already know and which you can still see and read if you look the card up. Weird
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Double Masters downshifts
    Looks like Gelatinous Genesis is uncommon now. Thoughts?


    For 3 mana it's not even worth a card. For 5 mana you get a crappy version of Grizzly Fate without Threshold and Flashback. For 7 mana you finally get something that is not terrible, but that is still worse than Trostani's Summoner or the quality green 7 drops (Pelakka Wurm, Plated Crusher etc) we have. It doesn't offer enough in the 3-5 mana range to make up for the lack of power in the 7 mana range and 9+ mana doesn't happen often enough even in green.

    I assume this card may be playable in commander if you can somehow generate 9+ mana quickly (I don't play commander, so I may be completely wrong about it), but in CU/be it's just bad.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
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