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  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)

    When a Magic player opens a pack with Kjeldoran Skycaptain and One with Nothing and a bunch of pushed Arcane cards, it's like sprinkling holy water on a vampire.


    Because such a pack screams 'hey, I'm uninteractive and unfun'. If you pick an arcane card you have to mindlessly pick more arcane cards for the rest of the draft as splice onto arcane is one of the most parasitic mechanics ever invented for Magic, can't get more linear and boring than that.

    Oh, wait, apparently it can since if you want to make use of One with Nothing you have to pick exactly the cards the cube designer wanted you to pick (whatever these are...) when he put the card in or else it will be more than completely useless. If you don't draft the whole cube you may even end up with a steaming pile of garbage and can't build a working deck with your cards at all, but who cares.

    Last, but not least you could pick Kjeldoran Skycaptain. In that case you can only hope that the power level of the rest of the cube is just as low, in which case it would be the only decent card in the pack and the only one that allows you to actually pick a card of your own choice in the next pack.

    The last time I played my cube, I Winston drafted with a friend I haven't seen in a while. I drafted a deck with an Arcane Dampen Thought sub-theme. The board was at parity a few turns in, and I played my first spliced Dampen Thought and milled a Bridge From Below into my opponent's graveyard and gave my opponent 4 zombies. I tried to hold on by splicing Candle's Glow a bunch of times but I couldn't.


    Your gameplay example is about as exciting as rolling dice, but it has nothing to do with an intelligent and challenging game of Magic. You randomly mill Bridge from Below into your opponent's yard, a card that is completely impossible to set up in a cube environment, and he is lucky enough that you apparently don't run any creatures, most likely because you play the ultra linear arcane mechanic deck that was shuffled into the cube, and there is no place for creatures in that deck. At which point did you or your opponent actually do something meaningful? Maybe you think it's funny that you helped him win by accident, but...it just happened.

    Cool and surprising synergies you never really thought of happen in regular CU/bes as well, but usually they don't come out of nowhere, instead it's a mixture of skill, drafting the right cards and a bit of luck.

    Fun is purely subjective, but most of the evil Magic players who don't know what is good for the game simply want Magic games where you win by building a good, synergistic deck after picking the right cards for it out of many possible options during the draft and then playing a smart and strategical game of Magic. And not because of some weird, totally random crap that happens with cards that can only ever work as intended in constructed combo decks. That may be fun for the giggles if you are drunk, but it gets old really fast for most people.

    When you talk about the mono black cube it sounds as if you think people have problems with cubes that are different from the typcial run-off-the-mill cube (be it rare, peasant or pauper), which is absolutely not the case. There are millions of fun ways to build a cube as long as the cube is well designed. But simply shuffling a pile of random cards together because they're 'cool' doesn't cut it, at least not for the average Magic player who doesn't know what is good for the game (tm).
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)

    It's also not obvious or inherently true that Exhume only works in blue black reanimator. You only know that because you have experience with it. It seems strange to me that it would be unplayable in other color combinations if reanimator is viable in those colors. That seems like something that's specific to the cube environment.


    We are talking about a typical cube here, one that is at least similar to the average list of forum members or the average lists on cubetutor. In a specific cube environment everything can work, if 50% of the cards in your cube are enchantments you would play Mesa Enchantress without even thinking about it.

    I already mentioned that Exhume is fringe playable in GB graveyard value decks, but neither red nor green have the discard outlets for a full-blown reanimator deck. Red has exactly one great card for that (Faithless Looting), the rest is either mediocre at best and slightly parasitic by itself (like Tormenting Voice and friends) or not a very good outlet to begin with (like Burning-Fist Minotaur or Bloodrage Brawler) or even both.

    For green it's the same, but a green self-mill midrange value deck usually has some good 5-6 cmc creatures that are worth exhuming. I would still take any other reanimation spell here over Exhume and reanimation spells aren't even needed for this kind of deck. But it can end up in such a deck in some rare cases.

    But without nitpicking you can say that Exhume is only playable in UB reanimator in a typical peasant cube. Pretty sure I've never seen it getting used anywhere else either during an actual game, at least not by an experienced player.

    What I like about Exhume and the reason why I run it is that it's actually the best of the few playable reanimation spells there is for a true reanimator deck while it's (more or less, see above) unplayable anywhere else. That's how I like my parasitic cards, Exhume is invaluable if you want to support reanimator and it's just one card that does so much for the archetype without affecting your overall cube design.

    On a sidenote, Thriving Grubs is a decent card. Nothing to write home about, but it's not worse than pretty much any of the other playable red 3/2s. I had it in my cube for a short while and I know that some people with larger cubes still run it.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    Quote from OptBoy »

    By that definition, I think it's not fun at all to build a cube without parasitic cards. Parasitic cards are harder to evaluate, since you'll have to take into consideration what synergies you have and are hoping to pick up later in the draft, more so with cards that are just good regardless. I don't want my drafts turning into 'pick the best cards and win'.

    EDIT: I dislike the term 'parasitic' for these cards. Can we call them 'archetype cards' or 'archetype-specific cards'. Parasitic is a word used to discribe things like the Energy mechanic from Kaladesh, not for individual cards.


    It's a term commonly used in Magic for cards of the type described. It refers to mechanics, and cards that use these mechanics. It doesn't matter anyway how you call it, doesn't it? Does an umbrella become something else if you call it portable roof?

    No one said you can't/shouldn't have parasitic cards in your cube, but the more you add, the more linear and boring the drafting/deck building experience will naturally become. If you add too many parasitic cards it's like shuffling 10 constructed decks together and making a cube out of it. The decks that come out of that may look very smart and will have a lot of strong synergies, but in the end they always look the same and you don't really have a choice what to pick after the first 2 picks.

    Cards that are 'good regardless' actually require more and not less thinking when you draft them than parasitic/archetype cards. If you pick Exhume you will only look for UB reanimator cards afterwards and many packs will only have one card that makes sense. If you pick Incinerate instead you can still go into any direction you want with your deck and you will see a lot of cards that make sense in each pack.

    Apart from that the whole discussion was about whether parasitic cards like Exhume are playable outside of their archetypes, which they are not. That's basically the definition of parasitic, though there are of course varying degrees of parasitic. A card like Lightning Bolt is universally playable, a card like Carnophage only makes sense in a specific, but broad strategy and a card like Exhume only makes sense in a very specific deck.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Is ___________ good in Peasant?
    How do you guys feel about Skywise Teachings and Goblinslide?

    Has anyone tried Flood? That card has been very good in my main cube. It's a lot better than Thassa's Ire.

    What about Jeweled Amulet?

    I just cut Killer Bees, and I'm sad to do it. Anybody had luck with that card?


    The small chance that you'll get more than Talrand's Invocation or Hordeling Outburst out of these enchantments isn't nearly worth the (high) risk that they'll be completely useless either because you can't afford to cast a 3/4 mana do nothing enchantment or because you are in top deck mode with no cards in hand. There are far more reliable cards as payoff for spells matter decks or as control finishers and both cards are too slow for aggressive decks.

    Flood is situational and very colored mana hungry. If you have 4-6 blue mana and your opponent has no fliers it can be backbreaking, but cards like Icy Manipulator, Tumble Magnet or Pacification Array will almost always be better (and are colorless on top of that). If you want a finisher for aggressive decks play Sleep instead.

    I think there are about twenty mana rocks that are better than Jeweled Amulet, so if you ever want more than that it may be a playable option.

    Killer Bees isn't even very playable in old school, in cube it's just unbelievably bad. White has Aerial Responder, black has Vampire Nighthawk and green has...Killer Bees?

    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    Cards that don't end up in any deck outside of the specific deck they are meant for are parasitic. Exhume is clearly such a card and Radiant, Archangel is also such a card, though to a slightly lesser degree as it at least has a small chance to end up in a random midrange and/or token deck as card #23.

    You can only have so much removal. If you play cards that are worse just to make Mesa Enchantress work you already start to change your cube design just to make that one card work. And even if you do that replacing Swords and Path with Pacifism effects won't nearly be enough, you're bound to run a lot more enchantments than a typical cube would to make a card like Enchantress work.

    Ethereal Armor without other enchantments is not good enough, not even close. The problem is not that it would be unplayable garbage if it ended up in a deck, the problem is that in a typical cube it simply would never end up in a deck because without proper support it's way worse than at least 23 other cards a drafter could pick from a typical cube draft.

    This generally seems to be the problem with your approach. Of course you can lower your whole cube power level so much that Ethereal Armor on its own would be a very decent card that ends up in a deck, but I don't think that's what we talk about here. You can only have 23 nonland cards in your deck and you draft 45 cards, so the quality of a card is determined by the quality of the other cards in the cube.

    If a card always ends up on spot #24+ when you build your deck it doesn't matter that it's not 'unplayable garbage'. All that matters is that it's useless in the context of that specific cube as it simply never gets played.



    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)


    Exhume and Radiant Archangel aren't parasitic cards, they're just good/decent cards in any deck with the potential to get nuts with specific cards.

    Pacifisms and auras like Ethereal Armor or Hyena Umbra are always good. You can pile those into white and green and there you go.


    Exhume is pretty much exclusively playable in ub reanimator and maybe somtimes in gb graveyard. In any other deck the chance that it does nothing or is even actively bad for you is far too high.

    Radiant, Archangel is slightly less parasitic, but in Peasant it's simply not good enough outside of a dedicated uw skies deck. Serra Angel is mediocre at best in peasant so no one right in their mind would draft Radiant over other cards in a deck with just 4-5 other fliers unless he was absolutely desperate for card #23, which doesn't really happen very often in cube.

    If you start to put in all kind of pacifisms effects over other, better removal spells and auras (that are parasitic on their own, like Ethereal Armor) in numbers that simply aren't needed for non-enchantment decks then you do exactly what I say. You add cards that are normally not good enough and that have no/hardly any place outside of the enchantment deck just to make that one parasitic card more playable.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    The problem with a card like Mesa Enchantress is not that it's parasitic, it's that you need other parasitic cards to support it. How many enchantments in white does the typical cube have? My 420 cube has 11 (out of 66 total white cards). And that's by far the largest amount out of all colors. Now imagine that most of these enchantments are universally playable (and thus get drafted by almost anyone drafting white), what do you end up with if you draft an enchantment deck?

    Mesa Enchantress is decent if you draw 2 cards from it and it's only good if you draw 3+ cards. How many enchantments do you need in your deck to do that (again, reliably)? That's not going to happen unless you deliberately add enchantment cards that aren't good enough outside of enchantment.dec.

    I don't mind a few cards that are parasitic if they work well enough in a deck you can reasonably draft with cards that work in many different decks (such as Exhume, Favorable Winds or Radiant, Archangel), but Mesa Enchantress is certainly not one of them.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on c19 - aka what kind of busted treats are we getting this time?
    If Dauntless Bodyguard was a 1/2 he would be unplayable from my pov. While Cliffside Rescuer has a bit more upside he's similar in that regard. If I want that effect in my deck I would draft a card like Shelter or Flickering Ward instead of a bad creature version of it. I'm not saying it's unplayable, but there are more than enough 2 cmc creatures in white to choose from and this is only a mediocre option at best.

    'Hate Mirage' looks like a decent card. If you can copy creatures with decent etb effects this can be brutal. Just not sure what to cut for it.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] Peasant Charity Thread
    This thread is pretty old, but I remembered it and now I need it!

    I want to add a 2/3 Corpse Knight misprint to my cube, but apparently the misprint was only produced in the US and in the Asia/Pacific region. Here in Europe none have appeared even two weeks after the prerelease. In the US however they seem to be very common. So...does anyone have a misprint he/she would like to donate?

    I will gladly donate Peasant cards as well, I have a lot of stuff I don't need that is playable in CU/be. Nothing super expensive, but if you need something just send me a list. Of course I will donate even without getting a Corpse Knight in return!
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Why Pauper/Peasant?
    You can absolutely create a cube that plays like a peasant or even pauper cube while using rares and mythics. But it would be much harder to balance since almost no one has a cube like that and you'd have to test all the cards yourself. And you have no one to talk to and discuss with. To me that's part of the fun.

    Personally I have one rare per color in my peasant cube to fill holes I can't fill with uncommons or commons and I break the singleton rules for lands because color fixing just sucks in peasant and pauper. This still allows me to discuss new (and old) cards with other peasant cubers and I could build my initial cube from a well tested list without knowing much about CU/be.

    If you can play multiple times a week, if your cube is something you want to put a lot of work into and if you don't care much about discussing cards with other people then making a low power level (as in far from the typical powered or unpowered rare cubes) cube out of all rarities may even be better than just building a pauper or peasant cube. But for most people it's way easier and more fun to play/build in a specific already tested environment.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on [[Peasant]] The Peasant Cube Discussion Thread (C/U/)
    I did the original list and thus the thread, but all my posts were deleted when the ownership changed. I still have the 2017 versions of the lists on cubetutor if anyone wants to add them to a new thread.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Peasant Core 2020 Thread
    Quote from HaccyZ »
    For those who like to take advantage of misprints. Apparently there are Corpse Knight cards with 2/3:
    https://mobile.twitter.com/MaxPlaysMTG/status/1147178374600830977?fbclid=IwAR3OO6_HwsI4BOElbrhC2iR4wF7vjFO7XvR_PsQpAFo-Spn01gXeaEtixSw


    That's good to know, thanks! I have used misprints in the past (Alpha Orcish Artillery) and I will do it again. 2/3 isn't overpowered, just makes the Knight a bit better. Hope it won't be too hard to find such a misprint.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Peasant Core 2020 Thread
    Likely includes:

    Cryptic Caves - Great utility land for decks with low color commitment. It's also quite easy to find a spot for it in my colorless section, so I'll add this for sure.

    Ancestral Blade - Great value for token, aggro and equipment decks. White isn't overflowing with good cards either, will find room for it.

    Corpse Knight - Will test this instead of Cruel Celebrant. No life gain, but no need to sac the creatures and a better body.

    Skyknight Vanguard - I think this is undervalued around here. From my perspective this is probably the best Boros guild creature we have yet. The main body has evasion and getting a free 1/1 attacker each turn for just two mana is powerful for a weenie/token deck. I wonder what upgrade people expect to make this not 'mediocre' as they say. A 2/1 or even 2/2 body? That certainly won't happen anytime soon at uncommon.

    Honorable mentions:

    Spectral Sailor - Another Flying Men with upside. I don't see a deck that really wants this though. There are enough better options in blue now as well.

    Winged Words - A bit of build around required, but not much worse than Chart a Course I'd say. Don't need another spell like that in my 420 cube, would play in 540 or above.

    Tomebound Lich - Shadowmage Infiltrator is on average a far better card, but this is a decent option for those who don't like fear as a mechanic and/or who want a more defensive card.

    Blood for Bones - In most cases a far worse version of Victimize. It's not unplayable, but I would only play it in a really large cube.

    Cloudskin Seer - Boring, but good value. Not sure this is better than Eldrazi Skyspawner and Skyspawner is more interesting, so I guess I won't switch.

    Howling Giant - Very playable, but I like Pelakka Wurm, Sifter Wurm, Plated Crusher and Roar of the Wurm more and I only play three of those four.

    Woodland Champion - You need to play a token maker after you play this and that will only ever happen (semi) reliably in Selesnya.

    Empyrean Eagle - Best skies support card for Azorius yet imo, wish it was mono color as I don't have space in my guild section.

    Chandra, Novice Pyromancer - For some people adding Planeswalkers to their cube is understandably very tempting, but I think they get overvalued a lot here simply because there were no uncommon walkers for a long time. This is just a bad burn spell with a marginal upside.

    Brineborn Cutthroat - Decent card, but only in a deck that runs a lot of counterspells to protect and grow it. A bit too narrow for my taste.

    Audacious Thief - Imo this is a trap, most of the time it will be a Phyrexian Rager that draws the card on death instead of etb.

    Ironroot Warlord - Great card to support Selesnya midrange tokens, but currently I don't really need a card like that.

    Flame Sweep - Decent red mass removal, but will rarely be more than a Fiery Cannonade.

    Portal of Sanctuary - Crystal Shard getting nerfed a bit too much. If you could use it at instant speed I'd play it.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
  • posted a message on Peasant Core 2020 Thread
    Quote from kyledmea »
    Do you need two targets to cast Blood for Bones? If you don't, could be better than Victimize. Less setup.

    Can you bring back the creature you sacrifice?


    You don't need two targets (you actually don't need targets at all since the spell doesn't target) and yes, you can bring back the sacrificed creature.

    In a normal situation Victimize is way better though as you get 2x Zombify for 3 mana instead of 1x Zombify and 1x Raise Dead for 4 mana. There are corner cases where Blood for Bones will be better, but even though I love reanimaton spells I won't play this.

    EDIT: Ancestral Blade is pretty good. Basically a 2/2 for 2 that leaves a Leonin Scimitar behind. WIll play it.
    Posted in: Pauper & Peasant Discussion
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