MTG Salvation

Quote from JaceBluesMaster »

ice, especially for RPers. The model proved unpopular because people do not want to pay for table space. One system I have seen work in other areas is for there to be a "free space" and a "Premium space", with the premium space offering a better experience than the free space.

What was the difference between the "free" and the "premium?" Was one bare-bones, while the other had A/C or heating, free soda per hour, table mats, cushy seats, or even a "server" per se?

And those ideas weren't sarcasm, but genuine ideas I think would set them apart and be a good selling point.

FB maybe, but EBay is a bust. There hasn't been a sold copy for a few months now.

A while back I had bought at a swapmeet some sealed product, some of which was Planechase. I used some of the sealed product as prizes for sealed events among my playgroup. One of the sealed items was not given away and recently given back to me, being Planechase Strike Force, from 2009.

Does anyone see this gaining in value and becoming a sought after collectible that has more value sealed than opened up? Or should I get the most out of it, and have some cards to use/trade off from the deck it comes with?

Some things to keep in mind:
1) I don't have anything else from Planechase, so it would be only a few planes.
2) My playgroup doesn't break out alternate play styles like Planechase or the like very often.
3) If I could use it as trade-bait, it would be preferred, but trading sealed product like this is a bit more difficult than singles (to bad Puca Trade doesn't have it set up for trading older sealed product)

Any suggestions to the best ways to trade this for singles would be appreciated. A Facebook group or other means would be cool. I just do not want to half the value of the Planechase, which if trading to a business will just cut the EBay value in half.

Last thought, in the trade section of this Marketplace, do others trade for sealed product like this? How would I go about attracting attention (outside of a thread like this)? Thanks for any info.

So this has been a hot topic for about a month and a half now. Booster box distribution going to big box retailers and Rudy of Alpha Investments soaking up a lot from the current middlemen distributors and a change in where we get our boxes (Amazon now) will change the landscape.

I've been to a couple LGS's in my area and no one wants to talk about how this will affect the LGS scene. Either employees are scared or in denial that they will be affected at all.

I've been thinking a lot about what this means for the LGS. Not selling new product will have a bigger impact than many will admit, as a cornerstone of a lot of FNM's is drafts and sealed. If an LGS buys their boxes from Amazon, they'll be paying a significant amount more than they are paying now. That $12 draft, that $15 sealed event will jump to a $15 draft and $20 sealed event. And the store that gives the most incentives, will scoop up all of the players.

I know I come off as Chicken Little at times, but I do foresee some LGS's going under. This will have a two-fold affect: make the still standing LGS's overcrowded, w/ folks from the city(s) that lost an LGS coming to those that are still open and (hopefully) a rise in meetup.com groups, Facebook groups, and other gatherings for kitchen table playgroups. I can also see non-traditional geek dens (comic book shops, book stores, gaming centers (like Howie's Game Shack in Southern California) attracting Magic players.

So, are my predictions on par? Anyone have anything to add? Or am I screaming the sky is falling and the LGS will work through this? Please, share your thoughts.

Pretty cool build. Odin is known for great prop making for cons and the like.

If you know of any other Magic prop videos on Youtube, link them here for us to all enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXP1Z3vZNOA

There are other directions I haven't heard anyone really talk about (maybe hint at, but not right out mention):

1) There have been bars opening up here & there that cater to the gaming community. 21+ environment.
2) LGS's become "country clubs" for nerds, w/ monthly or yearly memberships, holding private and open events.
3) LGS's start charging at the door. Either a per night cost or by the hour.

This is always interesting... someone thinks Cauldron of Souls is going for a buy-out, lol. Might be on to something, as it is an unusual affect. Wondering if this should be taken as an omen.

Quote from R_Lancer »

I have mixed feelings on the Wizards/Amazon partnership. I feel that Wizards is trying to lock in the booster box prices because they seemed to believe that the cardshops are taking advantage of them and jacking up the price of the booster boxes, especially months later. But I do feel that the real villain is wizards for pushing booster draft mechanics for almost 15 years.

What's wrong with booster draft mechanics?

Originally, booster packs were expansions to magic entry decks. Therefore the rarity is based on the power level cards into building your deck. In the end you are getting some really good cards at all levels. Counterspell is a common because it's a card wizards believe should be easy for players to own. (if counterspell was made today, wizards would make it a rare because they don't want that many counterspells on the drafting table)


The problem with booster draft mechanics, wizards focus the rarity based on how many times the card maybe drafted on the table. The problem is that 90% of the cards are *****! Except if you are drafting. Cardshops are having a problem because when they open a booster box they have 10% marketable cards. Sure there are a few sets that seemed to push closer to 20% but it's not enough to make that awesome return. Sadly, for years cardshops believed that wizards was focused in standard, and this pushes cardshops into buying insane amount of booster boxes.

The proof that cardshops don't care about standard is the creation of mystics.

The biggest issues is mystics. Booster draft mechanics - each mystic is a bomb. In reality, only a handful of mystics are really worth playing and they end up offseting the lost value of the box. For example, Nicol Bolas, the Ravager looks like an awesome card, cool for commander, but not worth +20 dollars. If the card was a rare, it might be worth 5 dollars.

I have doubts wizards is going to change the booster draft mechanics because this is their real focus in making money.

I think a possible answer to the "only good in limited" rares is Cube drafting. I have heard of Cubes made up of some of the worst cards made.... on purpose. I am sure if some shops took their unmoving stock of draft rares, created a Cube w/ a weekly event (can also have a Pauper cube on the side), the LGSs can charge a premium with store credit as prize support that is only good for non-sealed product, a lot of that chaff will find a home.

Other options would to donate the chaff rares to non-profits & teach the next generation to play Magic. Now a new breed of players are being made, while keeping gangs, neglect & negativity as a whole away. Expand that model, donate to schools & summer programs. Now allow said shops to get a right-off & save some $$$ in their taxes.

Wizards has some opportunity to take that 90% of lameness and recycle it w/ the help of the Magic community. And a lot of those unplayable-today cards will end up in the collections of youth & teens for a long time. By the time the cards have matured w/ the kids/teens, there could very well be some value to the cards that are now collectible and old (good for set filling or trade away to the next generation).

Like I said, there are answers. There just needs to be a movement & use of stored energy to propel the chaff. Best examples: Mold Demon... one of the worst cards ever made. Now it has a $15 price tag for collectors. The only way this card will see play is in a Cube of unplayables. Other than that, set completing. Now imagine Monomania in 20+ years... Yup, probably will be a $10 card. Why? Less in circulation in NM condition. Collectors, bad card collectors, Cubes, etc... will want it. Not to mention, play styles and formats emerge, breathing new life into dead cards. Best example, the card mentioned at first posting: Smother. Amazing in Tiny Leaders.

PS - Smother is the card I should have mentioned first, lol...

And I didn't even touch down on Puca Trade, Card Sphere or TCGPlayer in general when it comes to getting your singles. My LGS's have slow moving stock... stagnant counters. One of my LGS's (I'm sure many do this actually) have a TCGPlayer account. I know this store moves a lot of their high end Legacy & Modern singles online.

Trying to compete w/ TCG prices is a downward spiral. What it boils down to is, do you mind waiting for the mail or does your instant gratification for the deck push you to buy at the LGS?

I have been putting some thought into this, this morning: Amazon selling boxes for the upper $80's/lower $90's. Let that sink in...

Good news for us as consumers, right? $25-$30 away from the OG box cost of $60 from the 90's. Feels like prices are sliding down... but the sliding is not just the prices, but potentially the whole community. I am going to point out a few things that are happening at once that feel like low blows that (may) end up being a TKO (technical knock-out).

1) Amazon selling boxes really cheap... so what about the LGS that now has to compete w/ Amazon? Maybe LGS's will take out the booster box sales out of the equation all together and start focusing on other aspects of the game that they still have control of better than Amazon: singles (sales & trades for "store credit"), Magic supplies (sleeves, play mats, dice, counters [Ultra Pro counters for tokens], glass beads, WotC official minis for tokens), supplemental products that are only available for WPN locations, running tournaments/PTQ's/PPTQ's, pre-release's, oh & outright having a physical location to play at. OK, Amazon will change their business model, but not knock them out of the ballpark.

2) The recent pro-player who announced on Reddit that they are protesting the treatment of pro-players, from the ever-shrinking prize purses, to the tougher competition, to making them take care of their own flights & room (cover your own board, WotC shouldn't pay for their food, lol), the lack of coverage (ESPN stint didn't last long, BUT Twitch can jump on this quickly if they act fast and exclusivity is an option - What, no Pay-Per-View Worlds Tournament packing bars w/ drunken gamers screaming "Tap the swamp! Tap the swamp! You have an kill card in hand!!!"

3) A great attempt (hasn't been released, so it should very well work - VERY well) at the digital market w/ Arena. So far, from what the Beta has given us, gameplay that really mocks 1-vs-1 & hopefully, other metas, like Commander, Pauper, Tiny Leaders, etc...

4) Magic the Gathering movie would take this niche market and blow it up for the masses. Will a watered down environment be a good thing or a bad thing. Should the local soccer moms gossip about who will be a better Lillian Vess, Angelina Jolie or Megan Fox? How much of the Gatewatch can be pushed in sequels? Will this tie into sets in the future? Will spoilers coming as part of the previews? A lot of marketing options here can open up. Not too sure if this can help or hinder growth.

5) Rumors (kinda hoping they are true) of a Magic the Gathering MMO. I believe this really is true, as I have seen posts on Reddit and other forums that this is in development. But will it pull real-life players away from the LGS’s and in front of their computers? Will bad translations of planes and creatures cause enough of a panic that the core player base protests? Will there be in game exclusive planeswalkers, creatures and spells that will not translate into paper Magic well? And when they find away to translate it, will it be some rare promo or give away w/ DLS?

6) Hasbro store “Masterpieces” that have a HUUUGGGEE price tag? Why not keep the Masterpieces in new sets, but theme them out, such as Pauper classics? Tiny Leader cards, like Swat that are a nickel in other formats, but a possible $3+ card in a format like this? What about Two-Headed Giant cards or Commander cards that haven't seen a reprint? All of this boils down to what can translate well. NOTE: The card that should have been mentioned instead of Swat is Smother- it's THE best kill card for TL.

7) W/ crossovers that are already being hailed as amazing, Ravnica being brought to AD&D might be “jumping the shark.” What’s next? AD&D characters and creatures becoming a plane for the next WotC Magic set? Should we have a 2 or 3 Spell Jammer set? Do we really want to build a Mindflayer tribal deck? Oh, hell yeah we do!!! But what are the long-term plans for blurring these lines? Where is the line drawn? We’ve seen the crossovers in the Un-promo cards. Looks good, on paper… but do we really need an Optimus Prime planeswalker? Will we first scream yes, then see the floodgates open up and be scared of White Knights atop My Little Ponies?

8) Let’s talk about formats and the flavor-of-the-month? Commander has opened up a lot of design space. It has kept the game afloat for about a decade. Each year we see the fruit of R&D’s labor come out, w/ the Lieutenant keyword, Partner keyword, PW’s as Commanders, cards that affect all players (not just one shots – think keyword Myriad), and 2-Headed Giant cards that help out your partner – thank you Battlebond! These formats need to keep being pushed. They stop, and popularity decreases. What about Pauper Commander? Hasn’t become a thing yet, but w/ Uncommon Legends getting recent printings, it is a possible thing. Also, support for older formats stop, like Planeschase. It’s not 100% gone, as there has not been any announcements… as new sets come out, new Planes are added to the lore for future releases. BUT, since Theros, there have been plenty of locations for a third Planeschase and nothing even hinting (no patent names, announcements at major events, no hints in articles… but then of course dropping hints so far in advance would be a PR disaster. So it is understandable why no hints have merged. WotC needs to be careful.

Let’s stop w/ those 8 avenues that may point to an extinction of Magic the Gathering.

Thoughts? Critiques? Additions? Let’s really look at the ramifications of the above changes and ponder where ths game will go on the next decade? Next quarter century?

So... still can't add singles for Guilds of Ravnica to our "Wants" list. The pre-release is in 3 days... Wonder what the delay is?...

This is an interesting thing I just noticed: only 1 version of each basic land will be in the main set. I think other variants of the lands will be in supplemental product for GRV, but when pack-cracking, you'll only get 1 of each land.

Outside of Arabian Nights, Legends, Antiquities, The Dark, Homelands and Alliances (all which had zero basic lands - except AN, which had the barely-printed Mountain), I do not think this has been done. 3 versions of each land has been the norm for quite some time.

As told, I just added the screenshots of both cards.

I really like Severed Strands. Great sacrifice outlets that has 2 additional affects: life gain and removal. Probably one of the best bangs for the (common) buck. Can't wait to put it into my Pauper Cube.

Great for a common, what can I say. But as Jshrwd put it, tough for limited.

Wondering how this can really be utilized? What do you do w/ the cards in your hand? Maybe get them out via Madness or have discard outlets to hearken back to Hellbent? Might make an attempt at a Hellbent deck w/ a little madness in it w/ this interesting enchantment. The only snag I see is 2-lands in a row (or seeing the second land that turn). If that's case, will need a black self-mill option.