Our best play is to disrupt them using discard until we can gifts. Against ramp decks like Tron and Titanshift/Scapeshift, the Abzan variants with goyfs definitely has an advantage over the more controlling shell by putting pressure down early.
Best gifts piles would be loam/crime/ghost quarter/urborg. From the sideboard, unburial terastodon is your best bet. Other SB cards include more discard, lost legacy, surgical extraction, fulminator mages, and stony silence. Either way, it's an uphill battle even postboard and we need all the luck we can get to get through their consistency.
1) I'm really not a big fan of lost legacy. Most combo decks like Titanshift and Ad Nauseam board in more 6 drops like Grave Titan/ Thragtusk to increase their threat density against more disruption heavy/ slower decks.
2) I think the surgical + Fulminator is asking for too much. Again, both Tron and Titanshift against shower archetypes board in more threats like Thragtusk to make it more difficult for you to remove all their stuff.
I strongly recommend gifts decks to have something in the main/ sideboard that can put early pressure in these scenarios. e.g. Tasigur, Goyf, Mentor, Liliana etc.
tron variants are our worst match up. 4c gets loam/crime/gq/urborg which is helpful but even that is sometimes to little to late. You can also unburial terastodon to blow up 2 tron lands and a planeswalker.
I strongly recommend people replace the mainboard Grave Titan with Dragonlord Silumgar. Dragonlord Silumgar can steal Liliana/ Karn/ Ugin if your life from the loam package/ Iona is too slow. This archetype just doesn't have good ways to deal with planeswalkers (limited pressure/ few to no counterspells).
How does this deck beat Tron? I find that matchup nearly unwinnable. We're not able to apply enough pressure, and not disruptive enough to keep them off early tron.
I've long been under the presumption that A Vision is kinda' average in this deck. I'm at 3 but I'm always wondering if I just want two. It requires a lot of time and resources to let yourself get behind and often times it makes your reactive spells unplayable when you draw them after falling behind for a few turns.
Olivia Voldaren looks out of place but it's my best card vs. Bant Eldrazi. A mix of Clique and Fulminator are the tron predators -- you don't want a bunch of either since they become redundant after the 2nd.
Slay is good vs. the uptick in Goyf decks. It's probably not necessary but it is a lot of fun. I like cantrips.
Remand is very good right now and probably under played. I'm happy with access to one copy. If you recall, they were in Chapin's original list and its insane in Snap MUs, Primetime decks, and other clunk fests.
Logic Knot is basically playable only due to *quirk* players. It's not a fundamentally good card and doesn't allow you to run multiple copies. It gets hit by the same hate that makes snap worse and also makes your snaps incidentally worse since you're often in a spot where you have to delve snapcaster "options". I keep seeing it in lists and all I can say is that you should do you but don't try and convince others that L.Knot is a playable card. The first copy is barely playable. It's sort of like Shadow of Doubt right now. I play Shadow of Doubt in grixis all the time. Should you and others play it? Probably not unless your meta is Traversing and Primetiming.
I like Fatal Push. Somewhere between 2 and 3 is right. Bolt is still a 4x.
Gearhulk is cool. You really don't need more *grind* but I'm just doing the whole "treat yo'self" thing. So it's there for tonight.
1) I would strongly recommend running countersquall over negate. The burn is very important. I find in alot of matchups, the 2 damage often shaves a turn of the clock.
2) Tasigur over Gurmag. 3 Tasigurs have been tested extensively and 3 seems to be the general norm. There is no Karakas in this format.
How do you all feel about playing a Keranos, God of Storms in the SB to add extra grindy-oomph to the midrange matches?
I think it's worse in the Cryptic Command versions, but maybe in the Blue Jund versions? Thoughts?
I feel like Keranos is good in slow metas without any Nahiri decks
does anyone else run ashiok, nightmare weaver in the side? I feel he/ she is really good vs midrange decks like the chord variants, since it allows the opportunity to exile random utility stuff and somewhat good in control mirrors, since it allows me to just straight exile cards, sometimes either milling them out or just removing answers permanently
As someone who loves Ashiok, I think the card is poorly positioned. The card dies to abrupt decay and his effect is slightly slow for such a fast format. I personally would play Painful Truths in that slot instead. Painful Truth is great against combo and control.
What you think about Goblin Dark Dwellers I'm playing two main deck
I think Dark Dwellers is a fine card. It depends more on your particular build, if you are playing visions etc. Grixis Control is quite de-centralized and you can play pretty much anything.
Lately I've found Geist of Saint Traft very awfull . I'm going to switch them for a couple of Vendilion Clique.
This weekend I will go to a 50-100 people tournament. I don't expect much Death Shadow. I think there will be many Eldrazi, Burn, BGx and Grixis, maybe Tron and big decks. What do you think about bringing this decklist? Would you change anything? Sorry for bad english.
Consider how many discard outlets our archetype has and how a lot of people are discussing alternative win cons, has anyone here tried entreat the Angels?
Does anyone have exp with Geist of Saint Traft vs Monastery Mentor vs Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver as sb for control type decks? My meta has shifted hard towards big mana thanks to fatal push and I'm retooling my list. Currently I can expect to see - eldrazi tron, ponza, grixis control, bug (evolution) control, abzan midrange and the usual 8whack / burn.
This is what I'm at currently for my list. I'm kinda thinking geist might be best b/c it's hexproof 6 damage should help me race the control decks more than ashiok, and will be more resilient to removal than monastery.
Ashiok is amazing against control decks. If blue decks are your worst problem, ashioks just destroys them. Ashioks does get shutdown by leyline of sanctity and dies to abrupt decay, (if you plan to bring her in against lantern or jund). But from my experience, she is even more frighting than Liliana against blue decks.
I haven't played mentor too much, but I see him be an absolute beating during legacy.
I think Geist of Saint traft is very bad. He gets blocked easily by tasigur and snapcaster Mage. Geist is really good for uwr burn/ uwr delver though.
I personally went for Liliana, thing in the iceand eslpeth. I find Liliana is great vs combo and control, eslpeth is a fine finisher against any slow deck and thing in the ice is great against linear strageties. I normally bring in 1 of these 3 against any deck post sideboard to diversify my angle of attack. I.e, I bring in thing in the ice against zoo to block and if my graveyard is grave hated, I use my gifts to get cantrips and flip thing in the ice as an alternative win
Just pulled through with a 5-0 finish with this at a 26 man event last tuesday. Very satisfied with the maindeck. Big changes I want to make is mostly the sideboard. I also want to drop off the Slaughter Pact, with Infect being far less prominent than expected, I'd think it'd be safe to drop it. One thing I've been loving lately is the three Knights of the Reliquary in the 75 plus some number of Retreats in the sideboard for a potential combo kill against decks where Iona/Elesh don't cut it (Tron/Eldrazi).
Being able to go Gifts into Knight/Witness/Revival/Retreat or just tutoring up for whichever piece you need is huge.
Biggest problem with the deck right now is I'm always stuck building at 61 cards in the maindeck ahahah.
Trick: you can still remand targeting an uncounterable creature to draw a card.
I haven;t played this matchup too much, but I think it involves around sticking a wurmcoil engine and protecting it with Chalice of the Void or SpellSkite
I'll be going to Grand Prix Brisbane next weekend and am close to settling on a list, this being the current iteration. The meta will be completely wide open, I have no idea what to expect, but hopefully lots of midrange and control. Being in Australia, a number of Japanese players are expected to be coming as well, if anyone has any knowledge of what the Japanese meta is currently like.
Things I'm currently not 100% on (apart from not just borrowing burn or affinity lol):
2 Treasure Mage. Not sure if I want the 2nd one. I usually play 1, but going into an unknown field, I think I want more ways to grab my finishers against specific matchups.
1 Gifts Ungiven. This currently occupies my flex slot. I was thinking a second Solemn instead, but following the logic of the 2nd treasure mage, I want more ways to find specific things.
The 2nd Solemn in the board. I really like it vs GBx, but I think I'm good enough against them postboard, and I'm a lot more scared of the fast matchups. Should probably just be an Engineered Explosives.
I've been on this deck for years now, I'm very comfortable with it, just wanted to hear some input and critiques, or at the very least questions about card choices so I can think about this list more. Just want to bounce it around before I settle.
My main way to win over Graveyard hate in the sb is playing a couple of Monastery Mentor they are great in Gifts since we play almost exclusively Sorcery Speed spells (and a pair of insane instants like abrupt decay if youre on Green), and it also triggers from planeswalkers and so on.
BTW, right now on Esper Gifts (well, I've always been on Esper Gifts).
Main deck is pretty stock with Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, Grave Titan, Tasigur, and Snapcaster as creatures, which are all pretty greedy (I love every single one of them).
But I've wanted another creature for some time that's Disruptive or Resilent like Finks or Fulminator as 1-of. Not sure if it is the best. Any other option?
I'm also on esper gifts. I love to see your list. Post sideboard. I opted for thing in the ice and elspeth depending on the matchup. How has mentor been working out for you?
I'm not sure if this is right, but I switched from Stoney silence to hurkyl's recall. I find Stoney is pretty awful on the draw against affinity and tron a lot of the times. Similarly tron decks usually board in 3-4 nature's claim to fight the card. I also find stony does almost nothing against lantern control. Does anyone else feel it is right to cut the stony for hurkyl's recAll? (I also find the card useful to recall their grafdiggers cage so i can combo that turn.)
I think Ancestral Vision makes Grixis more of a pure control deck. If you're cutting ancestral visions, it depends more on what you put in. E.g. Blue Sun's Zenith, Electrolyze, Gurmag Anguler etc.
1) I'm really not a big fan of lost legacy. Most combo decks like Titanshift and Ad Nauseam board in more 6 drops like Grave Titan/ Thragtusk to increase their threat density against more disruption heavy/ slower decks.
2) I think the surgical + Fulminator is asking for too much. Again, both Tron and Titanshift against shower archetypes board in more threats like Thragtusk to make it more difficult for you to remove all their stuff.
I strongly recommend gifts decks to have something in the main/ sideboard that can put early pressure in these scenarios. e.g. Tasigur, Goyf, Mentor, Liliana etc.
I strongly recommend people replace the mainboard Grave Titan with Dragonlord Silumgar. Dragonlord Silumgar can steal Liliana/ Karn/ Ugin if your life from the loam package/ Iona is too slow. This archetype just doesn't have good ways to deal with planeswalkers (limited pressure/ few to no counterspells).
Play Dragonlord Silumgar instead of Grave Titan
1) I would strongly recommend running countersquall over negate. The burn is very important. I find in alot of matchups, the 2 damage often shaves a turn of the clock.
2) Tasigur over Gurmag. 3 Tasigurs have been tested extensively and 3 seems to be the general norm. There is no Karakas in this format.
3) I strongly recommend 4 cryptics.
As someone who loves Ashiok, I think the card is poorly positioned. The card dies to abrupt decay and his effect is slightly slow for such a fast format. I personally would play Painful Truths in that slot instead. Painful Truth is great against combo and control.
I think Dark Dwellers is a fine card. It depends more on your particular build, if you are playing visions etc. Grixis Control is quite de-centralized and you can play pretty much anything.
I don';t know about 3 logic knots. Can the graveyard support that?
Ashiok is amazing against control decks. If blue decks are your worst problem, ashioks just destroys them. Ashioks does get shutdown by leyline of sanctity and dies to abrupt decay, (if you plan to bring her in against lantern or jund). But from my experience, she is even more frighting than Liliana against blue decks.
I haven't played mentor too much, but I see him be an absolute beating during legacy.
I think Geist of Saint traft is very bad. He gets blocked easily by tasigur and snapcaster Mage. Geist is really good for uwr burn/ uwr delver though.
I personally went for Liliana, thing in the iceand eslpeth. I find Liliana is great vs combo and control, eslpeth is a fine finisher against any slow deck and thing in the ice is great against linear strageties. I normally bring in 1 of these 3 against any deck post sideboard to diversify my angle of attack. I.e, I bring in thing in the ice against zoo to block and if my graveyard is grave hated, I use my gifts to get cantrips and flip thing in the ice as an alternative win
Do you want to create a new Primer instead of piggy backing off 4c gifts?
Slaughter pact feels a little unnecessary
I'm a bit inclined to go 3 bolts/ 2 fatal push
Trick: you can still remand targeting an uncounterable creature to draw a card.
I haven;t played this matchup too much, but I think it involves around sticking a wurmcoil engine and protecting it with Chalice of the Void or SpellSkite
No thought knot or spacial contortion?
I'm also on esper gifts. I love to see your list. Post sideboard. I opted for thing in the ice and elspeth depending on the matchup. How has mentor been working out for you?