This is a card I've seen in every cube, but I had a few drafts with him and I think I'm ready to cut him. One of the main problems is that he's very restrictive in the decks that can play him and with Portal to Phyrexia, Cityscape Leveler and Atraxa, Grand Unifier, I feel I'm really not short on Tinker/ Sneak Attack/ channel targets.
Without a cast trigger, a form of self protection or a reasonable hard cast cost etc. I feel he's really not worth it.
Minor, but worth bringing up:
- He deals Infect, which can one shot an opponent, but I've seen too many cases where the opponent can absorb 2+ damage.
- Unlike Emarkul which you can respond to the instant speed trigger, blightsteel cannot. I unfortunately seen too many case (including myself) try to instant speed reanimate Blightsteel which leads to very feel bad moments.
Does anyone want to convince me I should keep Blightsteel?
I'm leaning towards either Goryo's Vengance for Atraxa / redundancy for Instant Speed Reanimation or Victimize to help provide redundancy for creature combos assembled via survival/ fauna.
I'm contrasting your list relative to other popular cube lists, my own and the MTGO vintage cube.
You run less reanimator support than all of them and you run a cube with ~30% more cards.
You have less discard outlets, reanimator spells and top end (in L to R order).
You also have less black sweepers, which are good supplemental cards for reanimator.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's likely why reanimator is underperforming.
Top 10 recommended additions
1) Massacre Wurm
2) Makeshift Mannequin
3) Profane Tutor (storm + reanimator + creature combo)
4) The Meathook Massacre
5) Bone shards
6) The Cruelty of Gix
7) Persist
8) Unmarked Grave
9) Ashen Rider
10) Tainted Indulgence
Top 10 recommended cuts
1) Sedgemoor witch
2) Soul Shatter
3) Cut down
4) Puppeteer clique (ignore if there's a win the game combo Im missing)
5) Agadeeem's Awakening
6) Tainted pact
7) Hero's downfall
8) Shriekmaw
9) Anguished Unmaking
10) Dimir card
It's tough to support black agro, storm, creature combo AND reanimator properly.
I'm confident in the quality of the suggested additions, but not in what's best to cut.
I don't envy making cuts in black!
Thank you for a very detailed response. I really appreciate it.
I will def try to go +1 reanimation spell/ +1 discard outlet/ +1 fatty.
- Massacre Worm for Soul Shatter is a no brainer. Recommendation taken 100%
- Tainted Pact for Dragonlord Silumgar. Recommendation taken. (Silumgar is my pet card :()
- I don't think I can make another black cut, so I'm going to re-add Unburial Rites ... Yes its an old card, but 4c mana is very easy these days + providing Gifts Ungiven with a strong use outside of Past in Flames sounds like a good redundancy booster. Plus, I think having another 2 shot reanimation spell is a good add to help creature combo decks.
Plus, I've learned something recently is that secretly Balance is the best reanimation enabler if you think about it
I'm leaning towards either Goryo's Vengance for Atraxa / redundancy for Instant Speed Reanimation or Victimize to help provide redundancy for creature combos assembled via survival/ fauna.
I always liked Flash as both a discard outlet and an enabler for Worldspine Wurm. Fatty Cheat/ Reanimator decks were lacking good enablers and I felt Flash was good.
I'm not sure how I feel about all these non-intuitive rulings, but my position prior to initiative is a card with non-intuitive ruling needs to be somewhat to significantly stronger than an intuitive counterparty. I've revised this recently as I don't think this is tenable going forward.
I had the same initial reaction about this card, but my policy for any spells matter card is always wait and see.
But the reason I dismissed it outright is that UR Delver style decks are and historically have been very dominant and there had to be multiple bannings to reduce the archetype's power level. (I think its 7+ for legacy at this point between Wreen and Six, Probe, Dreadhorde, Oko, Deathrite, Cruise, Ragavan and Expressive/ Murktide are up for consideration).
I have a feel this was likely heavily tested by wizards with Legacy/ Vintage in mind and its ceiling is likely more difficult to utilize than we imagined.
However, I would love to be wrong about this. I feel this could serve as an excellent enabler for both spells matters/ storm without being parasitic.
1. I recall 2-3 years ago, people were saying that Griselbrand was an absolute mistake as he was considered the absolute best reanimation target for almost every single scenario - Show and Tell/ Sneak Attack/ Reanimation/ Instant Speed Reanimation/ Oath/ etc. But Atraxa/ Archon printed recently are not only on-par with Griselbrand, but might prove to be better. On one hand, I like how the gap between the best/ worst fatty cheat targets are closing but on the other hand, I'm getting a bit uncomfortable about these deck's power levels.
2. Conduit of Worlds/ Lands archetype has always been a player favorite, despite how weak it is to the other archetypes. I think it really needs another Stripe Mine/ Fast Bond effect to really be more viable.
3. I'll be watching Mercurial Spelldancer more closely. The unfortunate reason why I didn't add this into my cube is because any good spells matters card would probably snap Legacy/ Modern in half as UR Delver is already incredibly dominant in those formats any good UR spells matter card would essentially require a ban, as demonstrated in the past 5 years. I feel this card has most likely been extensively tested and deemed as safe by play testing, so my thoughts are wait and see.
I mentioned I was in the market for an instant speed reanimator target that isn't Griselbrand to help support "Reanimator Storm". I think this might be as close as I can get to GriselBrand.
I wouldn't have liked the card if this ult was any higher than a -7, but at 7 this looks awesome imo. Having access to random burst damage is just huge, even if it's not bigger than a +2/+2 or +3/+3 a lot of the times. With that said though, I can totally imagine this card giving a +4/+4 or +5/+5 anthem sometimes and just suddenly ending games you have no business winning, especially with the Hermits.
If you have 6 forests in your deck, you have a 76% chance of drawing it on turn 2 (required for Arbor elf). Heck if you only have 5 forests, you have a 69% probably which I would argue is passable for limited.
This is something I would like to elaborate a bit about spells matters:
The goal of spells matters in cube isn't to cast a turn 2 Young Pyromancer followed by 2 Gitaxian Probe. Its a strong play, but that's not realistic in cube and playing a Pia and Kiran Nalaar on turn 2 usually isn't the end of the world as the opponent.
My experience during brother's war was cards like Third Path Iconoclast, Wing Commando, Dwarven Forge-Chanter, Levitating Statue are ideal to play defensive with red removal/ cantrips and the goal is that the 1/1, prowess etc can trade effectively on defense while you can pull ahead with removal, card filter and occasional flyers. (You can often bluff instant speed interaction making combat more difficult for the opponent).
The last thing to keep in mind is part of the strength from cards like Thing in the Ice/ Shredder/ Young Pyromancer is the hidden information. Suppose you have a Young Pyromancer on the field and you have no instants and your opponent has a 4/4 or a 2/1. The opponent cannot see your hand and there are cases where they may choose not to attack into a potential Bolt + Token.
Similarly, I've played my share of Shredder in legacy and I've seen people remove it very proactive as they're unsure whats in my hand and how beneficial the looting would be (or how easily I can trigger it).
Also one last thing - play Roast. Yes it looks terrible, but red decks really appreciate the 5 damage.
This is a card I've seen in every cube, but I had a few drafts with him and I think I'm ready to cut him. One of the main problems is that he's very restrictive in the decks that can play him and with Portal to Phyrexia, Cityscape Leveler and Atraxa, Grand Unifier, I feel I'm really not short on Tinker/ Sneak Attack/ channel targets.
Without a cast trigger, a form of self protection or a reasonable hard cast cost etc. I feel he's really not worth it.
Minor, but worth bringing up:
- He deals Infect, which can one shot an opponent, but I've seen too many cases where the opponent can absorb 2+ damage.
- Unlike Emarkul which you can respond to the instant speed trigger, blightsteel cannot. I unfortunately seen too many case (including myself) try to instant speed reanimate Blightsteel which leads to very feel bad moments.
Does anyone want to convince me I should keep Blightsteel?
Thank you for a very detailed response. I really appreciate it.
I will def try to go +1 reanimation spell/ +1 discard outlet/ +1 fatty.
- Massacre Worm for Soul Shatter is a no brainer. Recommendation taken 100%
- Tainted Pact for Dragonlord Silumgar. Recommendation taken. (Silumgar is my pet card :()
- I don't think I can make another black cut, so I'm going to re-add Unburial Rites ... Yes its an old card, but 4c mana is very easy these days + providing Gifts Ungiven with a strong use outside of Past in Flames sounds like a good redundancy booster. Plus, I think having another 2 shot reanimation spell is a good add to help creature combo decks.
Plus, I've learned something recently is that secretly Balance is the best reanimation enabler if you think about it
- Goryo's Vengeance
- Makeshift Mannequin
- Victimize
- Dread Return
- Persist
I'm leaning towards either Goryo's Vengance for Atraxa / redundancy for Instant Speed Reanimation or Victimize to help provide redundancy for creature combos assembled via survival/ fauna.
The problem I dislike right now is a lot of cards require an entire article worth of rules to parse/ play against correctly - Initiative, Minsc and Boo, Urza's Saga etc. The case with Flash is that you actually do not get the Elesh Norn or Griselbrand Trigger if you choose not to pay for it - https://boardgames.stackexchange.com/questions/8027/will-elesh-norn-kill-creatures-if-i-dont-pay-the-extra-cost-for-flash.
I'm not sure how I feel about all these non-intuitive rulings, but my position prior to initiative is a card with non-intuitive ruling needs to be somewhat to significantly stronger than an intuitive counterparty. I've revised this recently as I don't think this is tenable going forward.
But the reason I dismissed it outright is that UR Delver style decks are and historically have been very dominant and there had to be multiple bannings to reduce the archetype's power level. (I think its 7+ for legacy at this point between Wreen and Six, Probe, Dreadhorde, Oko, Deathrite, Cruise, Ragavan and Expressive/ Murktide are up for consideration).
I have a feel this was likely heavily tested by wizards with Legacy/ Vintage in mind and its ceiling is likely more difficult to utilize than we imagined.
However, I would love to be wrong about this. I feel this could serve as an excellent enabler for both spells matters/ storm without being parasitic.
1. I recall 2-3 years ago, people were saying that Griselbrand was an absolute mistake as he was considered the absolute best reanimation target for almost every single scenario - Show and Tell/ Sneak Attack/ Reanimation/ Instant Speed Reanimation/ Oath/ etc. But Atraxa/ Archon printed recently are not only on-par with Griselbrand, but might prove to be better. On one hand, I like how the gap between the best/ worst fatty cheat targets are closing but on the other hand, I'm getting a bit uncomfortable about these deck's power levels.
2. Conduit of Worlds/ Lands archetype has always been a player favorite, despite how weak it is to the other archetypes. I think it really needs another Stripe Mine/ Fast Bond effect to really be more viable.
3. I'll be watching Mercurial Spelldancer more closely. The unfortunate reason why I didn't add this into my cube is because any good spells matters card would probably snap Legacy/ Modern in half as UR Delver is already incredibly dominant in those formats any good UR spells matter card would essentially require a ban, as demonstrated in the past 5 years. I feel this card has most likely been extensively tested and deemed as safe by play testing, so my thoughts are wait and see.
If you have 6 forests in your deck, you have a 76% chance of drawing it on turn 2 (required for Arbor elf). Heck if you only have 5 forests, you have a 69% probably which I would argue is passable for limited.
I really like Treasure map, but its more of a combo card if anything.
The goal of spells matters in cube isn't to cast a turn 2 Young Pyromancer followed by 2 Gitaxian Probe. Its a strong play, but that's not realistic in cube and playing a Pia and Kiran Nalaar on turn 2 usually isn't the end of the world as the opponent.
My experience during brother's war was cards like Third Path Iconoclast, Wing Commando, Dwarven Forge-Chanter, Levitating Statue are ideal to play defensive with red removal/ cantrips and the goal is that the 1/1, prowess etc can trade effectively on defense while you can pull ahead with removal, card filter and occasional flyers. (You can often bluff instant speed interaction making combat more difficult for the opponent).
The last thing to keep in mind is part of the strength from cards like Thing in the Ice/ Shredder/ Young Pyromancer is the hidden information. Suppose you have a Young Pyromancer on the field and you have no instants and your opponent has a 4/4 or a 2/1. The opponent cannot see your hand and there are cases where they may choose not to attack into a potential Bolt + Token.
Similarly, I've played my share of Shredder in legacy and I've seen people remove it very proactive as they're unsure whats in my hand and how beneficial the looting would be (or how easily I can trigger it).
Also one last thing - play Roast. Yes it looks terrible, but red decks really appreciate the 5 damage.