I strongly discourage people from using dice with such creatures, regardless of the kind of deck. Not only can they be confused with counters, they cause communication issues. You should be able to look at both graveyards, which must remain clear and visible with no cards piled and hidden, and keep track that way.
The kind of information you're asking about is called derived information. At regular REL (FNM and the like), this is considered the same as free information like life totals, cards in hand, etc.: things that cannot be concealed and that both players must have full transparent access to at any time. Dice are somewhat less of a problem there, but then they should be updated by both players constantly, a noticed discrepancy should be corrected immediately. At competitive and professional REL, derived information still cannot be concealed or misrepresented, but the difference is that your opponent is not obligated to help you calculate it or figure it out, if you ask, he's allowed to say "well, see my graveyard...".
The problem with such dice is that they are a representation, a constant statement. From a communication standpoint, it can get pretty blurry when it comes to determine who is making that statement, the player with the creature, or the opponent because it's his dice that he got out as a kind of note and manipulates to keep track of the opponent's creature's size, or both players. If it can be construed that you were responsible or co-responsible for the dice's state and the statement is at least partially made by you, you cannot intentionally leave it at a wrong number and try to "get" your opponent that way, making him do bad attacks and blocks based on that (if it's clear the dice were entirely his thing and he didn't ask you anything, you can say nothing and benefit from his mistake, but it's often not that clear-cut). Intentional misrepresentation of free or derived information is cheating. If the judge genuinely believes it was not intentional and really an oversight by both players, game actions such as bad attacks and blocks made based on that false info can be taken back.
As for question 2), if both genuinely thought the Goyf should die at the time, it's a game rule violation for the Goyf's controller who should have put his creature in his graveyard, and failure to maintain the game state for the player who cast Dismember (those result in Warnings at competitive and professional REL only, there are no formal warnings at regular REL). If the Dismember player knew this shouldn't have killed the Goyf, this is cheating, of course, and automatic disqualification if a judge believes it to be the case. Absent that, as for repairing the game, the judge will determine, in neutral collaboration with the players, what would be the best thing to do, it really depends on the exact situation and how much has happened since. A backup might be possible if not too many things have happened since the event, up to not casting Dismember possibly if that move was made based on information that the Goyf's controller was supposed to provide correctly and didn't, but this one aspect can be blurry and arguable, it should be determined with all aspects of the situation taken into account. But going back one full turn with decisions taken, cards drawn, etc., is sometimes not possible. In most cases, the Goyf should at least be put back on the battlefield and be considered as it never left it, unless it makes no sense because of important factors. There's rarely a perfect solution to these problems though, the judge and the two players must assess the situation and the judge must find the best solution he or she can come up with within the parameters of the tournament policy documents.
If you're interested in reading about such things directly, these said policy documents (Tournament rules, Infraction procedure guide, Judging at regular REL) are here.
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MadMageQc posted a message on Keeping Track of Goyf Power and ToughnessPosted in: Magic Rulings Archives -
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Richard Arschmann posted a message on Liliana of the Veil Killed Traditional MTG ControlTraditional control decks are dependent upon strong counterspells, and Modern is not designed with those in mind.Posted in: Modern
There's also not much incentive for control to play only 2 colors instead of 3-color. U/B has negligible upsides compared to Grixis Control, which is viable. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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This is the reason why I love this forum, we can bounce ideas off each other similar to the invertor combo. I see two approaches with this archetype:
1. Slot the 3-4 best version of this effect:
Lukka, Coppercoat Outcast
Reality Scramble
Transmogrify
and allow this to be played with cards like Oath of Druids in a planeswalker, midrange stragety
2. Add this support to allow the drafting of reanimator storm:
One idea I had a while back was to have this "reanimator storm" where the deck would use this tutors, draw (loot effects), cheat into play/ reanimate effects to get a creature like:
Nyxbloom Ancient
griselbrand
Narset, Enlightened Master
borborygmus Enraged
These effects could be used by exiling the 1-2 support support creatures (cost reducers), etc
This way the cards could be shoehorned int a storm deck where players could have multiple ways of going off
3. Adding a full blow archetype of this.
I'm against this as this would add a few too many parasitic cards into the draft.
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Rix Maadi Reveler
Fireblade Artist
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
Mayhem Devil
Judith, the Scourge Diva
Lightning Skelemental
Murderous Redcap
Falkenrath Aristocrat
What you'll notice is these creatures could as on curve Black Red aggro cards that incidentally work stronger with a sacrifice theme.
There are quite a few cards you could add:
Bloodthrone Vampire/ Nantuko Husk (These two are actually quite strong in an aristocrats shell as its all-in potential along with Blood Artist/ Judith is very difficult to deal with)
Priest of Forgotten Gods
Liliana, Heretical Healer
Woe Strider
Yawgmoth, Thran Physician
Braids, Cabal Minion
Culling the weak
Unearth
I find Black-Red Aristocrats works the best as more or less an black-red aggro shell that incidentally have go wide aristocrats synergies. I think to make this archetype successful, you should try less to aim for an sacrifice combo, but more focused aggro shell.
If you want a more complete run down on how to support a strong aristocrats archetype in your cube:
1. Rakdos Aristocrats -> Focused more towards Black- Red Aggro but incidental sacrifice synergies.
1b. Rakdos Splash Green -> Slightly more ramp focused with more go-wide synergies
2. Green- White Aristocrats -> Focused more towards melira combo (Persist + Colorless Sacrifice Outlet + Meliria/ +1/+1) and slower go-wide token.
2b. Green- White Aristocrats splash Black -> Focused more in all-in Melira/ Pod/ Recurring Nightmare Combo
3. Blue - White (Flicker) -> Focused on flicker archetype. (Not Aristocrats)
3b. Blue - White Flicker splash red -> Focused on Twin/ Kiki/ Sahelli combo (Not Aristocrats)
3c. Blue - White splash black -> Flicker deck, splashing Aristocrats for ending the game
3d. Blue - White splash green -> Bant value based flicker deck.
4. Red- Green Midrange -> Focused on midrange 2 for 1 planeswalkers/ creatures that generate tokens/ man (not aristocrats)
4b. Red - Green Midrange splash black -> Uses Red- Green to populate the board for black's scarifice.
5. Black - White Aristocrats -> Midrange Token deck that is more focused on using the Blood Artist style effects + tokens to drain the opponent (closer to what you would expect a standard aristocrats deck to be like)
Aristocrats is incredibly hard to balance out for your cube, but if you do want to support a strong aristocrats theme, I would focused on deciding how many of these 5 color pairs you would like to have.
For example, if you would like to have all of these 5 archetypes, I would recommend adding more sacrifice all in cards such as Bloodthrone Vampire/ Nantuko Husk/ westvale abbey as I find some of the more value based colors have strong synergies but lack the push to end the game.
If you like Rakdos Aristocrats, Blue White Flicker and Red- Green midrange, but not the other 2, I would recommend staying away from the persist combo all together, as the deck needs its critical mass.
The mistake I often see with designing the aristocrats archetype is the payoffs/ synergies are across all five colors and its very difficult to draft a decent aristocrats deck without going into 3-4 colors.
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Fire Prophecy
Dire Tactics
Song of Creation
some testing in addition to the cards mentioned above.
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- Triskelion seems slightly more expensive, I don't see Mishra's Workshop to help power him out quicker or Mikaeus, the Unhallowed to go infinite with (you do have Heliod)
- Golas is very strong and has a very unique effect for artifact ramp decks, based off signets and talisman (which I've noticed you don't have the full playset of Talisman)
- Hangerback walker is generally a good card for any deck.
My picks are definitely between these 3, I'm shying slightly away from Triskelion because you don't have workshop/ Mikaeus in your cube and I feel that does take some points away from a very powerful card.
Golas is traditionally a very powerful card in powered cube, but I feel lacking some of the strong land tutors such as Tolarian Academy, Strip Mine/ Wasteland etc does also take points away from Golas.
I'm definitely in favor of Hangerbak walker. I'm not that sure between Triskelion and Golas evaluate in an environment outside of a powered cube.
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White - Celestial Purge - Hoses Red and Black
Blue - Aether Gust - Hoses Red and Green (seems weak, but as a blue player, I would like this effect)
Green - Veil of Summer - Hoses Blue and Black
I'm still waiting for a good playable Red card that removes Blue- White and a good Black card that removes Green - White. (If this cycle was complete, this was be an auto include in my cube)
EDIT:
Black - Noxious Grasp - Hoses Green -White
Red - Fry - Hoses Blue- White (I don't think this is a terrific card, but the number of white planeswalkers in my cube is problematic)
But back to Veil of Summer. I think this is more of a meta game/ draft group call. I've personally played larger cube drafts where I was on a Gx ramp deck where I frustrating could not beat a Ux control deck. I think cubes are lacking efficient answers to problematic cards. I do like the efficient of color hosing cards, especially how effective these card can be against problematic planeswalkers/ spells and the number of good back and forth between games.
The other consideration is what percentage of your decks are tri color or four color. Cards such as Ancient Grudge/ Disenchant could easily played in the mainboard given the number of artifacts/ enchantments in the environment. Suppose you drafted green as a non-splash color and this card is "correct" to play mainboard 60-70% of the time, then I think this card would be okay.
(Mod - I went a bit off topic with discussing the enemy color hosers, but I feel this is should be more of a cycle discussion rather than SCD)
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What is funny is the ban always is targeted towards fast mana and free stuff. I think if there is a ban, it will be KCI
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Resonding to "Guys... I'm sorry but this makes me feel ashamed as a Magic player."
I mean this is the toxic player thread, not the nice guy thread