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  • posted a message on Drafting 18 cards per pack but no additional lands
    Yah I see your point.
    Posted in: The Cube Forum
  • posted a message on [Primer] 4C Gifts
    Hello,

    I've been fan of this deck when it was still played with DRS. Since it got banned I turned to other decks, but always came back to this archetype when brewing on paper.

    I written down so many lists, but always felt I had to cut too many important cards to stay under at 60 cards. You can play so many good cards, that it would almost feel OK to play 75 main deck and just add more copies of cards you now can play only once or twice. I think this is a big weakness of the deck. It is not streamlined like UWx, which has more alot of 4 offs and aquite lineair gamelan.

    I have read a lot of pages and I think with the amount of bolts and even gutshots in the meta, it's not profitable to play Birds. I do think it is very important to play some sort of card selection, since this deck is a control deck, but does not play cantrips like UW does. It's very possible to draw the wrong part of your deck in certain MUs and not have many ways to fix this problem since most of the time you are depending on your topdeck or gifts piles.

    I included 3 serum Visions and an Azcanta in the deck to deal with this problem. I do not know if that is sufficient, for example UW already struggles with just 4 opt. (although they lean on miracles so they need the cantrips like that, but in general, when I compare this deck with the old legacy Bug landstill Lists I used to play 10 years back, brainstorm was just so important when playing control. Scry 2 is alot if you think about it and I like to test this.

    I do like the idea of Ensnaring Bridge. I do see how this might work with Liliana (it might maybe be better to play 4 when playing bridge though, I hope to get some feedback on this). As a long time lantern player, I know the impact of bridge and like how this can win alot of games. This does mean though that play loam is in the maindeck otherwise a package doesn't work (unless you play something like noxious revival maybe, but I always loved a 1 off loam, so I really want to play this main deck).

    This more of an esper thing maybe. But I also really like thopter foundry. I play this combination in my Artifact decks with much succes and the power is not to be underestimated. Since this deck is lacking an actual wincondition (except Jace and maybe Iona beats or even lingering souls beats, although I might be mistaken here. It just feels like the opponent has to deal with 3 different threats to lock you frok an actual wincondition), this might be an interesting addition. The colors are perfect, it's just that sword of the Meek on itself is useless in a deck that does not do anything else with Artifacts. It is a great discard target for liliana and collective brutality though. I would love to discuss this engine as two one-offs in this deck. I haven't seen it in the recent lists and maybe it already proven to be not good, but anyway I'd love to hear more about it. (the life gain may also be relevant when playing fetch-shock-Thoughtseize).

    Lastly I am not a great fan of trophy. It is good against certain decks, like Tron. But in general it's a great removal with a very poor drawback, which I don't like in a deck that does not attack the mana base of the opponent full on. I would put 1 or 2 in the sideboard for the MUs in which it is needed, but don't actually feel like playing it maindeck. The only reason for me is including one for a gifts package.

    Alright, this is what I cooked up with alot of inspiration of the recent lists here in the group. Again, I haven't tested this particular list but hope to write some more test experiences later on.

    Cheers Selene



    Overall I think your list is pretty solid. I'm not certain about the gifts into life from the loan, but I do believe you need a raven's crime added into that package to fully utilize the 3 lands a turn you're getting from loam. (I also think you might want to switch the academy ruins into a ghost quarter as I believe you would require both.)

    My other complaint is snapcaster Mage. Gifts really isn't a snapcaster archetype; The deck really doesn't have the necessary number of instants/ sorceries to support snapcaster properly and the card is hit just as bad post board with the grave hate. Snapcaster's 2/1 body really isn't great in this archetype etc.

    I personally would recommend using mana dorks inside as gifts lists like your own are essentially expensive lists and turn 3 gifts into turn 4 Unburial or turn 3 Jace are pretty good.

    I believe gifts lists are best tuned when they are combo- control, as in they focus more on combo first and control if the first fails.

    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] 4C Gifts
    One of the decklists I currently testing is this:



    1) I been very happy with my 60 card main. As I explained in an earlier post, having nearly 17 discard outlets in the form of 4 Jace VP, 3 Liliana of the Veil, 4 Collective brutality, 4 Vendilion clique (I often hit myself to cycle a card) and the less efficient Nahiri allows me to play an essentially much higher curve. I mainboard Nahiri to deal with problematic enchantments and great against creature matchups. Notion thief is insane against UW and some combo matchups, I like him in the main as UW is often a problematic matchup. Thief is also pretty good against combo based decks like storm (and previously KCI) I often think of Thief and Nahiri as Gifts 5-6 in problematic matchups.

    2) I been trying several sideboard configurations and I haven't been too pleased with any of them. The most recently one I'm trying is the 2x Peer through depths. I find in combo/ race matchups, i.e. Tron, Scapeshift, Burn, Dredge, Affinity, storm, elves, infect etc is:
    1 - I'm losing quite a few matchup since I'm not drawing gifts fast enough to close out the match
    2 - My sideboard is stretched to the limit and I cannot have 3 off answers to these hyper linear archetypes
    3 - People board in hate like Rest in Peace, counter spells etc. Often I need to find my wear// tear to counter their hate pieces.

    I'm trying 2x Peer through depths and moving my sideboard to be 2off answers, i.e. surgical, flames, wear// tear, unmoored ego etc which is similar to what the rest of the meta game is doing and using the depths to dig for either the gifts ungiven to combo out the game or one of the sideboard cards to disrupt (if you have gifts). So far I think its literally insane; Its significantly improved my unfair matchips. (its also a nice card to board in for matchups like Jeskai or transformative sideboard plan of boarding out 4x gifts and boardining in removal in anticipation to hard cast Dragonlord/ Elesh as discussed in 4)

    3) I like the Hero's downfall and the dreadbore in the board as answers to Planeswalkers out of control and Phoeonix, shadow etc. The game plan against control is to find a slot to play the worm harvest and to flood the field with tokens or use the dragonlord to steal their planeswalker (less likely, but more likely in a longer drawn out game). I like hero's downfall to hit colonades or planeswalkers to buy them for a setup and its very good against Phoenix and shadow.

    4) I usually board out my gifts ungivens against matchups like Spirits, Phoenix and Shadow as I anticipate alot of disruption and I board in my post board removal and transform into more of a grixis control deck that hard casts Dragonlord or Elesh Norn as the finishers

    5) Vendilion clique is insane. 80% of the time, I'm cliquing myself to push Iona back into my deck. Having flash flyers in a deck against planeswalkers is invaluable. IF your deck is good at keeping the board on parity with fist full of removal spells, flashing in clique and trading with an attacker in an aggressive matchup is extremely good.

    I often find keeping pushing Iona/ Wurm harvest back into your deck is often better than keeping these cards in your graveyard early on; Its often eaten by grave hate.

    6) I know what you're all thinking. Wow 2x Silumgar, 2x Notion thief, 4 cliques? What happens if you draw the wrong of your deck? Aren't these essentially deck draws?

    Well the whole point of this list is to essentially max out discard/ clique outlets to 17 (4 cliques, 4 brutalities, 4 Cliques, 3 lilian and 2 Nahiri). Essentially your chances of hitting 2 discard outlet are 89% given your 7 card hand + drawing 4 cards in the game. (Nahiri is a clucky discard outlet, this number would be 83% without including her).

    Not only are your discard outlets used for push Iona, Elesh back into the deck, its used to help loot other discard outlets if you drawn too many.

    Sideboard Stragety:

    Against Grixis/ Jeskai Control. (Pure control decks) - These decks are overloaded in disruption, planeswalkers, coloade etc. You want to board out all your fatal pushes, paths (leave 1 Path for colonade), Liliana, Iona and board in 2 Dreadbore, 1 Downfall, 2 Wear // Tear ,2 K command, 2 Peer though depths and anticipate playing a longer game by using clique to ambush walkers and trade one for one and pressure their resources uses Clique + K command + Jace VP loop while threatening to cast gifts end of turn to grab the worm harvest combo.

    Against Tron, Burn, Dredge, Affinity, Titan Shift etc. (unfair decks) - Your main strategy is to board in Peer through depths (help find disruption, wear// tear to protect your combo or gifts itself), the relevant disruption, and wear and tear to your combo and essentially become an all in Ad Nauseam combo deck. (against tron, you want to try to setup a scenario where you can ideally ambush a karn liberated and exile their power plant)

    Against Jund, Abzan company, Eldrazi etc (midrange decks with some disruption)- You essentially want to be a slower combo- control deck that can win with the combo or as a control deck. You want Nahiri - K command to carry the protecting the combo (no wear // tear). Often I win these matchups 50-60% by just hard casting Silumgar or out valuing with K command if they have too much disruption.

    Against Death;s shadow, Phoenix, Infect, Humans etc (faster aggro decks with high disruption) - Your combo isn't that great against them and their post board disruption can be very high with a lot of spell pierces, Surgicals etc. You want to to essential board into a pure combo deck where you board out all 4x gifts ungivens, Iona, Wurm harvest etc and board in your removal spells and anticipate in hard casting your dragonlord or Elesh as a control finisher.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] 4C Gifts


    Going to do a quick tournament report on my Dark Jeskai Gifts deck. (4-1-1), Lost in QuarterFinals

    Round 1 (2-0) Black-Red Burn:
    - Game 1: I was on the play and kept a hand with Liliana and Gifts Ungiven. I fatal pushed his goblin guide, and Liliana into an empty board and force him to bin multiple burn spells (I top decked 3 non-land spells), eventually hit my 4th land, Gifts into Iona and named Red. This wasn't a game breaker similar to White-Red burn, but he had Bump in the night to bypass Iona naming Red
    - Game 2: Similar to game 1, I brutality away his ravenous trap and combo.

    (boarded in 2 Kolaghan's command, 2 Wear // Tear, 2 Timely Reinforcements, and 2 Nihil spellbombs - cycle or to prevent his graveyard for hitting a potential bedlam revelar.) Not much in the sideboard for this matchup, the 4 mainboard brutalities were to cover this matchup

    Round 2 (2-0) Sun and Moon:
    - Game 1: He opened with a Leyline of Sanctity. I had Vendilion Clique, Liliana of the veil, Gifts Ungiven and later drew into my one dragonlord Silumgar. I passed turn 3 with 3 mana open. He played his Nahiri, the harbringer. I flashed in my Vendilion Clique and took a chuck out of her loyalty. Then I played my Liliana of the Veil and started to tick up (discarding my dead fatal pushes). On turn 5, he had 1 card in hand. I draw my land, Liliana both player discard, in response he cast out targeting my liliana. I hard casted my Dragonlord Silumgar and stole his Nahiri and immediately used her -2 to remove the cast out from my Liliana. We went to game 2

    - Game 2: Pretty grindy, a lot of back and forth with his sideboard Rest in Peace, Baneslayers, Legion Warboss. Early in the game, he could have had the opportunity to stick an early blood moon and shut down most of my mana base, but he never drew the blood moon. He got into an early aggressive start with Legion Warboss and Simian Spirit Guide. At one point I had to K command, kill the SSG and make myself discard because I couldn't target him because of his leyline, but the early aggression mostly worn off and I over powered him with my Nahiri and Dragonlord Silumgar once the early threat game off

    (I'll finish the tournament report later)
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Voucher Drafting in Cubes
    It's more that I just want to most broken powerful cube possible; The obvious choice is to add all the moxes, powers, storm support etc.

    I kinda want the most diverse possible cube; I'm not a fan of 6-7 out of the 10 drafted decks being midrange tri color with "some" synergy.
    Posted in: The Cube Forum
  • posted a message on [540][Powered] wtwlf123's Cube
    It's more that I was hoping to be able to draft stuff like Xerox aggro, delirium/ threshold/ dredge aggro, ckmpany/ pod midrange rather than focusing more towards curve and color
    Posted in: Cube Lists
  • posted a message on [540][Powered] wtwlf123's Cube
    I've drafted your cube multiple times and I generally like the overall balance and curve (it must have taken years of tuning and I'm looking into your cube as a basis for building my cube) but I noticed a general lack in diversity among creature/ midrange archetypes.

    Is this more of a move to fit your particular play group or is supporting a more diverse creature based archetypes adds too many constraints to splashing and slotting the same cards into other strategies
    Posted in: Cube Lists
  • posted a message on Voucher Drafting in Cubes
    I'm sure that everyone at one point has thought about adding Vouchers inside Cube Drafts where you would draft something like "URZA LAND SET" and redeem an Urza's Tower, Urza's Mine and Urza's Power Plant after the draft.

    I initially disliked this idea as I felt it ruins the concept of a limited format.

    However, more recently, I noticed a complete lack of diversity among midrange archetypes in the cube as archetypes often focus on curving out and playing on color spells rather than building effective synergies. I'm currently brainstorming about the idea of adding Vouchers to help improve deck diversity:

    1) Adding 2x Voucher for Thought-knot Seer and Reality Smasher. I think these cards are absolutely amazing staples in every eternal format. To have consistent Colorless Mana for either requires around 7-8 colorless sources. Moving your archetypes towards 7-8 Colorless sources could be a slight deck building constraint for archetypes already having 3-4 colorless lands and if an individual drafted both eldrazi, they could be much better rewarded. (I could see adding an Eye of Ugin and Eldrazi temple as the third voucher and drafting these 3 together is like drafting a "combo")

    2) Voucher for 2 Card Combos:
    Myr Galvanizer + Palladium Myr
    Devoted Druid + Vizier of Remedies
    Thopter Foundry + Sword of the Meek
    Dark Depths + Thespian's Stage

    I personally would like more diversity among creature based archetypes, with more combo oriented mid-ranges that generate a combo style advantage (infinite mana) but isn't as powerful as one of the more traditional combos such as Splinter Twin.

    I've noticed midrange creature strategies such as Pod/ Company based strategies, opening with mana dorks often struggle in power cubes as mana dorks are a significant downgrades compared to moxens. I personally would like more Company style strategies to be competitive against midrange and fast combo.

    I've also found Tezzert/ Artifact decks relied too frequently on ramp with Tinker as a finisher. I'm thinking Thopter/ Sword could help diversify these fast artifact mana strageties. ?

    Dark Depths and Thespian Stage to potentially help diversify land based strategies involving turbo exploration/ ramp where its more of a hybrid between ramp 6 drops and Dark Depths?

    I'm not too crazy about adding these vouchers, but I'm feeling green or creature centric strategies are struggling somewhat against a all in combo-centric powered cube, with reanimator, sneak and show, splinter twin and storm. I'm hoping to potentially shift green's mana dorks to Boreal Druid or Magus of the Library (A card I think is severely underplayed) to have green's role to have an Eldrazi style theme or re-invigorate the company style decks in additional to the traditional ramp/ lands or Survival strategies.
    Posted in: The Cube Forum
  • posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (B&R 26/11/2018)
    Quote from Pokken »
    I think they should just ban KCI personally. The card is liable to break nonsense every time they have an artifact block.

    On the flipside Scrap Trawler is a perfectly fair card that could enable other fun designs.

    It's not like the old KCI deck really adds anything to the format; a tier 2-3 junker deck that has a tendency to take very long turns when designed optimally.

    All in all I think I'd rather see another scrap trawler deck turn up than another KCI deck Smile

    With some rationale for what Wizards will do:
    Picking from history anyway, Wizards is usually slow to ban the more recent card, so I seriously doubt Trawler gets banned.

    Prized Amalgam was the card that broke modern dredge, and yet GGT got banned.
    Deathrite Shaman was the card that broke modern Jund, and yet BBE got banned

    There are a few exceptions (dig/treasure cruise). But you can even see this with the Eye of Ugin ban - eye gets banned but the new Eldrazi were the problem (admittedly, a ban list with Eldrazi Mimic and Thought-knot seer looks weird).

    As far as I can tell Wizards will do gymnastics to avoid banning recent cards out of modern. I'd be very surprised to see a Trawler ban just on that basis.


    What is funny is the ban always is targeted towards fast mana and free stuff. I think if there is a ban, it will be KCI
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on [Primer] 4C Gifts
    I thought about emarkul, but I just don't have any room in the main for the emarkul. I could see a sencario where I cut the worm harvest for 1 Nahiri to go up to 3 and 1 emarkul either promised end or aeons torn.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on Mono Green Landfall
    The general rule of thumb for modern decks is this:

    1) You need to be able to win by turn 4 (or turn 5) Burn, Scapeshift, dredge, affinity etc
    2) You are a disruption + apply pressure deck (Jund, Humans, Spirits etc)
    3) You are a pure control deck that has a gameplan to stop everything your opponent is doing
    Posted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
  • posted a message on [POLL] What cards do you want banned or unbanned in the November 26, 2018 announcement?
    Come on people, give it up, we heard endless arguments for twin. Every ban announcement we go thorough this "which card is getting banned/ unbanned" and then poof nothing happens.

    The thing is creeping chill is not going to get a ban. I'm pretty sure dredge is a deck wizards closed monitor by just sticking any new dredge card into the archetype.

    Let's spend our time else where...
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • posted a message on Burn
    Quote from icehippo »
    With the addition of the new Assassin’s Trophy and the existing prevalence of Path to Exile, how does anybody feel about adding Shard Volley to the main deck? Since we will be getting extra lands handed to us more often now.


    From my understanding, in legacy half of the format plays wastelands. I've noticed the decks in that format do not increase their land count to mitigate wastelands (look at legaxy jund, burn, Merfolk etc).

    Therefore, my answer to this question is, I wouldn't readjust the number of lands into consideration for assassin. (The only thing I would do is maybe affinity in modern should try to play 2 basics instead of 1)
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Burn
    I don't think risk factor is a bad card to have against control decks in the sideboard if you want to try 1-2
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [GRN] [CUBE] Knight of Autumn
    Damn this is just amazing.
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
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