I've recently been losing to Titanshift 4 more times than I'd like (3 at GP Birmingham, and 1 QF of a PPTQ), so I'd like some more ideas to beat them. I had solid draws, exiled some lands but then they still have plenty of lands to Shift me. I board in Warping Wail, exile some lands but the ETB trigger of Titan combined with more lands is still enough to win.
Ulamog wins games, but no matches yet. Wurmcoil trades for Thragtusk after Reclamation Sage or Nature's Claim, of which they seem to board in enough. Judging from how those games went, Spellskite (which I cut from my list, recently) wouldn't even have saved me if it had lived. I'm on standard Gw Tron.
What to do?
-Leyline of Sanctity: Not a card I like due to its swingy nature, but hardcasting is an option for Gw so it might be feasible. Could buy some time until Ulamog takes over.
-Witchbane Orb: Same as above. Better than Leyline, against Shift. Less good against Burn.
-Crumble to Dust: Splashable on 8 sources? I've played Slaughter Games in Gr Tron years ago, so I'm not a fan of this option either.. I remember.
-Mind Slaver: Worse than an extra Ulamog, in most cases. Though it's nice to cast Shift for them, sac all their lands and inform them you were oddly enough unable to find any lands in their deck.
-Extra Ulamogs: My best idea so far.. But he's so clunky.
-Extra Warping Wails: Just run 4 and counter all their ramp, too?
Edit: -Sundering Titan: Easier to cast than Ulamog. Wins the match just as well. I like it! In what other MUs would it be good? Slightly worse than Wurmcoil against GDS. Passable against Control and Eldrazi.
Edit: -Switching to Gb Tron, and therefore adding Brutality, should help this MU tremendously of course. I'm however currently very happy with the combination of Path and Walking Ballista (yes, I run it and it's great).
I'll take any and all suggestions!
Bonus points if your idea is also good against AdNaus, against which I don't expect to continue my recent 2-0 record.
i board in 3 warping wail for ramp and scapeshift. then i have 2 needles for sakura tribe elder.
you must be mindful of your keep.. you need a turn 3-4 karn, turn 4-5 world breaker\ulamog else you lose
has anybody tried Geist of Saint Traft? I'm thinking of replacing the 4 flex slots which is occupied by Spawner/Reshaper? I was testing and now we have 2 bombs on turn 2, geist or TKS...
I also cutoff 2 talisman of progress for 2 birds to be more consistent with my curve.
since i have geist, i removed EE/Witness slots and replaced with stubborn, basically to protect geist or TKS and then smash!
im been losing a lot lately in modo because of terrible matchups (burn, D&T, storm) and i don't see a lot of our usual midrange preys, i noticed that the games i win are mostly those i have turn 3/4 tron and if not, almost 80-90% i will lose. tweaked and tested build but i guess its more on the meta and they really know how to play against us being linear in a way.
i think we need plan B or C, or maybe an early threat.
have anybody tested goyf? was thinking of thought-knot but it still expensive to cast under blood moon and goyf can provide some time to ramp to 6-7 mana. was thinking of cutting 2 relic and 2 worldbreakers for 4 goyfs.
im been losing a lot lately in modo because of terrible matchups (burn, D&T, storm) and i don't see a lot of our usual midrange preys, i noticed that the games i win are mostly those i have turn 3/4 tron and if not, almost 80-90% i will lose. tweaked and tested build but i guess its more on the meta and they really know how to play against us being linear in a way.
i think we need plan B or C, or maybe an early threat.
have anybody tested goyf? was thinking of thought-knot but it still expensive to cast under blood moon and goyf can provide some time to ramp to 6-7 mana. was thinking of cutting 2 relic and 2 worldbreakers for 4 goyfs.
Unfortunately i forgot to note down how exactly i sideboarded but i will try to put it all together as good as i can from memory.
Round 1 vs. Classic Abzan (no Shadow)
Game 1 i was on a mull to 5 with a super slow potential Tron but not knowing what my opponent was playing i decided to keep and see how it goes. He went T1 Discard, T2 Goyf, T3 Lili. After a mull to 5 there was not much i could do anymore. Got stomped by Goyfs and Rhinos.
Board: +2 Thragtusk, +1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, +1 Relic// -1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, -2 Wurmcoil Engine, -1 Pyroclasm
Game 2 i kept a solid T3 Tron hand with a Karn. He had no discard the first couple turns and i jammed Karn into Ugin which was enough for him to concede.
Game 3 was more of a battle. He had tons of discard but no gas and i had no ways to hit Tron. After i finally got to Tron i hit Kozilek in the Stirrings. Drawing 4 cards when you're in a grindy MU just feels amazing! Kozilek then beat down for 2 turns winning it for me.
Round 2 vs. WR Taxes
Game 1 my opponent started with basic Plains and passed. Already figured i was in for a Taxes MU and was pretty happy i kept a hand with Pyroclasm and Kozilek's Return. He played T2 Leonin Arbiter but had no GQ to go along with it. He then went Turn 3 Flickerwisp and T4 "big" Thalia Thalia, heretic cathar. Felt pretty amazing to cast EOT Kozilek's Return eating his whole board. Managed to stabilize easily with an Ulamog after that and he scooped it.
Game 2 he mulled to 5 trying to find some hate, got stuck on 2 lands while i jammed Karn into Ugin... Not much to say here.
Round 3 vs. Affinity
Game 1 was super weird. I was on the play and started with a Mine into Star and had to explain the cards to him. He played a Darksteel Citadel and passed. Turn 2 i cracked for green, played a Power Plant and picked up a Tower with Sylvan Scrying. He played Glimmervoid and a Steel Overseer. Then i realized he's on affinity but still super confused about the incredible slow start... In the end i took one or two hits from Overseer before i got to do my thing.
Game 2 he again kept a slow hand with no real gas for the first three turns. He played a turn 2 Ethersworn Canonist which i exiled with a turn 3 Karn. He had to sac his Glimmervoid as he had no artifacts in play anymore, that's when he conceded.
Round 4 vs. Mardu Tokens
Game 1 he was on the play, started with a Thoughtseize off a Shockland and audibly sighed when he saw Ulamog and Ugin in my hand. He took the Ugin, obviously. The next turns he played his Token Generators in Young Pyromancer and Monastery Mentor which beat me down to 4. I managed to stick an Ulamog the previous turn before i was dead on board. Drew O-Stone off the top and swung for the win.
Game 2: On the play. Well. It's still Burn. Saw no lifegain at all.
Round 6 vs. Esper Death's Shadow
Game 1: Very close game. He saw none of his big threats at all. He beat me down with some Tokens from Lingering Souls but my sweeper handled these. After that it was pretty easy beatdown.
Game 2: I was overrun by a turn 2 Angler which he rode to victory with tons of counterspell backup. Not much to do here...
Game 3: Same as Game 2, only the Angler was on Turn 3. He showed me how he boarded and he had a whole playset of Ceremonious Rejection... Jeez i start hating that card...
Round 7 vs. Scapeshift (no breach)
Game 1: I hit Turn 4 Ulamog on the play, eating 2 of his 4 Lands. Immediately conceded.
Game 2: I was sitting comfortably behind an Orbs of Warding shutting off his Valakuts with an Ulamog waiting to finish the game. I connected once and he was down to 21 cards in his library. He looked through the exiled cards saying "We can shortcut this, if there are no more outs i concede" and then he said he still had one out in the deck, a Nature's Claim. Which he drew right off the top to blow up my Orbs and then Scapeshifted. That was such a crazy game, i can't even be mad about it!
Game 3: I was on the play again and chained Turn 4 Ulamog into Turm 5 Ulamog which got the job done.
Round 8 vs Storm
Game 1: On the draw. Storm.
Board: +2 Orbs of Warding, +2 Relic, +2 Nature's Claim//-2 Pyroclasm, -2 Kozilek's Return, -2 Karn (In hindsight i should have kept in some sweepers...)
Game 2: On the play. It's still Storm. Got killed by Goblins.
Round 9 vs Grixis Delver (no shadow)
Game 1: On the play. I hit a turn 3 Karn followed by Turn 4 Ugin. He had no Mana Leak or other interaction so i got the superfriends to win the game.
Board: +1 Kozilek, +1 Relic, +1 Thragtusk//-1 Ulamog, -1 Wurmcoil, -1 World Breaker (I had no idea what to expect from his board. I decided to test my luck and wait and see if he runs Blood Moons or Crumble and then board accordingly)
Game 2: Pretty grindy game but i had answers to all his threats. In the end Kozilek drew me a bunch of cards and i managed to cast both Kozilek and Ulamog in one turn but he was already dead on board by then. Still the games were super fun because my opponent was such a great guy!
If you guys have any questions please ask
Also a huge thank you to Thenarus for his help with the list!
on storm matchups i always find bring in warping wail, it kills baral and counters past in flames.
So, after years running GR w/Groves I started playtesting a GB list. I'm testing the standard split of 3x Blooming Marsh + 1x Llanowar Wastes, and I'm running Brutality MB with Push in the SB. And I'm not happy with the Fastlands. They being ETB tapped when you have Tron out can really mess up some sequencing, in particular when you're going for a T4 O-Stone and Ugin.
With that in mind, here's a question for those of you playing a similar list: Have you tested running just Painlands instead of a Pain/Fastlands mix? I imagine Brutality MB helps offset some of the life loss from Painlands, while making Burn a lot less scary.
as you briefly touched, our bad MUs are aggro decks (combo decks as well of course but few life loss is not necessary a big thing), specially burn and affinity. Yes I tried all pain lands and yes, the conclusion is indeed painful specially when you just need 1 more life to cast ostone or ugin on turn 4. Also, when you're hand is a little clunky and you need to play stirrings turn 1 and scrying turn 2, with pain lands, you will lose 2 life which is critical to survive. The best combination based on my experience on both GW and GB variant is 2 fast lands and 1 pain land (more for the turn 4 play), also if you are gonna do a turn 4 ugin, ostone or world breaker, play the fast land on turn 3 and the last tron piece on turn 4 (adds abit of bluff that you dont have it), unless you are casting karn or wurmcoil turn 3.
The deaths shadow matchup is pretty rough. You basically need T3 Tron, with an O-stone ready to blow on T4. T4 Ugin works well, T3 Karn or Wurmcoil... Basically, if you don't have the nut-hand, you're not going to win.
I have only lost to EldraziTron once, and both games they had two TKS on the board by T3. Otherwise, the matchup feels pretty good. Gx Tron is better at assembling the UrzaLands, and Karn and O-Stone do some serious work.
Thats why its time for GW tron and paths + blessed alliance. i run 3 Path and 2 blessed alliance main
let see how the new death shadow aggro build develop but yeah that matchup is as fast as the infect but did lost a lot of steam due to the banning of gitaxian and increase of explosives SB. I will switch back to GW if they become a lot in my LGS meta.
i play turbo depths in legacy and i have 3 pithing main for wasteland and I have GQ main instead for mirror... i play blind turn 1 pithing needle naming wasteland.. which idea can be applied here, need testing for sure.
if we do this, we have to cut our GQ and replace it with another forest and mirror matches will be based on draw luck.
I once blew out a grixis player by blind naming fulminator mage G2 with a turn 1 pithing needle. He was pissed as hell.
i play turbo depths in legacy and i have 3 pithing main for wasteland and I have GQ main instead for mirror... i play blind turn 1 pithing needle naming wasteland.. which idea can be applied here, need testing for sure.
if we do this, we have to cut our GQ and replace it with another forest and mirror matches will be based on draw luck.
Ive been playing this deck for almost 2 years now and been in WMCQs, GPQs, SCG IQs, PPTQs live and a number of leagues online.. unfortunately haven't really nailed down one, some due to bad matchups in top8 and some split, 70%+ i normally make top8.
pre probe banning im consistently having losses mainly on infect and pump decks alike and burn because they are very common modo and live.. now after banning im personally having to think only how to beat burn, if i can solve that puzzle it think i can increase my winrate (i do have 3 flex spots).
i tried most sb but burn have some insane turns with GGs and Eidolons, its very hard to recover and mostly wins if they have a bad hand. swinging wurmcoil also is risky due to the deflecting palm.
im close to brining in kitchen finks or kor firewalker but yeah double color for tron is so challenging... i will try sun droplet more this next few days. has anybody tried this?
I do think that if you re afraid of burn and other aggro or combo decks you should play GB tron.
Brutality is a real all star against beurn.
Adding fatal push in the SB helps à lot too.
Brutality + Fp + thragstuk + ww + claims = gg
Agree but GB didn't work for me or not fit for me, i find push very delimiting and not really that easy to trigger revolt. Collective brutality is awesome.
Ive been playing this deck for almost 2 years now and been in WMCQs, GPQs, SCG IQs, PPTQs live and a number of leagues online.. unfortunately haven't really nailed down one, some due to bad matchups in top8 and some split, 70%+ i normally make top8.
pre probe banning im consistently having losses mainly on infect and pump decks alike and burn because they are very common modo and live.. now after banning im personally having to think only how to beat burn, if i can solve that puzzle it think i can increase my winrate (i do have 3 flex spots).
i tried most sb but burn have some insane turns with GGs and Eidolons, its very hard to recover and mostly wins if they have a bad hand. swinging wurmcoil also is risky due to the deflecting palm.
im close to brining in kitchen finks or kor firewalker but yeah double color for tron is so challenging... i will try sun droplet more this next few days. has anybody tried this?
I did a lot of testing with BGand I think GW > RG > BG mainly because of path (a couple of times push is stuck in my hand because i cant deal with the threat on board and triggering revolt is not as easy as it looks) and better SB options (RIP, alliance)..
for scapeshift decks warping wail works (counters bring to light, crumble an scapeshft).
im having success now in using 3x ghostly prison main to replace 2 planar bridge and emmy. I ran the same build during eldrazi winter. my idea is to cover the aggro decks which path or any other shenanigans we have to stay alive. it works nicely against affinity, merfolk, zoo and basically all go wide strategy.
1) i tried BG Tron for the fatal push and i really missed my path to exile. Sleeving back to GW Tron
2) I tried 3 ostone, 3 bridge, 3 fatal push (can be path ofc, but thats not the point) and 1 emmy.. removing skite, 2 relics main for the bridge.
- as expected if I have 6-8 mana available, I surely have preferred my bombs than waiting a turn to activate my bridge and exposing it to artifact hate, was only able to activate it once in 9 games (3 rounds). I'm trimming it to 2 bridge instead.
- as the meta slows down due to the bannings and upgrade of black (fatal push) we are in good position... though i still feel the meta is still fast for planar, but im keeping my hopes high.
3) im also sticking with with GW because of big creatures and RIP for GY decks.
i board in 3 warping wail for ramp and scapeshift. then i have 2 needles for sakura tribe elder.
you must be mindful of your keep.. you need a turn 3-4 karn, turn 4-5 world breaker\ulamog else you lose
I also cutoff 2 talisman of progress for 2 birds to be more consistent with my curve.
since i have geist, i removed EE/Witness slots and replaced with stubborn, basically to protect geist or TKS and then smash!
im not a fan of GB, I rather play GW. I switch GR or GW depending on the meta (aggro vs controllish/bigger threats).
so yeah as mentioned, either GOYF or TKS, but TKS still needs 4 mana and under blood moon sucks.
i think we need plan B or C, or maybe an early threat.
have anybody tested goyf? was thinking of thought-knot but it still expensive to cast under blood moon and goyf can provide some time to ramp to 6-7 mana. was thinking of cutting 2 relic and 2 worldbreakers for 4 goyfs.
on storm matchups i always find bring in warping wail, it kills baral and counters past in flames.
as you briefly touched, our bad MUs are aggro decks (combo decks as well of course but few life loss is not necessary a big thing), specially burn and affinity. Yes I tried all pain lands and yes, the conclusion is indeed painful specially when you just need 1 more life to cast ostone or ugin on turn 4. Also, when you're hand is a little clunky and you need to play stirrings turn 1 and scrying turn 2, with pain lands, you will lose 2 life which is critical to survive. The best combination based on my experience on both GW and GB variant is 2 fast lands and 1 pain land (more for the turn 4 play), also if you are gonna do a turn 4 ugin, ostone or world breaker, play the fast land on turn 3 and the last tron piece on turn 4 (adds abit of bluff that you dont have it), unless you are casting karn or wurmcoil turn 3.
im planning to play burn as a meta call (i may be wrong ofc, just my instinct says), targeting tron, eldrazi, DSA and affinity being bulk of the meta
vs tron
- searing blaze, helix
+ d.revelry, stony, path
vs eldrazi (burn mode)
- guide, swiftspear, eidolon
- ensnaring, path, d.palm, d.rev (vs chalice)
vs dsa
- searing, -2 GG
- path, d.palm, rip
vs affinty (control'ish)
- guide, swiftspear, eidolon
- ensnaring, path, d.rev, stony
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Rift Bolt
4 Boros Charm
4 Lava Spike
4 Skullcrack
4 Lightning Helix
4 Searing Blaze
3 mountain
2 sacred foundry
2 Stomping Ground
2 arid mesa
2 wooded foothills
2 bloodstained Mire
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Path to Exile
2 Deflecting Palm
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
3 Ensnaring Bridge
15 TOTAL
let see how the new death shadow aggro build develop but yeah that matchup is as fast as the infect but did lost a lot of steam due to the banning of gitaxian and increase of explosives SB. I will switch back to GW if they become a lot in my LGS meta.
i do that all the time.
if we do this, we have to cut our GQ and replace it with another forest and mirror matches will be based on draw luck.
Agree but GB didn't work for me or not fit for me, i find push very delimiting and not really that easy to trigger revolt. Collective brutality is awesome.
pre probe banning im consistently having losses mainly on infect and pump decks alike and burn because they are very common modo and live.. now after banning im personally having to think only how to beat burn, if i can solve that puzzle it think i can increase my winrate (i do have 3 flex spots).
i tried most sb but burn have some insane turns with GGs and Eidolons, its very hard to recover and mostly wins if they have a bad hand. swinging wurmcoil also is risky due to the deflecting palm.
im close to brining in kitchen finks or kor firewalker but yeah double color for tron is so challenging... i will try sun droplet more this next few days. has anybody tried this?
for scapeshift decks warping wail works (counters bring to light, crumble an scapeshft).
im having success now in using 3x ghostly prison main to replace 2 planar bridge and emmy. I ran the same build during eldrazi winter. my idea is to cover the aggro decks which path or any other shenanigans we have to stay alive. it works nicely against affinity, merfolk, zoo and basically all go wide strategy.
1) i tried BG Tron for the fatal push and i really missed my path to exile. Sleeving back to GW Tron
2) I tried 3 ostone, 3 bridge, 3 fatal push (can be path ofc, but thats not the point) and 1 emmy.. removing skite, 2 relics main for the bridge.
- as expected if I have 6-8 mana available, I surely have preferred my bombs than waiting a turn to activate my bridge and exposing it to artifact hate, was only able to activate it once in 9 games (3 rounds). I'm trimming it to 2 bridge instead.
- as the meta slows down due to the bannings and upgrade of black (fatal push) we are in good position... though i still feel the meta is still fast for planar, but im keeping my hopes high.
3) im also sticking with with GW because of big creatures and RIP for GY decks.