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  • posted a message on Read this announcement at your own risk (it involves mtg)
    Quote from GeneH »
    One question I certainly have is what reprintability these will have, at least in original form. Will they get the licenses for that? I don't think they have in other non-Hasbro owned IP, so is it therefore possible that this is their "new way" of printing another slate of Reserves? Even if later cards are allowed to duplicate functionality, if they aren't specifically worded as reskins of these previous products ala Godzilla, do we know how that will work? It's a nuanced worry, but one that I have as these come online. And this doesn't just include issues with the paper product or even Arena, but the larger milieu. If, for example, Gandalf the White or Sauron are planeswalkers as they might be expected to be, then what does that mean in an age of planeswalker focused Magic, i.e. are these now to be part of the continuing pantheon? This could become an issue if they go for a second War of the Spark kind of thing. If you don't have the rights to those planeswalkers, you either have a "hard division" going on between IP worlds or you don't. These are the issues with a shared universe.


    To answer your question re: third party IP's and reprints I'll be deffering to the contracts that the various UFS publishers made over time (including the unreleased staff cards).

    When using a third party IP the set itself can only be manufactured and distributed for a set amount of time established within the IP licensing contract. That means, once the contract ends, Wizards can't use the art, names or any references to that IP. For instance, if they had a W40k version of Naturalize with Orcish art, they could reprint Naturalize ad-infinitum, but could not use the Orcish art as it depicts a GW held property. If they made a card that was called, say, The Great Clean One with a new ability Soap Suds and a 40K style frame, they could reuse the soap suds mechanic, and any stats on the card itself, but it's art, name, and anything else 40Kish would be disallowed.

    Also, they can, as with TWD cards, make 'functional reprints' any time they want. Using this card as an example, Wizards could reprint this card when the licence deal ends... but they must change the card name, the art, and may not use 'Walker' as a creature token because 'walkers' are a 'terminological' identifier of TWD, and I'm reasonbly sure nobody is stupid enough to go to court and try to make the case that TWD's fans are unfamiliar with that term.

    This revives the argument of why doing these as seperate cards has caused debate: a reskinned version of this doesn't replace the original card, it would be playable alongside it, which obviously breaks the spirit of the game in some way (functional 8 copies/2 copies, format depending). Though, nobody seems to care that you could essentially wack 20 copies of Elvish Mystic in a deck using variants. They only seem to care when it's characters, IP's or deck types they don't personally enjoy...
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Read this announcement at your own risk (it involves mtg)
    Quote from mikeyG »
    Quote from Flamebuster »
    Quote from mikeyG »
    Quote from Flamebuster »
    Quote from Djau the Jackal »
    Super Smash Bros. was literally made from the start to be a crossover though.

    MTG was literally designed off of D&D campaigns and has heavy D&D influence especially in early sets, particularly Legends. Do you not think that perhaps MTG was meant to be a crossover-enabler for fantasy-esque settings?

    'buster


    No, and this is still a disingenuous take. The fumbling for a cohesive identity of a game in its infancy is not indicative of its identity as it coalesced over decades, which is why a lot of those early sets have direct references that feel out of place in hindsight (though how much that bothers a player is subjective). And this take also conflates influence and homage with expanding the game to include external IPs.

    Universe Beyond represents a change for the game, if the TWD Secret Lair was dipping the toe in this is a belly flop. We can all have different responses to it, but let's not pretend this is an organic change in the game or that the game was always meant for it. People can embrace the UB concept without all that.


    Your points don't make sense. First you're saying it's bad for the game to expand and evolve, particularly with IPs, yet say it's not right to assume the identity of a game from its infancy. Isn't that what you're doing? "The game shouldn't expand because that's not what it's about yet its original intent shouldn't be the basis for which the game develops and evolves."

    Make up your mind man.

    'buster


    That's not at all what I said. What I said was that the game took a few sets to really find its footing/identity but that for decades after it had established its identity and set expectations for players. And that identity was independent from IP crossovers (though MtG obviously has pulled considerable inspiration from other IPs/mythologies/pop culture/etc over the years), until recently.

    The reason I made that point was to disagree with the assertion that those early days of trial and error when it came to how the game interacts with other IPs/real world concepts can be used to justify Universe Beyond because I feel that is a weak argument. UB isn't less of a big shift for the game because Frankenstein's Monster was a card in 1995. Despite the growing pains of the early days, MtG developed an identity over decades distinctly independent of direct crossover, to the point where the obvious lifts from other IPs don't really feel like they fit in hindsight. That's the basis of my disagreement that early sets like Legends show that MtG was meant for IP crossover like UB, it's a weak and disingenuous line of reasoning. If that's not feeling clear for you, by all means let me know which aspects you need more clarity on.

    I'm not against the game expanding, far from it, I just tend to dislike expansions that feel dissonant with the core of the game. And I don't feel IP crossovers fit with that core, certainly others may.


    Since those early sets, Magic has appeared in: Multiple tactics, strategy and hack n slash video games. A magazine only cross-promotion with Yu-Gi-Oh (A gold card Dark Magician, a 'dragon' 6 star Shivan Dragon monster). Official crossover material for D&D. A series of game books (published by company who produces Queens Blade books). A staff only UFS (now AniVersus) character card. Referenced/parodied in at least two anime. A proposed & developed, ultimately unreleased board game that crossed over with the Monster In My Pocket brand. A crossbrand drinks promotion with World of Warcraft. A white dwarf only army list for Slivers...

    These are a handful of examples from around the world, across MTG's history. The only difference is this time those franchies appear in MTG card form. Which is why I find it so amusing that a tiny subset of players who've proudly pushed their IP into the frames of others are now having a major backlash that those same IPs are appearing in theirs. To say that MTG wasn't designed to facilitate crossover's is to literally ignore the patenting documents that force everyone else to pay Hasbro royalties (because most of it's mechanical fundamentals (like tapping a card to show it's used) are properiety).

    As for what is original and divergent about lifting a picture of Christoper Lambert from the movie Merlin, making a set about a Magic School with a cross promotion for that other IP (promotion abandoned eleventh hour after other IP frontperson damaged said IP), or, Magic's most iconic villian being copied from an 80's sci-fi show villian. The whole thing was always designed to be a crossover of multiple IP's, it just wasn't considered big enough by the other IPs brand managers to make it a worthwhile investment for them to grant a license to use most of the time (as opposed to Games Workshop's recent scattershot approach of licenses for everyone).

    Quote from Dontrike »
    Quote from Cranky »

    I don't understand this position. These new toys take ABSOLUTELY NOTHING away from existing players. Fun and enjoyment is not a zero-sum game.

    This likely did take away products they would otherwise enjoy though, like Planechase or other products, so that may not be necessarily true. I would much rather see parts of the game that haven't been explored, not other franchises I can explore as much as I want outside of the game, from all of it or none at all. If I wanted to play a LotR card game I would have played either of them or go off and play the MMO (Lord of the Rings Online) and there is plenty to digest about 40k, but I choose not to.


    But that makes your argument simply: It's ok to deny people product that they want to play with, as long as it's not the product 'I' want to play with.

    Also, relatively sure neither of those IP's had a card game that functioned using MTG's system... until now.

    Quote from Dontrike »
    Quote from Cranky »
    This adds something new and nice for crossover fans and fans of the other IPs, attracting new blood to the game (which is an objectively good thing).

    Are there fans of strictly crossovers? Like they don't like the two IPs separately but putting together? They enjoy crossovers in general? Also, I don't think this will bring in that much new blood, likely new cash, but not new players when looking at this that would buy less of this product.


    That your argument seemed to now imply that if you like two IP's you shouldn't want them to crossover because you can enjoy them apart is folly. If that was the case, people wouldn't be arguing since childhood about which hero/villain/characters are better across franchises, and in my experience across a breadth of media, the biggest causes of failure for established IP's are antagonizing their consumer base and/or purist consumers who bully out those newly interested for not liking 'the right part' of said media (in thie case of this thread, it seems to be obsessive with Dominaria lore, conveniently ignoring the cross-IP references in all the non-Dominaria lore). Cross IP promotion is very rarely stated as a reason for total IP failure.

    Quote from Dontrike »
    Quote from Cranky »
    Additionally, the mythos that Magic -does- have is that multiple universes exist and the player/planeswalkers pull creatures and spells through time and space to use them to do battle. Dipping into other IPs is 100% unequivocally exactly what Magic is already about, and arguments to the contrary are disingenuous and misinformed at best.

    Well that's incredibly wrong.


    No, it's not. As that's literally how WotC/Hasbro has their copyright filed. That is their literal canonical mechanics, as reiterated as recently as 2020 by marketing materials. You're now at the point of literally sitting telling us how great Magic lore is, and then telling is that the lore of Magic is 100% wrong as compared to your personal headcanon.


    Quote from Dontrike »
    Mages are not summoning Steven Universe or the Red Ranger from ever Power Rangers season they are summoning beasts/spells from what they know, usually from things they met.


    Then by your own established logic, they must of either 1) Gone to the places of residence of those other entities to meet them (within that IP), or 2) Those things came to the spellcasters residence for them to know of these other entities (within Magic IP). That means, on the weight of your own argument, the game's fundamental core is literally steeped in there being a multiverse of endless possibility.

    Quote from Dontrike »
    Kamahl summoning fire cats during Odyssey block is because he's seen them in some capacity or knows the spell to do so, but he's not calling forth Herby the car or a Shoyru Neopet.


    Thanks for reminding me, I totally forgot about the Neopets/Kellogs/Hasbro cereal crossover in the UK from when I was a wee one.

    Quote from Dontrike »
    They summon within the Magic universe or just their world, this isn't Rick & Morty or every other franchise that just has to have a multiverse right now.


    Um, except the word of God says you're wrong, as it's been established since the time of Yawgmoth and Urza that Planeswalkers are indeed summoning across time and space, and the aether fluxx itself is a name for the space between dimensions of existence. The 'planes' and 'aether flux' are themselves copyrighted as a multiverse, with those names being the IP's 'terminological names' for those phenomena. Ironically, they weren't able to establish rights to the concept of 'planeswalkers', as there was multiple IP's that already did that thing for it to become a narrative mainstay.

    In essence, planeswalking is exactly like Rick and Morty, which is why the shows creators have even taken jabs at properties such as MTG and narrative devices like The Storyteller's Convention (both in the same episode).

    Quote from Dontrike »
    Quote from andy_hall23 »
    Some of you need to analyze your thoughts about 'HATE' 'Hate' is a strong feeling and word. MLK said 'Let no man pull you low enough to hate him' Hate is what brings evil and breeds *****ty people.

    Well this is just a poor argument. "You can't use the word hate because technically...." is nothing that adds to the discussion in any way. Aw man, I can't say I hate stubbing my toe, because it's not the right use of the word. Are you kidding?


    You just spent an entire section going off at someone for using words incorrectly (despite them being entirely accurate). That sounds a lot like a case of 'pot, kettle, black' to me...

    Quote from Dontrike »
    Quote from andy_hall23 »
    Its a freaking card game. People been making 'Fake Cards' of like Superman and Wolverine and Batman for like ..years..HELL , INQUEST MAGAZINE did it themselves back in the day ..they had fake cards printed up in the back of the Magazine for years!! You can search them up and everything.

    People have also been making incredibly overpowered fake cards too, so what's your point? You admit they were fake and therefore couldn't be played with in a tournament setting (which these will be) isn't really a point in "WotC should do it" argument.


    Above bolded by me. That bolded text also indicates you've got no idea how product management and development works, because these products were part commissioned (as was the Commander products, Planechase, Battlebond, Archenemy, Secret Lair, From The Vault and every other ancillary revenue stream) based on observations of what the players were doing. The same logic that Wizards is literally explaining in their articles on the recent TSR set (the timeshifted sheet). At this point, you're literally telling the people who did the work that their wrong about their reasons for doing the work, when they're the only people who can define those reasons. Your argument is becoming more detached from observable fact and straying into trying to impose your feelings (which are clearly strong) in pace of those facts.

    Quote from Dontrike »
    Quote from andy_hall23 »
    Some people here are gonna start tweeting Maro and all the people in Magic they can ...and then they'll get blocked and think that because they got blocked or some ***** that its a 'Win'

    Yes, there are crazy people in the world no matter what fandom or corner, what's your point again?


    I'm going to put this here because I want to circle back to this later, because as someone who lives with and works with those with mental illness, I find it pretty antagonizing (and disrespectful) the attitudes that are being taken here...

    Quote from Dontrike »
    Quote from andy_hall23 »
    Sometimes ...when I was younger I always wondered why us nerds got picked on and beaten up ...the freaking way that some of you have been acting? I can see why there's a bit of that still today.

    Didn't you just say people should communicate, but now it should get you beaten? What?


    If you go around screaming in peoples faces in public, insulting them and belittling them, screaming "I was just communicating" when they retaliate will get you zero sympathy for your situation because your actions have repercussions that weasel wording will not always save you from.

    Quote from Dontrike »
    Quote from Flamebuster »

    MTG was literally designed off of D&D campaigns and has heavy D&D influence especially in early sets, particularly Legends.Do you not think that perhaps MTG was meant to be a crossover-enabler for fantasy-esque settings?

    Being inspired by something does not make a product a crossover. Hot Fuzz isn't a crossover because it was inspired by action movie cliches. D&D isn't a crossover because it was inspired by Lord of the Rings. Magic being inspired by people that played D&D makes it about as much of a crossover as I am a shoe.


    See above, as when the word of god officially lists it in it's copyrights and trademarks as a mechanical system to facilitate gameplay across multiple IP's (the same filing that has existed from origin to now), that it consistently crosses over with other IP's (self confessing you're ignoring those because you like those IP's doesn't make them less of a crossover), and directly plans crossovers with other IP's (which it's done since it's inception). The ONLY thing Wizards ever made clear wasn't part of the crossover was it's own story canon, which admittely would be terrible if they tried to canonise other IP's into their own. But they've never, not in the history of the games publication, ever said that the mechanical focus can't be crossed over into other games, other IP's or other media.

    Quote from Dontrike »
    Quote from login »
    It seems like a tantrum really, you drop your enjoyment because one addition to the game, maybe you didn't enjoy the game that much in the first place. Anyway, seems like something deeper going on, I would talk with my therapist for sure.

    So you believe someone not liking their hobby anymore because said hobby no longer matches their interests is a mental disorder that needs therapy? *deep sigh*.......What?


    Sorry, remember that part I brought up earlier I wanted to save for later...

    ... You don't get to go around using mental illness as a weapon to beat people over the head with, asserting that disagreeing with you is akin to mental illness, and then jump in to accuse those who view with disdain the anger and hatred that people are spewing out as misusing the application of mental illness. I know it's consistent with your side of the arguments 'one rule for us, another rule for everyone else' mentality that drives your sides collective consciousness, but as someone who literally lives with the feeling of reality trying to crush them from existence everyday, seeing anyone bandying around mental illness as a weapon (or ill conceived defense) is appaulling, and that behaviour will drive away new players and destroy the games enduring fandom far quicker than any disagreement over IP crossovers, favourite deck colours or favourite formats ever could.

    Argument is fine, tearing someone else apart is fine. Using the mental health of third parties is not.




    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Read this announcement at your own risk (it involves mtg)
    Quote from Jh216 »
    Quote from LeyShade »
    Quote from Jh216 »


    Exactly. The new guy, or any guy for that matter, needs to understand there is a line to be drawn as far as what we will accept Wizards of the Coast does with our game. If they decide to sell out on what the game has always been and make a flat out mockery out of it then it needs to be clear there are people who will not allow that as opposed to your sheepish conformist mentality of blindly accepting whatever WotC tells you to like. I’m free to think that is having no standard and being weak to the bone.



    As opposed to you telling us all what to like and blindly conforming to your vision... That just sounds like trading one master for another.

    I'm fine with these crossover cards. More players and diversity of interests is better for everyone. If they have their own little side-format that's fine, as that's no different to UNCommander, cEDH or Commander Draft - it's just format variance.

    Don't like the cards, don't buy them. Simple. Not scream at those, in person or online, that might be wanting to learn the mechanics of MTG through something they're already familiar with, or those who get one gifted to them by a loved one because of that other IP, or just Mr Casual, who might actually like giant IP crossovers.

    I get the purist mentality, there's nobody stopping you playing a WOTC-Only card list if you want, but nobody is entitled to give out orders on either side of the fence, and expressing someones individuality through their interests - even if that's contrary to yours - isn't 'sheepishness', it's good self-esteem.

    Now, where's my Morrigan Aensland with Vampire creature typing - I neeeeedddd thisssss....


    It is clear you don’t have a clue about what is going to happen once these cards are released.


    First off, don't talk down to me, as it's not only clear I'm your senior in terms of age, but also in terms of the game itself and its associated design.

    Quote from Jh216 »
    We are not talking about “just format variance” or little side formats or UNCommander. If that is what it was nobody would mind it. The way WotC is doing this they are forcing EVERYBODY playing Commander games to deal with this garbage because everything is thrown on the same pile. You’ll never again be able to sit down with strangers joining your game without addressing this issue.


    Which, as I correctly pointed out, is also true of cEDH, UNCommander and any other 'not to everyones taste' elements of the game. These cards are no different to any other argument, wether it be silver borders, gold borders, proxies, alternate arts or mechanical concepts like land destruction.

    That I can speak to that pattern is because I know 'exactly' how this plays out, and I'm all for more diversity and an increased player base, because hopefully it means more players celebrating their collective interests rather than self-entitled, spoilt brats trying to bully others out of enjoying a hobby.

    Quote from Jh216 »
    If people wants these other IP’s games then make games for the other IP’s. Not **** up a game that has been there for 25+ years.


    Just like the stack, removing mana burn, the introduction of Planeswalkers and ending of Extended was going to kill Magic, I find your rantings less doomsday, and more pompous grandstanding...
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Read this announcement at your own risk (it involves mtg)
    Quote from Jh216 »


    Exactly. The new guy, or any guy for that matter, needs to understand there is a line to be drawn as far as what we will accept Wizards of the Coast does with our game. If they decide to sell out on what the game has always been and make a flat out mockery out of it then it needs to be clear there are people who will not allow that as opposed to your sheepish conformist mentality of blindly accepting whatever WotC tells you to like. I’m free to think that is having no standard and being weak to the bone.



    As opposed to you telling us all what to like and blindly conforming to your vision... That just sounds like trading one master for another.

    I'm fine with these crossover cards. More players and diversity of interests is better for everyone. If they have their own little side-format that's fine, as that's no different to UNCommander, cEDH or Commander Draft - it's just format variance.

    Don't like the cards, don't buy them. Simple. Not scream at those, in person or online, that might be wanting to learn the mechanics of MTG through something they're already familiar with, or those who get one gifted to them by a loved one because of that other IP, or just Mr Casual, who might actually like giant IP crossovers.

    I get the purist mentality, there's nobody stopping you playing a WOTC-Only card list if you want, but nobody is entitled to give out orders on either side of the fence, and expressing someones individuality through their interests - even if that's contrary to yours - isn't 'sheepishness', it's good self-esteem.

    Now, where's my Morrigan Aensland with Vampire creature typing - I neeeeedddd thisssss....
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Secret Lair x The Walking Dead
    Quote from ChariSays »
    I don't think it is toxic to point out whining. I don't think it is toxic to point out entitled behaviors. Being whiny, and behaving as though you are owed things that you haven't earned? That is toxic.


    And I don't think it's toxic to call out hypocrisy or narcissism. I don't think it's toxic to raise criticisms of a design, or air distrust in the direction a product is taking. I think it's far more toxic to call people 'whiners' or 'entitled' because they aired a criticism and you took it personally (like a narcissist), with the dubious argument that someone else's criticism somehow devalued the purchase you made... which is kinda sad, if you're enjoyment of a product is based in taunting others that they don't have it.

    Don't think anybody has whined in here that they're owed anything. Most criticism is either 1) they're mechanically unique cards released on a limited timeframe, and 2) some people are skeptical about the precedent it creates regarding future IP crossovers. That you try to dismiss those criticism as 'whining' - while hypocritically sitting there whining yourself that not enough people are treating you like a celebrity because you endorse the product - is a self-defeating argument that will not earn you respect here.

    And as presented across platforms the number one reason for people being annoyed by limited time releases isn't cost, or 'not earning it', it's just being punished because your payday/rent day/whatever falls just before/after when this week-sale begins, making it a forced missed oppourtunity. Unless people are willing to make poor life/financial decisions, which tends to be a narcisisstic behaviour that leads to whining in public spaces (such as shops or forums) that not enough people are celebrating their purchase... oh, wait...
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on The Polymorph Deck
    Quote from oakcitylarry »
    Has anyone tried Yidaro, Wandering Monster?


    We don't support this archetype in the giant cube, but we do have this card. I can feedback that our experience with it as follows:

    Giant cube has it listed as a 1R Instant for slots. Functionally, the group treats it as 1R: Draw a card. If third time activating this, gain a 8/8 Trample + Haste. As a self-recurring draw spell has been the primary function of the card, which works well in almost any deck built with red. The times three trigger happens rarely, but is exceedingly fun when it does.

    It's also been hard cast as a value beater, been Sneak Attacked in, is popular in the GR Ramp decks.

    It's a nice card, regardless of if you put it in your 2 CMC or 7 CMC slots. I strongly applaud it.

    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on [CUBE] [ZNR] Includes & Testing Thread
    I was hoping to get this up before WTL's article, but hey ho, late as always Weird

    The list of includes on a larger basis I've put in spoiler tags, as this set was really good for the extra large (1440) cube. A lot of cards helped support the tribes-that-bind that make the cube operable, and the party mechanic adds value to decks that don't pursue a particular tribe. Some cards also were essentially swapped just to freshen up the cube by rotating out cards that don't see enough play (for whatever reason).

    There is a number of cards I've singled out for comment though, as these are cards that in testing were a tad more impactful than the other bread & butter cards.

    WHITE

    Angel of Destiny - Being an angel it works with Lyra Dawnbringer, being a cleric is also interesting. Being a life gain machine that's also a double-striking flyer is also interesting. I imagine this card would be good for smaller cubes with a BWG life gain package or just for those with a life drain archetype. For us, it's an interesting value card that can be built around.

    Maul of the Skyclaves - For those with RW equipment support, or who just want some value equipment, this is pretty good. I've seen it played on turn three after a turn 2 creature was removed, allowing it to attach to a 2/1. Suddenly that 2/1 is a 4/3 flyer, which is difficult for a tapped down control player. I've also seen it stolen with Vulshok Battlemaster, which like any good play with that card, was utterly backbreaking. As far as equipment goes, this attach-on-enter variant of Living Weapon is great for those aggressive decks.

    Luminarch Aspirant - At first this didn't really stand out to us. Then someone remembered we have cards like Isamaru, Hound of Konda, Mirran Crusader and High Sentinels of Arashin, all of which work well with +1/+1 counters. And then there's Kitchen Finks, which this got frustrating to deal with really, really quickly. If you've a persist package or +1/+1 theme, this card is great, without it's a good option for value creatures.

    Squad Commander - RW tokens wants to say hello, because this card rocks in that deck. Maybe not a consideration for smaller cubes, but for larger cubes this can easily knock out 2/3 tokens on entry, and when that second clause gets going (especially with something like Najeela, the Blade-Blossom or Legion Warboss on the board, it can be a really annoying 'everyone's a Gideon' effect.

    BLUE

    Confounding Conundrum - This is anti-sacland tech. It's anti ramp tech. It gives blue an option for fighting ramp and aggro decks that's not just counters, and forces my opponents to think. The usefulness of this card does seem proportional to the density of Cultivate/Rampant Growth and sacland effects in the cube, but with a high enough density, this card does create some interesting tension.

    Glasspool Mimic - I am aware of many people's feelings on this card. I'm aware of why they feel that way. However, this card has been VERY interesting for us and hard to evaluate when it's come up. As a creature, it's incidentally been good for rogues, been handy for randomly cloning True-Name Nemesis off a top deck, even making a second Etherium Sculptor in the artifact deck has been useful. But what's really been interesting is that it's covered blue from land screw a few times: players have dropped this turn 3 after keeping a 2 land hand, where they've been able to pass priority through turn 3 because they've a 2CMC counter in hand. Because of that alone, this card has made for far more interesting games.

    Thieving Skydiver - Whatever I say will likely just reiterate the thoughts of WTL, so just click here to go to his article. Aside from that, stealing Moxen, stealing Talismans, stealing Swords of This and That; in the end, it all leads to stealing the game (and possibly your opponent's sanity).

    BLACK

    Nullpriest of Oblivion - An early game aggressive creature that outpaces Child of Night in every way. Great for Vampire players, Cleric Players, but best of all, those who enjoy value. Being an early game card that gains life and evades is great, turning into a reanimation spell late game is great, and that reanimation spell doesn't break the bank either. Definitely a card I expect to be seeing in cubes of all sizes.

    Nighthawk Scavenger - Vampire support, Rogue support, and a direct upgrade for those with Vampire Nighthawk who don't want to play them side by side. This grows quickly though, like a Tarmogoyf that flies and gains life. An absolute nightmare when equipped with Lightning Greaves.

    Bloodchief's Thirst - This has been a nice little value card. It's handy for MBC, shutting down some irritating early aggro pushes and utility creatures. Later in the game, it's a fair removal spell. The reason I've mentioned it is because in larger cubes the cards that have two modes of play are increasingly valuable as they can functionally fill a gap the draft may have created: this card helps alleviate that in spades.

    RED

    Cleansing Wildfire - There is a lot of utility lands that can be shot down with this. From Maze of Ith to City of Brass, this can slow your opponent's mana down, buying you time. If that player got greedy and didn't put basics in their deck? Well... you just got a cantripped Stone Rain at 1R. And that's what makes this better than most of its cousins, the cantrip: drawing a card to replace this means it rarely feels bad, and regardless of what you snipe, it's likely to at least disrupt the opponent the majority of the time.

    Valakut Awakening - At worse, this card is 2R: Draw a card. At best, you can pitch a dead hand to the bottom of your deck to try for better (which also triggers any 'when you draw a card' effects). You can also play it turn 1 as a land when you're playing RU Spells decks, and alike most of the MDFC, this is where it's strength has lay, enabling hands that otherwise wouldn't be kept, increasing gameplay tension and the meaningful decisions players must make.

    Shatterskull Charger - This card has been ridiculous. 4/3 Trample + haste for 1RR is big for aggro. It also plays well with Purphoros, God of the Forge and Terror of the Peaks. Even getting a 5/4 Trample + Haste for 3RR isn't bad. Strap on Giant and Warrior for those were it's relevant, and you've got a really tasty red beater, especially when combined with...

    Kargan Intimidator - The other great red beater this set brought along. The top line might be a throwaway much of the time, but for anyone with a higher density of changelings, this messes with them so hard. Even on it's own, it's modality on turn 3 is brutal: trample over walls, walk past things that can kill it, or pump itself vs an empty board. This isn't going anywhere for a while I don't think, and I'd be surprised if this doesn't barge it's way into smaller, more powered cubes as well.

    Fireblade Charger - Is it Goblin Guide? No. It's a goblin card that supports warrior and equipment decks. What is also is, is hilarious: Dropping this turn 5 off a top deck, auto equipping Obsidian Battle-Axe to it, then paying for the Loxodon Warhammer as well, is nasty (6/2 Trample, Lifelink, Haste), and then if it dies... it deals 6 damage to whatever you want. The trick with this card is timing: play it early for Footlight Fiend style shenanigans, or play it late to grab a weapon and swing/self detonate. Not sure if it'll make it into the most tight of cubes, but those with Goblins, Equipment or who like shenanigans should consider it.

    Moraug, Fury of Akoum - Ok, here it comes.... this card, is weird. I know most people don't like it. I know the problem with it not creating an additional main phase. I also know I've seen it kill on turn 4. How? Player A got Sneak Attack on the board turn 3 when Player B tapped out. On Turn 4 Player A used Sneak Attack to throw down this and Combat Celebrant. So what happened? Well, they attack, with Moraug and the Celebrant that exerts, mowing down the blockers and getting some damage in, with a second combat phase for Moraug from the Celebrant. Then they play a land during their second main phase. Then they attack with both this and the just untapped Celebrant (it can't exert). Then they kill their opponent. Witnessing that, says to me to that while the card is unlikely to be amazing on it's own, it's interactions with exert creatures, saclands and Sneak Attack alone are so ridiculous, that when it does work, it's literally game-breaking.

    GREEN

    Tajuru Paragon - It's a 3/2 elf for 1G. That makes it good for aggro decks who wanna keep swinging. It also boosts multiple tribes (six of them, all relevant). It also has a kicker effect that while not fundamentally busted, can be useful if this is a late game top-deck (dig for the big thing). A very good value card, like a personal gift for tribal or large cubes, and should definitely be considered for those looking for more green aggro options.

    Turntimber Symbiosis - As before, WTL likely has already explained this card better than me (I've not read their article yet). Lest to say, when pulling out Troll Ascetic or Drana, Liberator of Malakir is as good as spawning Wurmcoil Engine or King Kong the card is great. But the ability to keep an opening hand that's got only 2 lands because you can drop this as a land turn 1 if necessary is nuts. Get this in your cube because I can't envision it coming back out again.

    ARTIFACT

    Myriad Construct - This breaks when in play with Urza, Lord High Artificer and Tolarian Academy. I don't feel the need to expound on that fact any further.

    The list below is the bread & butter cards for those interested:


    BLUE:

    Sure-Footed Infiltrator > Academy Elite
    Expedition Diviner > God-Eternal Kefnet
    Cascade Seer > Spark Double
    Tazeem Roilmage > Kadena's Silencer
    Anticognition > Spell Rupture
    Merfolk Windrobber > Distortion Strike
    Zulaport Duelist > Controlled Instincts
    Umara Wizard > Dreamtail Heron
    Windrider Wizard > Teferi's Protege
    Nimble Trapfinder > Mass Diminish
    Enigma Thief > Frozen Aether

    BLACK:

    Malakir Blood-Priest > Fallen Askari
    Expedition Skulker > Extremely Slow Zombie
    Nimana Skitter-Sneak > Undercity Scavenger
    Feed the Swarm > Mire In Misery
    Taborax, Hope's Demise > Slate Street Ruffian
    Demon's Disciple > Kheru Mind-Eater
    Shadow Stinger > Silversmote Ghoul
    Drana, the Last Bloodchief > Doom Blade
    Thwart the Grave > Torment of Hailfire
    Scourge of the Skyclaves > Nether Traitor

    RED:

    Goma Fada Vanguard > Blood Aspirant
    Grotag Bug-Catcher > Bloodrage Brawler
    Rockslide Sorceror > Tectonic Giant
    Scavenged Blade > Temur Battle Rage

    GREEN:

    Scale the Heights > Harrow
    Inscription of Abundance > Track Down
    Tajuru Blightblade > Scute Mob
    Veteran Adventurer > Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
    Strength in Solidarity > Sprout


    WHITE:

    Rockslide Sorceror > Burrenton Bombardier
    Angelheart Protector > Zhalfirin Crusader
    Kor Blademaster > Knight of the Holy Nimbus
    Kor Outfitter > Old Guard
    Warrior en-Kor > Tithe Taker
    Tazri, Beacon of Unity > God-Eternal Oketra
    Shepherd of Heroes > Knight-Captain of Eos
    Emeria Captain > Sanctifier of Souls
    Archpriest of Iona > Nyxborn Shieldmate

    ORZHOV:

    Cleric of Life's Bond > Arvad the Cursed

    RAKDOS:

    Zagras, Thief of Heartbeats > The Scorpion God

    BOROS:

    Kargan Warleader > Outlaws' Merriment

    DIMIR:

    Zareth San, the Trickster > Extract from Darkness
    Anowon, the Ruin Thief > Etrata, the Silencer

    ARTIFACT:

    Sea Gate Colossus > Pathrazer of Ulamog
    Stonework Packbeast > Pili-Pala
    Relic Vial > Heraldic Banner
    Relic Axe > Heart Piercer Bow

    LAND:

    Base Camp > Unknown Shores


    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on [CUBE] Glasspool Mimic // Glasspool Shore
    Quote from Fredo »
    @LeyShade: very insightful, thanks. I think this is a good way of looking at these ETBT MDFCs when considering whether to include them or not.

    Edit: holy *****, 56 posts in 14 years? You should definitely open your mouth more often!


    My account got lost in the great Twitchgeddon. My prior post count was much higher. Though I generally keep stump outside this forum section because I seem to upset people a lot and would prefer to avoid confrontation.

    I'm glad I could contribute positively in this discussion though. Thank you for the positive words Smile
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on [CUBE] Glasspool Mimic // Glasspool Shore
    To add to the discussion on MDFC cards as the resident idiot in this forum, I would like to propose an alternate way of evaluating these cards.

    Much alike how my group treats Hybrid cards within our larger cube as either A or B when finding slots rather than gold cards, perhaps it would be useful for people to think of MDFC cards as lands first, spells second. As in, the question should be, "Is the possibility to play XY spell worth this land entering tapped". For instance, cubes that are heavily reliant on basic lands matter cards (Spitting Earth, Aven Trailblazer) would find lower value in these cards. Heavily multicolour cubes would find higher value (incidental mana fixing).

    For the average cube designer, I would suspect that evaluating these cards as lands first would simplify the 'cubeable' checklist too, 1) Does my cube have this effect? and 2) Does entering the battlefield tapped effect the tempo of the decks playing it?

    If one is no (I don't have this effect), then the MDFC card is almost a shoe in: As WTF mentioned, it improves the viability of opening hands, while not changing or impacting upon cards already in the cube. If one is yes (I have this effect), then it becomes a matter of taste (wether your group/cube interact better with cycling or mana fixing).

    If two is no (This doesn't slow down the decks playing it), then the MDFC card is almost a shoe in for the same reason as 1. If two is yes, and the ETBT clause would slow down a deck (Aggro mostly, I presume), then maybe the MDFC isn't right for your cube/group.

    I think by evaluating things this way, as lands first and spells second, it would improve the understanding of what these cards are aiming to do design wise so we can make more nuanced decisions, as the cards themselves are largely good (lands that are spells are innately good), so I believe decisions come down to interaction with individual cubes and play scenarios than it does the raw power of the cards themselves. Something we should be happy for, that we have enough good cards to be deciding on preference.

    Or disregard this, because I'm an idiot and should be awarded a literal Jester's Cap everytime I speak Grin
    Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
  • posted a message on Leak- Potential Nissa Zendikar Rising PW Card
    That people are judging the card solely on it's ability to drop creatures from hand is sad, because it misses the point of the black part outright reanimating dead creatures which in non-standard formats is more easily enabled.
    Posted in: Speculation
  • posted a message on [CMR] Gavin is showing some commander legend cards next week!
    It's a forum for discussing MTG. Your argument is inherently flawed to call out my on-topic discussions of Theros, while quoting my post criticizing off topic content. You shouldn't need that explained.


    Forcing Theros into every conversation about any other topic, and then attacking traits of a people that exist outside of the game, is exactly what the problem is. It's not inherently flawed to point out that you demanding opinions contrary to yours are silenced is wrongful, wether those opinions are based on Theros or real world issues.

    It's called reaping what you sow: if you go around being hostile to people about elements of their persons, in return you can only expect people to be intolerant of elements of your own. Which is, ironically, part of the theme during the second outing of Theros.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [CMR] Gavin is showing some commander legend cards next week!
    No one cares. We're here for cards. 2020 is an awful year and everyone is sick of politics everywhere. MTG or go away. Take all your values, intellect and political crusades to political forums. Or social media, like just about everyone else but me, evidently.


    Sorry, but no. These issues are things that are part of the very identity of people, as much as your love for Jace or Theros is a part of you. To simply demand people remove elements of their very personage because 'you' don't want to deal with them is an affront, as not everyone is "sick of politics" when those politics are attacking or debating their very right to exist as people.

    The problem is people's attitudes, not their identities. The age-old adage of "If you've nothing nice to say, then say nothing" is one that would go well towards solving the problem. As in if people don't want to associate with someone, they can simply 'block' them, instead of posting antagonizing, hateful responses or baiting comments re: diversity within the MTG community or MTG lore.

    Silencing the person being attacked for defending themselves is the action of an abuser. If you don't want to deal with others posts, block them. If you feel they break forum rules, inform a mod. But telling people to 'MTG or GTFO' is rude, especially when, in my experience, you carry that same attitude towards those who disagree with you re: aspects of MTG.

    And honestly, I don't need a response. I know you well enough to know you will feel compelled to give one, and I'm happy to block you myself if necessary, to serve the point. Because, in your own words, "MTG or go away".
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Set boosters (yet another new type of booster)
    Well, this is another great idea executed in a terrible way.

    Sure, people want booster sets that aren't designed for draft. The argument for them being that draft boosters are often stuffed with cards that see no play or value outside of that draft environment. It seems Wizard has obliged. However, in the process of obliging, they've stuck two fingers up to the same people: they've increased the booster cost, lowered the number of cards you get, and then 'the set is not intended for drafting, but was designed so you can draft it if you want'. The most infamous excuse for stuffing a set with junk, so they can keep what sells for later cash grabs ancillary products.

    This will not do well. On the cost to card ratio, casual players who aren't invested in news will be uninterested. If they then stuff it full of rejected cards from this years various hit-or-miss products, it's going to do even less well because singles sellers and collectors won't be seeking it. Topped with the old metric of asking a random person in the card shop whether they'd rather two boosters of: boosters with 15 cards that are usable in STD and most LGC formats, or pay extra and receive less cards that are only legal in older formats, but are unlikely to be actually played in them? I don't see those pedestrians opting to buy this over the more immediately accessible normal boosters or Jump Start.

    They should of just made Double Masters the 'not designed for draft' set. Then that wouldn't be half crammed with useless, unwanted cards under the auspicious claim of 'but draft needs it', and people would have had an actual reason for inflated prices while chasing cards they want. As it appears to me they don't even bother focus testing or researching these ideas anymore, as it seems they're just throwing any idea at the wall to see what makes the most money. Not what's best for consumers, best for the game or best even for newer players: literally just what makes the most short term profit regardless of damage it does to confidence and long term game support.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Cube drafting bots
    I'm afraid the only ones I know of are the CubeTutor bots. However, access to them requires becoming a patreon subscriber.
    Posted in: The Cube Forum
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