I just sold my MTGO collection to MTGOtraders for the second time (first time was 5 years ago). I got paid partly on paypal plus took some store credit at Cape Fear. Both payments were posted very quickly after I sent my info. 100% trustworthy & professional in my experience.
Actually, you can go infinite with this deck. One of my friends (props to Jason Corrigan) found the same combo so I'll copy what he wrote: Cast Dual Casting on your Midnight Guard. Then, cast a token maker. (Gather the Townsfolk, say.)
Maintain Priority and cast Battle Hymn. Float a Red mana.
---START ARBITRARY LOOP---
Copy the Gather with Dual Casting.
Let the copy resolve.
Get your two untap triggers from the two creatures.
Let one resolve.
Copy Battle Hymn and let it resolve. You now have three Red mana, an untap trigger, a Battle Hymn, and a Gather on the stack.
Let Midnight Guard untap.
---END ARBITRARY LOOP WITH MORE RED MANA AND MORE CREATURES THAN YOU STARTED WITH---
I tried out the Skullsnatchers and they are amazing. Having maindeck graveyard hate is a huge asset. I beat Aggro Loam and Friggorid just because of him & it's pretty good against Boros too. It also recurs a 187 creature more easily than Skull Collector and isn't useless by itself, so it's clearly better than Collector. I actually swept Boros twice in the tournament I just played, so that matchup's either gotten better or I just learned how to play it. The sideboard removal I use now is Chainer's Edict. It can be worse than Smother against Boros and decks like that, but the flashback is often relevant against aggro decks so it can be better than Smother too. I think it's slightly better against Affinity, which is on the rise, because of Frogmite and Myr Enforcer. There can be situations where you can't kill anything with a Smother, or you don't have any choice as to what to kill anyways, so it might as well be an Edict. You want to cast it on turn 1-2 anyways, when they usually have one creature in play, so they can't go nuts with modular or Ravager tricks, so it doesn't matter a great deal what removal spell it is. Of course, Edict is the best removal spell against decks like the Rock and GW Hate, which run creatures too big to hit with Smother and sometimes even the dangerous Phantom Centaur and Troll Ascetic. Edict is the only way you can kill those two, although Nether Traitor + Jitte can sometimes be enough to win through them. Right now I have 3 Needles maindeck instead of a removal spell and the Edicts in the board. They could be swapped depending on the meta. I also have Engineered Plague in the board, but that's only useful in a few matchups (mainly Goblins and Opposition) so it could be replaced.
Sorry I haven't posted yet, my computer was down for 3 weeks and then I forgot about the thread for a while. I really do appreciate the input. I know that Skull Collector is often useless, there have been many times it was just sitting in my hand. Sometimes I get a Rat + Collector lock on turn 2, but it probably is more frequent that it screws me over, so I'll try removing it. Skullsnatcher is an interesting idea, but the replacement I liked the most is Phyrexian Ironfoot. I've been wanting to use it in a deck for a while, and it could be really strong in here. It would be good against Boros and other aggro decks too probably, and would give me an additional solution to stuff like Phantom Centaur. It also survives Pyroclasm. It dies to artifact hate, which gets boarded in against me anyways, but I'll have so many artifacts with their addition that only Kataki would really make the situation any worse, and Kataki's not a serious problem for this deck (I know this from experience).
I want to mention here, Phantom Centaur would be an auto loss for this deck if I didn't have Nether Traitor, and it does see play. Traitor has been ridiculously good for me for all 3 of its abilities, and I would strongly advise against removing them. The only matchup where they're not good is vs. TEPS, and even then, it at least has haste so the extra power you might get from another creature isn't missed greatly, and it's not like it's a bad matchup anyways. They're necessary against any deck that can kill and/or block your creatures.
As for Sudden Death vs Smother, Smother is just as good to kill Mongrel and Psychatog only if they don't run counterspells, which isn't always the case. Smother could be just as good against Boros since you can kill Lavamancer and Legionnaire a turn earlier which sort of equalizes the fact that they can respond to it. Smother can't kill Baloth or Teferi, both of which see plenty of play. I've played against various version of the Rock more than any other single deck. That deck also uses Hierarch usually, not to mention Genesis and Sakura-Tribe Elder. If the Rock really was unplayed, I could see an argument for Smother but I don't find that to be true at all. There are obviously plenty of things that Sudden Death kills that Smother doesn't and almost none that Smother kills and Sudden Death doesn't, and it's uncounterable, which has been a factor multiple times in my time playing this deck. This deck is so slow that the extra mana is not a big issue, but I have killed many creatures with Sudden Death that don't die to Smother.
On a final note, I might add the 4th Pithing Needle to the board. I lost to Scepter Chant 0-2 the first time I played against it, and although I beat it 2-1 the second time, I still think it's a bad matchup. However, Needle hoses them very badly, and I feel confident saying that they can't win if one sticks. It's not even bad in multiples because their primary (usually their only) solution to it is Wishing for Disenchant. It's also good vs Affinity, which could be a problem, and I also board it in against Zoo because Lavamancer and Mongrel are so bad for me.
A lot of people requested my decklist, so I'm posting it here for critique. I did horribly today (2-5!) although I think this tournament was the fluky one, not the one where I went undefeated. Three of my losses were to decks I have beaten before, often multiple times. The other two losses were to Boros, which I think the deck could be made better against. I am not listing the list as I played it, but rather what I will be playing the next time I play it.
I haven't tried Gemstone Caverns yet, but I really need more accelerants. I originally built this deck for the Classic format where I got to run Dark Ritual, and it's greatly missed in Extended. The deck just runs so much better when you get a first turn Mox, so Caverns should be a solid addition.
Sudden Death I feel must be moved to the main deck, because it's really good in all of my worst matchups. Cards like Wild Mongrel are really hard to deal with game 1 without it. It's also very good against Boros where it can kill creatures like Lavamancer and Legionairre without a response, not to mention Silver Knight which is still pretty good because of its First Strike.
I'll go over some of the other cards:
Ghost Quarter - This has been amazingly good for me. Against Affinity and TEPS, it's just as good as Strip Mine and can win games by itself. It's also great vs. Urzatron decks for obvious reasons. It can be good against decks like Gifts Rock and Trinket Angel because it can cut off a color that has one or no basics producing it. In a pinch, you can also use it on yourself when you're mana flooded to thin your deck.
Umezawa's Jitte - This is clearly the best card in the deck. I don't know what to say about it but that running less than 4 would be crazy because drawing zero is much, much worse than drawing two or more. If Jitte got banned, I doubt this deck would be viable.
Duress - I like this better than Therapy because it almost always hits. Therapy always hits if you're willing to sac a creature, but that's not always ideal. It was also a bit of overkill to have 7 non creature discard spells, making it harder to win when both players are in topdeck mode. I still have Mesmeric Fiend in the board for when I need more discard post board (like vs. TEPS).
Dark Confidant - This guy has killed me a few times, but it's definitely a contender for second best card in the deck. It's more risky than Rager, but often more rewarding and also cheaper. The biggest problem is that it's a Flagbearer so it never pays off a lot of the time. I would strongly advise against taking out though.
Ravenous Rats - This is just an efficient creature. It has a horrible body, but because of its cheap mana cost, it almost always hits a card so it does its work. I only have 3 now because I wanted to add the 4th Nether Traitor, and there's enough 2 drops that way.
Nether Traitor - My friend told me to try this out and it became the MVP in the premiere where I split the finals. I really needed a creature with evasion to get past creatures with pro-black or first strike while wearing a jitte, and Shadow is a great way to do it. The second best ability it has is actually Haste, which often means that it swings with Jitte the turn it comes into play. The third ability is also great, especially late game.
Phyrexian Rager - I used to run fewer 3 drops, but they are really the core of the deck and are deceptively powerful. I'm thrilled to draw Rager when I'm in topdeck mode and often, it's a better play than Confidant. It's just an incredibly underrated card that does quite a lot.
Chittering Rats - Chittering Rats is the new Plow Under, I'm saying it here. The effect of putting a card from someone's hand on top of their library is just so much more devastating than it seems at first blush. There have been times where I dropped a Chittering Rats and my opponent immediately conceded, think about that. When you compare it to Ravenous Rats, the move from 1/1 for 1B to 2/2 for 1BB alone makes Chittering Rats better in practice, and the fact that the card goes on top of the library makes it even more powerful. You really have to see one in action to see how great the card is and how key it is to the deck's success.
Skull Collector - This guy is pretty solid, but not one of the best cards in the deck. It also happens to be absolutely terrible in multiples, and I really regretted it when I tried running three. It's nice to see one of these guys in the late game, but it's not necessary for winning by any means. I could see cutting them, but there are situations where they are ridiculously powerful, so they're in for now.
Nekrataal - This is another card that saves my ass all the time and is a fantastic topdeck in a lot of matchups. I just wouldn't have the success that I've had against decks with cards like Exalted Angel and Loxodon Hierarch without running the full compliment of these. This is really one of the most swingy cards in the deck.
Mesmeric Fiend - I really can't justify running this maindeck when the top deck is 1/3 removal and a lot of other popular decks have a lot of removal as well. It doesn't get boarded in very often, but it's very strong vs. certain decks like TEPS and Friggorid. Since I took the Therapies out I think having some extra disruption in the board is necessary.
Hand of Cruelty - I haven't tried this yet, but I could see this being very powerful against Boros and especially Trinket Angel. I really like having creatures in the sideboard as a general thing when I'm playing a deck with such a large number of creatures main deck.
Leyline of the Void - This is the most boarded in card and I have run it main deck at times. It's good against the Rock, Friggorid, and even Boros and RG Aggro. It's also usuable vs. TEPS but it's probably not better than what you'd be boarding out for it (like Jitte). I really think this is just better than Tormod's Crypt if you're playing black, as playing it on turn 3-4 is often good enough against decks like the Rock and Friggorid, and beggining the game with it is even better.
Pithing Needle - This is really strong vs. certain cards like Pernicious Deed, and Sensei's Divining Top can be a huge problem so it usually gets boarded in against any deck with Top. It's also good vs. Affinity, although I don't think that deck is a major problem now with cards like Sudden Death and Ghost Quarter main deck.
I'm glad to see my deck has gained some fans online, I've actually been working on it for a very long time and it was one of the first decks I ever had built online (the Classic version). I think this deck is a great metagame choice at the moment despite the problems with Boros. I'd appreciate any comments on the deck, thanks for reading!
Hey, I'm the guy who split the finals of that premiere with mono black. The deck's name is Raticate, and I am not releasing the decklist until after the 4x event on Wednesday. I will post it on these forums after that happens. However, I would like to let you guys know my results with the deck since I started playing it again. I have played three 8 mans and one premiere with it and I am 13-1 in played matches. These are the decks I played against:
Goblins/Dirty Kitty 3-0
TEPS 3-0
Gifts Rock 2-0
UW Tron 2-0
Aggro Flow Rock 1-0
Trinket Angel 1-0
Tooth and Nail 1-0
Friggorid 0-1
Cast Dual Casting on your Midnight Guard. Then, cast a token maker. (Gather the Townsfolk, say.)
Maintain Priority and cast Battle Hymn. Float a Red mana.
---START ARBITRARY LOOP---
Copy the Gather with Dual Casting.
Let the copy resolve.
Get your two untap triggers from the two creatures.
Let one resolve.
Copy Battle Hymn and let it resolve. You now have three Red mana, an untap trigger, a Battle Hymn, and a Gather on the stack.
Let Midnight Guard untap.
---END ARBITRARY LOOP WITH MORE RED MANA AND MORE CREATURES THAN YOU STARTED WITH---
Gideon: 4
-x and +x: 0
The planeswalkers must not be formatted that way as speculated earlier.
converted: 9
power: 14
Hoping for some converted mana cost and/or power matters cards with these Eldrazi around.
This is the list I'm running now:
14x Swamp
4x Ghost Quarter
2x Gemstone Caverns
4x Chrome Mox
4x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Pithing Needle
4x Duress
4x Dark Confidant
3x Ravenous Rats
3x Skullsnatcher
4x Nether Traitor
4x Phyrexian Rager
3x Chittering Rats
4x Nekrataal
SIDEBOARD:
4x Engineered Plague
4x Chainer's Edict
4x Hand of Cruelty
1x Pithing Needle
1x Ravenous Rats
1x Skullsnatcher
I want to mention here, Phantom Centaur would be an auto loss for this deck if I didn't have Nether Traitor, and it does see play. Traitor has been ridiculously good for me for all 3 of its abilities, and I would strongly advise against removing them. The only matchup where they're not good is vs. TEPS, and even then, it at least has haste so the extra power you might get from another creature isn't missed greatly, and it's not like it's a bad matchup anyways. They're necessary against any deck that can kill and/or block your creatures.
As for Sudden Death vs Smother, Smother is just as good to kill Mongrel and Psychatog only if they don't run counterspells, which isn't always the case. Smother could be just as good against Boros since you can kill Lavamancer and Legionnaire a turn earlier which sort of equalizes the fact that they can respond to it. Smother can't kill Baloth or Teferi, both of which see plenty of play. I've played against various version of the Rock more than any other single deck. That deck also uses Hierarch usually, not to mention Genesis and Sakura-Tribe Elder. If the Rock really was unplayed, I could see an argument for Smother but I don't find that to be true at all. There are obviously plenty of things that Sudden Death kills that Smother doesn't and almost none that Smother kills and Sudden Death doesn't, and it's uncounterable, which has been a factor multiple times in my time playing this deck. This deck is so slow that the extra mana is not a big issue, but I have killed many creatures with Sudden Death that don't die to Smother.
On a final note, I might add the 4th Pithing Needle to the board. I lost to Scepter Chant 0-2 the first time I played against it, and although I beat it 2-1 the second time, I still think it's a bad matchup. However, Needle hoses them very badly, and I feel confident saying that they can't win if one sticks. It's not even bad in multiples because their primary (usually their only) solution to it is Wishing for Disenchant. It's also good vs Affinity, which could be a problem, and I also board it in against Zoo because Lavamancer and Mongrel are so bad for me.
4x Ghost Quarter
2x Gemstone Caverns
4x Chrome Mox
4x Umezawa's Jitte
4x Duress
3x Sudden Death
3x Ravenous Rats
4x Nether Traitor
4x Phyrexian Rager
4x Chittering Rats
2x Skull Collector
4x Nekrataal
4x Mesmeric Fiend
4x Hand of Cruelty
4x Leyline of the Void
3x Pithing Needle
I haven't tried Gemstone Caverns yet, but I really need more accelerants. I originally built this deck for the Classic format where I got to run Dark Ritual, and it's greatly missed in Extended. The deck just runs so much better when you get a first turn Mox, so Caverns should be a solid addition.
Sudden Death I feel must be moved to the main deck, because it's really good in all of my worst matchups. Cards like Wild Mongrel are really hard to deal with game 1 without it. It's also very good against Boros where it can kill creatures like Lavamancer and Legionairre without a response, not to mention Silver Knight which is still pretty good because of its First Strike.
I'll go over some of the other cards:
Ghost Quarter - This has been amazingly good for me. Against Affinity and TEPS, it's just as good as Strip Mine and can win games by itself. It's also great vs. Urzatron decks for obvious reasons. It can be good against decks like Gifts Rock and Trinket Angel because it can cut off a color that has one or no basics producing it. In a pinch, you can also use it on yourself when you're mana flooded to thin your deck.
Umezawa's Jitte - This is clearly the best card in the deck. I don't know what to say about it but that running less than 4 would be crazy because drawing zero is much, much worse than drawing two or more. If Jitte got banned, I doubt this deck would be viable.
Duress - I like this better than Therapy because it almost always hits. Therapy always hits if you're willing to sac a creature, but that's not always ideal. It was also a bit of overkill to have 7 non creature discard spells, making it harder to win when both players are in topdeck mode. I still have Mesmeric Fiend in the board for when I need more discard post board (like vs. TEPS).
Dark Confidant - This guy has killed me a few times, but it's definitely a contender for second best card in the deck. It's more risky than Rager, but often more rewarding and also cheaper. The biggest problem is that it's a Flagbearer so it never pays off a lot of the time. I would strongly advise against taking out though.
Ravenous Rats - This is just an efficient creature. It has a horrible body, but because of its cheap mana cost, it almost always hits a card so it does its work. I only have 3 now because I wanted to add the 4th Nether Traitor, and there's enough 2 drops that way.
Nether Traitor - My friend told me to try this out and it became the MVP in the premiere where I split the finals. I really needed a creature with evasion to get past creatures with pro-black or first strike while wearing a jitte, and Shadow is a great way to do it. The second best ability it has is actually Haste, which often means that it swings with Jitte the turn it comes into play. The third ability is also great, especially late game.
Phyrexian Rager - I used to run fewer 3 drops, but they are really the core of the deck and are deceptively powerful. I'm thrilled to draw Rager when I'm in topdeck mode and often, it's a better play than Confidant. It's just an incredibly underrated card that does quite a lot.
Chittering Rats - Chittering Rats is the new Plow Under, I'm saying it here. The effect of putting a card from someone's hand on top of their library is just so much more devastating than it seems at first blush. There have been times where I dropped a Chittering Rats and my opponent immediately conceded, think about that. When you compare it to Ravenous Rats, the move from 1/1 for 1B to 2/2 for 1BB alone makes Chittering Rats better in practice, and the fact that the card goes on top of the library makes it even more powerful. You really have to see one in action to see how great the card is and how key it is to the deck's success.
Skull Collector - This guy is pretty solid, but not one of the best cards in the deck. It also happens to be absolutely terrible in multiples, and I really regretted it when I tried running three. It's nice to see one of these guys in the late game, but it's not necessary for winning by any means. I could see cutting them, but there are situations where they are ridiculously powerful, so they're in for now.
Nekrataal - This is another card that saves my ass all the time and is a fantastic topdeck in a lot of matchups. I just wouldn't have the success that I've had against decks with cards like Exalted Angel and Loxodon Hierarch without running the full compliment of these. This is really one of the most swingy cards in the deck.
Mesmeric Fiend - I really can't justify running this maindeck when the top deck is 1/3 removal and a lot of other popular decks have a lot of removal as well. It doesn't get boarded in very often, but it's very strong vs. certain decks like TEPS and Friggorid. Since I took the Therapies out I think having some extra disruption in the board is necessary.
Hand of Cruelty - I haven't tried this yet, but I could see this being very powerful against Boros and especially Trinket Angel. I really like having creatures in the sideboard as a general thing when I'm playing a deck with such a large number of creatures main deck.
Leyline of the Void - This is the most boarded in card and I have run it main deck at times. It's good against the Rock, Friggorid, and even Boros and RG Aggro. It's also usuable vs. TEPS but it's probably not better than what you'd be boarding out for it (like Jitte). I really think this is just better than Tormod's Crypt if you're playing black, as playing it on turn 3-4 is often good enough against decks like the Rock and Friggorid, and beggining the game with it is even better.
Pithing Needle - This is really strong vs. certain cards like Pernicious Deed, and Sensei's Divining Top can be a huge problem so it usually gets boarded in against any deck with Top. It's also good vs. Affinity, although I don't think that deck is a major problem now with cards like Sudden Death and Ghost Quarter main deck.
I'm glad to see my deck has gained some fans online, I've actually been working on it for a very long time and it was one of the first decks I ever had built online (the Classic version). I think this deck is a great metagame choice at the moment despite the problems with Boros. I'd appreciate any comments on the deck, thanks for reading!
Goblins/Dirty Kitty 3-0
TEPS 3-0
Gifts Rock 2-0
UW Tron 2-0
Aggro Flow Rock 1-0
Trinket Angel 1-0
Tooth and Nail 1-0
Friggorid 0-1