MTG Salvation

Quote from FlyingDelver »

I like Bob much more than flayers. If I were to play junk, I would play nobles and bobs and no flayers.
Its bad that this excludes Tasigur, but nobles do also exclude Tasigur basically, so Tasigur will have to wait for his time to come.

Quote from SiegeDino »

Quote from Spsiegel1987 »

I'd love to talk about unbans here and the implications about SFM, but it's against the rules

I will say I have 3x World Wake foil SFM's along with a foil Batterskull in my binder

Lets say i created a solution
www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/opinions-polls/772185-abzan-midrange-in-modern-if-stoneforge-mystic-was

Guys is treetop village viable in our deck?

Quote from ed06288 »

Has anyone tried flaying tendrils out of the board? Seems great against dredge, and stuff like elves/merfolk. Even grabs etched champion.

Quote from FlyingDelver »

I think Shriekmaw is worse overall now than BGH simply because BGH can hit both Death Shadow and any relevant Eldrazi creature, Shriekmaw can't. Specifically against Eldrazi, both are good, and for death shadow BGH is better. So that makes me lean towards BGH here (If I would run any of the two).

Quote from pzbw7z »

With the continued Eldrazi presence, has no one give any thought to Big Game Hunter in the side-board? With three 0r four Liliana of the Veil and a Collective Brutality or two, it shouldn't be too difficult to live the dream there, should it? With Liliana, the Last Hope in the mix, one could conceivable live the dream more than once per game.

Another interesting piece of technology I might try out is Suffer the Past. Anyone tested it already?

Quote from FlyingDelver »

Now there is list I would absolutely play, a list going 5-0 at yesterdays league:

DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Lands 3 Blooming Marsh 1 Forest 1 Ghost Quarter 1 Godless Shrine 3 Marsh Flats 1 Overgrown Tomb 1 Plains 2 Shambling Vent 1 Stirring Wildwood 1 Swamp 1 Temple Garden 4 Verdant Catacombs 2 Windswept Heath	Creatures 3 Noble Hierarch 4 Dark Confidant 2 Scavenging Ooze 4 Tarmogoyf 3 Siege Rhino Non creature Spells 2 Fatal Push 3 Path to Exile 3 Thoughtseize 3 Inquisition of Kozilek 2 Abrupt Decay 4 Lingering Souls 1 Maelstrom Pulse 4 Liliana of the Veil	Sideboard 2 Grafdigger's Cage 2 Surgical Extraction 2 Collective Brutality 2 Stony Silence 1 Zealous Persecution 3 Fulminator Mage 1 Painful Truths 1 Damnation 1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

I personally would probably change the landbase a bit, not a fan of the Ghost Quarter in this tight list, but thats me. Also like a 3/1 split of Lilianas, like I said. I think finally Bob can return in Junk in a quite effective way. What do you think?

Quote from Spsiegel1987 »

I never tried Lilly in the main deck, but whenever I bring out Abzan again I'll give her a try. I think at this point I'd cut voice unless something big like Jace or preordain come back into modern.

Quote from FlyingDelver »

Quote from KoDiamonds »

About your first point about results: I think this is where it is very ambiguous. Of the Abzan decks that have been played at the GP, how many of them have Flayers and how many of them have Tasigurs? I would venture a guess that more than 75% of them are flayer builds just based on the fact that its the version the pros are running. That being said, it is not fair to say the Tasigur version isnt putting up numbers if it isnt given a chance to shine.

The same situation happened to Abzan as a whole deck prior to worlds. People always just played Jund and Abzan was always under represented because the pros played jund > abzan.


About your hierarch + tasigur point, you cant run both IMO. With Tasigur, you want every card to be a hit when you mill. When you have Hierarchs in your deck, you leave yourself vulnerable to bringing back a mana dork with tasigurs ability, which is not where you want to be.

I can see your point. Results of decks could certainly be different from what they actually are if people would play more the stuff they like rather than just plain copying. But for me, still, running Nobles does not only make sense in the "good result" matter. Nobles allows us to be simply faster and go under Eldrazi/Big Mana decks.

The way I see it: Right now, in a non Noble list you would ideally play your discard turn 1 and then drop a threat turn 2 (like a goyf or Flayer, if run). With Nobles, you get more chance to consistantly play a spell turn 1. Now, if you have discard turn 1 with a noble in hand, surely you want to still play discard first. But with printing of Fatal Push, we can still go with Noble on turn 2 and hold up push if we want to. This allows us to develop the board and hold up removal alonside. On turn 2, with noble on the field, you can go discard + CMC 2 threat, Lingering, Liliana, CMC 2 threat and hold up Push/Path or simply play discard/removal and hold up decay. Nobles allow us to sooner cast multiple spells a turn, from what point a GBx deck truly shines. This is after all a great tempo advantage, what seems to be a better strategy against Eldrazi than having to wait 1-2 turns more to deploy our threats against a deck that will throw a potential TKS at us as early as turn 2.

Now I don't want to talk about details here, my point is, that just by thinking about it, Nobles makes just sense in that meta. Its not only the good results.

Quote from FlyingDelver »

Quote from KoDiamonds »

The thing about it is, magic is very much a copycat league like the NFL is. The Wildcat offense was a fad and everyone ran it. Same thing here where LSV runs Hiearch + Flayer. The pros do it so thats the "correct" build.

This is often true, but not exclusively. Junk has not been run by any major pro lately and still, mostly Hierarch lists do well. Results do speak for themselves after all. For me, not the pro counts, but the result. If we are talking about winning, not about personal preference, than I think Nobles is the answer. Personally, you can run what you want. But this is just simple data analysis of the recent results we have got. And I think there is nothing wrong with it.

And to say, personal preference is definitely a thing what has an impact on the success of a deck. The way I talked about it though, was not implementing the statement "run Nobles and Flayers" or "run Nobles and no Flayers". The fundamental and most important thing for me is to simply run Nobles and its basic configuration (non creature spells and lands). Whether to run Flayers or not, is up to personal preference.

Why not run Nobles and Tasigur alongside? I think, if you want to run Tasigur, then you can't run both Flayers or Bobs effectively anyway. Doesn't matter if there is Nobles or not. But Tasigur can go alongisde Nobles I think.

Quote from Spsiegel1987 »

As much as I'm hating Flayers I won't recommend other players who want to play Junk to sell them

I have a playset foil I'd like to get rid of, but I feel like it'll be just 1 card away from being a break-away card

I would at least wait until the GP coming up this weekend

You also may want to consider if VOR is REALLY what you want to trade it for, it could honestly be a card of the month and then disappear (which is very likely).