Man, I forgot to even mention The Great Henge. I'm running that one too! This is what I mean; so many new enablers printed in the last year or so.
We do also run Metallic Mimic and have had good success with it in both persist and non-persist decks, despite my cube not having any particular tribal themes.
These cuts all look like improvements to me! Sad to see persist go but I think at your cube size it's probably the right choice... I feel like I struggle to find room for all the supporting cards at 540 sometimes!
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I have not given this card much of a chance in the past and I think it will be worth trying out in place of SOMETHING based on the reactions here. I appreciate the help!
After being initially skeptical I brought in both Kiki combo in UR and Persist combo in WBG to my 540 power cube this summer. It has been a pretty nice change - not a slam dunk by any means but also not something we want to switch away from any time soon. I think the more of the creature combos you run at a time the easier it is to justify some of the combo inclusions and cards that get better with creature based combos like Sevinne's Reclamation and Birthing Pod effects.
One thing I'd be curious to hear opinions on - we are currently experimenting with cutting the two biggest persist enablers - Melira, Sylvok Outcast and Vizier of Remedies to see if there was enough other support cards now to not have to include these two that are just a Grizzly Bear and a Goblin Piker in any other deck. I'm not sure happy to be playing Solemnity right now either, for that matter.
We're trying this because we've always much preferred the cards like Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit that can do a bit more even in a non-persist deck, and there have been a LOT of enablers of this style printed in the last year or so that have more general applications (like doubling up as support for aggressive decks in these colors - my cube supports green aggro as well so that's especially enticing). The more niche inclusion of new Heliod + Kitchen Finks was mentioned above, but also in the last year or so we've had Good-Fortune Unicorn, Grumgully, the Generous, Rhythm of the Wild, Renata, Called to the Hunt. Even Luminous Broodmoth helps here!
Our results have been mixed and I am curious to hear what others would think of supporting persist combo without those two pieces... its very possible we aren't quite at the density of needed redundant pieces to be able to do away with them, but we are much closer than we were a year ago, and I think this archetype might appeal to more people who were on the fence about adding it (like I was) if we could get away from playing SUCH specific support cards.
Do people feel Collective Brutality is good enough for a 540 powered cube? I'm not running it currently but have always been pretty interested in finding room for it... I just don't know what I'd cut (isn't that always the case?).
It's better than both of those cards ...unless they're combo cards for you.
They are right now, which is the problem... I don't support humans though, so that part doesn't matter. I aslo feel like apparition fills a lot of the dame combo space as fiend hunter given their similarly worded old style triggers... But it doesn't fill all of it of course.
With Skyclave Apparition absolutely killing it in modern, I've been wanting to get him into my 540 power cube somehow. How have people who included him found him?
Working quite well so far. No complaints. In decks playing multiple lands a turn and cracking fetches and stuff, Fledgling/Kudzu are super cool.
I am interested in trying this package in my cube, but at 540, I am finding it hard to find room for them, especially in green... are these aggro-loam guys worth swapping in over other green aggro one and two drops? Like Elvish Reclaimer/Scythe Leopard over Jungle Lion/Pelt Collector/Experiment One? Or Vinelasher Kudzuu over Noose Constrictor/Tarmogoyf/Scavenging Ooze? I have a hard time picturing that would be an improvement, but I have not played with any of the cards in this aggro-loam package myself.
Also, thanks for all the cube content and discussions you post wtwlf123!
Thank you very much for this response! It seems maybe we are underestimating her in my group, in that case. I will leave her in for now and see if I can't get her to shine in the near future.
How is this Nissa holding up for people today? I am looking for cuts in green and while she's been in my 540 power cube since day one I don't remember a time when she's really shined. Looking to see if we just haven't drafted the right deck with her, or if the competition is just too stiff these days.
Fire & Ice, Wargear, Light & Shadow, Body & Mind, Heirloom Blade, Sinew & Steel, Feast & Famine, Truth & Justice, War & Peace
I would agree with this order, but without Humans/Zombies/tribal support, I was not running Heirloom blade at all in my list (I was running all of these but the last two swords and the heirloom blade). Should I rethink trying it out even in a cube that doesn't have any tribal archetypes? The asker talked about a 360 unpowered cube; mine is 540 powered - does that change the equation at all?
I am trying to support red/green aggro and persist combo, which is better? I had been running Rhythm, but I am starting to think Grumgully could be better because of how often my red green aggro decks are topping out with token makers (Deranged Hermit, Deep Forest Hermit, Siege-Gang Commander, etc) that Grumgully would support, but rhythm really doesn't.
I guess we are just undervaluing all the small advantages and how they add up to being worth more than a flashier edge-case scenario. I will revisit my plan to cut the card for now and will look to cut something else, possibly Devoted Druid instead.
Thanks for the responses (also I incorrectly listed Sylvan Advocate and not Sylvan Caryatid - my bad, I fixed it now). Can anyone elaborate on what makes STE valued so highly? The ability to ramp mana AND block on Wall of Roots has been invaluable for us, and the persist combo enablers can turn the Druid into an infinite mana machine under the right circumstances... I guess we are undervaluing STE because we aren't seeing the scenarios where he really shines. The ability to chump and sac once is certainly fun, and the ramp being a harder-to-remove land and not just a creature that taps for mana is also nice too, especially where things like Mirari's Wake and Nissa, Who Shakes the World are concerned. Is it just that, or are we missing something else too?
We do also run Metallic Mimic and have had good success with it in both persist and non-persist decks, despite my cube not having any particular tribal themes.
One thing I'd be curious to hear opinions on - we are currently experimenting with cutting the two biggest persist enablers - Melira, Sylvok Outcast and Vizier of Remedies to see if there was enough other support cards now to not have to include these two that are just a Grizzly Bear and a Goblin Piker in any other deck. I'm not sure happy to be playing Solemnity right now either, for that matter.
We're trying this because we've always much preferred the cards like Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit that can do a bit more even in a non-persist deck, and there have been a LOT of enablers of this style printed in the last year or so that have more general applications (like doubling up as support for aggressive decks in these colors - my cube supports green aggro as well so that's especially enticing). The more niche inclusion of new Heliod + Kitchen Finks was mentioned above, but also in the last year or so we've had Good-Fortune Unicorn, Grumgully, the Generous, Rhythm of the Wild, Renata, Called to the Hunt. Even Luminous Broodmoth helps here!
Our results have been mixed and I am curious to hear what others would think of supporting persist combo without those two pieces... its very possible we aren't quite at the density of needed redundant pieces to be able to do away with them, but we are much closer than we were a year ago, and I think this archetype might appeal to more people who were on the fence about adding it (like I was) if we could get away from playing SUCH specific support cards.
They are right now, which is the problem... I don't support humans though, so that part doesn't matter. I aslo feel like apparition fills a lot of the dame combo space as fiend hunter given their similarly worded old style triggers... But it doesn't fill all of it of course.
Is Skyclave Apparition better than Fiend Hunter or Gideon Blackblade for example? Only so many 1WW options to consider swapping him for...
I am interested in trying this package in my cube, but at 540, I am finding it hard to find room for them, especially in green... are these aggro-loam guys worth swapping in over other green aggro one and two drops? Like Elvish Reclaimer/Scythe Leopard over Jungle Lion/Pelt Collector/Experiment One? Or Vinelasher Kudzuu over Noose Constrictor/Tarmogoyf/Scavenging Ooze? I have a hard time picturing that would be an improvement, but I have not played with any of the cards in this aggro-loam package myself.
Also, thanks for all the cube content and discussions you post wtwlf123!
I would agree with this order, but without Humans/Zombies/tribal support, I was not running Heirloom blade at all in my list (I was running all of these but the last two swords and the heirloom blade). Should I rethink trying it out even in a cube that doesn't have any tribal archetypes? The asker talked about a 360 unpowered cube; mine is 540 powered - does that change the equation at all?
I am trying to support red/green aggro and persist combo, which is better? I had been running Rhythm, but I am starting to think Grumgully could be better because of how often my red green aggro decks are topping out with token makers (Deranged Hermit, Deep Forest Hermit, Siege-Gang Commander, etc) that Grumgully would support, but rhythm really doesn't.
I guess we are just undervaluing all the small advantages and how they add up to being worth more than a flashier edge-case scenario. I will revisit my plan to cut the card for now and will look to cut something else, possibly Devoted Druid instead.