I have a 540 Powered Cube (that supports persist combo) and am looking to find room for Tangeled Floralhedron. It seems to make sense that I cut a different green two drop ramp creature. Rate/Order the following:
Without knowing the context of powered/unpowered, what archetypes are trying to be supported, etc etc, my personal ranking of those black three drops would be:
Drana, Liberator of Malakir
Mardu Strike Leader
Yahenni, Undying Partisan
Grim Haruspex
Amit Eternal
Arcane Denial
Remand
Memory Lapse
Miscalculation
Condescend
Force of Negation
Spell Pierce
For additional context, I also have a 540 powered cube and currently run the top 4 of that list - until very recently I also ran Condescend, which I am planning to cut for Jwari Disruption, which I would put above Miscalculation on that list. You also did not list Force Spike which I also run - I'd probably rank that just below Jwari Disruption.
Hey wtwlf123! I noticed you cut Wolfbitten Captive for Jungle Lion (among others) in your latest cube update. Can you elaborate on that decision? My cube tries to support green aggro and currently runs the captive but not jungle lion, so I am curious what your thoughts were with this cut.
If I am trying to run some of the persist combo stuff in my 540, including the Vizier of Remedies at the moment, would it be better to run Devoted Druid over Sylvan Caryatid? I like the caryatid a lot but can't think of another cut that would make running the druid possible. Is it worth it?
What are your thoughts on Echo of Eeons (and draw 7 in general) in a storm-less cube?
Hi! Thanks for the question. They are there to be played with cards like Leovold, Emissary of Trest, Narset, Parter of Veils, and Notion Thief. They also work well in general in the artifact decks that like to play a lot of cheap mana rocks (think the same kind of cards that Upheaveal is good with), as a way to dump a bunch of ramp and empty one's hand and then quickly refill it. It's not an archetype that comes together every time we draft by any means, but the cards come up together often enough alongside any of the multiple draw 7 options and they tend to be back breaking when they go off.
I just went through with a HUGE update to the cube which has been percolating for quite some time (alongside the M21/Jumpstart update, of course). It swaps out ~50 cards in total to make room for more combo cards. The main attractions are Splinter Twin/Kiki combo cards in UR and Persist Combo cards in BGW, but there are a lot more nuances to it that that. Rather than post all those cards here, I am going to post a link to the cube blog since they encompass the last five or so updates in total. I'd love to hear thoughts or feedback on anything that you think shouldn't have been cut or added! It's truly a massive update.
Since I am new to these archetypes I would really appreciate feedback if anyone has any on cards I cut that should stay in or cards I included that I don't need at this size! To view the entire update you can view the last 5 or so blog posts on cube cobra here, and you can view the cube list here if that's easier.
I too had a thought about cutting from the rainbow lands section for these, but I too thought it felt wrong.
With our group the signet/talisman cycle doesn't get picked up very often... how crazy is it to consider cutting the five enemy colored signet/talismans for these five lands?
I currently have gone with the first two, as I don't support storm and I feel like Gush is mostly a storm card, but maybe that's wrong. I I am less sure on the others though. Thoughts?
I wouldn't replace either of those because a) Solemn is better in more decks and b) Lodestone is a different type of card entirely - it's specifically for the artifact and aggro decks. If you want to add Godo, I'd look for another cut.
Cheers,
rant
You are right about Lodestone being for different decks - we just haven't ever had much success with him and were wondering if he was showing his age a bit or if it was just us. It feels like the 5/3 body for 4 doesn't feel as big or beefy as it used to and that drains a lot of the appeal of the card as an aggro card.
But you are probably right, we are still quite new to cube by comparison.
Cube looks really good. Nothing stands out that needs to be addressed. I would probably run another burn spell or two. I'd certainly run Fireblast and I'd consider another Incinerate variant or Rift Bolt. You could cut one of the red 3s that make tokens, whichever is your least favorite.
Cheers,
rant
Thanks! Your cube and your opinions are definitely ones I look to for inspiration and when I have trouble deciding on includes. We have been underwhelmed by both Castle Embreth and Underworld Breach (which replaced the castle). I think I will be swapping in Lightning Strike in that slot, as I agree, it would be nice to have another spell like that in the cube. And I did get Fireblast back in as well! I took out Experimental Frenzy for it.
This looks like a solid "stock" 540. Was wtwlf123's former 540 inspiration for this?
Since this list looks pretty stock you probably won't receive a lot of feedback on cards to cut. Maybe as a start, much of the community might agree on replacing the following cards:
-Finale of Glory
-Force of Virtue
-Commit//Memory
-Liliana, Dreadhorde General
-Bosh, Iron Golem
-Notion Thief
Additionally, here are some cards that way underperformed for us but are loved across the forums::
-Reveillark
-Spellskite
-Vampire Nighthawk
-Wolfbitten Captive
-Psychatog
-A bunch of colorless cards like Mimic Vat, Erratic Portal, Lightning Greaves, etc.
Also we like Rolling Earthquake a lot more than Earthquake, but I know there's a "Boros Moat" archetype that some people have had success supporting, and I see that archetype on your list as well.
Yep, wtwlf123's cube was what we first built way back in 2016 when it was a 405 card cube. So that's what my group cut our teeth on! When he moved up to 720 around Modern Horizons last year, we decided we wanted to stay at 540 cards max, so we split off from following it exactly and have been trying to grow into maintaining it and making it our own ever since.
We've personally had great success with most of those cards you named, but I still appreciate hearing your opinion on them! I will definitely look at them with a more incredulous eye next time they come up. Especially Vampire Nighthawk which I recently toyed with cutting completely for Woe-strider but ended up cutting a Diabolic Edict instead since we haven't had much success with that card. We've also been a little more lukewarm on Reveillark than most seem to be, and I might try taking that out for the new Mothra card that looks really sweet once Ikoria drops!
The rest of those cards, including the colorless ones, have been pretty good for us. Are there colorless cards you'd try to run instead? We only managed to fit 5 of the 7 swords in right now, and couldn't find room for Icy Manipulator even though I wanted to. I'm just not sure those are better than any of the current inclusions when looking at the cube as a whole.
You are right on the money for why we have included Earthquake but not Rolling Earthquake as well (although that card WAS in at some point in the past before they changed the planeswalker redirection rule).
Thanks again for your feedback - I really appreciate it!
Wall of Roots
Devoted Druid
Tangeled Floralhedron
Sylvan Caryatid
Sakura-Tribe Elder
My current plan is the run the first three on that list, plus Lotus Cobra and Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary. Does that sound right?
Drana, Liberator of Malakir
Mardu Strike Leader
Yahenni, Undying Partisan
Grim Haruspex
Amit Eternal
Personally I'd keep Daze and Disruption, but I seem to be in the minority here.
Arcane Denial
Remand
Memory Lapse
Miscalculation
Condescend
Force of Negation
Spell Pierce
For additional context, I also have a 540 powered cube and currently run the top 4 of that list - until very recently I also ran Condescend, which I am planning to cut for Jwari Disruption, which I would put above Miscalculation on that list. You also did not list Force Spike which I also run - I'd probably rank that just below Jwari Disruption.
I'm still interested to hear what people think about Jinxed Idol vs Spawning Pit as well.
2 - Declaration in Stone, IMO.
3 - I like frenzy the best of those three cards.
Which is the better tertiary colorless sac outlet - Jinxed Idol or Spawning Pit?
Hi! Thanks for the question. They are there to be played with cards like Leovold, Emissary of Trest, Narset, Parter of Veils, and Notion Thief. They also work well in general in the artifact decks that like to play a lot of cheap mana rocks (think the same kind of cards that Upheaveal is good with), as a way to dump a bunch of ramp and empty one's hand and then quickly refill it. It's not an archetype that comes together every time we draft by any means, but the cards come up together often enough alongside any of the multiple draw 7 options and they tend to be back breaking when they go off.
Since I am new to these archetypes I would really appreciate feedback if anyone has any on cards I cut that should stay in or cards I included that I don't need at this size! To view the entire update you can view the last 5 or so blog posts on cube cobra here, and you can view the cube list here if that's easier.
With our group the signet/talisman cycle doesn't get picked up very often... how crazy is it to consider cutting the five enemy colored signet/talismans for these five lands?
Blue card draw spells, pick two: Deep Analysis, Treasure Cruise, Gush, Gifts Ungiven, Ancestral Vision
I currently have gone with the first two, as I don't support storm and I feel like Gush is mostly a storm card, but maybe that's wrong. I I am less sure on the others though. Thoughts?
You are right about Lodestone being for different decks - we just haven't ever had much success with him and were wondering if he was showing his age a bit or if it was just us. It feels like the 5/3 body for 4 doesn't feel as big or beefy as it used to and that drains a lot of the appeal of the card as an aggro card.
But you are probably right, we are still quite new to cube by comparison.
Thanks! Your cube and your opinions are definitely ones I look to for inspiration and when I have trouble deciding on includes. We have been underwhelmed by both Castle Embreth and Underworld Breach (which replaced the castle). I think I will be swapping in Lightning Strike in that slot, as I agree, it would be nice to have another spell like that in the cube. And I did get Fireblast back in as well! I took out Experimental Frenzy for it.
Yep, wtwlf123's cube was what we first built way back in 2016 when it was a 405 card cube. So that's what my group cut our teeth on! When he moved up to 720 around Modern Horizons last year, we decided we wanted to stay at 540 cards max, so we split off from following it exactly and have been trying to grow into maintaining it and making it our own ever since.
We've personally had great success with most of those cards you named, but I still appreciate hearing your opinion on them! I will definitely look at them with a more incredulous eye next time they come up. Especially Vampire Nighthawk which I recently toyed with cutting completely for Woe-strider but ended up cutting a Diabolic Edict instead since we haven't had much success with that card. We've also been a little more lukewarm on Reveillark than most seem to be, and I might try taking that out for the new Mothra card that looks really sweet once Ikoria drops!
The rest of those cards, including the colorless ones, have been pretty good for us. Are there colorless cards you'd try to run instead? We only managed to fit 5 of the 7 swords in right now, and couldn't find room for Icy Manipulator even though I wanted to. I'm just not sure those are better than any of the current inclusions when looking at the cube as a whole.
You are right on the money for why we have included Earthquake but not Rolling Earthquake as well (although that card WAS in at some point in the past before they changed the planeswalker redirection rule).
Thanks again for your feedback - I really appreciate it!