Take out voice or reveillark. Actually, probably wouldn't even use voice if Im not sure the meta is just Jund and midranges. I tried Eldritch Evolution but didn't like it too much, but it's probably much better with voices, possibly same deal with revellark. I'd say keep 61 and try executing that plan.
In SB I might do 2 maelstrom pulse and 0 decay and keep both courser and rec sage, or just not use courser. def rec sage over courser.
How do people feel about a 1-of n-Thalia in the main? I'm going to give it a try at LGS modern event this week. She seems like a good addition to our fair game B-plan.
Does she help on the combo? No.
Is she a good addition to the fair plan? If yes, is she better than voice of resurgence and on what occasions? I doubt we should play any thing that does not helpthe combo at all. We have gavony for the plan b and even birds can aid on that. If you want so badly to have such a tool, i would prefer voice any day.
I don't know about any day, If I'm playing against Tron I think I would want that Thalia more.. If we are just considering those two cards.
I don't really know enough about Hypergeometric Distribution, but I'm assuming you also did it for needing G on turn 1? Might that affect the turn 2 and turn 4 especially?
G or any other color on T1 only suggests 7 to 8 sources. In general, the more of a particular color you need, the more sources for that color you'll need regardless of what turn it is (with the first notable exception being ? on T1 vs ?? on T8).
@Pokken: As for the Verdant Catacombs/Marsh Flats split, if the basic Swamp was ran in this configuration over the 2nd Overgrown Tomb (which will drop the G count to 16) I would recommend the going 4x Verdant Catacombs to have even access to both basics. However, and I honestly have no clue how significant of an impact this would make (would need to compare 10 and 11 basic G sources for G on T1), if going 3 forests 1 plains, then having 1 additional fetch to grab the basic plains seems like it would have more of an impact over the additional fetch to grab a basic Forest.
Oh I just meant when related whatever the formulas do in Hypergeometric distribution. He directly addressed other turns but not turn 1 and it resulted that there could be 4 utility lands, but I wanted to make sure T1 G was included, which seems like it would heavily effect the geometry of turn 2 WW, which seems like it would then heavily effect turn 4 BB and GGG maybe to the point of not giving a result of suggesting 4 colorless spots.
I have seen only minor discussion of sideboarding against zoo in this thread. Particularly, how are people handling deaths shadow zoo? I don't think this matchup is very good for us (barring a natural spellskite draw). They are faster on combo kill and their plan b is better than ours. Furthermore, it is making up a sizable chunk of the meta. Does anyone have any insight about successful play patterns against this deck?
They are faster . I haven't had a problem yet because Path to Exile and Spellskite just always stops them, they can't even get a land from path.. maybe you want 4 of them. Abrupt decay. Tidehollows and BFT together. Since you know they are faster than you at your fastest then maybe slow down a little to stop them with necessary spells, they are killing themselves so I think the way I've been winning is by focusing on not dying rather than trying to force my 'slower' combo. Could end up just pinging them to win after you timely removal, things start happening in your favor after you see their hand once with a Tidehollow and you know what game to play a few turns. Keep Ewits though, they will discard your ***** for sure.
I don't really know enough about Hypergeometric Distribution, but I'm assuming you also did it for needing G on turn 1? Might that affect the turn 2 and turn 4 especially?
Won last night's Thursday Modern with this deck in a weird turn of events. I lost to Burn round 1, beat the mirror round 2, got paired up round 3 and won vs RUG midrange, then paired up again in round 4 vs UWR Control (No Nihiri's) and won to win the night.
I haven't looked through the fullspoiler yet, but I can't WAIT until the new Selfless Soul is legal and we don't have to worry about Anger of the Gods or Supreme Verdict anymore. I had taken the Burrenton Forge-Tenders out of my board and just been plowing through Angers for the last week... it was like playing on hardmode.
I hope selfless soul is good, but I feel like lighting bolt from Anger Decks and Jeskai control is going to kill this at end of turn then allow board wipe, easier than with BFT. It's also slightly harder to chord for. I run into this problem with dauntless escort, but someone was saying earlier that they have been succeeding with dauntless.. my ***** always gets bolted then I get screwed. BFT has always been the old reliable, and have had exactly 4 to chord to save team very often where any more cost I could not have paid.
Even if we cut Redcap, there is still infinite bolster combo, so basicly, when you combo off infinite life, u can scry Melira or Anafenza to the top,which one of those combo pieces is missing so basicly, next turn u can turn ur creatures to 52152152151251/56215215125 and attack for lethal.
In my experience, Redcap shines in two broad scenarios over Archangel when it comes to winning the game:
1. Acting as removal to get rid of pesky X/2s and X/1s that prevent the effectiveness of infinite life and infinite damage
e.g. Opponent has three Suture Priest on the battlefield and you have the infinite life combo assembled (to some degree at least). You topdeck Redcap, cast it, and burn one Suture Priest so that you may continue to combo out.
2. Getting around a combat phase in which we can't attack.
e.g. Opponent has Worship and you have infinite life assembled. You topdeck Redcap and proceed to win.
Otherwise, Redcap is difficult to use, at least main deck. Double Black in the cost prevents a smooth casting, particularly with only 1 basic Swamp and 2 black-producing shocks, it relies completely on the graveyard to go infinite (whereas Angel at least has Spike Feeder to back it up), and it's body is nothing to write home about.
I'd like to come back to this discussion as it struck me. Does it make sense to cut out redcap and include another silver bullet?
Many times going infinite life is enough or we can just infinite bolster on the team (aka infinite damage).
However I do agree that in some situations redcap might be better as the damage is applied right away where as you need to attack with the team if you do the infinite bolster trigger.
Looking back on the games with Abzan CoCo I didn't win that many times because of redcap, it often times felt really akward to chord for or to harcast. Another silver bullet does really makes sense to me.
What do you guys think?
Edit: I might consider -1 Eternal Witness and +1 another silver bullet.
I tried this, but it's not as reliable since you lose instant speed win conditions, it requires more setup, and decreases the number of combos in the deck; but is worth doing if you can guarantee your meta won't make you regret it. I regretted it too much.. especially in the instances where I would have had enough mana to place infinite damage but had no redcap and died/combo broken before my turn, esp against Nahiri decks.
In my experience, Redcap shines in two broad scenarios over Archangel when it comes to winning the game:
1. Acting as removal to get rid of pesky X/2s and X/1s that prevent the effectiveness of infinite life and infinite damage
e.g. Opponent has three Suture Priest on the battlefield and you have the infinite life combo assembled (to some degree at least). You topdeck Redcap, cast it, and burn one Suture Priest so that you may continue to combo out.
2. Getting around a combat phase in which we can't attack.
e.g. Opponent has Worship and you have infinite life assembled. You topdeck Redcap and proceed to win.
Otherwise, Redcap is difficult to use, at least main deck. Double Black in the cost prevents a smooth casting, particularly with only 1 basic Swamp and 2 black-producing shocks, it relies completely on the graveyard to go infinite (whereas Angel at least has Spike Feeder to back it up), and it's body is nothing to write home about.
There are also more combo possibilities with Redcap in the mix, like Redcap + Melira + Anafena KT bolster stacking without Seer.
Haters gonna hate, not sure that changes Tier status. Consistency and/or adaptability maybe more. Modern is full of tiered deck that are one greater than this but less than that. What you see is probably the deck greater than Abzan Company taking a turn until the haters hate and the cycle continues. If you have an even match with most tiered deck then it's probably T1, if you are unfavored in a majority of tier deck then nah.
In a chord deck, cheap creatures are also mana ramp. So these cheap otherwise useless combo pieces ramp quickly into the missing combo pieces via deck search.
Eager to see how that plays out for you. I get the point on pulse getting multiple targets, but it was brought in for problem permanents that we couldn't hit previously that ruin our combo or cause combo against us. Beast should fill that need, while also having to protect our combo from a few situations as you stated. So yeah, interested to see how that actually happens in matches.
Even if it's Anger of the Gods, Nahiri, or Scapeshift they are still forced to interact with something that is not our combo, and we are trying to combo against them. In general, anything that gets their card back could have also been used to interrupt our combo. Also, it's fairly likely that we are able to sacrifice Skuller to permantly remove. Another thing to consider is that Skuller is a creature and does not soften our combo chances as much as Thoughtseize, since it's a pull from company and can be used to convoke if you were able to keep Chord in, and again is a sort of decoy. It's not some win for sure SB tech but it slows down other combo decks allowing us to combo even if they have the ability to deal with it and get the card back. It can be used even in removal heavy matches, things get spicy when they have to remove everything you play, so you can decide what to run out there. This is the same thing he said about pressure and a small road bump becoming bigger, essentially.
Not sure I'm convinced. It's no use just discussing it however, I'll probably have to try the card for myself and see how it goes, maybe it's one of those cards you have to play with to realize it's actually good. Will also be trying out the Pharika and Courser Logan Mize talks about in his SCG article and see how it goes (especially since they're dirt cheap right now).
Yeah, I've tried both. It took a while to get used to Skuller but I'd say it took a shorter amount of time to not like Thoughtseize.
I used to run 3 Thoughtseize over 4 Tidehollow Sculler but have switched. The fact is that any matchup that you are bringing in Thoughtseize for can just be as well off with Sculler. If you take their removal then they are going to work extra hard to kill it and get it back meaning it takes the target off of the rest of your combo pieces letting you combo out easier. If they don't then they have less removal to stop you from comboing. It's a win-win in a way. You can play Scullers at instant speed through Chord and Company allowing for some good tricks on their draw steps, endsteps, etc, and you can do the sacrifice trick to permanently exile cards where just discarding doesn't work all too well against Snapcaster Mage and friends. Being a creature just provides a lot more play in our deck and if you are applying a lot of pressure then the small roadbump that Sculler gives suddenly becomes a lot bigger.
Yes, but what if you need to take, say, an Anger of the Gods, a Nahiri, a Scapeshift, etc? They can kill the Sculler and cast their card right away. This is the only reason I'm a bit uneasy about playing Sculler instead of good old Thoughtseize. Do you find you bring Sculler in on the same matchups? Even removal heavy ones?
Even if it's Anger of the Gods, Nahiri, or Scapeshift they are still forced to interact with something that is not our combo, and we are trying to combo against them. In general, anything that gets their card back could have also been used to interrupt our combo. Also, it's fairly likely that we are able to sacrifice Skuller to permantly remove. Another thing to consider is that Skuller is a creature and does not soften our combo chances as much as Thoughtseize, since it's a pull from company and can be used to convoke if you were able to keep Chord in, and again is a sort of decoy. It's not some win for sure SB tech but it slows down other combo decks allowing us to combo even if they have the ability to deal with it and get the card back. It can be used even in removal heavy matches, things get spicy when they have to remove everything you play, so you can decide what to run out there. This is the same thing he said about pressure and a small road bump becoming bigger, essentially.
I just read that Logan article and just realized every problem card he cited for using Maelstrom Pulse is exiled instantly by Celestial Purge, the Pulse seems right in a large event but I'm still considering Purge for the cronies here.
In SB I might do 2 maelstrom pulse and 0 decay and keep both courser and rec sage, or just not use courser. def rec sage over courser.
I think it's bad here, this deck is redundant, would rather Eldrigth Evolution be a creature when I draw it, o r whatever card you intend to replace.
I don't know about any day, If I'm playing against Tron I think I would want that Thalia more.. If we are just considering those two cards.
Oh I just meant when related whatever the formulas do in Hypergeometric distribution. He directly addressed other turns but not turn 1 and it resulted that there could be 4 utility lands, but I wanted to make sure T1 G was included, which seems like it would heavily effect the geometry of turn 2 WW, which seems like it would then heavily effect turn 4 BB and GGG maybe to the point of not giving a result of suggesting 4 colorless spots.
They are faster . I haven't had a problem yet because Path to Exile and Spellskite just always stops them, they can't even get a land from path.. maybe you want 4 of them. Abrupt decay. Tidehollows and BFT together. Since you know they are faster than you at your fastest then maybe slow down a little to stop them with necessary spells, they are killing themselves so I think the way I've been winning is by focusing on not dying rather than trying to force my 'slower' combo. Could end up just pinging them to win after you timely removal, things start happening in your favor after you see their hand once with a Tidehollow and you know what game to play a few turns. Keep Ewits though, they will discard your ***** for sure.
I hope selfless soul is good, but I feel like lighting bolt from Anger Decks and Jeskai control is going to kill this at end of turn then allow board wipe, easier than with BFT. It's also slightly harder to chord for. I run into this problem with dauntless escort, but someone was saying earlier that they have been succeeding with dauntless.. my ***** always gets bolted then I get screwed. BFT has always been the old reliable, and have had exactly 4 to chord to save team very often where any more cost I could not have paid.
I tried this, but it's not as reliable since you lose instant speed win conditions, it requires more setup, and decreases the number of combos in the deck; but is worth doing if you can guarantee your meta won't make you regret it. I regretted it too much.. especially in the instances where I would have had enough mana to place infinite damage but had no redcap and died/combo broken before my turn, esp against Nahiri decks.
There are also more combo possibilities with Redcap in the mix, like Redcap + Melira + Anafena KT bolster stacking without Seer.
Yeah, I've tried both. It took a while to get used to Skuller but I'd say it took a shorter amount of time to not like Thoughtseize.
Even if it's Anger of the Gods, Nahiri, or Scapeshift they are still forced to interact with something that is not our combo, and we are trying to combo against them. In general, anything that gets their card back could have also been used to interrupt our combo. Also, it's fairly likely that we are able to sacrifice Skuller to permantly remove. Another thing to consider is that Skuller is a creature and does not soften our combo chances as much as Thoughtseize, since it's a pull from company and can be used to convoke if you were able to keep Chord in, and again is a sort of decoy. It's not some win for sure SB tech but it slows down other combo decks allowing us to combo even if they have the ability to deal with it and get the card back. It can be used even in removal heavy matches, things get spicy when they have to remove everything you play, so you can decide what to run out there. This is the same thing he said about pressure and a small road bump becoming bigger, essentially.