@Joker; 21 lands seems low. Field of Ruin may be hard to activate and stay on turn tempo. I think Fatal Push could be a good addition. Authority of consuls has been lack luster when I tried it ( I am guessing it is the answer to the phenox decks and aggro?). Kambal, Consul of Allocation would be a strong card either MB or SB. Spectral procession counts as 6 cmc which if Confidant hits would really suck. Lily will give better card advantage anyway. Liliana, Heretical Healer and the vers Liliana, Defiant Necromancer would fit as well as a 1 of. torpor orb shuts down a lot of the meta. Your deck can SB out of the Soul Sisters plan and transfusion into Dead Guy Ale style deck. The Pridemate is still a good card even with a few counters on him.
Overall I like your deck, I think some more tweaking and you could create something very unique for SS.
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BlazingRagnarok posted a message on Modern SpiritsPosted in: Aggro & TempoQuote from jokerstyle00 »So I'm normally a Bant Spirits player with some experience with UW, my LGS has a lot of big mana decks like Amulet and Tron, as well as some Phoenix decks and tribal. I'm looking for a a different take on Spirits, since Bant is starting to feel a bit stale. Can someone give me recommendations/describe the play styles of the new color splashes? Curious about Jeskai and Esper Spirits, mainly.
While StreexIT knows more about how well those variants play, the main draws for each splash are Light Up the Stage, burn, and Eidolon of the Great Revel for Jeskai and Fatal Push and Lingering Souls for Esper, though I once saw an enterprising individual who tried Bloodghast. While the Jeskai additions would give you more play against Phoenix, neither really gives you and edge versus big mana decks. In my experience, UW has the best big-mana matchups because the 2 color manabase lets me run Field of Ruin. -
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Charlie_Swords posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard Decktook the deck to Modern tonight at the LGS and got my first 4-0.Posted in: Control
Mono-White Eldrazi & Taxes 2-1
Humans 2-0
UW Control 2-0
Living End 2-1
pretty stoked to finally get the 4-0. Decklist below
Maindeck (60)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
3 Legion Warboss
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Walking Ballista
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Desperate Ritual
2 Magma Jet
1 Anger of the Gods
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Blood Moon
3 Gemstone Caverns
14 Mountain
3 Ramunap Ruins
1 Mutavault
Sideboard (15)
2 Eidolon of the Great Revel
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Lava Coil
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Ravenous Trap
1 Dragon's Claw
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Witchbane Orb
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FluffyWolf posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard DeckPosted in: Control
Prison - An Archtype BreakdownMagic has main categories for their deck definition which are defined here on MTG Salvation, but also are defined within the community Deck Archetypes defined by MTG Gamepedia. These range from essentially, Aggro, Combo, and Control. That being said there are 35 breakdowns within the wiki linked.
To quote mtg gamepedia:
A Prison deck is a deck which tries to slow down the opponent or bring his gameplan to a complete halt and preventing him from regaining any momentum. Cards such as Winter Orb, Kismet and Opposition are popular to construct such decks as they heavily rely on tapping down the opponents resources and other permanents. Early decks used Icy Manipulator to tap the one land the opponent had available.
In essence, we seek to limit our opponent from playing their gameplan. I define their gameplan as to define 'playing magic' as our goal would be near impossible and untainable, but I will give an example of a deck which attempts to do this. There is also the essence of what can be a 'True Lock' and in the world of magic that can be extremely difficult, and I'll give an example that may be confusing but provide also an example of why it is not a true lock, and once again provide the deck that attempts to establish this.
Finally I will link an old article (there are certainly newer ones) The Art of Transformation. This article talks about sideboards that transform. I add this to the discussion as a talking point for later.
If you'd like you may skip ahead to the Deck headers, but if you'd like to hear my comments on locks and transformation, then please continue reading
==Locks==
We define a lock as the moment in which an opponent should have No Outs to the board state, and it is a matter of drawing a win condition or decking out the opponent of cards. A very primitive example would be a Burn opponent having only spells that target an opponent and you playing a Leyline of Sanctity. The card itself is not a "Lock" however if the totality of cards in your opponents deck lacks interaction to remove the card, along with then dealing the appropriate damage, you have essentially locked your opponent out. Other examples can include:
Lock Examples
- A hexproof creature Troll Ascetic and Worship - against an opponent with no sweepers and targeted removal.
- Establishing a Platinum Angel and hooking up Lightning Greaves to give it that 'hexproof' style - against an opponent with no artifact removal/no sweepers.
- A favorite, Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir and Knowledge Pool prevents opponents from casting any cards as the resolving Knowledge Pool trigger is at instant speed - Note this is not a lock against Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger cast trigger which can exile the components of the lock.
Example of a Non-Lock but perceived as a Lock
- Infinite Combos - Gaining absurd amounts of life may be a way to define that you are now 'unkillable' but this does not eliminate other win conditions or an equally infinite damage combo in return.
- Infinite Loops with No Progression - If your opponent can infinitely take turns, it does not mean they have won. They may lack a win condition. A great example of this was the recent Arena issues with Nexus of Fate.
There is a critical line to play between online and paper though. The Clock or Time in the Round. Unlike online where you have the ability to time out your opponent, paper if you cannot complete a game it becomes a draw and the person with the most wins does win. This doesn't mean you must concede as soon as an appeared lock is established. In many cases, you can attempt to play on for some time but then allow your opponent to play 'another' card and then scoop up your cards to save time. What this does is allows you to acquire more knowledge if your opponent is playing cards, while giving your opponent more cards to consider in your pull of playable cards. Keep in mind time in the round though, you do not want to give yourself too little time to complete the rounds, and Enough of a Lock may be sufficient grounds to concede versus waiting for a Full Lock.
==Transformational Sideboards==
I simply want to note this briefly before the analysis. Many people find cute and fun ways to 'transform their sideboards' to try and trick their opponents by going a different line of attack. Keep in mind that transformational sideboards tend to be one dimensional. The critical piece for a transformational sideboard is to determine the weak matchups and tune the transformation around these. If you are heavy control, you play against an opponent that is heavy control, and transform into a midrange, it likely is not a good idea. If you instead trasnform into an aggro package it will work wonders. That being said if you are a softer control deck with an aggro tansformational sideboard, and play against a fast linear deck, you may have minimal extra disruption. This is what I'd call a under prepared, bad matchup, or a narrow focus of the deck building strategy. There is nothing wrong, in fact having an exact mission is great, just note your focal mission, if it has a flaw or a bad matchup, nothing much is going to change and you will have a higher percentage chance of taking a match loss due to this building decsion.
For what you are all here for the analysis, review, commentary, and discussion on the deck types below.
Red Prison
AKA: Pyro Prison, Mono Red Prison, Red Prison, (Legacy) Dragon Stompy
The deck is what most people here are familiar with. We have several variations of the deck to include Aggro packages (+ Legion Warboss and +Eidolon of the Great Revel main), and Control packages (usually planeswalker or more sweeper based). The deck hinges on fast explosive starts to get ahead of an opponent regardless of the dice roll. The package can have elements of 'all-in' but attempts in the Prison Fashion to limit the opponent's ability to play on curve to bide time in our all-in approach.
Pros
- Fast and Explosive to apply pressure or apply locks
- Proactive end game. Established locks usually have good quick follow up to minimize opponents time to draw out
- Meta Targeting - When tuned can establish easier wins against Top Tier Decks while not straying far from the main focal gameplan.
Cons
- All In Strategy - If you put your resources all in one line, and it is easily removed the battle becomes uphill.
- Consistency - I only put this here as people argue it frequently. It may have some issues here, but the principal of lengthening a game out provides the ability to draw out. Yes it may not have filtering, your opponent should not have much either once you've put a lock piece out.
- Single Color - This I'll put more in the con section then pro for now. The con being the limited access to an alternate sideboard, the pro being you should rarely have mana issues.
Pyro Prison || ClassicMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards Locks (13)
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
1 Magus of the Moon
Creatures (5)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Hazoret the Fervent
Planeswalkers (5)
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Koth of the Hammer
Sweeper Removal/Utility Removal (7)
3 Abrade
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Slagstorm
2 Walking BallistaRituals/Fast Mana (9)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
Lands (21)
14 Mountains
3 Gemstone Caverns
3 Ramunap Ruins
1 Scavenger GroundsSIDEBOARD
3 Ravenous Trap
3 Anger of the Gods
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Torpor Orb
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Grafdigger's CageAlternate Sideboard
1 Damping Matrix
1 Spellskite
1 Witchbane Orb
Card Decisions
Pyro Prison's fundamental approach is a stronger lock piece and a fast finish. The card choices to help this include:
- Ensnaring Bridge - Preventing large creatures attacking gives planeswalkers or hordes of goblins to be created to swing in for victory
- Blood Moon - Limiting the opponent's ability to play magic or ability to remove threats
- Rabble Master or Planesalker - These are the finishers, and many planeswalkers Emblem quickly or Rabblemaster + Tokens finish the game quickly if unanswered.
- Chalice of the Void - With Modern's overall Mana curve reducing for efficient spells, the more the deck becomes susceptible to fast Chalices.
- Ritual/Fast Mana - You'll note in the decklist I call these fast mana. Their only purpose is to power things out ahead of curve. This is a downfall later in the game but is a card and deck building decision to get ahead of the curve.
The other cards not highlighted depend on your flare or version and your meta. Because this deck attacks the meta probably the strongest of the three examples tuning your utility is important. In this example, it is Abrade the Sweepers and Walking Ballista. This final card can be a win condition or removal for pesky bigger creatures/planeswalkers.
The Sideboard
Because of limited access to colors targeting specific matchups is important. A concession for Leyline of the Void is Ravenous Trap as many decks interacting with their graveyard do attack via creatures, thus having an uncastable card, not in the opener conflicts with your main lock pieces of Ensnaring Bridge. There are additional sweepers, aggro pieces, and artifact-based lock pieces. The downside to this and not branching to Enchantments or other abilities is your opponent's artifact removal packages will be coming in for games 2 and 3. This is a deck building concession for staying in a singleton color, but you'll note that some of these along with mainboard locks do present a difficult time for our opponents to cast their necessary removal.
RW Prison
AKA: White Pyro Prison (Only in this thread really), Sun & Moon Prison, RW Taxes, PLATEAU PRISON (By Raystack), Eclipse Prison
The common theme among any white based deck or proposal of white based decks is the sideboard. Sun & Moon presents incredibly powerful threatening sideboard cards, but becomes softer with the locks and proactive gameplan mainboard. The deck itself functions on two axis one is the Prison "Sun & Moon" utilizing similar strategies to Red Prison while attempting a planeswalker (control) based finish. The other entirely different build lends itself more to the "Tax" variant, not necessarily limiting the resources for which an opponent may attack, but rather, providing decision choices for your opponent because the curve has been adjusted due to the taxing/higher cost imposed on performing actions during the game.
Pros
- Diversification into another color allows a great card pool for deck building
- Powerfull top end can allow for a more diverse Mid/Late game then a more all-in prison build
- Typical builds are not as tuned to one set of 75 cards, leaving some unknowns for your opponent, the deck can be tuned towards a meta, albeit it goes extremely hard on that tuning, example Supression Field.
Cons
- Locks tend to be softer. The list provided making a Top 8 finish happens to use Bridge but many have opted for Ghostly Prison.
- Multi Colors, Multiple Pips, and Blood Moon do not always go to gether nicely.
- Locks without aggro or midrange threats tend to give opponents longer to find solutions. The version linked to me removes this con by going more Red Prison like.
- Sideboard tends to be in one direction (control), removing typically threats slowing the deck down for stronger lock pieces. You can say this is a pro or a con, based on meta.
Sun & Moon || RW PrisonMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards Locks (12)
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
Creatures (10)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Hazoret the Fervent
4 Legion Warboss
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
Planeswalkers (7)
1 Ajani Vengeant
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Sarkhan, FirebloodRemoval (2)
2 Abrade
Rituals/Fast Mana (8)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
Lands (21)
4 Arid Mesa
3 Gemstone Caverns
4 Inspiring Vantage
4 Mountain
3 Plains
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Wooded FoothillsSIDEBOARD
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Damping Sphere
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Rest in Peace
1 Sorcerous SPyglass
2 Stony Silence
1 Torpor Orb
2 Wrath of God
Card Decisions
Sun & Moon's fundamental approach is a softer lock piece broader flexibility for matchups and control based finishes. The list provided has done well recently and is melding towards Pyro Prison/Red Prison. I'll note card choice differences below.
- Lack of Rituals - Gives the deck not as explosive of a start, but removes air for top decks. The deck performs closer to "Mid Range Prison" then "Aggro Prison"
- Planeswalkers - There are typically more planeswalkers or top end. Once you get to these land counts your threats are that much more important for an opponent to deal with.
- Rest in Peace, Leyline of Sanctity, Stony Silence - These are what I'd call 'silver bullets' which shut down a large portion of an opponents deck and are very strong.
The Sideboard
I pick three cards to talk about from the sideboard noting they are strong, some of the strongest shut downs to decks that care about Targeting a player, graveyard, or artifacts. Because typically there is removal of speed and proactive cards for this controlling piece you are on a hinge for if your lock piece stays in. Remembering your opponent is bringing in ways to unlock their deck the sideboard has to be one of the strongest hate cards in magic, and white does this very well compared to most. The sideboard though is filled with strictly control based cards, alternatively going another route post board becomes that much more difficult, and if you need to step on the gas you've lost this. Although the sideboard is not strictly transformational, it focuses on answering issues which inherently pushes it one direction.
RB Prison
AKA: Master Prison (Creator's name), Red Black Prison, Dark Pyro (I disagree to some extent this name, but know some are calling it this).
This is the new kid on the block for some, for others, it is a tried and old tale of a variation we've yet to master or establish within the community. I believe many people will actually start to consider this list as an alternative to their Mono Red Variants for a taste of something 'with more'. Whether you want to call it a splash from Pyro, or a side page of Jund the deck features a mid-range prison style with powerful answers while taxing the mana base to the fullest in any prison archetype (I'm ignoring you 4c Whir, you just cheat stuff in). This list I'll go a touch more in depth I think in my analysis strictly as Red Prison is the thread, and RW has been talked about frequently.
Pros
- Power level of cards has been upped to the next level. Concessions for staying in one color are thrown out the door deliberately in the main deck
- Heavy creatureless build blanks a large portion of removal, and many lists will retain creature removal post-board due to Red Prison's Rabblemaster side effect
- Black provides a level of interaction to the opponent that Red or White does not provide. Red interacts typically with the field of play, White typically reacts with the state of the board or protecting self. You'll have heard me say this Pyro Prison presents a proactive solution attempting to end the game with our card options. White variants try to be reactive. - This version does both
- Flexibility of card choices and targets is widened. Abrade versus Kohlagan's Command. It could be deemed as RB's version of Cryptic.
Cons
- The mana base is brutal. There are a significant number of double black pips that have to be considered, and this can awkwardly strand cards in hand when using a bridge lock.
- The kill for the game tends to be a bit slower, but this is countered with the lock pieces have a lot more help staying afloat in many cases.
- Self Inflicted damage or card discard can make lines of play more interesting but much more detrimental to the end game result. Fetching/Shocking is giving your Dredge or Burn opponents a free spell, versus simpler mana bases avoid this.
- The elements don't always work 'together' as optimally as you think, but there is a fine line between knowing 'should I activate' or 'should I wait' and this many people picking up the list to try out will argue is the reason they lost. Essentially the learning curve I'd put almost higher then Pyro Prison.
Master Prison - JakesMTG || (RB Prison, Dark Pyro)Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards Locks (12)
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
1 Magus of the Moon
Creatures (13)
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Master of Cruelties
Planeswalkers (4)
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
Utility (12)
1 Abrade
4 Collective Brutality
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Bedevil
2 Kolaghan's CommandMini Threat/Fast Mana (4)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Lands (22)
3 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Graven Cairns
3 Mountain
9 Swamp
1 Temple of MaliceSIDEBOARD
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Crumble to Dust
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Slaughter Games
1 Kolaghan's Command
Card Decisions
RB appears to try and answer the Red Prison's flaws with the decks. Creatures too big to kill, just enough interaction, and ways to prevent the runaway of our opponent's control on the game. Below I'll give card discussion and then talk sideboard with a final note of an opinion on this newcomer versus Pyro Prison. I will ignore card choices that overlap (The lock pieces) as these should be apparent.
- Graven Cairns and Bloodstained Mire - Notably missing Gemstone Caverns - This is a nod to "I do not need to be fast." Actually starting with a fetch land or a dual land usually intices your opponent to not fetch basics, at least for now while the deck is not as obvious. This likely will change. Specifically, these cards though give you the "Double Black" without Blood Moon, or give you the opportunity to fetch a Basic Swamp. The 9 swamps are critical though and you are looking at double pips on both red and black. There is no room for Gemstone in the greedy manabase, versus RW where it is not as heavily reliant on double pips.
- Bedevil - The card is hyper flexible, kills the creatures we tend to struggle with, and picks off a few artifacts on route. Planeswalkers that establish and we get stuck under (LOTV, Jace, Teferi, Other Chandra's) are problem cards. We attempt to deal with them by swinging in Goblins or picking them off with Walking Ballista. This card just says "No thanks" and can be left open. It is a card you don't wish to dump to get to 0 for bridge, and it is a card you hold and don't uptick with Liliana of the Veil if you don't have to. This card if I could just take it and splash for it in Red Prison... I probably would. Assassin's Trophy is just better some will say. I'll pay 1 more and prevent the search of a basic land. Blood Moon thanks you for your extra pip.
- Kolaghan's Command has been discussed. I've heard time and time again "There are no creatures to recur with it" and... that's correct. Artifact removal, small creature removal, and discard removal. Against Tron this is amazing. We get to top decking and you can just clear a turn out because very little is at instant speed. Review this card like a utility swiss army knife, and know when it doesn't do enough, but know when it does just more.
- Collective Brutality - is an odd one to help with Bridge, to remove or check for counters and clear the way, or remove spells/gain a little life. It helps undo the fetching we are doing to correct manabases, and is a nice premium removal with flexibility. We praise Abrade and this just has an extra mode while enabling our bridge. Oh, it backs the rule of thumb, no 1 CMC spells.
- Master of Cruelties - The first card I'd cut before playing the deck. The absolute last card I would cut now. Incidental life gain, difficult opponents, needing to 'flip the switch' in a turn or two. This card is for you. It is a wall, it blocks, it threatens, its small enough for bridge, yet big enough to miss Bolt/Fatal Push. It falls short to Disemember & Path to Exile, as does Hazoret. If it connects, you have numerous cards that just win you the game, and it didn't matter how much life your opponent was at. It blocks big things and small things. Basically, give it a try... don't just cut it before you get a game or two with it.
- Leyline of the Void and Slaughter Games - Are two sideboard cards. See sideboard section.
The Sideboard
Ravenous Trap is considered a lot for our graveyard-based decks. It is like firing a bullet on target and hitting home. That being said they reload the target and move forward. This can be the case. I would call this card just shy of a silver bullet. Silver bullets are in the forms of shutting a deck down. Stony Silence as an example for artifacts. So what does this deck do? Leyline of the Void just does this. I have personally scooped against dredge showing no cards to just put this card in. Because we spoke to the no-air rituals and power level of the cards being higher you can normally find enough win conditions post board to risk the Leyline silver bullet.
The other card is a pet card of mine in BTL Scapeshift. Many a times BTL Black Scapeshift I can get away with casting BTL, they want to counter the next card. Fine, I'll go get Slaughter Games oops you can't counter. Let me tell you the power level here. The opponent is Ad Nauseum. On T3 I opt to use SSG (which cannot be countered) and cast Slaughter Games. I name Ad Nauseum, opponent scoops. Against Amulet Titan I've named Primeval Titan... I took 4 shots from Azusa, Lost but Seeking before finally finding removal for it, but that was 4 turns extra. The card just eats important cards in opponents decks. To boot, it is a sorcery (so what?) it doesn't stick around, no removal, no getting those cards back, they're gone.
An Opinion
Pyro Prison struggles against some of the more powerful and flexible midrange decks. It also falls to Dredge though I know some are working to get that to work. This deck seems to answer those issues, this is why I'd call it the Yin/Yang to Pyro Prison. If you can navigate the tricky manabase, appropriately cement powerful cards, and put your opponent on the back foot, this deck can just roll over them.
Alternate Prisons
I'm not going to list decklists here, but talk briefly about the two I can think of.
- Whir Prison (4c Prison) - Is an extremely good toolbox based deck. It looks to take any of those hard/soft locks, and find them in time. If you needed 6 cards to lock it out, this deck will do it. This comes close to the 'true lock' but falls short to board wipes aimed at artifacts.
- Lantern Control - This my friends is the only deck in my opinion which can create the true lock. What is meant by this is that we can play 4 of cards. Lantern control utilizes deck knowledge, top deck information, and controlling your opponents draws. It is essentially "Mind Slaver Lite" but establishes a true lock by preventing enough consecutive answers from being potentially drawn. It takes patience to not 'attempt to mill faster' and suffers from time management by newer pilots. A seasoned pilot though, a quick thoughtseize, and a pair of mill stones with lantern out and game is likely locked out.
- Green Land Destruction - I'll place this in prison only because it tries to Plow Under or Primeval Command the opponent enough to time walk them into losing from creature attacks. It restricts mana similar to taxing but falls under prison/control by limiting resources. It is an honorable mention.
- Stax Lists - not as prevalent in modern, but do the same concepts and something to watch for. At FNM level they are a blast! Have fun, honorable mention #2
Concluding Prison
There are many archetypes, versions, variations, and styles of magic decks. This is the beauty of magic. I always recommend you determine the style of player you wish to be, and build towards that or find the deck that does this. Prison offers a lot of styles. Finally, prison decks are tuned towards metas in many cases and sideboard plans will vary drastically on the style of play you wish to attempt to manipulate your opponent into playing. Have a blast trying these, talk, discuss, and find that sweet card you want to run at FNM, find that optimized list for a GP, and good luck as you lock'em out of the game, and lock in the wins. I'll see you in discord, on stream, on twitter, in here! Happy Locking Mountainfolk!
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Raystack posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard DeckPosted in: ControlPlateau Prison
"To drive your enemies before you. To hear the lamentations of their women. To strand your foe upon a highly elevated, steep-faced, windswept plain. Prevent their escape. Force them to abandon all attempts to play Magic."
The Art of Magic
- ’Stack Tzu
Will these cheeky words prophesize a birth of a dominant R/w Pyro Prison architecture? Will they? Nahhh, I doubt it. Heh heh. Shadowrider created the blending of white into 'The Stock List' to gallop into a Top 8 finish in a Saturday Classic, 100+ competitors, a couple weeks ago. And, I saw another couple pilots score 5-0s with similar lists - including our Russ Colosi.
A Flash in the Pan or a deck that's here to stay? Well, as always, that depends upon the meta. I fired off (4) tournaments yesterday: 0-2, 3-2, 3-2, 2-3. As the day drew on, I tinkered with the deck construction. It ended up being different than my previous posting by the following numbers:
MAINDECK: [3 cards] MINUS Chandra, Torch of Defiance, Lightning Helix, Legion Warboss ||| PLUS Leyline of Sanctity, Pyretic Ritual, Pia & Kiran Nalaar
SIDEBOARD: [3 cards] MINUS Leyline of Sanctity, Worship, Deflecting Palm ||| PLUS Dragon's Claw, Spellskite, Dire Fleet Daredevil
The improvements were marked and expected. Mainboard: I already identified Chandra/Lightning Helix as my 59th/60th cards in need of upgrades. And, Pyretic Ritual? C'Mon! You know I can't quit you! You're back, baby. Sideboard: Dragon's Claw addresses omnipresent red. Spellskite is the same thing & redundancy for locks, plus it's a horror vs. Titi. Dire Fleet Daredevil is straight up a devious selection that capitalizes on the heavy spell decks that are everywhere. Honestly, if I had this construction in the early tournaments, I definitely think I could have swung an extra win in each round.
Revised List
Pyro Prison || Plateau PrisonMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards LOCKS (16)
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Blood Moon
3 Eidolon of the Great Revel
1 Leyline of Sanctity
CREATURES (8)
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Legion Warboss
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
PLANESWALKERS (3)
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
REMOVAL (3)
1 Slagstorm
1 Collective Defiance
1 Engineered ExplosivesACCELERATORS (9)
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
LANDS (21)
6 Mountains
2 Plains
4 Arid Mesa
4 Inspiring Vantage
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Rugged Prairie
3 Gemstone Caverns*SIDEBOARD*
2 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Torpor Orb
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Dragon's Claw
1 Spellskite
1 Dire Fleet Daredevil
So, this is a R/w Decklist, right? Then, where are the white cards? Maindeck count: 1. ONE? Well, in defense of Leyline, it IS a helluva choice. Besides, I was running Witchbane Orb in the maindeck for a while. To be fair, Engineered Explosives could be considered a white card, and it has been gangbusters. Well, is white worth it? Hmmmm. The answer is found in the sideboard. Enough? Well, maybe. White mana requirements severely hamper smooth land development. The recent adjustments may make a powerful case for R/W, but I'm going to rule in favor of.....
MONO-RED PYRO PRISON.
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ashtonkutcher posted a message on Colorless Eldrazi StompyPosted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
1 firs then 0. 1 Turns off Stirrings and Amulet which are their primary enablers. 0 counters Pact which is a payoff, and Explosives which removes Chalice, so you can wait a little before deploying it.Quote from jokerstyle00 »Quote from ashtonkutcher »
I have found this matchup to be very easy. Fast Chalice on 1 is great; on 0 is also powerful. TKS wrecks them as does Ghost Quarter. Ratchet fine to bring in post-board to deal with stray Amulets but mostly to power through Hornet Queen tokens if it comes to that; otherwise, the mainboard is well-equipped.Quote from jokerstyle00 »So how do people approach big mana matchups? Tron's a little more clear cut, but my LGS has two Amulet Titan players and I always seem to get matched up with at least one of them. Any things in particular to keep in mind against an Amulet Titan player?
Thanks for the info! Random question, without hand info, which is better, Chalice on 0 or 1? -
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ashtonkutcher posted a message on Colorless Eldrazi StompyPosted in: Deck Creation (Modern)
I have found this matchup to be very easy. Fast Chalice on 1 is great; on 0 is also powerful. TKS wrecks them as does Ghost Quarter. Ratchet fine to bring in post-board to deal with stray Amulets but mostly to power through Hornet Queen tokens if it comes to that; otherwise, the mainboard is well-equipped.Quote from jokerstyle00 »So how do people approach big mana matchups? Tron's a little more clear cut, but my LGS has two Amulet Titan players and I always seem to get matched up with at least one of them. Any things in particular to keep in mind against an Amulet Titan player? -
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rothgar13 posted a message on Modern SpiritsDon't read too much into the sideboard of decks seeing play in small local metas. Stuff gets kind of wacky in those environments.Posted in: Aggro & Tempo -
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Caligula posted a message on Pyro Prison || Goblinized Mono-Red Control : The Sideboard DeckPosted in: ControlQuote from Hadji Halef Ibrahim »I am new to the deck and have a few questions. Mainly about why certain cards aren't being played.
Why do none of the current decks play bolt spells like Magma Jet, Rift Bolt or Lightning Helix in R/W variants? Sweepers I see, but they will hurt you yourself as well if you have goblins in play. I also feel like Abrade,if played, is the preferred choice over bolts but its also more likely to be a dead card than bolts.
Also I don't see Trinisphere in any sideboards. I would have thought it would be a strong SB option against alot of decks. Izzet Phoenix, Burn, GDS, Scales, Storm, Bogles, Infect for example would struggle against 3 ball.
The last card I never see in sideboards is Scab-Clan Berserker. Eidolon is the prefered choice. I would think SCB would be a better fit as we get 3 mana quick. The damage ability is the same in most cases but it's a bigger body. What am I missing?
Magma Jet used to be the spot removal of choice before Abrade was printed, and was replaced because Abrade is just more versatile. Yes, it's a dead card in a few matchups but three damage over two is actually huge, and the added bonus of being artifact removal makes it the overall best choice for the slot. MD sweepers offer outs against go-wide strategies in game one, so Slagstorm has usually been the choice since you can send it to face instead of nuking your own goblins. Slagstorm isn't great in this meta, so you're starting to see more Angers main.
Trinisphere has been tested by a number of people a number of times, and unfortunately, it's just not good enough. Trust me here, we have some huge fans of 3-ball, if it could work, it would be played.
Eidolon is one mana cheaper than Scabby, which is relevant when you see how crowded the 3-drop slot is. Eidolon always deals two, hits creature spells as well, and Scabby never gets through in alot of matchups. I personally have ran both at the same time when Storm was really popular, and I do like Scab-clan, but we only have room for one or the other. Eidolon is strictly better.
Card selections may seem strange together at times in this deck, but make sense the more you learn how to play it. You have to think about the deck as two halves, aggro and control. As the control deck (vs GDS), goblins come out, control cards come in, and locking the opponent down and winning through five or six wincons becomes the plan. As the aggro deck (vs Tron), Bridges and irrelevant removal/lock pieces come out for extra gas. Some matchups, however, aren't as clear cut. Take for example, Mardu Pyromancer. Anger is good here, however, so is Rabblemaster. It comes down to attrition. In matchups like these, we take bridges out, leave creatures in, but also bring in sweepers. I've played a Rabble and followed up with Anger the next turn many times in this particular matchup, and nobody would ever expect that line. While it may look odd on paper, it definitely works. -
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Conclave assures opponent won't untap with Liliana, so we don't have to leave up counterspell mana in early turns against grindy decks.Posted in: Aggro & Tempo - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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Back from hiatus and playing MTG again, and I am VERY excited to see we have some new converts to Ele-Combo/Shotgun.
Honestly, I don't run white in my build. I just use Apostle's Blessing. 2 life isn't as big a a deal as being able to stick to a more stable manabase, plus most of the time (at least from my experience), you only really need one of your dudes to have protection after they're pumped up. If anyone's interested in my build, I can repost it.
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7 Plains
4 Swamp
4 Isolated Chapel
3 Windswept Heath
3 Windbrisk Heights
2 Godless Shrine
1 Vault of the Archangel
Creatures
2 Tidehollow Sculler
Spells
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Path to Exile
4 Lingering Souls
4 Spectral Procession
4 Raise the Alarm
4 Intangible Virtue
3 Honor of the Pure
3 Zealous Persecution
2 Thoughtseize
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Auriok Champion
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Dismember
2 Stony Silence
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Hero of Bladehold
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
I'm aware I should get more fetches and more Godless Shrines, but I'm currently limited by budget and by what I own...groceries on a college budget take precedence, unfortunately. Gotta eat.
I did start by using a Modern Event Deck 2014 and by building from there; even with a jacked up price nowadays, it's still a heap of great value.
As for my actual games, the first Delver deck was an odd combo variation that was attempting to either cripple me with Blood Moon and/or cast this massive GW Wurm whose name currently escapes me. I took the Wurm first game using Tidehollow Sculler and he wasn't able to draw into any red sources to get rid of it, strangely enough. The second game went a little more bumpily, but I eventually just overwhelmed him with tokens.
Elves was a decently challenging match, but I was eventually able to get anthems both games, and after siding in second game, I took him down using a pumped up Mirran Crusader.
Grixis Delver was probably my most challenging matchup, but even so, it went relatively well. First game, we spent the first three or four turns trading off tokens and Delvers; he oddly wasn't able to flip until turn 3, which worked in my favor. Second game, he got rid of my first Relic but I drew a second one immediately afterwards. He also had to use the majority of his K. Commands and Bolts in order to remove my spirits, which worked in my favor. Eventually it came down to topdecking Elspeth my second game for a perfect 7 damage to round out the match.
As for personal thoughts, I severely underestimated the usefulness of Zealous Persecution. That thing saved my butt numerous times against Delver. On other notes, I really like the disruption I can use with Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize; there were several times during both Delver games where both players decided to counter it, so I got my two for one either way. The Grixis Delver player especially didn't want me to see his hand it seems.
Anyways, that was my first event using this deck, and I got to say, I really enjoyed playing BW Tokens. Yes, it may not be as ridiculously unfair or combo-y as some other decks, but I like how it can still win using its own strategies.
So those are my two cents!
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I'm back in the US and I was playing at my local store with this list:
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Steam Vents
4 Blood Crypt
5 Mountain
1 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (10)
4 Nivmagus Elemental
4 Kiln Fiend
2 Flamekin Harbinger
4 Apostle's Blessing
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Assault Strobe
4 Slaughter Pact
4 Ground Rift
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Distortion Strike
3 Tainted Strike
2 Gut Shot
3 Dismember
2 Rending Volley
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Spell Pierce
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Dragon's Claw
I went 2-0 against what appeared to be a budget Artifact-themed build, 2-0 against Bloom Titan, and 2-1 against Monoblue Tron. Besides the one loss against Tron, all my games ended in three turns or less.
I'm very satisfied with the current iteration of this deck; I rarely have to mulligan, and when I do, I can still go off fairly easily. In addition, it just feels extremely smooth to play, and it's intensely satisfying to end multiple games by turn 3 despite my opponents' best efforts. I was honestly surprised I did so well against Monoblue Tron though; that deck is usually an uphill battle for me.
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*EDIT*
Got crushed, due to having an unstable land base. Even with the Spirit Guides, 16 lands is just too few. In addition, Tainted Strike wasn't popping up at the right times for me and I played against two terrible matchups: BW Tokens and Mononblue Tron. Stupid Chalice Of The Void.
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I actually started writing a primer for a Blue-Red version of this deck before I stumbled onto this thread.
This is a mostly budget version that clocks in around $150, and it's pretty fun to play.
I've piloted my version into two Modern events so far and I did reasonably well, at least with the first event. Went 2-1 last Friday and 1-2 today. Here's my list.
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Steam Vents
4 Sulfur Falls
2 Island
5 Mountain
Creatures (10)
4 Nivmagus Elemental
4 Kiln Fiend
2 Flamekin Harbinger
2 Artful Dodge
2 Gut Shot
4 Assault Strobe
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Ground Rift
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Apostle's Blessing
3 Dismember
3 Rending Volley
2 Pyroclasm
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Spell Pierce
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Dragon's Claw
Last Friday, I played Affinity, Griselbrand Shoal, and Jund in that order. I annihilated Affinity thanks to the guy having terrible luck with mulligans, and I was able to outrace Griselbrand Shoal 2/3 of our games. The main problem is Jund, thanks to their abundant removal, discard, and cards like Tarmogoyf and Liliana of the Veil. I either sacrificed, discarded or lost Kiln Fiend and Nivmagus Elemental games two and three, although I was able to outrace them on game one.
Tonight was unfortunate in that I almost beat out monoblue Tron except they got Karn, Liberated out game three. Game one I hit em with a turn two kill (perfect god hand, good grief), and game two I mulliganed down to 5, hence losing out to their Platinum Angel. Game three, I almost sealed the deal with a Lightning Bolt but they countered it at the last moment. Match two was a lot better; I played against a guy using a Bitterblossom based token deck. He didn't realize until after he played Bitterblossom that I was playing Elemental Combo, and he burned himself to death after I hit him for 18 over two turns. Game two was the same; he even still played Bitterblossom, which really surprised me. Match three was Affinity's revenge though. In some cruel twist of fate I ended up playing the shop owner and he wiped me out first game with a pumped up Inkmoth Nexus and then game two with a pumped up Etched Champion.
What I've noticed (and this is probably blatantly obvious but I'll say it anyways) is that we don't seem to have any answers to evasive creatures besides praying we get a Lightning Bolt, and that we really have no resistance to removal or discard. Blue helps with some cheap counterspells though. Having played the primer's Black-Red version and the original list created by the SCG Blue Team, though, blue-red seems to be a lot more stable than red-black. Sure we get to have Tainted Strike, Death's Shadow, and even Inquisition of Kozilek, but like one of the above posters said, we don't have a long-term game plan. In the games I've played this in addition to the aforementioned events, more than 75 percent of the time, if the game dragged on past turn 4 or 5, I fizzled out. That being said, I've been able to last longer and get more reliable output from the deck by running blue over black, thanks to the addition of Serum Visions and Artful Dodge. Makes me wonder if we should try siding in cards like Fling or Rite of Consumption (if we happen to run black) to get some emergency direct damage in.
I don't know, this is just my two cents and experiences so far with the archetype. What are everyone's thoughts?
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