MTG Salvation

I literally just finished building Humans and now I want to build this list. It looks so beautifully janky.

Only some goldfishing, which had some initially promising results. Right now my LGS is infested with big mana (Amulet, Tron), Phoenix, GBx, Burn and Jeskai Tempo/Control. Besides Burn, I can't say for sure which of those matchups are in my favor, and right now I'm hunting for a good deck that'll punish Amulet especially. I already own Ponza and Red Prison but I'd rather take a break from em.

Thank you for the tips! How many lands should I go up to, 22 or 23?

This is the list I've been messing around with so far:

In my case I do own a full set of Mutas, but I don't have enough money to splurge on a Minamo. In addition to the nice points about Conclave you posted, I also was worried about having a match where I wouldn't be able to turn on Island walk and would have to grind; I was expecting to face more creature based decks instead of the huge number of combo/big mana decks I went up against.

So after discovering some cards I didn't realize I had while also discovering I lacked play sets of others, here's my updated list that I'm bringing to a side event tomorrow at GP LA.



Will try and report back my results!

Quote from rothgar13 »

Feeling good about it. Those 3 matchups you mentioned are all in our favor, as are Burn and Shadow (two other major players). Various Merfolk pilots have been crushing it on Magic Online.

I'll definitely give Merfolk a try at the side event I'm going to on Friday. If things go well (I've got a good feeling), I'm gonna go back to the Fish for the main event on Saturday. I've seen some recent lists not run the full four Spreading Seas in main because of all the island based decks.

This is the list I've tentatively decided on:

I have both decks and originally started out as a Death & Taxes player, so I'll try and do a little blurb on both. Also read the primers for both decks, the two threads have excellent writers, and make sure to watch some YouTube gameplay of both.

Bant Spirits
Pros
+Is easier to pilot than BW Eldrazi Taxes.
+Almost all of the creatures have flying; the natural evasion is VERY difficult for many decks to deal with.
+Manabase is more stable thanks to the ability to fetch all 3 colors and having no colorless mana restrictions.
+With Noble Hierarchs/Birds of Paradise (budget), you can pull off some nutty plays like a turn 2 Geist of Saint Traft or a turn 3 Collected Company.
+The deck plays at instant speed, through Aether Vial, creatures with flash, and Collected Company, making removal and counters much more difficult for your opponent, also lets you bluff or fake out an opponent just by leaving lands/mana up.
+Since most lists runs about 10 or less non-creature spells, Bant Spirits is largely resistant to decks that focus on punishing non-creature spells, and will not necessarily lose if you're unable to play Vial or Company, or one of them gets Surgically Extracted.
+Creatures have powerful abilities that allow for interaction with the opponent or protecting your board state, such as Spell Queller, Mausoleum Wanderer, Rattlechains, and Selfless Spirit, while acting as additional threats in the meanwhile.
+The primary lord, Drogskol Captain, is capable of creating a "soft lock" where playing two will give all your spirits Hexproof, making them immune to everything except bigger creatures, sacrifice effects, or boardwipes.
+Playing Green, Blue, and White gives us access to some of the best sideboard cards in the game, such as Rest in Peace, Stony Silence, Knight of Autumn, and counterspells such as Ceremonious Rejection, Unified Will, and Disdainful Stroke.

Cons
-Limited interaction with your opponent outside of creatures. Pre-board, there aren't many options for dealing with non-instant/sorcery spells outside of Spell Queller or Deputy of Detention. Furthermore, many of your creatures' interactions occur only once upon ETB, such as Spell Queller or Deputy of Detention, or require sacrifices to be used, such as Mausoleum Wanderer or Selfless Spirit. This can make matchups against big mana decks such as Tron or Amulet Titan, or combo decks like Storm, into races.
-As a creature-based tempo deck, boardwipes can cripple us if we dump everything onto the field or have no means of interacting with them through a Queller.
-In addition to the above point, the strength of the deck is manifested in our board state; if we're unable to maintain a good number of creatures, our deck loses out on power.
-Manabase is three color, therefore you will be pinging yourself through shocks and fetches. Sometimes you might also have a hand you can't play due to color restrictions, and depending on the boardstate/lands we have, a Blood Moon can be crippling.
-$$$$$$$$ - Many of the most important cards in the deck are expensive, such as Noble Hierarch, Aether Vial, Collected Company, and the manabase.

BW Eldrazi and Taxes
Pros
+Has access to some incredibly powerful creatures main deck, such as Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Thought-Knot Seer, Dark Confidant and Tidehollow Sculler. Furthermore, your white creatures serve as taxes that cannot be dodged until said creatures are killed or otherwise dealt with, as opposed to Spirits where their creatures usually only trigger their interaction with the opponent once.
+A lot of the creatures are incredibly synergistic. Tidehollow Sculler can steal a card from your opponent/Flickerwisp can remove a card for a turn, allowing you to process the removed card with Wasteland Strangler. Not only does the exiled card go into the opponent's graveyard, but you've also killed one of their creatures! Using Leonin Arbiter, Path to Exile becomes arguably the best removal spell ever printed in Magic, and Ghost Quarter becomes a better Wasteland.
+Since the deck runs a fair bit of hand disruption, you usually have an idea of what your opponent has in hand; perfect information is one of the most powerful assets in Magic.
+Through Aether Vial allowing instant speed, uncounterable creatures, the deck is able to cripple opponents for making common Modern plays. Flashing in a Leonin Arbiter when they fetch usually means an opponent has time-walked themselves on mana and lost a life to boot. You can also flash in Tidehollow Skuller after they've drawn for the turn and steal their newest card. Another trick is one of the most complicated interactions in the deck, but flickering a Tidehollow Sculler with a vialed in Flickerwisp or through a Restoration Angel allows you to permanently remove one of your opponent's cards and steal another one.
+Has more powerful finishers through Eldrazi than regular Death and Taxes, as Thought-Knot Seer is a 4/4 that can come down on turn 3 or even turn 2 depending on how many Eldrazi Temples you have online. Eldrazi Displacer also allows you to continuously recycle your own ETB effects, which can be incredibly powerful depending on the build you play.
+White has some of the best sideboard cards in Magic, while black offers removal and hand disruption through cards like Fatal Push, Inquisition of Kozilek, and Thoughtseize. Kambal, Consul of Allocation is also an excellent card that punishes a wide range of decks for playing non-creature spells.

Cons
-The manabase. In my opinion, BW Eldrazi & Taxes has one of the worst, if not THE worst manabases in all of Modern. This is compounded by the fact that a good number of your creatures require colorless mana to be played or to activate their effects, and you cannot run fetches due to the nature of Leonin Arbiter. While Aether Vial can alleviate some of this, it also means that losing a Vial can be crippling or even game-ending depending on your mana situation, compared to Spirits or Merfolk where losing a Vial is annoying but not a serious loss. Essentially, you're playing a three color deck with no fetches, mana dorks, or other means of fixing your mana. I've lost games due to not having mana when I've needed it, or drawing it too late. Hitting my own lands with Ghost Quarter to fix mana is not an uncommon situation. Also, Blood Moon can be virtually game-ending, and Merfolk can be considered a poor matchup due to their ability to turn your lands into Islands through Sea's Claim and Spreading Seas, while also becoming unblockable.
-Playing any Taxes style deck requires knowledge about the current metagame, popular decks, and common creatures/spells. The more you make an effort to learn the meta and how Taxes interacts with them, the better you will do. However, the reverse is also true. This is a deck that demands smart decision-making, sequencing, knowledge of triggers and the stack, and match-up knowledge. If you lack any of the aforementioned, matches will be that much more difficult for you.
-Like Bant Spirits, the majority of your interaction and game plan comes from having creatures on the battlefield. This deck shares the same weakness of Spirits, Merfolk, and other creature-based decks to sweepers and mass removal.
-Unlike Spirits or Merfolk, almost none of your creatures have flying or similar means of evasion, and your main win con is still beating your opponent down with creatures. This can lead to stalemates or even losses if your opponent has something like Ensnaring Bridge or an equal number of creatures. Furthermore, your taxes are creature-based, which means chump blocks can significantly hurt you if you use an Arbiter or Thalia to block your opponent's Death's Shadow or Awoken Horror.
-Your creatures also cannot get nearly as huge as Spirits or Merfolk as you possess no lords, which requires smarter decisions about combat.

Hope this helped inform you about the decks! Post in both threads if you need more advice or commentary, and have fun!

Quote from Shoebaccha »

Hey Team,
I'm new in MTG Salvation, newish to MTG again (I was into it during Invasion, took some time, bought a few packs of Shards, now I'm back) and as you can guess I'm getting into Modern by getting into Fish. I have a deck, but I'm wondering if anyone has any resources wrt current archetypes that I can read up on before bringing my deck to a FNM. (I watch Nikachu's awesome stuff when I can, and I'm only acquainted with how Tron and, like, 8-Whack Goblins works (and what cards they typically run).

Does anyone know where else I can primers for the big archetypes in modern right now so I can study up before walking into a FNM for the first time in 15 years with a Merfolk deck? Any info would be greatly appreciated!

-Shoebaccha

It depends on your LGS meta, but to give you an example, my LGS has multiple KCI, Burn, & Bridgevine players, Jeskai Midrange, Jeskai Control, Elves, another Merfolk player, RG Ponza, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, BW 8 Rack, and Humans. Besides Merfolk, I run Death & Taxes and UW Spirits.

Generally if you hunt around the Modern forums here on MTG Salvation, you should be able to find a current tier list. One of the key questions you need to answer for yourself is whether you want to run Mono-U Merfolk, or Tropical (GU) Merfolk. Mono-U is much more tempo-oriented and requires good match-up knowledge, skill, and patience; Tropical is a bit more aggro, but has a larger variety of sideboard options and helps the deck have a more even playing field with some of the worst matchups for Mono-U, namely Affinity, and in my experience, KCI. I would recommend the below list from rothgar as a starting point for a customized Mono-U list and go from there.

Hope this helps!

Quote from rothgar13 »

Hi all,

Just wanted to pop in and report that I've had some success with a list going really heavy on the land hate, as follows:

In Waves v. 42Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Artifacts (4) 4 Aether Vial Creatures (28) 4 Lord of Atlantis 4 Master of the Pearl Trident 4 Master of Waves 4 Merfolk Trickster 4 Merrow Reejerey 4 Phantasmal Image 4 Silvergill Adept	Enchantments (8) 4 Sea's Claim 4 Spreading Seas Lands (20) 16 Island 4 Mutavault	Sideboard (15) 4 Deprive 2 Echoing Truth 3 Relic of Progenitus 4 Tectonic Edge 2 Venser, Shaper Savant

Pretty simple stuff. Lots of land hate, lots of beef, and just enough interaction to make it all stick. If your meta is looking heavy on the BGx, Burn, and Tron, give this a spin.

Went 2 - 2 overall.

Red Prison 2 - 0
(Got super lucky in that my opponent had terrible draws, this deck is a nightmare to play against with Chalice and Blood Moon etc.)

Tron 2 - 0
(Game 1 had a nut hand, dealing 18 on turn 3 with Groundbreaker, Experiment One having regenerate meant O-Stone couldn't help him)

Tron 1 - 2
(A resolved Ugin is game over. Wormcoil is also very difficult to deal with)

UR Phoenix 1 - 2
(If we can neoform for Eidolon of Rhetoric it's an easy win, otherwise letting them flip Thing In The Ice is normally game over)

A pretty average result, although I got to play the absolute nut hand vs Tron:
Turn 1 -> Experiment One
Turn 2 -> Geist [4 dmg]
Turn 3 -> Pelt Collector, Neoform for Groundbreaker. [18 dmg] [Exp One 4/4, Geist 3/2, Pelt Collector 5/5]

Quote from jokerstyle00 »

What's your manabase looking like now? I'm having a difficult time trying to figure out the optimal split between man lands, Caverns, Void, and now Blast Zone.

This is what I want to try:

23 lands

4 Temples
2 Wastes
2 Caverns
5 Manlands
3 Ghost Quarter
4 Zhalfrin Void
2 Blast Zone
1 Scavenger Grounds

I think the 4th Void could be another copy of any of the utility lands. If the London mulligan rule happens I'll prob cut down to 2-3 Voids.

Quote from jokerstyle00 »

What do people think of Vivien's Arkbow for filtering in mid/late game? Might help convert some of the useless dorks into threats in a more creature heavy version.

I think you'll probably be better served by the bow user herself, Vivien Reid. Does the filtering you're looking for, can also serve up removal or defend herself in a pinch. Not a very interesting ultimate, though.

This is what I'll be testing next weekend



Something about my sideboard choices: my meta is filled with controls and midrange. I still like being set up against the mtgo goldfish metagame, so I'm not ignoring graveyard strategies just because there're a couple of dredge and phoenix players out of the whole group of players I see at LGSs, for example, but cards like Blossom are specifically to deal with shadow, GB and UW control which we have abundance of, while Fav Winds is necessary for bolt decks and the mirror matchup.
Things might change depending on the impact TTR will have against the field, but I can see how these colours should aim at playing a tempo game in G1 switching to a slower and grindier plan post side when people brings in creature hate so the tempo plan is likely to be less effective. In order to do so you want Planeswalkers and tokens to overwhelm the opponent with their value, while disrupting them with the abilities of the creatures that make up the core of our deck.

It's a great results day for BUG Wilderness Teachings!

Weekday Modern @ Hareruya (Japan) - 1st Place, Apr. 18, 2019, 56-People Tournament


Cookie Qualifier @ Mr. Nice Guy Games (Monroeville, PA) - 2nd Place, Apr. 20, 2019, 32-People Tournament


SCG Invitational Qualifier - Wallingford, CT - 2nd Place, Apr. 20, 2019, ???-People Tournament

The SCG Invitational Qualifier is notably more sorcery-speed than the other 2.

For those not in the know, Caligula is a 1st class Mountain Man - long time contributor to the thread, suggested at least a couple staple cards for our (75) [I think you championed Eidolon], and actually came up with the name Pyro Prison.

Not surprising, he now pioneers a card which could arguably be called his namesake: The Great Creator. The best way to respond is point-by-point. Sufficed to say, I have already traded for a Mycosynth Lattice and 3 Karns are pre-ordered. The deck proposed above is the real deal. I'm in. 100%

>>> Forward >>>

Here's the idea behind some of my choices:

9 Lock- moving a Chalice and a Bridge to the side feels like a great plan with Karn, allowing you to wish for a midgame Chalice on 2/3 to complete your lock, or in a pinch, just grabbing a Bridge and saving life by letting him die. I went a step further and dropped the 4th Bridge all together, and I haven't missed it. It feels like I'm running 5.
The new mechanic which drives this engine is Glittering Wish - Karn takes our (60) card deck and makes it a (75) card deck. This enables us to incorporate so many versions of our deck into a single construction. Pyro Prison has had a carousel of archetypes. One of which was the "Toolbox" deck. Silver bullet cards like Torpor Orb, Grafdigger's Cage, and Witchbane Orb were pushed into builds to enhance the concept of 'The Sideboard Deck'. But, never so gracefully.

Now, more than ever, Pyro Prison IS the Sideboard Deck. Outlier hose cards that can equal gg are a mere 4 colorless mana away. And, by splitting staple lock pieces between the sideboard and the maindeck, you've eliminated redundant draws. Impressive.

22 Land- With not only the addition of Karn, and the 6-drop combo piece he brings with him, but the addition of Blast Zone, adding another land hasn't hurt one bit, and has made everything nice and smooth. It also makes me more comfortable running a 7th 4-drop, which is Pia and Kiran, who is great with Karn.
22 land sounds perfectly fine, particularly with Blast Zone. 7 4-drops is taking our mana ramp to the limit. But, Karn searches load the hand up with cards that can be cast on following turns while we wait for land to be drawn.

8 Rabble, less Chandra- the idea is simple, clog the board with must-answer threats, or clear the way with removal long enough to find Karn. I haven't missed the 4th Chandra at all.
I've always advocated for the Chandra, Torch of Defiance count to be 3-and-a-half. 4 is too much and 3 is too little. The 8 rabble plan was just proven successful in Ghent with a Top 8 in a field of 400 competitors - enough said there. Question: In a deck loaded with 3 drops and (6) 4-cmc planeswalkers that immediately provide extra draw, do we want to dabble with more ritual effects? The drawback is dead draws of hot air, but the acceleration into establishing a locked board is tempting. IF the 'London Mulligan' becomes permanent, then the advantage is increased. The Londong Mulligan rule favors Combo decks, and let's face it, this deck is a Combo deck. A new breed: Combo-Prison deck.

Karn- In matchups where we take a control role, he takes over the game in just a few turns. It crushes troubling matchups like Hardened Scales and Tron, where I played Karn to shut off O. Stone game 2 and they played Thragtusk, which is usually trouble for us. In this case I was able to grab a Bridge and it won me a game I normally would've lost. There's no doubt in my mind, he's a staple. The question is, how many? 3 has felt good so far.
Finally! A way to defeat Hardened Scales. As for Tron, Karn provides a way to side out all of your bridges and go for the aggressive approach, buuuuuut still be able to [i]wish[/i] into a bridge stowed away in the sideboard if Wurmcoils start slamming the board. Very neat.

Blast Zone- jury is still out as a 2-of, but it's definitely a 1-of. Things I've killed with it: Search for Azcanta, Detention Sphere, double Death's Shadow, Auriok Champion, and a Teferi with 8 loyalty.. so it's not bad!
I am completely sold on Blast Zone. 100% Since I haven't played your deck yet, I can't comment on the count.

Here's a few things to think about as far as the sideboard;

Welding Jar vs Spellskite- while Skite is better in more matchups, you can wish for Jar and play it the same turn, which is big. I won a game vs Jund because of it. It also protects the Lattice combo.
The Jar is a better Wish target, but Spellskite is a better natural play. Skite comes in against a lot of decks, and provides blocking - needed when the Goblins get sided out against a swarm deck. I'm leaning towards Spellskite.

Batterskull- probably the weakest card. While it seems great, you really want it against control, and while I've wished for it a few times, it's lower impact than I hoped.. it might be better off being Hazoret or Stormbreath for the control matchup.

I've tried Batterskull, and your correct to identify it as the weakest card. With Karn, it's never really in your hand, but it is. So, go ahead and indulge with a pet card.

Relic/Crypt?- If you wish for an important 1-of and it gets destroyed, it could be useful to be able to exile your own graveyard.. in the case of Relic, it would give you infinite wish targets. I haven't tried It, but it could be useful.
Tormod's Crypt gets overwhelmed pretty readily. The Relic of Progenitus is a very novel idea (exile mechanic with Karn), and even poses an interesting conundrum: if you have 2 in your sideboard, how many do you bring in for games 2 and 3? Think of it. In your deck, the chances of drawing one is 1 out of 30, but if you leave one in your sideboard, then the odds of drawing one after you've cast one of your (3) Karns is something like 1 out of 12 || math not accounting for the 7 drawn cards to start the game.

SUMMARY
Well, if you can't tell, I'm excited. I've carefully reviewed your proposed build Caligula, and I think it's exceptional. And, yet I think it is also elementary. All the trademark stamps of Pyro Prison are on full display. It must have felt like a very natural process - the designing. The 'Core 50', as Fluffy and Russ like to call it, underpins the deck - although Karn shifts the counts of cards a bit between the MD and SB. And, the sideboard showcases our all-star silver bullets. Nevertheless, to your credit, the removal complement main deck (3 Abrade/2 Slag) and selection of sideboard tools are impressive. I don't think I'll change very much when I sit down, and take my turn to become 'The Great Creator'.

My one [i]wish[/i]? To have been there at the beginning. I know you've been exclaiming how overjoyed you've been with developing your new deck. If only I could have been there. To follow the path of decisions and contribute ideas. Sure, playing is fun, but the best part of Magic is creating. Well, let the tinkering begin!

Hello Mountainfolk! As we know, War of the Spark drops next week, and we're all curious about Karn, the Great Creator, as well as Blast Zone. I've spent the last week or so testing them, getting in 31 matches against competitive decks, and I have a nice starting point for the discussion. Here's what I've been running;



Here's the idea behind some of my choices:

9 Lock- moving a Chalice and a Bridge to the side feels like a great plan with Karn, allowing you to wish for a midgame Chalice on 2/3 to complete your lock, or in a pinch, just grabbing a Bridge and saving life by letting him die. I went a step further and dropped the 4th Bridge all together, and I haven't missed it. It feels like I'm running 5.

22 Land- With not only the addition of Karn, and the 6-drop combo piece he brings with him, but the addition of Blast Zone, adding another land hasn't hurt one bit, and has made everything nice and smooth. It also makes me more comfortable running a 7th 4-drop, which is Pia and Kiran, who is great with Karn.

8 Rabble, less Chandra- the idea is simple, clog the board with must-answer threats, or clear the way with removal long enough to find Karn. I haven't missed the 4th Chandra at all.

Karn- In matchups where we take a control role, he takes over the game in just a few turns. It crushes troubling matchups like Hardened Scales and Tron, where I played Karn to shut off O. Stone game 2 and they played Thragtusk, which is usually trouble for us. In this case I was able to grab a Bridge and it won me a game I normally would've lost. There's no doubt in my mind, he's a staple. The question is, how many? 3 has felt good so far.

Blast Zone- jury is still out as a 2-of, but it's definitely a 1-of. Things I've killed with it: Search for Azcanta, Detention Sphere, double Death's Shadow, Auriok Champion, and a Teferi with 8 loyalty.. so it's not bad!

Here's a few things to think about as far as the sideboard;

Welding Jar vs Spellskite- while Skite is better in more matchups, you can wish for Jar and play it the same turn, which is big. I won a game vs Jund because of it. It also protects the Lattice combo.

Batterskull- probably the weakest card. While it seems great, you really want it against control, and while I've wished for it a few times, it's lower impact than I hoped.. it might be better off being Hazoret or Stormbreath for the control matchup.

Relic/Crypt?- If you wish for an important 1-of and it gets destroyed, it could be useful to be able to exile your own graveyard.. in the case of Relic, it would give you infinite wish targets. I haven't tried It, but it could be useful.

I'm excited to see what you guys think and come up with in the next couple weeks, as well as my long awaited debut on MTGO with our new toys at my disposal!

RAKDOS PYRO PRISON
Scored a 5-0 in an MTGO Competitive league on the 18th. Strangely, it wasn’t published in the Wizards MODO report on the 19th. Should be in the next one.

I’ve since tinkered a few modifications, but I’ll tell you one bully-titted fella that’s here to stay:
Phyrexian Obliterator

He’s marvelously positioned right now as a 5th Bridge, monster uppercut attack for 5, he’s impervious to a flipped TiTi, and squares up against wurmcoil and primetime.

He’s easier to cast than you might think, and there are times in game 2/3, that you pull out your blood moons.

Does he get stranded in your hand. Sure. Sometimes. But, you’ll see I’m running 7 discard effects:
Collective brutality
Liliana of the Veil
Haziest.

I’ll post an updated list sooooon.

Relic's synergy with Eternal Scourge is too good to pass up, imo. I'd only run Leylines in a meta with a lot of Dredge. Plus getting stuck with Leylines in hand feels real bad.