Guttural Response worked very well on my tests (maybe just because no one was expecting it... I don't know...)
maybe it would worth if we had only the assaults as before - but now with vortex it may be replaced
I'm trying to organize some useful information about sideboard options
So far I only gathered items for my list (R/G creatureless) but I believe it also may contain descent options for others too
I'll list the cards and the respective match ups where it would be more effective, maybe it could help others to decide for main board options according to their local metagame
Pithing needle: twin (to work properly we need to name the creatures (Deceiver Exarch or Pestermite ) and not the enchantment ) , affinity (Cranial Plating) , Tron (stops Karn Liberated), Jund/Abzan (stops liliana of the veil however I believe she is far from be so dangerous to a creatureless deck with loam as she is for other decks ) , Grishoalbrand (Griselbrand) and Tokens (stops Sorin and Elspeth)
witchbane orb :I still need to test it but it's the only good option I found against scapeshift and burn for a deck without white (no access to leyline of sanctity after opening hand), honestly I don't think a worth option use leyline and try to muligan until get it in a opening hand. It also may help against tron (stops +4 of Karn) , abzan and wb tokens (inquisition of kozilek , thoughtseize or duress ) - just like liliana the discard spells don't have a impact so relevant in my list but they may slow down the game
If someone has better options than the list above considering the current meta please share your thoughts
Also there's a giant chance that I missed some details regarding effects or abilities for cards above - if you found something just point it out
You're correct, in fact I was not seeing the whole picture of magmatic insight + life from the loam
If you consider the card only by itself it's not so good IMO, but the interaction with loam is really something for this deck
The noxious revival got into my list before the spoilers of Origins and I really didn't thought about it after magmatic insight and molten vortex join the list. I used it to bring back pyroclasm some times against affinity and B/W tokens with nice results so it end up staying in the list...
I also used it on my opponents some times in order to delay their hands, and avoiding some top draws...
I'm new at the forum and I've been following this thread on last 2 weeks, trying to organize a creature-less R/G list
I know black offers a lot of great options for a creature-less list but I want to take an easier and budget way considering the lands
I believe the 2 new cards ( magmatic insight and molten vortex ) mentioned on last days from Origins should help me with this
I still thinking about magmatic insight - I don't think that discard a land is so good for this deck most part of the times
(once as it resolves seismic assault or molten vortex would not be triggered by it )
Thinking about Tormenting Voice/Wild guess - we still at sorcery speed with all of them and in some of my testings at early game I missed my discarded lands, so....
I would like some constructive opinions about my list
I know my SB is not consistent for all meta-game but I'm kind of traumatized by my last matches against delver/twin
Also, I'm brazilian so, sorry about any mistakes on my english
Seems a solid choice for late game
what you guys think ? too expansive ?
with 5 lands on board we could resolve life from the loam and cast Lightning Storm for 9 damage
Guttural Response worked very well on my tests (maybe just because no one was expecting it... I don't know...)
maybe it would worth if we had only the assaults as before - but now with vortex it may be replaced
So far I only gathered items for my list (R/G creatureless) but I believe it also may contain descent options for others too
I'll list the cards and the respective match ups where it would be more effective, maybe it could help others to decide for main board options according to their local metagame
Ancient Grudge: IMO a must have item in all SB - great against affinity, tron and may be good vs merfolk (AEther Vial) and amulet bloom (Amulet of Vigor)
Rending Volley: good vs Twin and Merfolk (a good replace for combust)
Pithing needle: twin (to work properly we need to name the creatures (Deceiver Exarch or Pestermite ) and not the enchantment ) , affinity (Cranial Plating) , Tron (stops Karn Liberated), Jund/Abzan (stops liliana of the veil however I believe she is far from be so dangerous to a creatureless deck with loam as she is for other decks ) , Grishoalbrand (Griselbrand) and Tokens (stops Sorin and Elspeth)
Unravel the AEther: good vs affinity , tron (wormcoil engine , merfolk (Aether Vial) , bogles and tokens ( Intangible Virtue and Bitterblossom) , a maybe option against twin and amulet bloom
Guttural Response: unexpected for everyone using blue (at least in my tests) , great against twin , grixis and merfolk
Display Of Dominance: A recent option not tested enough but an it's option vs twin , grixis , jund , livingend and abzan
Dragon's Claw: One of the few options against burn and maybe jund
tormod's crypt: not sure if there's a better choice but it's an option vs jund , abzan (goyf) grixis (snapcaster mage , Gurmag Angler and Tasigur, the golden fang) griselbrand and dredvine
witchbane orb :I still need to test it but it's the only good option I found against scapeshift and burn for a deck without white (no access to leyline of sanctity after opening hand), honestly I don't think a worth option use leyline and try to muligan until get it in a opening hand. It also may help against tron (stops +4 of Karn) , abzan and wb tokens (inquisition of kozilek , thoughtseize or duress ) - just like liliana the discard spells don't have a impact so relevant in my list but they may slow down the game
Surgical Extraction : it hurts a lot of decks - twin, grixis, jund, tron
If someone has better options than the list above considering the current meta please share your thoughts
Also there's a giant chance that I missed some details regarding effects or abilities for cards above - if you found something just point it out
Thanks!
You're correct, in fact I was not seeing the whole picture of magmatic insight + life from the loam
If you consider the card only by itself it's not so good IMO, but the interaction with loam is really something for this deck
The noxious revival got into my list before the spoilers of Origins and I really didn't thought about it after magmatic insight and molten vortex join the list. I used it to bring back pyroclasm some times against affinity and B/W tokens with nice results so it end up staying in the list...
I also used it on my opponents some times in order to delay their hands, and avoiding some top draws...
I'll run more tests to decide if it really stays
I'm also thinking about Display Of Dominance and Surgical Extraction for SB but I'm not sure what to cut out
Thanks for the comments!
I'm new at the forum and I've been following this thread on last 2 weeks, trying to organize a creature-less R/G list
I know black offers a lot of great options for a creature-less list but I want to take an easier and budget way considering the lands
I believe the 2 new cards ( magmatic insight and molten vortex ) mentioned on last days from Origins should help me with this
The list I built so far is the following:
3 seismic assault
4 life from the loam
3 faithless looting
3 Commune with the Gods
3 molten vortex
4 lightning bolt
3 Noxious Revival
4 magmatic insight
2 flame jab
2 Mulch
4 pyroclasm
lands
4 wooded foothills
1 raging ravine
8 mountain
3 ghost quarter
5 forest
4 Rootbound Crag
side
4 Ancient Grudge
4 combust
1 pithing needle
2 unravel the Aether
4 Guttural Response
I still thinking about magmatic insight - I don't think that discard a land is so good for this deck most part of the times
(once as it resolves seismic assault or molten vortex would not be triggered by it )
Thinking about Tormenting Voice/Wild guess - we still at sorcery speed with all of them and in some of my testings at early game I missed my discarded lands, so....
I would like some constructive opinions about my list
I know my SB is not consistent for all meta-game but I'm kind of traumatized by my last matches against delver/twin
Also, I'm brazilian so, sorry about any mistakes on my english