MTG Salvation

Quote from Lenus Altair

Well, I just compiled a list based on what I've heard and my own opinions on cards that are likely to have some impact.

Cards that will be played in a Competitive format:

Brimaz, King of Oreskos
Revoke Existence
Spirit of the Labyrinth
Thassa’s Rebuff
Bile Blight
Drown in Sorrow
Gild
Flame-Wreathe Phoenix
Oracle of Bones
Searing Blood
Courser of Kruphix
Unreavel the Aether
Fanatic of Xenagos
Kiora’s Follower
Xenagos, God of Revels
Temple of Enlightment
Temple of Malice
Temple of Plenty

Cards that are worth testing/fringe:

Eidolon of Countless Battles
Glimpse the Sun God
Hero of Iroas
Loyal Pegasus
Fated Infatuation
Vortex Elemental
Fated Return
Herald of Torment
Pain Seer
Sanguimancy
Akroan Conscriptor
Fated Conflagration
Hero of Leina Tower
Peregrination
Emphara, God of the Polis
Kiora, the Crashing Wave
Mogis, God of Slaughter
Phenax, God of Deception

That's 18 cards in each category for a total of 36. Assuming you agree with this list and are looking at this set from a competitive standpoint, is 36/165 bad? What might you change from this list? How much better/worse does that make it?

Just posted that in the "worst set evar" thread.

Honestly, I think BNG has some decent cards. I'm still in the camp of being annoyed at the lack of traditional enchantment support and it type use being primarily flavor support as opposed to mechanical, but that's not new with Theros Block.

I think all the gods minus GW have a solid place somewhere and there are probably some rogue cards for standard and perhaps modern that arn't glaringly obviously, like Hero of Leina Tower. Seems like she's being ignored overall.

There are a few cards that I'd like to have, but it isn't a box worth set for me.

Well, I just compiled a list based on what I've heard and my own opinions on cards that are likely to have some impact.

Cards that will be played in a Competitive format:

Brimaz, King of Oreskos
Revoke Existence
Spirit of the Labyrinth
Thassa’s Rebuff
Bile Blight
Drown in Sorrow
Gild
Flame-Wreathe Phoenix
Oracle of Bones
Searing Blood
Courser of Kruphix
Unreavel the Aether
Fanatic of Xenagos
Kiora’s Follower
Xenagos, God of Revels
Temple of Enlightment
Temple of Malice
Temple of Plenty

Cards that are worth testing/fringe:

Eidolon of Countless Battles
Glimpse the Sun God
Hero of Iroas
Loyal Pegasus
Fated Infatuation
Vortex Elemental
Fated Return
Herald of Torment
Pain Seer
Sanguimancy
Akroan Conscriptor
Fated Conflagration
Hero of Leina Tower
Peregrination
Emphara, God of the Polis
Kiora, the Crashing Wave
Mogis, God of Slaughter
Phenax, God of Deception

That's 18 cards in each category for a total of 36. Assuming you agree with this list and are looking at this set from a competitive standpoint, is 36/165 bad? What might you change from this list? How much better/worse does that make it?

I guess Ephara has a pet kitty. She must be pouring some enchanted milk out of that vase. Make kitty strong.

Quote from mondu_the_fat

Amass as a keyword sounds fairly annoying due to the amount of counters going around. The sample is mythic, which won't be as much of a problem, but imagine this ability at common or uncommon.

My initial ideas outside the mythic don't have amass values greater then 2. Do you still think that makes it a concern? I would see saporling sprouting fungus cards as using more, though perhaps you feel that was a poor mechanic for a similiar reason.

As some of you may have noticed, I've been brainstorming a new set idea including a mechanic called survivor. However, the more I looked at what has been floating around the forum lately, the more I realized that it was a mechanic that had been done already. Several times. So I brainstormed the poster children of two new mechanical directions that still focused on and rewarding creatures. What do you think? How do you see the mechanics evolving as I flesh out prototypes? Concerns?

Tzawo, Lord of Dora Gate 2RWU
Legendary Creature - Spirit Warrior (M)
Flying, First Strike, Rally (If this creature attacks or blocks, the next creature spell you cast this turn cost 1 less.)
During your turn after your opponent declares blockers, you may cast a creature spell. If you do, it is tapped and attacking.
5/4

The Will of Ruination 2BBGG
Legendary Creature - Zombie Juggernaut (M)
Amass 3 (At the beginning of your upkeep if you control another creature that shares a type with The Will of Ruination put three +1/+1 counters on it.)
G, Remove a +1/+1 counter from The Will of Ruination: Put three +1/+1 counters on another target creature you control.
B, Remove 20 +1/+1 counters from creatures you control: Destroy each other creature.
3/3

Foreshadow looks like it would have issues with random discard. People might cheat if they have two of the same foreshadow card in their hand, or otherwise not recall which of the two cards was the already foreshadowed one.

Quote from Antny223

I actually like the idea of survivor only working around attacking, it's less flavourful admittedly but it does look a little less likely to disuade opponents from attacks (and it puts a few less decisions on opponents) which I sense is better for play.

I see it as an incentive to block versus and disincentive for an opponent to attack. I wanted the mechanice to encourage you to use your creatures as...creatures. Attacking and blocking. And does it really add a lot of extra decisions to the opponent? Basically, it'll just make them more wary of combat tricks and have to consider double blocking more in the few times it be relevant. Or or there other things?

This seems better if it just had straight flying. Shifting abilities like this is not a big issue but it takes a common to uncommon unneccessarily. I had a similar issue with a mechanic in my set recently. A 1/2 flyer survivor for 2 or possibly 3 seems fair.

You might be right.

Using hellbent as a surrogate overload is OK but the flavour is not really in play here. That said I do like the card a lot.

My interpretation of White hellbent is Desperate Resolve/Dues Ex Machina(which the spell name references vaguely) as apposed to all out recklessness. Im not sold on white hellbent though. More experimenting!

Now this I don't like. Hellbent on one side and a card in the same colour asking me to do the opposite. The idea white hellbent wasn't really hitting home but this really emphasizes the point. I would pick one direction for white (cards in hand or no cards in hand) and stick with it.

You bring up a valid point. But in a large base set, is each color only allowed one focus? All colors may have cards the like a big hand and all colors my have cards the reward small/no hands. I haven't decided yet, but handsize is a theme.

I'd argue in favour of 3U over 1UU for the cost but otherwise a fine forecast rare.

Second opinion on cost?

Seems too easy in my mind. I would want players to have to work for their survival. Maybe deathtouch or lifelink would be a more interesting bedfellow here.

You might be right on it being too easy. Dunno. Deathtouch might be nice, but I'd change the name.

Now this feels like hellbent. In fact if hellbent was in blue I would actually like this card there (sans the haste). As it stands it's fine but not really exciting enough for it high rarity.

If it's blue and sans haste I would make it an uncommon. This red version with haste seems to push power levels in a set sure to have enablers. But making it blue goes back to wether all colors will cater to small/no handsizes as well.

Feels pretty bad but it could work with other cards I guess.

Put it on a decent body hexproof an suddenly combat becomes one sided. Its a very powerful effect in my opinion. Thats part of the reason I made it an aura so every color could deal with it (since every color can affect creatures) and why cost wise its a bit expensive for an otherwise no boost aura.

A midpoint between fling and pit fight. Scratch that it's blood with the ability to hit players (which was perhaps it's most red feature. I like it better in green. And in green I like prey upon even more.

I don't see this as green. Also, what card are referring too?

Sure could even get away with this being 4/4 I reckon.

Perhaps, but I don't try to push big bodied commons. Not at the four slot anyway.

Greatest power instead of most power. A bomb, nothing more, nothing less. All good.

Still not sure if I like it. It's a fairly obvious use of effects. Debating...

More prototype ideas from the Survivor set! Not sold on all of these...

Keep in mind the themes:

Hand size matters
Returning Mechanics: Forcast/Hellbent
Creature size matters
Combat results matter

(also first batch of cards can be found here)

Martial Acolyte W
Creature - Human Soldier (U)
~ has double strike if it has a +1/+1 counter on it.
Survivor - At the end of Combat, if ~ attacked or blocked this turn, put a +1/+1 counter on it.
1/1

Arid Drake 1U
Creature - Drake
CARDNAME has flying if it has a +1/+1 counter on it.
Survivor - At the end of Combat, if CARDNAME attacked or blocked this turn, put a +1/+1 counter on it.
1/2

Divine Intervention 2WW
Instant (R)
Exile target attacking or blocking creature
Hellbent - As long as you have no cards in hand, exile each attacking or blocking creature instead.
"No matter how impossible, I will never lose" Faradel

Lucid Guardian 2WW
Creature - Lammasu (C)
When ~ enters the battlefield, if you have 4 or more cards in your hand, you gain 4 life.
2/4

Saboteur Doppelganger 1UU
Sorcery (R)
Forecast - 1U: Target creature can only be blocked by creatures with defender until end of turn.
Put a token onto the battlefield that’s a copy of target creature you control that dealt combat damage to a player this turn.

Persistant Evil 1B
Enchantment - Aura (U)
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature has Survivor and B, Regenerate it.

Infernal Reckoner 2R
Creature - Devil (R)
Haste
Hellbent - As long as you have no cards in hand, when ~ enters the battlefield you may return a sorcery or instant card from your graveyard to your hand.
3/2

Overwhelming Icon 2WW
Enchantment - Aura (R)
Enchant Creature
Creatures with less power then enchanted creature can’t attack you.

Internal Purge 1R
Sorcery (C)
~ deals X damage to target creature, where X is that creature's power.

Titan Boar 2GG
Creature - Beast (C)
When ~ attacks, if you control more creatures then an opponent, it gains trample until end of turn.
4/3

Golduren, Herald of Might 4GGG
Legendary Creature - Basilisk
Trample, Deathtouch
So long as Golduren, Herald of Might has the most power on the battlefield, all creatures defending player controls must block Golduren if able.
7/7

I realize you're probably not making these with standard in mind but that Hellbound Imp is way over standard's power as is Halo imp. And covetous imp wouldn't be out at that power level either.

However, I do like the idea of Imp tribal, and the play on imps "growing up" to be demons in a sense is a cool concept to toy with. The "lord" is a nice standout.

Quote from Felllix

I give comments, yes?

Please do!

Nice uncommon. High draft pick, maybe constructed playable. I'd wonder if you should drop vigilance in favor of lowering the cost to WW? Might be pushing too hard there.

In my preliminary designs, white seems to be getting a fair amount of 2 drops. I like it at 3, because as you say, dropping it to two and cutting vigilance is a push. That and the flavor I thought of (him loosing his horse and therefor vigilance) fits that better.

I think I like Survivor. It's flavorful and makes you want to attack and block with your creatures, something that you want to do anyway. Good design here.

That's exactly what I was going for. I wanted to make combat matter, and encourage creatures to be... creatures. Like landfall rewards playing lands.

I like this guy too, though I have a feeling he should probably be uncommon or cost at least 2BB; he seems like he'll get out of hand pretty quickly and stall just about any board he's on.

I do want to keep this at common, so I could see bumping it up to 4 mana or knocking it's toughness down a point.

This... um, this isn't hellbent. Are you re-concepting it or something? Hellbent is turned on when you have no cards in your hand. Is it a misprint?

If you change it to the proper Hellbent condition, this seems fine, could probably be common.

Misprint! I know what hellbent is I swear. Fixed properly this time (I thought I edited it already.) With the change made you might not see it as a common anymore...

I'll never tire of saying this; blue does not get creatures this efficient. It is the worst color at creatures. Wizards broke this rule with Delver, and it's a big mistake. I think if you doubled this guy's cost and just made the draw unconditional, you'd have a fine common here.

You're probably right. I should reconsider where I want to take this one, especially at common.

This needs "You may choose new targets for the copy" or else the same two creatures will fight over and over until one of them dies, since targets are a copiable characteristic of spells. I also think this should be at least an uncommon, since it's usually going to be a two-for-one, and New World Order says those go in at least uncommon. Other than that, I like it, especially the card title.

Fixed, and you're probably right about rarity.

It seems very likely that this will be a spell that costs 5 mana and only draws a card. I think you can do better than that, at least drawing 2 cards, or something. On the other hand, if you can manage to chain this a few times, it could be even more powerful. I suggest drawing something like 2 cards every time, then the ability to reveal said card to draw another card or two.

Did you consider that all lands, sorceries, instant, artifacts, and enchantments have less power that almost any creature? Actually when I put it that way, you could easily build a deck that doesn't have many if any creatures at all, but produces them, casts this, and draws out some combo...not sure if I like that/it's reasonable.

Good use of Forecast here, and I think it works just fine as a common. Nice.

Thanks. I've always liked forecast and wanted to expand on it in a way where the abilities synergize better. But I'll have to think more about how to push it's design space. It should be important though for the archetypes that want to maintain hand size.

Well, that feels very mythic. I like that he protects the other creatures, but is somewhat fragile himself (dies to most removal); everything about that is very, very white. Good job here.

I try to make my Mythics feel mythic. Thanks for the kudos.

Quote from Master Moja

I think Hellbent is wrong on a few of your cards. Hellbent is supposed to be an ability that activates when you have no cards in your hand. Other than that, I like that you brought back Forecast. It's always been a design I wanted to remake or redo in all five colors.

I know what hellbent does, but I did forget the "when you have no cards in hand" clause. I guess Rash of Reason seems like a misunderstanding because I reference the number of cards in the opponents hand, but that's the beauty of it: You're rewarded not only for you recklessness, but your opponents conservative nature.

Quote from void_nothing

I'd drop Faradel to a 3/3 for 3WW. As a 4/4 she'll already protect the entirety of most armies with her static ability. Very cool idea, though.

I'll consider it, thanks

So I started a new set idea, building bottom up (mechanics first) and here were some of the first ideas that came to mind based on the following core ideas:

*Hand size matters
*Returning Mechanics: Forcast/Hellbent
*Creature size matters
*Combat results matter

Steadfast Knight 1WW
Creature - Human Knight (U)
First strike, Vigilance
When Steadfast Knight dies during combat, put a 1/1 white soldier creature with first strike on the battlefield.
2/2

Soldier of Destiny 1W
Creature - Human Soldier (U)
Soldier of Destiny has Protection from creatures with a power 3 or greater so long it’s power is less then 3.
Survivor - At the end of Combat, if Soldier of Destiny attacked or blocked this turn, put a +1/+1 counter on it.
1/2

Gold Eye Widower 1BB
Creature - Gorgon (C)
Deathtouch
Survivor - At the end of combat, if Gold Eye Widower attacked or blocked this turn, put a +1/+1 counter on it.
1/3

Rash over Reason 1RR
Instant (U)
Creatures you control get +1/+0 and first strike until end of turn.
Hellbent - As long as you have no cards in hand, creatures you control get an additional +1/+0 until end of turn for each card in target opponents hand.

Wilds Researcher 1U
Creature - Human Rogue (C)
When Wilds Researcher enters the battlefield, if a player controls a creature with 4 or more power you may draw a card.
2/2

Fighting the Odds2G
Sorcery (C)
Target creature you control fights target creature an opponent controls. Then, if that opponent controls more creatures then you do, you may copy Fighting the Odds. You may choose new targets for the copy.

Power is Knowledge 3GU
Sorcery (U)
Draw a card. Then if you control a creature, you may reveal it. If the revealed card has less power then a creature you control, copy Power is Knowledge.

Vital Blossoms GW
Sorcery (C)
Forecast, W: You gain 1 life
Put X +1/+1 counters on target creature, where X is amount of life you’ve gained this turn.

Faradel, Herald of Right 3WWW
Legendary Creature - Angel (M)
Flying, Vigilance
Creatures you control with less power then Faradel, Herald of Rightouesness have protection from creatures.
Survivor - At the end of Combat, if Faradel, Herald of Rightouesness attacked or blocked this turn, put a +1/+1 counter on it.
4/4

Inner Silence: Likewise not a fan. Probably should cost 6.

Mindfulness: Fine. Not really that strong. Just look at ponder and it's ilk.

Nothingness: Nice one, good kill variant.

Spontaneity: By itself, half the time it does nothing, a quarter of the time it does 2, and only a quarter does it go higher. A 25% chance to get your mana's worth (or better) isn't worth 3, but balancing doubling the X value and the card filtering is a challenge. Perhaps cost it 2 and don't double X?

Evocation: A future investment idea is nice. Not sure about balancing it, but this seems reasonable given mana bloom.
__________________

This guy feels oppressive at the 3 mana. The +1 is really solid removal, the minus 3 is a four mana effect (sleep), and you can pop the ult turn 5 making it really easy to bleed/lock your aggro/mid range opponent out of the game. I really see this as a four mana card.

Zetra, Fateclaimer 2UB
Planeswalker - Zetra
[+1]: Up to one target creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn.
[-4]: Tap all creatures target player controls. Those creatures don't untap Those creatures don't untap during that player's next untap step.
[-6]: Target opponent gets an emblem with "At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice each creature unless you pay 2 life for each creature you control."
{4}

Besides the power level and non whiteness of Stanis, my main issue with these cards are they don't really feel like cohesive designs or characters. Both are walkers that do an assortment of things in their colors that don't seemingly synergize or express an overall style and strategy. They feel kind of slapped together. Walkers usually have an overall theme beyond doing whatever possible in their colors, and these cards are missing that.

Just something to consider.