Cut green, the fourth color is out of date. The redcap kill is also outdated, labman/azami/angel of glory's rise does not get beaten by removal at the end point nor does it need to target.
Play 4 vial and a cavern.
You need a plan b in the main, I've been having success with stoneforge/ mother of runes/ SOFAI.
You also need a plan for sideboard games that dodges hate.
That one from the source is also an option if you want discard over countermagic for some reason.
Good luck, no one will take you seriously or even want to help improve the deck right now. You need to have a string of good finishes if you want to even get help, so the deck will remain untuned until then.
Yeah it depends on your meta. If Phillip Braverman shows up at your Fnm, you're going to have a bad day.
As i keep telling people this is bad advice for my city, as i have multiple people who have top 8's in legacy gps to dodge
every friday if i decide to show up with stuff like merfolk, or high tide.
Also if everyone else is on the decks you mentioned, shocks also get way worse.
taking an extra 2-4 against burn is lethal.
taking an extra 2 in reanimator against anything with bolt gets you killed when you use reanimate.
and yeah, this makes any racing situation bad for you.
3 goblin guides = 1 mp tundra
4 badlands cost less than 2 grim monilith
4 savannah cost less than 3 city of traitors
no duals in mud, deck is super expensive, probbably build infect for the same price.
What do you guys think of mystic retrieval + endless obedience to do a dread return impression as a pair of one ofs or something? a package like
1 mystic retrieval
1 endless obedience
1 grislebrand/ iona / elesh norn/flamekin zealot/ avacyn angel of hope /flayer of the hatebound/ Whatevers clever Trevor
or something like that. the setup isn't insane or anything. Slots might be too tight at this point though.
Edit: Dont take this one seriously, but you can also retrieve empty the pits. busted delve!
Edit Edit : This ones even worse, temporal trespass! Get em!
Mods, if this is in the wrong forum, please move it.
With the growing wage gap in america, and the complete failure of the trickle down "experiment", I think I might have realized something.
Even assuming completely sociopathic business CEOS, the plan to redistribute wealth so that the average citizen gets poorer over time is directly counterproductive to the goal of making more money.
If you raise taxes on the rich, by a little bit at a time,as a percentage, can't you later, y'know, bilk the peasents for more money? Am i horribly misinformed or is this how developing countries.. develop?
Maybe my math is wrong? Lets see here... (napkin math incoming)
R = rich money = 1000
Rn number of rich guys = 10
P = poor money = 1000
Pn = number of poor guys = 1000
r / number of rich guys - 1% = 99
That doesn't sound too bad.
Call the number subtracted Rt(rich tax)
P / number of poor guys = 1
1 + Pn/(Pn/Rt) = 1.01
Call that NPM (new poor money)
Hmm that doesn't seem like much. My math is good so far though i think. Now then,
Assume 1% growth (its asking a lot but sometimes it happens)
NRM + 1% = 999.9
NPM + 1% = 1020.1
NPM - .5% = 1014.9995
Call that Pt (poor tax)
NRM + pt = 1005,0005
Did everyone get richer? Maybe poor tax happens first?
Yeah everyone just got richer. Trickle-up economics works.
The only way the current situation makes sense is if something like this conversation happened:
CEO: "Mr President, Please cut taxes on the rich."
President: "My finance guy just did the math, you know you're screwing yourselves too right? Long term,
everyone makes less money.
CEO: "Yeah i know, but I retire in two years, I'll be dead in twelve, you owe me for the campaign donations,
and my shareholders want gains this quarter."
President: "Fine, I'll do it, but you're gonna need to help me make the public stupid again."
CEO: "Advertising campaign?"
President: "Media too. They have to forget 9th grade math, ignore expert opinions that run counter to the narritve,
AND ignore other countries in similar economic situations."
CEO: "I can do the first two but the third ones tough. maybe start a war? I find xenophobia helps me forget
facts I don't like."
phantasmagorian is a sweet card that may do what you want. in multiples, it means that once you have a dredger, you can use that dredger every turn. In addition, the card provides a repeatable discard outlet as long as it's in the graveyard.
I didn't tell him that it not fun to teach him, because it still is fun to teach him. I said to you guys that it's getting to that point.
I am asking if he's having trouble understanding, but unfortunately he's the kind of person who says he gets something and then is totally surprised by how something actually works. I need to figure out what to do if I'm going to continue teaching him how to play.
I'm trying to teach a friend to play, but the problem is he's slow. like insanely slow. I just finished a game with him that lasted eight turns and took an HOUR AND TWELVE MINUTES. He's played duels of the planeswalkers.
I saw him do it, and it didn't take him that long to finish a game. Now, I am aware - Painfully aware - of how deficient DOTP is as a teaching tool, but I only showed it to him after a few paper games to solidify his understanding. I don't know what to do, he really wants to learn, but it's getting to the point where it's no longer fun to teach him. I even tried taking him to a draft, hoping that a tournament setting would get him to speed up his play.
His match took 2 hours 30 minutes, and then someone FINALLY called the judge over. This is no exaggeration, we were having a draft till you drop and no one in the draft queue got to play in another draft. Yes it was miserable. In the judges defense, the store was extremely busy and we should have informed him earlier.
WOAH various people putting words in my mouth. I didn't advocate for any cards that countered spells.
The problem is that the threats that people play in legacy and the threats that people play in modern are, with a few exceptions, exactly the same. delver has mostly modern legal creatures, almost all the creatures in d&t are modern legal,hell look at the MtgGoldfish top 20 most played creatures in legacy. 16 of them are modern legal. Eldrazi is warping both formats at the moment, but removing those guys still leaves my point standing.
You have legacy threats and crummy answers. Again, I'm not advocating for anything crazy.
none of the cards I mentioned are quite good enough to see mainstream play in legacy, and most of them don't make the cut in that format. You'll also notice none of these cards are unconditional at all. They are more efficient, not even anywhere close to "strictly better" variations on what modern already does.
I specifically said pitch spells that are NOT force. Those exist. I just woke up this morning and reread my post. I can't believe I suggested cataclysm as a reprint!
Everything else still stands though. I'm not advocating for force or wasteland here. I want modern to have access to the kind of answers to the kinds of problems presented by the power creep of creatures. free countermagic is obviously not okay, but if decks in this format are going to be able to present legacy level threats - and make no mistake, with the exception of combo, most of the threats between formats are the same - you're going to need answers sufficient to the task.
No commander 20xx spells, no free countermagic, none of this we need twin back nonsense. Just the realization that spending two mana to kill most things in this format either feels awful or doesn't work.
I know it's a different format, but i just wanted to say that a lot of storm and delver players in legacy are complaining that their brainstorms are a lot worse now. The 4 eldrazi players I've played all say
they usually wish their ancient tombs and city of traitors were eldrazi temples.
You guys don't need bannings. you guys need efficient answers to common problems caused by modern creature design, and your'e not going to get that from wizards as long as unconditional creature removal is costed the same
as unconditional countermagic (see murder and cancel). Mark my words, if your format has trouble with hasted juzam djiin, you don't need to ban the lands, you need reasonable answers.
It blows my mind that your format doesn't have pernicious deed or innocent blood or any of the pitch spells that aren't force of will or ruination- hey you know what? no more blood moon, no more choke, no more stony silence.
energy flux, ruination, cataclysm. Stop complaining, it could be worse. Snapcaster ruin you.
Seal of fire serves the important function of being a removal spell way before anything comes online. Grass on turn one is atrocious unless you're desperate, but seal is the same while not a bad turn one play. Just play some games against delver or something as a two of. if your opponent has to force it, you know the cards insane. Remember this costs one. You used to pay three for this. there's a huge advantage to be had in tempo with a proactive piece of removal.
I think the theory of the eldrazi matchup for this deck is that your deck matches up fairly well against theirs. they have big guys, you have confinement. they have spheres, you have growth effects. they have removal,
your guys have hexproof. The only wild cards are who's on the play and do they have chalice, but otherwise you having that kind of advantage is the definition of a good matchup.
O wow I just realized how good sphere of safety is in this matchup hahahahahaha
Foothills for verdant, cut basic forest for taiga, especially with a base with six fetches.
I'll just reiterate that seal of fire is bonkers and handles so many things that are otherwise problems, like
deathrite and delver and other stuff that gets under your locks and then creates an advantage that can't be
efficiently handled by grass. This card is enchantess's lightning bolt.
(stoneforge and small jace and bob and VClique and mentor and thalia and teeg and cannonist and wingmare and pyro and metalworker and on and on and on...)
Yeah one of the reasons I don't even want to try this on modo is clock reasons. All the triggers of elves, all the game
length of miracles.
It should be emphasised that when playing this deck, management of your clock is extremely important. Espescially
against miracles. I firmly believe miracles VS enchantress is the slowest non - mirror matchup in terms of time in
the legacy format and it's not particularly close.
For anyone who is still on the helm plan: Don't. Just stop. I played helm RIP with sigil and emrakul. I put in my reps
for four months. What happened was emrakul was like dryad arbor in that it made hands that were fine into virtual mulls, and made my actual mulls even worse. Then the deck doesn't mull very well in the first place. Then you realize sigil is extremely clunky - one of the reasons you were running emrakul in the first place was to circumvent countermagic and sigil fails at that spectacularly. But the biggest reason to run replenish over most of this other nonsense is that the matchup you should be beating basically all the time is miracles. their cards match up extremely poorly against yours. If you run the RIP helm kill, they can let everything but helm and sigil resolve and your out is a one of fifteen mana card. If you have replenish plus lock pieces, you can just bait with everything and cast it at the end. Replenish actually makes the deck far less reliant on enchantress effects due to it essentially drawing 3+ cards when cast.
The reason to run this deck is it's absurd miracles matchup. The reason this deck has an absurd matchup against miracles is replenish. You can't run them both because the wincons and lock pieces that they enable don't play well with each other EG running suppresion field in RIP-helm OR not having replenish making grove worse OR energy field
not working without RIP or Doomwake Giant being insane with replenish.
Can someone other than me test Seal of Fire? I wanna know if it's just me or that card actually is overperforming.
I've put that card in the jankiest of brew builds(Enchantress Ascendancy,5C Encantress) as well as the more
traditional GWR build and It's always exactly the neccesary tempo bridge that gives the deck time to transition between
phases of the game. Card just does it all.
Play 4 vial and a cavern.
You need a plan b in the main, I've been having success with stoneforge/ mother of runes/ SOFAI.
You also need a plan for sideboard games that dodges hate.
this list that ive benn having success with tackles these issues:http://manadeprived.com/showdown-recap-march-5th-legacy/
The fifth place list there.
That one from the source is also an option if you want discard over countermagic for some reason.
Good luck, no one will take you seriously or even want to help improve the deck right now. You need to have a string of good finishes if you want to even get help, so the deck will remain untuned until then.
As i keep telling people this is bad advice for my city, as i have multiple people who have top 8's in legacy gps to dodge
every friday if i decide to show up with stuff like merfolk, or high tide.
Also if everyone else is on the decks you mentioned, shocks also get way worse.
taking an extra 2-4 against burn is lethal.
taking an extra 2 in reanimator against anything with bolt gets you killed when you use reanimate.
and yeah, this makes any racing situation bad for you.
3 goblin guides = 1 mp tundra
4 badlands cost less than 2 grim monilith
4 savannah cost less than 3 city of traitors
no duals in mud, deck is super expensive, probbably build infect for the same price.
1 mystic retrieval
1 endless obedience
1 grislebrand/ iona / elesh norn/flamekin zealot/ avacyn angel of hope /flayer of the hatebound/ Whatevers clever Trevor
or something like that. the setup isn't insane or anything. Slots might be too tight at this point though.
Edit: Dont take this one seriously, but you can also retrieve empty the pits. busted delve!
Edit Edit : This ones even worse, temporal trespass! Get em!
With the growing wage gap in america, and the complete failure of the trickle down "experiment", I think I might have realized something.
Even assuming completely sociopathic business CEOS, the plan to redistribute wealth so that the average citizen gets poorer over time is directly counterproductive to the goal of making more money.
If you raise taxes on the rich, by a little bit at a time,as a percentage, can't you later, y'know, bilk the peasents for more money? Am i horribly misinformed or is this how developing countries.. develop?
Maybe my math is wrong? Lets see here... (napkin math incoming)
R = rich money = 1000
Rn number of rich guys = 10
P = poor money = 1000
Pn = number of poor guys = 1000
r / number of rich guys - 1% = 99
That doesn't sound too bad.
Call the number subtracted Rt(rich tax)
P / number of poor guys = 1
1 + Pn/(Pn/Rt) = 1.01
Call that NPM (new poor money)
Hmm that doesn't seem like much. My math is good so far though i think. Now then,
Assume 1% growth (its asking a lot but sometimes it happens)
NRM + 1% = 999.9
NPM + 1% = 1020.1
NPM - .5% = 1014.9995
Call that Pt (poor tax)
NRM + pt = 1005,0005
Did everyone get richer? Maybe poor tax happens first?
NPM - .5% = 1004.5
NRM + pt = 995.5
NRM + 1% growth = 1005.455
NPM + 1% growth = 1014.545
Yeah everyone just got richer. Trickle-up economics works.
The only way the current situation makes sense is if something like this conversation happened:
CEO: "Mr President, Please cut taxes on the rich."
President: "My finance guy just did the math, you know you're screwing yourselves too right? Long term,
everyone makes less money.
CEO: "Yeah i know, but I retire in two years, I'll be dead in twelve, you owe me for the campaign donations,
and my shareholders want gains this quarter."
President: "Fine, I'll do it, but you're gonna need to help me make the public stupid again."
CEO: "Advertising campaign?"
President: "Media too. They have to forget 9th grade math, ignore expert opinions that run counter to the narritve,
AND ignore other countries in similar economic situations."
CEO: "I can do the first two but the third ones tough. maybe start a war? I find xenophobia helps me forget
facts I don't like."
President: "That will tank the economy harder."
CEO: "Not my problem."
President: "Fine, i'll consider it."
I desperately want to be wrong about all this.
4 thug
4 GGT
4 STimp
2 dakmor salvage
2 nox revival
4 bloodghast
4 dryad arb
4 edge of autumn
4 prized am
4 death gate demon
4 call to netherworld
4 narco
4 bridges
4 probes
4 s wraith
3 shoal B
3 faerie mac
2 fetch Gx
1 forest
2 natural state
4 nature claim
og credit goes to hellhound, he said it was a first draft.
I am asking if he's having trouble understanding, but unfortunately he's the kind of person who says he gets something and then is totally surprised by how something actually works. I need to figure out what to do if I'm going to continue teaching him how to play.
I saw him do it, and it didn't take him that long to finish a game. Now, I am aware - Painfully aware - of how deficient DOTP is as a teaching tool, but I only showed it to him after a few paper games to solidify his understanding. I don't know what to do, he really wants to learn, but it's getting to the point where it's no longer fun to teach him. I even tried taking him to a draft, hoping that a tournament setting would get him to speed up his play.
His match took 2 hours 30 minutes, and then someone FINALLY called the judge over. This is no exaggeration, we were having a draft till you drop and no one in the draft queue got to play in another draft. Yes it was miserable. In the judges defense, the store was extremely busy and we should have informed him earlier.
What do i do?
The problem is that the threats that people play in legacy and the threats that people play in modern are, with a few exceptions, exactly the same. delver has mostly modern legal creatures, almost all the creatures in d&t are modern legal,hell look at the MtgGoldfish top 20 most played creatures in legacy. 16 of them are modern legal. Eldrazi is warping both formats at the moment, but removing those guys still leaves my point standing.
You have legacy threats and crummy answers. Again, I'm not advocating for anything crazy.
none of the cards I mentioned are quite good enough to see mainstream play in legacy, and most of them don't make the cut in that format. You'll also notice none of these cards are unconditional at all. They are more efficient, not even anywhere close to "strictly better" variations on what modern already does.
Everything else still stands though. I'm not advocating for force or wasteland here. I want modern to have access to the kind of answers to the kinds of problems presented by the power creep of creatures. free countermagic is obviously not okay, but if decks in this format are going to be able to present legacy level threats - and make no mistake, with the exception of combo, most of the threats between formats are the same - you're going to need answers sufficient to the task.
innocent blood, pernicious deed, contagion, abolish, cave in/ pyrokinesis, maybe misdirection if we're feeling risky.
No commander 20xx spells, no free countermagic, none of this we need twin back nonsense. Just the realization that spending two mana to kill most things in this format either feels awful or doesn't work.
they usually wish their ancient tombs and city of traitors were eldrazi temples.
You guys don't need bannings. you guys need efficient answers to common problems caused by modern creature design, and your'e not going to get that from wizards as long as unconditional creature removal is costed the same
as unconditional countermagic (see murder and cancel). Mark my words, if your format has trouble with hasted juzam djiin, you don't need to ban the lands, you need reasonable answers.
It blows my mind that your format doesn't have pernicious deed or innocent blood or any of the pitch spells that aren't force of will or ruination- hey you know what? no more blood moon, no more choke, no more stony silence.
energy flux, ruination, cataclysm. Stop complaining, it could be worse. Snapcaster ruin you.
I think the theory of the eldrazi matchup for this deck is that your deck matches up fairly well against theirs. they have big guys, you have confinement. they have spheres, you have growth effects. they have removal,
your guys have hexproof. The only wild cards are who's on the play and do they have chalice, but otherwise you having that kind of advantage is the definition of a good matchup.
O wow I just realized how good sphere of safety is in this matchup hahahahahaha
I'll just reiterate that seal of fire is bonkers and handles so many things that are otherwise problems, like
deathrite and delver and other stuff that gets under your locks and then creates an advantage that can't be
efficiently handled by grass. This card is enchantess's lightning bolt.
(stoneforge and small jace and bob and VClique and mentor and thalia and teeg and cannonist and wingmare and pyro and metalworker and on and on and on...)
length of miracles.
It should be emphasised that when playing this deck, management of your clock is extremely important. Espescially
against miracles. I firmly believe miracles VS enchantress is the slowest non - mirror matchup in terms of time in
the legacy format and it's not particularly close.
For anyone who is still on the helm plan: Don't. Just stop. I played helm RIP with sigil and emrakul. I put in my reps
for four months. What happened was emrakul was like dryad arbor in that it made hands that were fine into virtual mulls, and made my actual mulls even worse. Then the deck doesn't mull very well in the first place. Then you realize sigil is extremely clunky - one of the reasons you were running emrakul in the first place was to circumvent countermagic and sigil fails at that spectacularly. But the biggest reason to run replenish over most of this other nonsense is that the matchup you should be beating basically all the time is miracles. their cards match up extremely poorly against yours. If you run the RIP helm kill, they can let everything but helm and sigil resolve and your out is a one of fifteen mana card. If you have replenish plus lock pieces, you can just bait with everything and cast it at the end. Replenish actually makes the deck far less reliant on enchantress effects due to it essentially drawing 3+ cards when cast.
The reason to run this deck is it's absurd miracles matchup. The reason this deck has an absurd matchup against miracles is replenish. You can't run them both because the wincons and lock pieces that they enable don't play well with each other EG running suppresion field in RIP-helm OR not having replenish making grove worse OR energy field
not working without RIP or Doomwake Giant being insane with replenish.
Can someone other than me test Seal of Fire? I wanna know if it's just me or that card actually is overperforming.
I've put that card in the jankiest of brew builds(Enchantress Ascendancy,5C Encantress) as well as the more
traditional GWR build and It's always exactly the neccesary tempo bridge that gives the deck time to transition between
phases of the game. Card just does it all.