In light of the past year's legacy staples shooting sky-high, I think it is actually better to lock in on the workshop. If prices fall $X per card, it is better to own one card whose price only went down that $X than to own five cards who each went down $X.
i.e. Workshop goes down $40, not as big a deal as if all of your duals EACH went down $40. Personal trading philosophy is consolidate value when the market is high, liquidate those when the market is high, and buy in at the low point.
Not a huge fan of the new Nissa, she seemed underwhelming almost every time I played her. So few creatures means she usually ate whatever removal had previously been dead in their hand.
Xenagos could be an option, not sure how well he'd sit in here but I could see it providing a board state to at least chump block with. I'll try those changes in testing this evening with my playgroup. The roil isn't so great as I thought, decks playing Bile Blight just wreck you out of a well-developed board state.
Multiple Aggressive Mining isn't a great option, it's a card you only want to draw once you've played all of the rest of the hand and would like to start replenishing/shooting for damage. The Bow is great though, a second one might be worth playing but it's usually easy to find with the Hydras shooting for 5-10 cards and all of the lands being pulled out.
Honestly, I binge play decks. So I spent about 4-5 days straight playing this in my testing group and then put it down a couple days ago.
I really feel like it could be a contender, but the land number is perhaps a little high. Idk if Conley did some higher power magical number crunching, but I like the deck a lot less when I draw a 7-land opener than I do when I draw a 2-land opener.
Ali Aintrazi posted a very similar deck the very next morning, so perhaps his thread can warrant some more ideas. His deck went in a little bit of a different direction, and as Conley was calling the 3GG Enchantment that makes 2/2s for landdrops (can't recall the name) trash, Ali based his deck on it. So it's up in the air on that one I guess. I personally loved it against everything that didn't have access against Bile in Blight, but that's just me.
I seriously feel bad for derailing this really quick. Not sure how I'm supposed to go about this, but I read the last two pages of this thread and I'm really intrigued in the discussions here.
So, here's my clan entrance application I suppose!
----------------------------------------------------------
Personal
----------------------------------------------------------
Name: Kodie Yost
Age: 20 in a month
Location: Indiana, USA
----------------------------------------------------------
Magic Related
----------------------------------------------------------
Johnny, Timmy or Spike, etc: Spike
Favourite colour(s): Blue, then Black
Favourite set(s): the entire Zendikar block <3
Favourite creature type(s): lolno, I play instants and occasionally sorceries when required
Favourite card/cards: Mana Leak (first counterspell I ever played)
Favourite EDH general card: Momir (any U/G General really)
Favourite Planeswalker: JtMS
Favourite format: Legacy
Favourite artist(s): n/a
Favourite flavourtext(s): "Masters of the arcane savor a delicious irony. Their study of deep and complex arcana leads to such a simple end: the ability to merely say yes or no."
Favourite deck(s): Esperblade in Legacy, Esper Gifts in Modern, Esper Solar Flare last year's Standard, UR Pyromancer in Zendikar/Scars standard
When you started playing M:tG: 2007
----------------------------------------------------------
Various
----------------------------------------------------------
Favourite Food(s): Peanut butter anything
Favourite Band(s): ADTR/other pop punk bands, and a lot of country artists also.
Favourite Drink(s): VEMMA Renew, BodePro Build
Favourite Book(s): Atlas Shrugged
Hobbies (other then magic): Wrestling team at Ball State University, cliff jumping, snowboarding, physical activities, reading M:tG lore, et al
Instant Messenger: I guess you can add my skype? kmyost
----------------------------------------------------------
Sorry once again for derailing. I do find that this clan has the members I'm most similar to, and would like to further spend time with. I'm new to MTGS due to my old forum stomping grounds closing their site at some point during my last MtG hiatus, so I've come to join the forums here. Hopefully I will contribute to some discussions in a new way, to reflect a new mind.
The list is a basic throw-up of the elves deck. I've been testing it for about a week on Ctrice, and I spent a few hours with my playgroup this evening playing around with it and a couple other decks I've been toying with. It's hyper-aggressive with long-term reach in the form of the Obelisk and the Shaman. The Shrieks make this deck an aggro contender, allowing it to win races with pure surprise and close out games much quicker than most opponents suspect possible. Toughest match-up so far has been a UB Control list with MB aggro hosers like 4 Bile Blight and other hate.
Because the deck is so straightforward, I decided with the sideboard to keep it pretty linear; creature-based, not a lot of non-creatures will work in this deck.
The Eyeblight Assassin's come in *solely* on the play, against aggressive decks and mana dork decks (read: RG Devotion).
The Sage is in there as a catch-all, who knows what the format brings right?
The extra Shriek is for winning Aggro mirrors, lifegain is very relevant. Also comes in against control, need to close that game out quickly.
The Disciple is for aggro mirrors that have reach also (read: Goblin decks).
The 1-of Visionary is for Control decks. Advantage is king, I've heard. Deadbridge Shaman is the one I'm least happy about, but in midrange matches he really pulls a bit of weight. He's either a 3/1 beater or he's making them ditch a random card, which is pretty relevant when they're only looking at getting 5-6 draw steps, either getting blown out or wiping my board.
The extra Lord comes in for grindier games, also for aggro b/c of his lifegain.
Nylea is for midrange style decks, also Monster decks, because it's a fatty that has potential to pump a guy or two. Trample is also nice.
Any questions or suggestions, please feel free! I'm working with a lot of decks right now, so I might take a little while to get back to this haha.
I'm playing around with a G/B Elves deck. Played a lot of matches, haven't really ran into any problems. Pretty much outraces every deck in the format except for a U/B control deck I ran into playing a lot of weird MB aggro hosers.
Here's my list, if you wanna see where I'm going with it.
Combo-Midrange RG Lands, based on Conley Woods' 7/7/2015 article
Hello all!
Here is the link to the article by Conley Woods from 7/7/2015. He pretty much explains all of the possible card choices and certain numbers. I'd recommend reading the article before going over the deck.
After reading his analysis of the cards at around three in the morning, I decided to load the deck up on Cockatrice and see how it played out. After about five random matches against primarily Abzan decks, I came to a few different conclusions. But first, let me just start with the decklist I'm running through the gauntlet right now:
If you've read Conley's article, you undoubtedly see a good number of similarities. However, after playing an 8-man with the exact version he posted, I noticed I continued to lose to any deck that could put pressure on in the first four turns. Even with all of the lands that can gain the deck life, the deck had no way to put itself significantly out of reach from Siege Rhino and Stoke the Flame decks. And enter a singleton Bow of Nylea.
In a deck with as much consistent draw power as this deck, combined with the ability to be pulled out of the deck by Genesis Hydra, we have a lifegain engine that shoots two damage into Dragons (making our Vortex two dmg closer to a kill), pumps our Thopter tokens against Control, gains life against Aggressive decks and allows us to play a long-term game against creature-based decks (don't have to worry about running out of lands to launch at your opponent's face).
The Genesis Hydras feel pretty self-explanatory; they find your Vortex when you're ready to pressure for game, they find Atarka when you're in need of some 'walker removal, Bow of Nylea when you need to gain some quick life, and Aggressive Mining when you're in need of some extra cards.
I opted to cut Courser of Kruphix because it doesn't actually do a lot in this deck. Yes it leaves more lands in hand for Vortex to pitch later. Yes, it technically is card advantage. But the lack of impact on the game leaves the deck in want of a more proactive gameplan, which is why I opted to remove them. If you feel the extra lifegain is instrumental in the meta, then by all means play the Coursers over Hydras. Both have pros and cons
Even though it isn't perfect, I'm going to quickly go over the sideboard I prefer and the potential sideboard that I've considered.
As you can see, this is a transformative sideboard from the days of old. A Tron-style deck changing into an aggressive midrange deck isn't a huge change, but this helps in the Midrange matches where your game is pretty much hosed. That's the only matchup this deck seems awful against. Everything else seems entirely winnable once you become familiar with how the match plays, but this sideboard allows you to aggressively challenge an opponent and make the most of your excess mana.
In this plan, I generally remove 4 Foundry, 4 Bivouac, 4 Fountain, 3 Insight. I've considered playing 3 Draconic Roar over the 3 Crater's Claws in this version since it generally does the same thing - removes creatures - except it does so more efficiently, and it also makes for a good ole "Bolt to the dome" post-board. Also signals to the opponent that I may run Dragons early game, which may change their playstyle. Hopefully they don't suspect the Dragons out of the board ;-)
4 Anger of the Gods - basic aggro hoser, also works well to stall the game into your favor against midrange decks.
2 Chandra, Pyromancer - helps play under Aggressive Mining if you can't get the game sealed, as well as ping the opposing walkers and creatures.
3 Hornet Nest - good against Aggro, non-Black decks. hoses mono-red most of the time.
1 Nissa, Worldwaker - control has a difficult time beating us, and Nissa lets us make sure of that. Also good against midrange decks.
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon - against Dragons, Ugin is a solid wipe spell. Also helps us remove Aggressive Mining if we're in a rough position. Obv. Control hoser
2 Gaea's Revenge - another card to help us hose control, it doubles as a threat that Abzan can't deal with very easily.
1 Hornet Queen - another card to bring in against Dragons/creature-based decks. Maybe 2 of these/1 Gaea's Revenge
1 Bow of Nylea - to replace any card in the list that is dead in a specific match-up, doubles as answer to counterspell.dek (pump a small threat)
The deck and sideboard are by no means perfect, I've only had two days of playing with it as of writing this (posted after vacation b/c no signal for internet!), so please offer up any ideas to be included! I want to eventually make a primer for the archetype, once I've gotten the kinks worked out and played it in more diverse environments.
Can I get a full list for the BW Eldrazi Taxes to go from?
I've tried searching TCGPlayer but all the lists I find are over three months old.
I really like Strangler and Sculler has been a favorite for years - anyone that can help out?
The mana base and the correct numbers are where I'm struggling - sideboard isn't even a thought but I'll take any suggestions there as well!
i.e. Workshop goes down $40, not as big a deal as if all of your duals EACH went down $40. Personal trading philosophy is consolidate value when the market is high, liquidate those when the market is high, and buy in at the low point.
Xenagos could be an option, not sure how well he'd sit in here but I could see it providing a board state to at least chump block with. I'll try those changes in testing this evening with my playgroup. The roil isn't so great as I thought, decks playing Bile Blight just wreck you out of a well-developed board state.
Multiple Aggressive Mining isn't a great option, it's a card you only want to draw once you've played all of the rest of the hand and would like to start replenishing/shooting for damage. The Bow is great though, a second one might be worth playing but it's usually easy to find with the Hydras shooting for 5-10 cards and all of the lands being pulled out.
I really feel like it could be a contender, but the land number is perhaps a little high. Idk if Conley did some higher power magical number crunching, but I like the deck a lot less when I draw a 7-land opener than I do when I draw a 2-land opener.
Ali Aintrazi posted a very similar deck the very next morning, so perhaps his thread can warrant some more ideas. His deck went in a little bit of a different direction, and as Conley was calling the 3GG Enchantment that makes 2/2s for landdrops (can't recall the name) trash, Ali based his deck on it. So it's up in the air on that one I guess. I personally loved it against everything that didn't have access against Bile in Blight, but that's just me.
So, here's my clan entrance application I suppose!
----------------------------------------------------------
Personal
----------------------------------------------------------
Name: Kodie Yost
Age: 20 in a month
Location: Indiana, USA
----------------------------------------------------------
Magic Related
----------------------------------------------------------
Johnny, Timmy or Spike, etc: Spike
Favourite colour(s): Blue, then Black
Favourite set(s): the entire Zendikar block <3
Favourite creature type(s): lolno, I play instants and occasionally sorceries when required
Favourite card/cards: Mana Leak (first counterspell I ever played)
Favourite EDH general card: Momir (any U/G General really)
Favourite Planeswalker: JtMS
Favourite format: Legacy
Favourite artist(s): n/a
Favourite flavourtext(s): "Masters of the arcane savor a delicious irony. Their study of deep and complex arcana leads to such a simple end: the ability to merely say yes or no."
Favourite deck(s): Esperblade in Legacy, Esper Gifts in Modern, Esper Solar Flare last year's Standard, UR Pyromancer in Zendikar/Scars standard
When you started playing M:tG: 2007
----------------------------------------------------------
Various
----------------------------------------------------------
Favourite Food(s): Peanut butter anything
Favourite Band(s): ADTR/other pop punk bands, and a lot of country artists also.
Favourite Drink(s): VEMMA Renew, BodePro Build
Favourite Book(s): Atlas Shrugged
Hobbies (other then magic): Wrestling team at Ball State University, cliff jumping, snowboarding, physical activities, reading M:tG lore, et al
Instant Messenger: I guess you can add my skype? kmyost
----------------------------------------------------------
Sorry once again for derailing. I do find that this clan has the members I'm most similar to, and would like to further spend time with. I'm new to MTGS due to my old forum stomping grounds closing their site at some point during my last MtG hiatus, so I've come to join the forums here. Hopefully I will contribute to some discussions in a new way, to reflect a new mind.
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Elvish Mystic
3 Elvish Visionary
4 Gnarlroot Trapper
4 Shaman of the Pack
4 Thornbow Archer
4 Sylvan Messenger
4 Leaf Gilder
2 Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen
3 Foul-Tongue Shriek
4 Collected Company
Artifacts: 3
3 Obelisk of Urd
Lands: 17
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Temple of Malady
4 Forest
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Swamp
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Foul-Tongue Shriek
1 Nylea's Disciple
4 Eyeblight Assassin
1 Elvish Visionary
4 Deadbridge Shaman
1 Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen
2 Nylea, God of the Hunt
Because the deck is so straightforward, I decided with the sideboard to keep it pretty linear; creature-based, not a lot of non-creatures will work in this deck.
The Eyeblight Assassin's come in *solely* on the play, against aggressive decks and mana dork decks (read: RG Devotion).
The Sage is in there as a catch-all, who knows what the format brings right?
The extra Shriek is for winning Aggro mirrors, lifegain is very relevant. Also comes in against control, need to close that game out quickly.
The Disciple is for aggro mirrors that have reach also (read: Goblin decks).
The 1-of Visionary is for Control decks. Advantage is king, I've heard.
Deadbridge Shaman is the one I'm least happy about, but in midrange matches he really pulls a bit of weight. He's either a 3/1 beater or he's making them ditch a random card, which is pretty relevant when they're only looking at getting 5-6 draw steps, either getting blown out or wiping my board.
The extra Lord comes in for grindier games, also for aggro b/c of his lifegain.
Nylea is for midrange style decks, also Monster decks, because it's a fatty that has potential to pump a guy or two. Trample is also nice.
Any questions or suggestions, please feel free! I'm working with a lot of decks right now, so I might take a little while to get back to this haha.
I'm not sure what I would consider taking out, any suggestions?
Here's my list, if you wanna see where I'm going with it.
4 Leaf Gilder
4 Sylvan Messenger
2 Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Elvish Mystic
3 Elvish Visionary
4 Gnarlroot Trapper
4 Shaman of the Pack
4 Thornbow Archer
3 Foul-Tongue Shriek
4 Collected Company
Artifacts: 3
3 Obelisk of Urd
Lands: 17
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Temple of Malady
4 Forest
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Swamp
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Foul-Tongue Shriek
1 Nylea's Disciple
4 Eyeblight Assassin
1 Elvish Visionary
4 Deadbridge Shaman
1 Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen
2 Nylea, God of the Hunt
Hello all!
Here is the link to the article by Conley Woods from 7/7/2015. He pretty much explains all of the possible card choices and certain numbers. I'd recommend reading the article before going over the deck.
After reading his analysis of the cards at around three in the morning, I decided to load the deck up on Cockatrice and see how it played out. After about five random matches against primarily Abzan decks, I came to a few different conclusions. But first, let me just start with the decklist I'm running through the gauntlet right now:
2 Aggressive Mining
4 Magmatic Insight
4 Animist's Awakening
Lands
6 Forest
4 Foundry of the Consuls
4 Frontier Bivouac
7 Mountain
4 Radiant Fountain
4 Rugged Highlands
4 Temple of Abandon
1 Temple of Mystery
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Molten Vortex
3 Genesis Hydra
1 Dragonlord Atarka
3 Crater's Claws
Lifegain/Graveyard Cycling
1 Bow of Nylea
4 Anger of the Gods
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Destructive Revelry
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Gaea's Revenge
1 Hornet Queen
1 Bow of Nylea
If you've read Conley's article, you undoubtedly see a good number of similarities. However, after playing an 8-man with the exact version he posted, I noticed I continued to lose to any deck that could put pressure on in the first four turns. Even with all of the lands that can gain the deck life, the deck had no way to put itself significantly out of reach from Siege Rhino and Stoke the Flame decks. And enter a singleton Bow of Nylea.
In a deck with as much consistent draw power as this deck, combined with the ability to be pulled out of the deck by Genesis Hydra, we have a lifegain engine that shoots two damage into Dragons (making our Vortex two dmg closer to a kill), pumps our Thopter tokens against Control, gains life against Aggressive decks and allows us to play a long-term game against creature-based decks (don't have to worry about running out of lands to launch at your opponent's face).
The Genesis Hydras feel pretty self-explanatory; they find your Vortex when you're ready to pressure for game, they find Atarka when you're in need of some 'walker removal, Bow of Nylea when you need to gain some quick life, and Aggressive Mining when you're in need of some extra cards.
I opted to cut Courser of Kruphix because it doesn't actually do a lot in this deck. Yes it leaves more lands in hand for Vortex to pitch later. Yes, it technically is card advantage. But the lack of impact on the game leaves the deck in want of a more proactive gameplan, which is why I opted to remove them. If you feel the extra lifegain is instrumental in the meta, then by all means play the Coursers over Hydras. Both have pros and cons
Even though it isn't perfect, I'm going to quickly go over the sideboard I prefer and the potential sideboard that I've considered.
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
3 Destructive Revelry
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Gaea's Revenge
1 Hornet Queen
1 Bow of Nylea
4 Rattleclaw Mystic
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Thunderbreak Regent
As you can see, this is a transformative sideboard from the days of old. A Tron-style deck changing into an aggressive midrange deck isn't a huge change, but this helps in the Midrange matches where your game is pretty much hosed. That's the only matchup this deck seems awful against. Everything else seems entirely winnable once you become familiar with how the match plays, but this sideboard allows you to aggressively challenge an opponent and make the most of your excess mana.
In this plan, I generally remove 4 Foundry, 4 Bivouac, 4 Fountain, 3 Insight. I've considered playing 3 Draconic Roar over the 3 Crater's Claws in this version since it generally does the same thing - removes creatures - except it does so more efficiently, and it also makes for a good ole "Bolt to the dome" post-board. Also signals to the opponent that I may run Dragons early game, which may change their playstyle. Hopefully they don't suspect the Dragons out of the board ;-)
4 Anger of the Gods - basic aggro hoser, also works well to stall the game into your favor against midrange decks.
2 Chandra, Pyromancer - helps play under Aggressive Mining if you can't get the game sealed, as well as ping the opposing walkers and creatures.
3 Hornet Nest - good against Aggro, non-Black decks. hoses mono-red most of the time.
1 Nissa, Worldwaker - control has a difficult time beating us, and Nissa lets us make sure of that. Also good against midrange decks.
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon - against Dragons, Ugin is a solid wipe spell. Also helps us remove Aggressive Mining if we're in a rough position. Obv. Control hoser
2 Gaea's Revenge - another card to help us hose control, it doubles as a threat that Abzan can't deal with very easily.
1 Hornet Queen - another card to bring in against Dragons/creature-based decks. Maybe 2 of these/1 Gaea's Revenge
1 Bow of Nylea - to replace any card in the list that is dead in a specific match-up, doubles as answer to counterspell.dek (pump a small threat)
Other deck/sideboard options (to be edited later):
Destructive Revelry, Courser of Kruphix, Atarka's Command, Nissa, Vastwood Seer
The deck and sideboard are by no means perfect, I've only had two days of playing with it as of writing this (posted after vacation b/c no signal for internet!), so please offer up any ideas to be included! I want to eventually make a primer for the archetype, once I've gotten the kinks worked out and played it in more diverse environments.