I totally understand that! There are a lot of really good sideboard options now a days - I think it comes down to what you think you will see the most of. Like if there isn't that much Tron in your area you can probably safely cut back on damping sphere.. You don't necessarily need to show up with answers to everything if you know that a good majority will be playing Jeskai lol
As for play style - I usually try to race because the more mana they have the harder the game gets.. This usually involves playing out my mana dorks/nettles/and a lord (leaving a copy in hand if I have multiple)...
And currently I have cut Chord of calling (a lot of winning lists have done the same). it's gotten to a point that unless you are playing the combo GW it is just better to run lead the stampede to keep your hand full
And for the Elvish Visionary - I don't think they are that big of a deal. I used to run 2 but never liked them.. Like when you dump your hand and end on a Visionary it definitely feels anticlimactic lol.. Right now I am experimenting with Steel Leaf Champion in its place because it avoids chump blockers which is really good given the amount of young pyromancer tokens and tiny humans running amuck haha
Hope this helps!
Thanks for the information :). It is definitely hard to know what I will see at the tournament but I know in the past I’ve seen Tron, Eldrazi Arron, Grixis, Jund and Humans. I’m also aware that one of my playtesting group will be on UW Control for sure, and I also imagine I will see either Lantern or KCI cuz it’s big right now.
Glad to know that Visionary is not that big of a deal it makes me feel better about going down or cutting them completely.
I do agree that Lead is better the Next chord that’s why I only run 2 Chord because there are games I’ve one by Chording for Shaman and I’ve also put my Selfless Spirit mainboard as a cordable Target game 1 against boardwipes, I think if I cut chord completely I need to go from Abzan to just GB.
I will take both yours and marcWizard advice into account next time I play UW. I’m so used to just going off with elves and playing my entire hand out even CoCo it Lead by T2 or T3 if I can, but if I know my OP is on uw I should start trying to sandbag some instant speed reaction, or go off and cast lead early but hold the creatures.
Edit- people are also suggesting thoughtscour to replace it. I wouldn't mind it either, as it synergistic with Reveler and Snapcaster mage if i wanna target myself.
While I will agree that Thought Scour synergizes well with Snapcaster and Reveler I personally feel our deck is not set up best to take full advantage from it. If we compare this to other decks potentially running this card: Grixis/Esper/Sultai all have access to Gurmag Angler and Tasigur, Grixis also has K-Command, Esper has Lingering Souls some lists also pack Think Twice, All of these decks also have access to Liliana, The last Hope. Having these card options are what makes this such a powerful card to run IMO. In our list we are only running most times 2 Snap and 2 Reveler and if we mill those with thought scour we gained no real value. I won't say not to test it I just believe we are not set up to take best advantage.. Could potentially add some Logic Knots if we want to get more GY action.
Try to keep the tears in :-/. Get one more 4-0 finish with the deck!
I am actually really excited to get to brew a little again. It's not the circumstances I wanted, but maybe this will be a blessing in disguise. I was getting to the point where the deck only had 1 flex spot left so now I get to play around with 4 flex spots. I haven't decided on an option yet, but will keep you all posted on how my testing goes with different cards.
Brewing and testing are one of the best parts of making our decks, finding better synergy and plays etc. I personally believe that Gitaxian Probe was lack luster, It could of been my list specifically but I never really wanted to draw it.. The knowledge i got from it mostly just allowed me to play around a counter spells to drop geist since he cannot be spot removed but We can also do that just by watching how our opponant taps their mana. I think this banning is good for us, it is forcing everyone to start exploring different options that never got explored because Gitaxian Probe kind of became a "I must have this card because I am tempo" which I do not think was necessarily correct
Those bans though. If you want something that does exactly what Probe does then Peek is your go to, the lesser value though that you have to pay for it with mana will hurt. Personally I believe the best card for us will be Ancestral Vision. It does not exactly trigger prowess when we want it which is a downside but I think the meta will be slowing down now. As mentioned above Deaths Shadow Aggro is going to get hurt hard, All-in Kiln Fiend decks will be hit but still survivable, Infect needs a replacement (not all important but helpful), Dredge is going to slow down again. WOTC is pushing the format more and more towards later games, they do not want consistent T3 kills, Ancestral Visions gives us just another way to fill our hands back up making us viable late game giving us more burn, more prowess triggers etc. The other card i see worth while is Faithless Looting. my problem with Mutagenic Growth, Distortion Strike, Expedite, Slip Through Space is all of these require a creature on board meaning they have potential to be a dead draw for us 1-2 ofs of things like these are great "gotcha" cards but a full playset i think is under utilized in our deck without going full prowess/aggro. Faithless Looting still allows us to dig deeper into our decks, puts more in the Graveyard for Snapcaster Potentially or smooths our mana. With a playset of these in the deck it is possible we could drop 1 or 2 lands because we have both serum and faithless allowing us to dig for them.
A card that wasn't mentioned above that we could potentially take advantage of is Noxious Revival, We can get back creatures, bolts, helix, counters, snapcaster etc.. I think this card would be worth testing, an exact number of how many I do not know. Late game delver draw with this after puts an instant/sorcery on top so we can flip delver guaranteed
Come to think of it, Deaths Shadow and Kiln Fiend might just start running the Revivals as well.
This deck looks really fun. Would young pyromancer be better in the aggro version or the tempo version?
Welcome to the topic Crssherman1990! I personally believe that Young.P fits more into the tempo/control version rather then the Aggro/Tempo. I was running her for a bit there in my list before I did a complete overhaul of my deck list, she is nothing to laugh at, her sticking can save your life or end our opponents.
The reason I do not find her to be in the more aggro version of he deck is that she is a T2, she doesn't impact the game state immediately and very rarely the following turn as you probably got to cast maybe 1 phyrexian spell with her if you cast her T2. As a tempo play she is great because she allows for you to go wide with having blockers or generate enough tokens that you can swing with creatures weather they get blocked or not. In the aggro builds you really want to bring life totals down close enough that bolt or bolt-snap-bolt can win it in the mid game when hey have stabilized (unless your running mentor or Geist).
Played a bunch of games yesterday testing with my 2x Steel of the Godhead back in the deck. Now i want to preface this with the fact this card will NOT fit into alot of the decks i have seen posted, I chose to run this from personal preference, my priority focus on Geist of Saint Traft and that I cannot find another replacment for the Vapor Snags.
I faced a handful of different decks and I cannot remember all the details so i do not have alot of write up about each match specifically but i will post the few things i do remember (it was a long night playing from 5:30 to Midnight). Decks i faced were: Abzan, Esper Processors, UB Faeries, Bant Eldrazi, Infect, Dredge.
Abzan 2-1: Game 1 was fairly straight forward for Abzan, he would use some sort of THoughtsieze on T1 making me discard but that just wasnt enough, he curved great with T1 Discard into Bob/Goyf/Ooze etc however i kept his board clear. Once I landed Geist i got a shot in and he dropped Seige Rhino, I slapped Steel of the Godhead on Geist the following turn and he couldn't keep up.
Game 2: I just drew everything to late, i had land, i had removal but i didn't draw my first Delver until T5, by this point it was long over due, i put up a fight and got him down to 5or6 still but he eventually just out paced me
Game 3: I just controlled this game from the start, I bolted his creatures and Remand / Snap remanded his spells. I again won this match with an enchanted Geist.
Esper Processors 0-3: Again i just cannot win this match up.. I did make 1 mistake which was that i dropped Elspeth with Geist on board trying to bait out a counter or spell queller so i could use my enchantment the next turn but he didn't have a countersepll had I dropped the enchantment instead i would of won. one game was just terrible though, i kept a very poor hand (bad mistake) to which i had 1 land and kept drawing spells i couldnt cast, ended up with 2 Geist in hand and had to discard so i discarded a geist... He hit me with Surgical extraction for that blunder. Another game he had ashiok out and kept exiling my stuff, eventually exiled both my snaps, 1 delver, 1 geist and 1 angel. Snaps allowed him to re-path my non geist creatures and I just couldn't get through.
UB Faeries 3-0: We played a 3rd game while waiting for matches to finish.
Game 1: I got my spells out quickly knowing i needed to get under his counter faeries and was able to out pace him with Delver and Geist.
Game 2: he got the point where he had to just block with bitterblossom faeries, I had Delver, Angel and Geist all on board, kept swinging in with my Angel and Delver forcing him to block.. every other creature he played either was on blocking duty or got bolted/helixed
Game 3: He got land screwed, ended up with only 2 Bitterblossoms on board ( I was going to cryptic his the turn before but i allowed the second to land) I essentially just kept swinging with Angel again and let Bitter Blossom kill him.
Infect 2-1: Game 1: His dropped elf T1 to which i bolted immediately, Hirearch got Helixed and i landed Delver and Geist. I unfortunatley just got beat down by a Nexus in the end as i forgot it had flying and left Geist back on blocking duty..
Game 2: Sideboarded (IN: 2x Negate, 1 Spell Pierce, 1 Dispel, 2 Surgical Extraction 1 Blessed Alliance) This was his nightmare, my opening hand consisted of 2x Path, 2x Bolt, 1 Spell Pierce, 2x Land. Every creature he played died, he even probed me to see the spells and try and play around it by forcign me to play certain spells... it didn't matter as i drew into a Cryptic and countered a Hirearch and bounced his Nexus after he played a land for turn.
Game 3: Similart to Game 2, just removed everything he had except i had 2 flipped delvers by T3
Bant Eldrazi 2-0: I do not remember this one sorry guys.. what i do recall is he got no Thougt-Knot Seer, i pathed every threat and Geist with Steel won the game. I did make 1 mistake though in forgetting that Drowner of hope can tap my creatures so i tapped out for Elspeth to make Gesit big to deal the last 12 points of damage (geist and delver on board) but he tapped down my delver.. I should of pathed Drowner instead of Elspeth.
Dredge 1-2: Game 1: I maintained control, bolting, pathing, helixing everything i could outside of Nacromebas, this kept me with enough life (thank you helix) and by time i dropped Godhead on Geist it was over, i gained ot much life per 2
Game 2/3: these were almost Identical, he exploded early and i drew little removal. I did deal with a couple of his Prized Amalgams and got my enchanted Geist again but it was to late.
I did face the Esper Processors deck again but vs someone who doesn't know hwo to use it properly so i ended up stomping him so i don't count this match same goes with the matches we had intermitent of other games finishing. All in All 4-2 for the night
I am happy with the Enchantment and never found that only 25 spells hurt my Delver.. the times when he didnt flip early i drew creature land or elspeth so even if those had been Snags he still wouldn't have flipped. It is a very underplayed card in modern but i found it a very good way of getting in extra damage unblocked instead of a 1 time use with the others... Also 4 life per turn is nothing to laugh at. The rest of the deck remained as smooth as it was before, Delver is still the best T1 play (outside of bolting infect creatures) and Resto Angel makes for a big threat. I am happy with where my deck is now until WoTC decides to release some better counter magic, or 1cmc spells etc that fit my deck.
1 Card that has come up in speculation thought is my Gitaxian Probes. I used them in the games but the information is less valuable i think with Geist in play.. If i face something with Flash or an Aether vial its worth knowing their hand in case they flash in to block but once the enchantments lands you cannot block anymore. I currently do not have plans of removing this card as it is still very strong and makes for sideboard fodder but out of the entire deck this would be the card I say is the least effective and would consider replacing for something better or more control if i need to (i actually sided all of these out against Infect)
@Stevomat: I absolutely love your basics! I myself am running full arts but I am always looking out for those old school foils, they just add something special and now after they reprinted the full arts they are nothing special anymore (kind off). The nostalgia is just way to good.
But I also love my whiteboardered blood moon, I think I am one off the few weird people liking WB cards.
The "problem" I see with your SB is that 9/15 cards make your delver and snapcaster worse, lowering your I&S count. Cage is an awesome card, but it basically gets rid of our reach potential, not entirely but considerably.
What are the cards you name with Pithing needle? Would there be instants or sorceries that could do kind of the same? If you are naming manlands most of the time my question isnt relevant, but if you are naming for instance planeswalkers why dont you just add the negate? It is not exactly the same, but it works well with Snap and Delver. Maybe one copy of stony can be a second wear//tear.
Thats how I am running my SB.
Some of your cards in the maybe board are really spicy, I really like the redirect and I love the Elspeth (I am running her myself). Ral Zarek is sweet as well but he just is a inferior Ajani Vengeant, Blessed Alliance can be so good against so many MUs like ZOO, Deaths Shadow, Titan Breach to some extent, the nice thing about it is, that its just so versatile.
I havent had a problem with casting elspeth and I am running 19 lands just like you are, so this should be no problem.
@Rafiq:
Sry for not replying but there wasnt anything I would have changed and I like that you are going a different route. And I dont think that 4 geist is that bad, because you can just suicide the first one and get on board with another one right afterwards.
@ian:
I can see your point on geist it is just that I started playing this deck because of him and I will not remove him. Against creature heavy decks he just isnt that good, but against control decks he is so anoying to deal with if he gets to stick.
Currently I am trying one boros charm main board and I really would like to fit another one into my 60 but I dont know what to cut right now.
Maybe I can get myself together and make some pictures of my deck as well, but I think I will wait for my chinese Cliques to arrive.
I am with you on Geist here Mazereon, I got into Modern to play Geist, I wanted to build the perfect deck for Geist which is why my list has deviated from where it was by adding in Resto angel etc to abuse Geist more. I do however disagree that against creature heavy decks he isn't that good. As Jeskai we run (in my opinion) the best, most versatile removal spells out there, and we run so many of them. I've said it before that creatures are useless against us, this is why Negate is such a good counter for decks like ours as we don't care as much for creatures. There ar every few games where my opponent can keep 1 creature on board let alone try and block Geist... and then when they do Resto saves him but thats my list specific. On top of this the title of our deck is Tempo, and the burn spells that we use for not only removal but for that reach and Geist is that reach/tempo as well. Even without running 4 geist like my list where I slap another down, to suicide in and get that 4 angel damage through and then hit you with burn still kills quickly. We can be a burn deck if we need to, we can be the aggressor if we need to and we can win the counter wars. Take for example you do not draw Delver or a Swiftspear first 3 turns but instead have Bolt/Helix/Boros Chamrm, by turn 3 alone you can easily get the opponent with over half their life, T1 Bolt, T2 Bolt, Helix, T3 Geist, T4 Attack, Boros Charm, Bolt/Helix.. this path here is an easy 20 damage and Geist himself doesn't need to connect. People do not fear Geist, they fear his angel.
Alright @StevomatUWR i got results from testing last night. I do not have turn by turn detail but can provide what information i do remember, also to note there was no Sideboarding as i do not have a complete one. we played a total of 5 games to which i went 4-1. Delvers as he always does provides a huge amount of threat in the beginning and having geist in multiples was never an issue as i could just recast if he died in combat. Games with results as follows:
2-1 vs Jund: Every game started the same, he would thoughtsieze or inquisition me and he always took away my Geist he had a huge fear of him. In every game i faced against 3 Liliana's, dealing with them is super easy, i either killed her with a Bolt after allowing her to make me Sac a geist (i had multiples), another I killed with my flipped Delver and Snapcaster on board (he didnt want to make me Sac knowing i would just sac Snap), and the other i flashed in Resto angel EoT and killed her next turn. The 1 game i lost was a mistake on my part, i thought the board was clear and did not see the raging ravine on the board to which he blocked geist and double bolted my angel, i lost to the ravine after since i only drew lands.
1-2 vs Eldrazi Flash?: This is a home brew so without explaining the entire deck my loses were because Eldrazi Displacer either kept Delver un flipped or removed my geist angel so I couldn't attack, I couldn't counter a whole lot as he is running Aether Vials and due to this trying to cast removal while he has 3 mana and 3 Aether Vials with 3 charge counters on them and Spell Queller in deck was very challenging. Had i drawn 1 of my Cryptic Commands I could of won these matches but i never saw either of them so i folded to the massive power on board.
2-0 vs Grixis Control: MB this deck does not have ways of dealing with Geist and it shows because once i landed Geist he knew he had a couple turns to draw Engineered Explosives and hope I do not have another one. These games all played out the same riding on the back of Geist and i believe both ended with bolt or Helix up top for the reach.
2-1 vs Infect: I due to all my removal in my list this MU is fairly easy, I am almost garunteed to have 1-2 removal in my opening hand and i have found that holding back delver to go for T1 bolt, T2 Bolt/HJelix/Path and then landing a Geist or Delver T3 sets Infect back so much. The only card harder to player around is Inkmoth Nexus as this players infect deck is alot about protection so it has less T2 kills which means it can hold out for a bit and just win via protecting Nexus so it is something I have to play around. the second game that I wont against him though was due to triple flipped delver... altho I didn't flip them until T5 when all 3 were on board hahah
2-1 vs Infect: We played again to end the night, the games went fairly similar, my saving grace this time around was drawing Vapor Snag to Snag the nexus, and then 2 turns later Snap snag the nexus, as well as blocking with flipped Delvers against the Nexus... that card is difficult to beat.. Even EoT due to his deck design trying to Bolt, Helix, Path etc is hard as he usually had 2+ forms of protection in hand.
All in all i felt the deck was smooth, I always had a delver, and I always had a Geist and Restoration angel proved to be a large threat despite people not fearing her since she isnt hexproof. I got to use her to save Geists, kill Liliana's, flicker a snapcaster for an additional flashbacked bolt, all around she was just strong. Elspeth did her thing again, our Jund player had never seen her and so when i was making Resto Angel +3/+3 after he removed Her with removal he didnt realize she gave flying, so he left blockers back for my flashed in snapcaster mage who flew over top. I like the tempo/threat balance of having Delver T1, counter/removal T2 and Geist T3 if i do not need to hold back, it keeps the opponents off their toes. Running the 4-of for each burn spells provided a huge amount of consistency to my Delver flips and my threats, opponents could not keep any creatures on board (excluding the Eldrazi FLash deck) and it doubling up as burn to the top is great. Probes are still worth it, facing against Grixis Control or Infect being able to see what i am working with helps alot in how i decide to turn the corner or play out the game, makes for much safer plays. Also with running 4-of Helix i can afford to be a bit more aggressive with my shock lands and probes (5 shocks and 3 probes) as i can handle the life loss, but once i had 1 of each shock land i am also safe to start getting some basics to. Chandra, Torch of Defiance i still really like her but my thought were right, I saw her in some opening hands which I mulligand away but i would gladly keep Elspeth in my opener, and the one game i did draw her (last infect game) I didnt want to cast her as i needed blockers for his 2 elf's so i cast Geist and flashed in Snap/Bolt on his turn.
I like how the deck ran it is where i want to be, Cryptic is super easy even with 19 lands and the UUU is no problem since all but 3 of my 19 lands produce it. I think the Chandra needs to go but I am not sure for what at this point. Our host in my Meta was telling me I should put back in 2x Steel of the Godhead as it means i win for sure when geist is on board, or Postboard it can hit a Spellqueller, It can even hit the resto angel just for lifelink. Other options would be to add in 1 more Angel, or a Snap (if i bite the bullet).. another option i heard was to change it a bit further and run 4-of Delver, Geist, Snap and 3 Resto, to do this though i would need to Drop Chandra and 2 other spells.. which would most likely end up being the Vapor Snags.
Anyone got some suggestions for replacing Chandra? the godhead enchantment is super fun to play on a geist but not sure.
I too like the tempo list Rafiq. I have found that Geist gives the deck an added dimension without sacrificing the rest of the decks gameplan. The top end of the deck is the part that I am still working on and it appears that's the area you are currently questioning too.
That way I gain a bit more draw consistency and I should already be running three snapcasters anyways. He is the best blue creature in modern. Also both of them work very well with Vapor Snag and Saheeli Rai. I also added another land to the deck because I feel 19 lands is more consistent and flooding is not as much of an issue. Here is what I ended up on:
I like the split of one Slip Through Space and one Distortion Strike. It has worked well for me, but I would probably suggest just running two copies of whichever the player prefers.
A card I am currently thinking about adding is Peek. I might cut either a path or a vapor snag because we have so much creature removal and possibly another card to give peek a try. It would be nice to have an instant speed cantrip to flash back with snapcaster mage for value. Wizards just needs to answer my Christmas wish and reprint Opt!
As for your build, I think you're spot on. To be honest, it looks great as it is. I would probably cut one of the planeswalkers and put them into your sideboard for more grindy matchups. That's what I did with Monastery Mentor. I also think you would be better suited with a copy of Boros Charm rather than 4 copies of Lightning Helix. It's just such a versatile card. Maybe if you do cut the planeswalker you could give a one of unblockable spell a try. Before you make any changes give it a go as you built it because it looks really great just the way you built it. Just keep these ideas in the back of your mind if something feels wrong.
Keep us posted on how the Resto angels and cryptics go. Those are cards a ton of people would love to play if they work well. Resto works wonderfully with snapcaster mage and Geist so I assume she will be very good.
So far without testing the list there are 2 cards i have thought might be worth switching to something else Chandra, Torch of Defiance and 1 Gitaxian Probe. Without testing it is hard to know if the 3rd probe is required, I like it for the cantrip obviously but it also gives alot of valuable information to make sure I can turn the corner with geist to attack or even cast him if i am worried about counter spells or board wipes. Chandra i stated my opinions above, I love her as a card she is great and has been awesome in the deck as it is but with changing the list how I am right now it is hard to know if she will fit. If i pull these 2 i could put in some combination of Boros Charm or Slip Through Space in their place, or if i ever decide to bite the bullet potentially 1 or 2 more Snapcasters but we will see with that haha. As for the Lightning Helix, i know alot of people here are not fans of running 4 copies, and i see where everyone is coming from.. Personally though i had the most fun with my deck when it had 4 bolt and 4 helix, the life gain is nothing to laugh at and it is just that much more removal. The above list currently has 14 for sure removal spells, 8 can be sent up top, Snap makes it so i have another 2 potential spells, plus Chandra can be a removal spell if needed, and Cryptic can bounce a scary creature if i need it to. I like having so much removal.
Creature removal you are correct we have so much which is why i feel like aside from remand (the cantrip makes me biased) the best counter spells for us are Negate or Spell Pierce since i know personally i am never afraid of the creature on the other side with the exception of Bogles but thats what the sideboard is for. When it comes to the mentor he is a card i think is fairly difficult to work with (just my opinion) on his own he is amazing and can take over the game as even creating 2 tokens and then getting 2 prowess triggers on the turn they can attack is 10 damage (plus if those triggers are bolts it is GG) but you need the right spell package to work with him so he can be a bit more of a challenge to operate. With your list curd I think Mentor could work still on your top end.. I do like the 3rd snapcaster but I think he could still work for you.. Saheeli Rai copying a Mentor sounds like Gravy.
Well I bit the bullet, went to the card store looking for homunculus, ended up trading in $20 worth of cards and walking out with my 2nd snapcaster and a foil Ojutai's command haha
Hi everyone. I hope everyone who celebrated Thanksgiving yesterday had a great day! I also hope everyone who didn't celebrate Thanksgiving yesterday also had an equally great day!
I'm glad to see the forum was a active as ever. Here are my thoughts on the current topics and the question of the week at the end:
As or Pyromancer's Ascension, this would be a tough addition because it's a two drop that doesn't immediately affect the game. It really takes a large number of cantrips to make this work. It's really tough to balance the perfect amount of the "cycle" or "air" spells in the deck with the creatures and action spells. I do think there is definitely a perfect connection between doubling spells and prowess, however the deck contains so much area you really have to combo off by like turn 3 or 4. There was a successful accession Thing in the Ice deck being played for a bit and it looked rather strong. However, I don't think this card fits naturally into a tempo style build.
As for the 1 and 2 drop discussion, I tend to agree with Cronax. I have found Monastery Swiftspear to be extremely powerful and to be a perfect compliment for delver. The deck does have to be a bit more aggro centric to support Swiftspear and also requires a larger number of cantrips. However this more aggressive take also allows Bedlam Reveler to really shine in the build. I do think the deck can be built in a more controlling manner utilizing Young Pyromancer in the place of Monastery Swiftspear. There is a two drop creature that I thought I would love, but that I have been consistently underwhelmed with and that is Stormchaser Mage. Because we have so much removal and some unblockable spells, the additional evasion with flying and the additional point of toughness simply doesn't make up for the additional mana cost. In a super aggressive deck I assume Stormchaser[ Mage would be a much better choice, but tend to play a tempo deck that starts aggressively.
There are two different two drops that I am really interested in right now and thus comes the question of the week: Have you tried Abbot of Keral Keep and/or Curious Homunculus in your testing? and What do you think of these two drops in your personal build?
Before Bedlam Reveler and Slip through space were an option I did play two copies of Abbot of Keral Keep for a short time. Abbot is actually my second favorite magic card every printed behind Geist of Saint Traft. The deck was much more on the midrange end of the scale and abbot always performed well, especially against the more grndy matchups. When I went to a more tempo oriented deck Abbot was cut, but I still keep him in my box and am probably going to give him a try in the sideboard sometime.
I am super interested in Curious Homunculus right now. I am going to build a second deck for fun that utilizes homunculus. It will still be based around the prowess mechanic so I will post it here when I get it finished, but I believe this card has been vastly over looked. I know that several of you have posted about it in the past and would love to hear if any of you all were able to test it and how it went.
To the topic of my deck, nothing has changed over the past month. I think it has reached a fairly consistent build for me right now. If the meta changes and after the new set comes out in January along with the new ban/unban announcement I'm sure the deck will be tweaked slightly. Until then I am really enjoying my current build and it has been performing very well.
One final note for everyone. I have been working on putting a document together that lists all of the major tournament results for jeskai delver/aggro/prowess as well as the publications regarding the deck. At the end of the month I will send the document to several of the mods to bolster our case for inclusion in the Developing Competitive tab instead of Deck Creation. I have a feeling we will be "promoted" after this month. So, if you come looking for the topic and it's not here after December 4th make sure to look in the developing competitive section. I will keep you all posted.
I originally discounrd the Curious Homunculus // Voracious Reader because alot of our spells have not included a colorless mana source to them for us to really take affect of all of what he brings to the table, however at the moment since i have not found a creature package i truly like I think it is high time i get some testing with him in.. so lets see, i know some spells will need to change in my MB to utilize him the best and i wonder, would homunculus allow us to play Cryptic Command easier? I know it is still UUU but i know with my deck i personally have 8 available blue sources so maybe this is an option? anyways how does this look for testing purposes.
The Cryptics may be better Sideboard to replace Planeswalkers if needed instead of MB. Also with Homunculus we can then use Unsubstantiate as a 1CMC spell instead of Vapor Snag so this is another option MB to replace Snag instead of the Cryptics. Let me know what you all think, I am actually wanting to test this creature now.
1
Thanks for the information :). It is definitely hard to know what I will see at the tournament but I know in the past I’ve seen Tron, Eldrazi Arron, Grixis, Jund and Humans. I’m also aware that one of my playtesting group will be on UW Control for sure, and I also imagine I will see either Lantern or KCI cuz it’s big right now.
Glad to know that Visionary is not that big of a deal it makes me feel better about going down or cutting them completely.
I do agree that Lead is better the Next chord that’s why I only run 2 Chord because there are games I’ve one by Chording for Shaman and I’ve also put my Selfless Spirit mainboard as a cordable Target game 1 against boardwipes, I think if I cut chord completely I need to go from Abzan to just GB.
I will take both yours and marcWizard advice into account next time I play UW. I’m so used to just going off with elves and playing my entire hand out even CoCo it Lead by T2 or T3 if I can, but if I know my OP is on uw I should start trying to sandbag some instant speed reaction, or go off and cast lead early but hold the creatures.
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While I will agree that Thought Scour synergizes well with Snapcaster and Reveler I personally feel our deck is not set up best to take full advantage from it. If we compare this to other decks potentially running this card: Grixis/Esper/Sultai all have access to Gurmag Angler and Tasigur, Grixis also has K-Command, Esper has Lingering Souls some lists also pack Think Twice, All of these decks also have access to Liliana, The last Hope. Having these card options are what makes this such a powerful card to run IMO. In our list we are only running most times 2 Snap and 2 Reveler and if we mill those with thought scour we gained no real value. I won't say not to test it I just believe we are not set up to take best advantage.. Could potentially add some Logic Knots if we want to get more GY action.
Brewing and testing are one of the best parts of making our decks, finding better synergy and plays etc. I personally believe that Gitaxian Probe was lack luster, It could of been my list specifically but I never really wanted to draw it.. The knowledge i got from it mostly just allowed me to play around a counter spells to drop geist since he cannot be spot removed but We can also do that just by watching how our opponant taps their mana. I think this banning is good for us, it is forcing everyone to start exploring different options that never got explored because Gitaxian Probe kind of became a "I must have this card because I am tempo" which I do not think was necessarily correct
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A card that wasn't mentioned above that we could potentially take advantage of is Noxious Revival, We can get back creatures, bolts, helix, counters, snapcaster etc.. I think this card would be worth testing, an exact number of how many I do not know. Late game delver draw with this after puts an instant/sorcery on top so we can flip delver guaranteed
Come to think of it, Deaths Shadow and Kiln Fiend might just start running the Revivals as well.
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Welcome to the topic Crssherman1990! I personally believe that Young.P fits more into the tempo/control version rather then the Aggro/Tempo. I was running her for a bit there in my list before I did a complete overhaul of my deck list, she is nothing to laugh at, her sticking can save your life or end our opponents.
The reason I do not find her to be in the more aggro version of he deck is that she is a T2, she doesn't impact the game state immediately and very rarely the following turn as you probably got to cast maybe 1 phyrexian spell with her if you cast her T2. As a tempo play she is great because she allows for you to go wide with having blockers or generate enough tokens that you can swing with creatures weather they get blocked or not. In the aggro builds you really want to bring life totals down close enough that bolt or bolt-snap-bolt can win it in the mid game when hey have stabilized (unless your running mentor or Geist).
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I faced a handful of different decks and I cannot remember all the details so i do not have alot of write up about each match specifically but i will post the few things i do remember (it was a long night playing from 5:30 to Midnight). Decks i faced were: Abzan, Esper Processors, UB Faeries, Bant Eldrazi, Infect, Dredge.
Abzan 2-1: Game 1 was fairly straight forward for Abzan, he would use some sort of THoughtsieze on T1 making me discard but that just wasnt enough, he curved great with T1 Discard into Bob/Goyf/Ooze etc however i kept his board clear. Once I landed Geist i got a shot in and he dropped Seige Rhino, I slapped Steel of the Godhead on Geist the following turn and he couldn't keep up.
Game 2: I just drew everything to late, i had land, i had removal but i didn't draw my first Delver until T5, by this point it was long over due, i put up a fight and got him down to 5or6 still but he eventually just out paced me
Game 3: I just controlled this game from the start, I bolted his creatures and Remand / Snap remanded his spells. I again won this match with an enchanted Geist.
Esper Processors 0-3: Again i just cannot win this match up.. I did make 1 mistake which was that i dropped Elspeth with Geist on board trying to bait out a counter or spell queller so i could use my enchantment the next turn but he didn't have a countersepll had I dropped the enchantment instead i would of won. one game was just terrible though, i kept a very poor hand (bad mistake) to which i had 1 land and kept drawing spells i couldnt cast, ended up with 2 Geist in hand and had to discard so i discarded a geist... He hit me with Surgical extraction for that blunder. Another game he had ashiok out and kept exiling my stuff, eventually exiled both my snaps, 1 delver, 1 geist and 1 angel. Snaps allowed him to re-path my non geist creatures and I just couldn't get through.
UB Faeries 3-0: We played a 3rd game while waiting for matches to finish.
Game 1: I got my spells out quickly knowing i needed to get under his counter faeries and was able to out pace him with Delver and Geist.
Game 2: he got the point where he had to just block with bitterblossom faeries, I had Delver, Angel and Geist all on board, kept swinging in with my Angel and Delver forcing him to block.. every other creature he played either was on blocking duty or got bolted/helixed
Game 3: He got land screwed, ended up with only 2 Bitterblossoms on board ( I was going to cryptic his the turn before but i allowed the second to land) I essentially just kept swinging with Angel again and let Bitter Blossom kill him.
Infect 2-1: Game 1: His dropped elf T1 to which i bolted immediately, Hirearch got Helixed and i landed Delver and Geist. I unfortunatley just got beat down by a Nexus in the end as i forgot it had flying and left Geist back on blocking duty..
Game 2: Sideboarded (IN: 2x Negate, 1 Spell Pierce, 1 Dispel, 2 Surgical Extraction 1 Blessed Alliance) This was his nightmare, my opening hand consisted of 2x Path, 2x Bolt, 1 Spell Pierce, 2x Land. Every creature he played died, he even probed me to see the spells and try and play around it by forcign me to play certain spells... it didn't matter as i drew into a Cryptic and countered a Hirearch and bounced his Nexus after he played a land for turn.
Game 3: Similart to Game 2, just removed everything he had except i had 2 flipped delvers by T3
Bant Eldrazi 2-0: I do not remember this one sorry guys.. what i do recall is he got no Thougt-Knot Seer, i pathed every threat and Geist with Steel won the game. I did make 1 mistake though in forgetting that Drowner of hope can tap my creatures so i tapped out for Elspeth to make Gesit big to deal the last 12 points of damage (geist and delver on board) but he tapped down my delver.. I should of pathed Drowner instead of Elspeth.
Dredge 1-2: Game 1: I maintained control, bolting, pathing, helixing everything i could outside of Nacromebas, this kept me with enough life (thank you helix) and by time i dropped Godhead on Geist it was over, i gained ot much life per 2
Game 2/3: these were almost Identical, he exploded early and i drew little removal. I did deal with a couple of his Prized Amalgams and got my enchanted Geist again but it was to late.
I did face the Esper Processors deck again but vs someone who doesn't know hwo to use it properly so i ended up stomping him so i don't count this match same goes with the matches we had intermitent of other games finishing. All in All 4-2 for the night
I am happy with the Enchantment and never found that only 25 spells hurt my Delver.. the times when he didnt flip early i drew creature land or elspeth so even if those had been Snags he still wouldn't have flipped. It is a very underplayed card in modern but i found it a very good way of getting in extra damage unblocked instead of a 1 time use with the others... Also 4 life per turn is nothing to laugh at. The rest of the deck remained as smooth as it was before, Delver is still the best T1 play (outside of bolting infect creatures) and Resto Angel makes for a big threat. I am happy with where my deck is now until WoTC decides to release some better counter magic, or 1cmc spells etc that fit my deck.
1 Card that has come up in speculation thought is my Gitaxian Probes. I used them in the games but the information is less valuable i think with Geist in play.. If i face something with Flash or an Aether vial its worth knowing their hand in case they flash in to block but once the enchantments lands you cannot block anymore. I currently do not have plans of removing this card as it is still very strong and makes for sideboard fodder but out of the entire deck this would be the card I say is the least effective and would consider replacing for something better or more control if i need to (i actually sided all of these out against Infect)
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I am with you on Geist here Mazereon, I got into Modern to play Geist, I wanted to build the perfect deck for Geist which is why my list has deviated from where it was by adding in Resto angel etc to abuse Geist more. I do however disagree that against creature heavy decks he isn't that good. As Jeskai we run (in my opinion) the best, most versatile removal spells out there, and we run so many of them. I've said it before that creatures are useless against us, this is why Negate is such a good counter for decks like ours as we don't care as much for creatures. There ar every few games where my opponent can keep 1 creature on board let alone try and block Geist... and then when they do Resto saves him but thats my list specific. On top of this the title of our deck is Tempo, and the burn spells that we use for not only removal but for that reach and Geist is that reach/tempo as well. Even without running 4 geist like my list where I slap another down, to suicide in and get that 4 angel damage through and then hit you with burn still kills quickly. We can be a burn deck if we need to, we can be the aggressor if we need to and we can win the counter wars. Take for example you do not draw Delver or a Swiftspear first 3 turns but instead have Bolt/Helix/Boros Chamrm, by turn 3 alone you can easily get the opponent with over half their life, T1 Bolt, T2 Bolt, Helix, T3 Geist, T4 Attack, Boros Charm, Bolt/Helix.. this path here is an easy 20 damage and Geist himself doesn't need to connect. People do not fear Geist, they fear his angel.
But thats just me
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2-1 vs Jund: Every game started the same, he would thoughtsieze or inquisition me and he always took away my Geist he had a huge fear of him. In every game i faced against 3 Liliana's, dealing with them is super easy, i either killed her with a Bolt after allowing her to make me Sac a geist (i had multiples), another I killed with my flipped Delver and Snapcaster on board (he didnt want to make me Sac knowing i would just sac Snap), and the other i flashed in Resto angel EoT and killed her next turn. The 1 game i lost was a mistake on my part, i thought the board was clear and did not see the raging ravine on the board to which he blocked geist and double bolted my angel, i lost to the ravine after since i only drew lands.
1-2 vs Eldrazi Flash?: This is a home brew so without explaining the entire deck my loses were because Eldrazi Displacer either kept Delver un flipped or removed my geist angel so I couldn't attack, I couldn't counter a whole lot as he is running Aether Vials and due to this trying to cast removal while he has 3 mana and 3 Aether Vials with 3 charge counters on them and Spell Queller in deck was very challenging. Had i drawn 1 of my Cryptic Commands I could of won these matches but i never saw either of them so i folded to the massive power on board.
2-0 vs Grixis Control: MB this deck does not have ways of dealing with Geist and it shows because once i landed Geist he knew he had a couple turns to draw Engineered Explosives and hope I do not have another one. These games all played out the same riding on the back of Geist and i believe both ended with bolt or Helix up top for the reach.
2-1 vs Infect: I due to all my removal in my list this MU is fairly easy, I am almost garunteed to have 1-2 removal in my opening hand and i have found that holding back delver to go for T1 bolt, T2 Bolt/HJelix/Path and then landing a Geist or Delver T3 sets Infect back so much. The only card harder to player around is Inkmoth Nexus as this players infect deck is alot about protection so it has less T2 kills which means it can hold out for a bit and just win via protecting Nexus so it is something I have to play around. the second game that I wont against him though was due to triple flipped delver... altho I didn't flip them until T5 when all 3 were on board hahah
2-1 vs Infect: We played again to end the night, the games went fairly similar, my saving grace this time around was drawing Vapor Snag to Snag the nexus, and then 2 turns later Snap snag the nexus, as well as blocking with flipped Delvers against the Nexus... that card is difficult to beat.. Even EoT due to his deck design trying to Bolt, Helix, Path etc is hard as he usually had 2+ forms of protection in hand.
All in all i felt the deck was smooth, I always had a delver, and I always had a Geist and Restoration angel proved to be a large threat despite people not fearing her since she isnt hexproof. I got to use her to save Geists, kill Liliana's, flicker a snapcaster for an additional flashbacked bolt, all around she was just strong. Elspeth did her thing again, our Jund player had never seen her and so when i was making Resto Angel +3/+3 after he removed Her with removal he didnt realize she gave flying, so he left blockers back for my flashed in snapcaster mage who flew over top. I like the tempo/threat balance of having Delver T1, counter/removal T2 and Geist T3 if i do not need to hold back, it keeps the opponents off their toes. Running the 4-of for each burn spells provided a huge amount of consistency to my Delver flips and my threats, opponents could not keep any creatures on board (excluding the Eldrazi FLash deck) and it doubling up as burn to the top is great. Probes are still worth it, facing against Grixis Control or Infect being able to see what i am working with helps alot in how i decide to turn the corner or play out the game, makes for much safer plays. Also with running 4-of Helix i can afford to be a bit more aggressive with my shock lands and probes (5 shocks and 3 probes) as i can handle the life loss, but once i had 1 of each shock land i am also safe to start getting some basics to. Chandra, Torch of Defiance i still really like her but my thought were right, I saw her in some opening hands which I mulligand away but i would gladly keep Elspeth in my opener, and the one game i did draw her (last infect game) I didnt want to cast her as i needed blockers for his 2 elf's so i cast Geist and flashed in Snap/Bolt on his turn.
I like how the deck ran it is where i want to be, Cryptic is super easy even with 19 lands and the UUU is no problem since all but 3 of my 19 lands produce it. I think the Chandra needs to go but I am not sure for what at this point. Our host in my Meta was telling me I should put back in 2x Steel of the Godhead as it means i win for sure when geist is on board, or Postboard it can hit a Spellqueller, It can even hit the resto angel just for lifelink. Other options would be to add in 1 more Angel, or a Snap (if i bite the bullet).. another option i heard was to change it a bit further and run 4-of Delver, Geist, Snap and 3 Resto, to do this though i would need to Drop Chandra and 2 other spells.. which would most likely end up being the Vapor Snags.
Anyone got some suggestions for replacing Chandra? the godhead enchantment is super fun to play on a geist but not sure.
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So far without testing the list there are 2 cards i have thought might be worth switching to something else Chandra, Torch of Defiance and 1 Gitaxian Probe. Without testing it is hard to know if the 3rd probe is required, I like it for the cantrip obviously but it also gives alot of valuable information to make sure I can turn the corner with geist to attack or even cast him if i am worried about counter spells or board wipes. Chandra i stated my opinions above, I love her as a card she is great and has been awesome in the deck as it is but with changing the list how I am right now it is hard to know if she will fit. If i pull these 2 i could put in some combination of Boros Charm or Slip Through Space in their place, or if i ever decide to bite the bullet potentially 1 or 2 more Snapcasters but we will see with that haha. As for the Lightning Helix, i know alot of people here are not fans of running 4 copies, and i see where everyone is coming from.. Personally though i had the most fun with my deck when it had 4 bolt and 4 helix, the life gain is nothing to laugh at and it is just that much more removal. The above list currently has 14 for sure removal spells, 8 can be sent up top, Snap makes it so i have another 2 potential spells, plus Chandra can be a removal spell if needed, and Cryptic can bounce a scary creature if i need it to. I like having so much removal.
Creature removal you are correct we have so much which is why i feel like aside from remand (the cantrip makes me biased) the best counter spells for us are Negate or Spell Pierce since i know personally i am never afraid of the creature on the other side with the exception of Bogles but thats what the sideboard is for. When it comes to the mentor he is a card i think is fairly difficult to work with (just my opinion) on his own he is amazing and can take over the game as even creating 2 tokens and then getting 2 prowess triggers on the turn they can attack is 10 damage (plus if those triggers are bolts it is GG) but you need the right spell package to work with him so he can be a bit more of a challenge to operate. With your list curd I think Mentor could work still on your top end.. I do like the 3rd snapcaster but I think he could still work for you.. Saheeli Rai copying a Mentor sounds like Gravy.
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I originally discounrd the Curious Homunculus // Voracious Reader because alot of our spells have not included a colorless mana source to them for us to really take affect of all of what he brings to the table, however at the moment since i have not found a creature package i truly like I think it is high time i get some testing with him in.. so lets see, i know some spells will need to change in my MB to utilize him the best and i wonder, would homunculus allow us to play Cryptic Command easier? I know it is still UUU but i know with my deck i personally have 8 available blue sources so maybe this is an option? anyways how does this look for testing purposes.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Curious Homunculus
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Bedlam Reveler
Instant
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
2 Lightning Helix
2 Cryptic Command
2 Electrolyze
4 Remand
4 Serum Visions
3 Gitaxian Probe
Planeswalker
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Land
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Spirebluff Canal
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
The Cryptics may be better Sideboard to replace Planeswalkers if needed instead of MB. Also with Homunculus we can then use Unsubstantiate as a 1CMC spell instead of Vapor Snag so this is another option MB to replace Snag instead of the Cryptics. Let me know what you all think, I am actually wanting to test this creature now.