Thanks Hunter44. I wish I see your post earlier. I tested Rancor today and I feel exactly the same way as you. \
I have replaced my Domri Rade with Triumph of Ferocity. And I am glad I made that change. It is so much better in the control MU.
I don't really like Domri Rade, against Naya Midrange, they usually have them down a turn earlier than us. Against Jund Midrange, they have tons of answer for it. And against faster aggro deck, it is a 3cc removal spell.
I use Domri Rade vs Esper Control (Draw tech) and Red-based aggro and blitz, Aside from the extra removal, its saves some of my life points as most of the players I've had games with tend to kill Domri Asap by combat if they didnt have searing spear.
How do you guys feel about Rise from the Grave as SB tech against Reanimator? I read it somewhere on SCG and thought it was an interesting idea.
Its good vs reanimator yeah, but we are kind of looking for a sideboard material that works well with some decks otherwise, for example, deathrite shaman is not only good vs reanimator, but with UWR Flash as well.
It was 84 people, top 8, 1st place was a Black Lotus.
Round 1 vs. Junk Reanimator 2-0
Very straightforward match. I beat him both games by turn 6. Killed any mana dorks, and he had mana issues both games. Not great draws for me, but consistent.
Round 2 vs. Naya Blitz 1-2
Each game was decided by who had the worse mana. Game 3, I have 2 Stomping Ground, take him to 1 life by turn 6. Cards in hand: 2 Falkenrath Aristocrat, 1 Dreadbore, 1 Dreg Mangler. If I hit a single land with Black, I win. 10 turns, not a single land. He eventually gets enough of a board to win.
Round 3 vs. Aristocrats 0-2
I kept a bad hand game 1, not enough juice, he established his board. Game 2, I never see red mana. 5 lands, no red. From here on out I will aggressively mulligan.
Round 4 vs. RG Aggro 2-0
Despite good starts for him, I just curve out really well. I kept RGB mana each game.
Round 5 vs. RG Aggro 0-2
Game 1, I have him dead on board, but in order to setup my board I had taken 6 damage from shock lands. I am at 3, he top decks Searing Spear. Game 2, he has all red mana and nothing on the board but Boros Reckoner. I did get greedy and wasted removal too early. I had enough blockers to force him to block against me. However, he top decks Burning-Tree Emissary, allowing him to play the only blocker that would matter, Ghor-Clan Rampager. Instead of dead next turn as I run over Reckoner with blood rush on Flinthoof Boar, he then top decks Hellrider for game.
Round 6 vs. Naya Aggro 2-0
See rounds 1 and 4.
Round 7 vs. Boros Aggro 2-0
See rounds 1, 4, 6.
The only round I feel like I genuinely deserved to lose because of bad keeps/misplays was #3 vs Aristocrats, though game 2 of Round 5 I wasn't judicious with my removal. Against more aggressive decks, I realize we have to save our removal for their serious creatures, and instead block their little guys, since ours get larger, faster.
Except for the mana hiccups, which probably could have been avoided if I had mulliganed correctly, the deck was great. A good learning experience.
I never got to use Appetite for Brains, Olivia Voldaren or Domri Rade, but I seemingly played aggro pretty much all day. I'm not sure I like Olivia that much when I did bring her in. Because of all of the aggro, Wolfir Silverheart would have been better. Deathrite Shaman did very little, and was sided out every game except in the first round.
I also did nothing with Thundermaw Hellkite, but then again, I didn't face much mid-range. The games I lost, I could not have cast it anyway.
My removal suite was pretty good. I was very happy with 2 UP, 1 AD, and 2 Spear.
All three people I lost to placed higher than I did in the 4-3, except one guy who went 5-2.
I think I might change-up the side-board to improve my aggro match, but I am not sure what. Replace Olivia Voldaren with Wolfir Silverheart or Rakdos Cackler? Buffer the high-end or the low end? I am thinking against faster aggro decks, we want removal and things that pair and make walls and inevitability. I am also switching Kessig to side and Dragonskull Summit to main. 23 lands was generally awesome.
Good wins pal. Your list is just right except that you may want to cut off hellrider and go low curve. Too bad for the draws you had in your losses.. that kind of luck is worse in MTGO..
Had a similar experience with B/W Aristocrat. Once they have that board established and can sac in response to anything you do. It's everytime you swing regardless of what happens they gain life and you lose life. Need lots of removal and mull aggressively until you see it. Naya Blitz needs Golgari Charm preferably to get taken offline. I dorked around with Volcanic strength but Naya swings as much as you do so its not like they care.
I posted earlier about Volcanic strength in aristocrats.. You'll see potential.. Vs Aggro you can just side in more removal. I also quite using Volanic strength vs aggro and instead Im putting it in against aristocrats.
I've been testing and tuning for WCQ. Against JunkRites, Lingering Souls has been giving me a lot of problem.
Golgari charm. Works wonders. -1-1 to tokens not to mention its main role is vs supreme verdict, Boros reckoner and bonfire of the damned. Destroying Assemble the legiona and other enchantments are just a bonus.
Skullcrack is a staple for me, now that there's someone who made a success using Turbofog Deck it might get some fans and create the deck as well so Skullcrack still is useful.
I like your Ultimate price main deck. Remove the 1 searing spear in the sb and put a single Ground seal. It works vs any Snapcaster Mage deck and renimator plus its card advantage. You dont need 4 spears imho.
Going off of what I was saying in my last post I think I want to try this. It's a bit like the greedy stuff I was talking about in the last thread but I think in this format it's still reasonable. I was having a ton of trouble with Flash before but Deathrite Shaman really did numbers there I didn't expect. It's pretty much good enough to main deck. I was running 3 but there were too many times it didn't do anything early. It was while playing it I realized how much I really wanted an arbor elf for acceleration. I was trying all these low curve Experiment One things but they could get just stumped. The risk of a greedy list is not curving out mind you when someone kills your acceleration. Stilll the pay off makes the reanimator matchup much better. I was worried Gyre Sage would be a bit out of place with Arbor Elf hands but often enough.. you can play Gyre Sage on T3. You go Arbor Elf.. T2.. Domri or Dreg Mangler. T3 Sage + Boar etc.. T4 Hellkite.. it means that Sage is more of a beater than anything but that's ok since it rounds out when you don't have Arbor Elf hands.
The final bit was watching Kibler play a Green-Red deck with 22 lands and 6 5 drops sometimes siding into 7-8 5 drops on SCG today. This is a greedy format. I understand this leads to some more mulligans but I'm used to that style of deck. I'm going to give this list a try:
Kibler is such a midrange aggro Gyre sage fan even his Naya decks are so full of it. If you have the necessary acceleration it wouldnt hurt much. Try it and tell us how it goes.
Is Gyre Sage any good? You will need to put a counter on it to activate his mana producing ability. It means he won't be ramping you the following turn.
Actually the mana producing ability is just a great bonus...1/2 evolve for a 2cmc creature is great, many people can't see it from the start but once youre playing it you'll see its power. Once it arrives to 4/5 its already a threat. Overall its a great card for 1G.
Unfortunately, I don't have enough time to test it for that two match up before WCQ. Can anyone with experience with Volcanic Strength share their opinion? Thanks in advance.
Before Im using volcanic strength vs red based aggro but sometimes it failed to do its job to win the race. So I decided to stop using it and just put in removals instead.. Where this card really showed its potential is the aristocrats. A boar/flunkie with Volcanic strength is almost unstoppable in this matchup. The removal set of usual aristocrat decks are is too low for it to be drawn, not to mention it will hurt them if they used Orzhov Charm. Volcanic strength is good against UWR flash sometimes since that deck is pretty slow in spending/abusing control elements unlike Esper. You may have chances that there's no answer..
Anyway best time to use VolcanicS is when opponent is tapped out, one mana left, or forcing them to bring out their removals to a creature thats likely to die anyway like BTE.;)
I really like some ideas from the deck at SCGO. I think I would prefer 4 Aristocrat to 1 Hellrider, I would think this allows more trouble for our opponent. Which do yall prefer?
It depends on the matchup, but I prefer Falkenrath more. Flying is good as always in the current meta.
I wonder if it gets to a point it's hedging too much especially with more cards in the board. But I definitely see how Deathrite is good enough to main deck. Appetite is more interesting.
This looks like the build I posted before except for the deathrites in main. Hellrider's good in resilient buddies like Experiment One and Geist, fully knew the synergy during tests. It is seldom that Hellriders dropping in and attacking alone. His choice of maindeck Appetite and Deathrites was designed probably because of the high reanimator meta in Orlando.
I tend to agree. I don't like all the Hellriders with the potential to be blocked, but I see the incentive since it is capable of the same sort of swinging damage that Thundermaw can. I think that deck might have been too heavy on the answers. I mean Deathrite is good, but won't let you win through a bunch of hard cast Thragtusks etc. Similarly Appetite only deals with threat light hands.
What always catches my attention are the pure GR decks that do good. More often than not adding black comes at minimal cost. Arlie Silver's list is incredibly greedy but it definitely has me thinking. As long as the go big decks aren't playing a ton of red or have to focus elsewhere some of the aggressive cards have the potential to really race. I wouldn't play 19 land deck like that but I wonder if there are other reasonable ways to approach the early curve of Jund Aggro. As gimmicky as it is I really want to try Firefist Striker with threaten effects at the top of the curve supported by Abrupt Decay. If a decks plan is just to put a Reckoner/Centaur Healer/Thragtusk in your way there isn't much way for them to feasibly stabilize with bodies. I find it interesting when a deck that aggro still opts for Domri main. I wonder how much range can be given to a deck like that while keeping that amount of pressure. I mean Hellrider looks a lot better when you go Experiment, Burning-Tree, Firefist, Dreg Mangler, Hellrider. That's a lot of cards but there are quite a few combinations like that.
Its hard to mix and it gets inconsistent.. so for me I categorized these as 2 setup types, the BTE-Flunkies setup and the Hellrider-Geist setup.
Its really weird to log in and see that gone. Mostly because it kinda highlights what a big part of my daily routine mtgsalvation (primarily the standard competitive) has become.
Me too
but I still hope its just an April Fools Joke by MTGsalv.
Came in 2nd with another 3-1 at Thursday Night Magic. Played the list I posted on the last page. Opted out of the Silverheart and kept the 4th Thundermaw. The list did it's job. I beat UB Delver, The Aristocrats, and UWR, and lost to BGW Zombies. The Zombie list had too much incremental damage and removal and I couldn't quite race game 3. It was basically the Aristocrats deck without Falkenrath but with Geralf's Messager, and Gravecrawler instead. The green I guess was for sideboard options/abrupt decays. I tried to get the Deathrite online but it never stuck. I would have just loved a Pillar any of the games. Geralf Messenger sacs to Cartel Aristocrat were tricky and he had Blood Artist too with Lingering Souls. Without lifegain it was pretty hard to race.
But on the positive side my UWR matchup was much better with Deathrite. I lost game 1(2 Lands for 6 turns, and drew all my Flinthoof Boars and ended up walking into Overloaded Mortars), and went on to win game 2 and 3. The 2nd game was grueling where I slowly ground down his life and resources. The 3rd game he Augured into Supreme Verdict on turn 4 and I had a Slaughter games in hand(he had 3 in the deck), which allowed my onboard Deathrite and Vampire Nighthawk to push him in a range where back to back Falkenraths(and Discard Ghor Clan) won the game. Domri was excellent both games 2 and 3. Moving to side in more creatures definitely paid off in the sideboard plan. Deathrite was absolutely the right choice.
The biggest thing that has struck me playing the deck is that it has been pretty consistent and powerful. Like I lost every die roll yesterday and it didn't really matter. I have moneyed the last 4 weeks in a row 1st, 2nd, 1st, and 2nd. The funny thing is I haven't nut drawed with multiple Burning Tree, Boar in maybe more than 1 or 2 of those games (17 rounds) Or even Gyre Sage, Burning Tree, Falkenrath. Yet I've continued to win. Someone laughed when my T2 was Burning Tree pass one game. And it happens a lot more than I'd like I suppose but ultimately it doesn't matter. Mid game I draw a Burning Tree or get it off Domri, and suddenly go Burning-Tree Falkenrath, or Burning-Tree Domri and it can drastically change board state around. The deck has given me a lot of play which I'm not used to in such an aggressive strategy. It's not just the midrange go big options, but the range that Domri adds and access to the best removal/answers in standard lets the deck play any game from like Midrange Jund removal game or Kibler Ooze board attrition game on top of getting those aggro endless haster draws. I like the fact that the cards can be used in so many ways.
Glad to hear you're doing pretty good in your brew pal, I'm also trying to squeeze in desecration demon but I havent really played it that well. Anyway keep up the good work and still consider plans vs Junk reanimator which seems to be getting a lot of fuzz lately. During the video discussions of top players in SCG all they say is reanimator is the deck to beat right now, speaking of that they also mentioned Ground Seal is a good sb card to play right now you may want to try it for better results in your deck.
Looking at the Nicholas Werner list which I will be playing next week after all the stuff I ordered for it arrives, I wonder if Tragic slip would be better than the Ultimate Price in the deck and SB? Anyone have any feedback on that?
If reanimator's a big problem yeah, ultimate price kills almost all threats, instant speed. Restoration angel, angel of serenity, craterhoof behemoth, thragtusk and tokens, somberwalds,..other matchups it can kill are hellkites and desecration demons. Better to use it both though, because tragic slip is the sole card I can think of to dispose Obzedat. DevourFlesh/Tribute to hunger isnt much effective anymore due to all those annoying tokens always supporting Obzedat sideboard strategies against Jund Aggro.
Thanks for the inputs guys but it seems I need to have 4 Crytborn Horrors temporarily to test it out.
Anyway I've been reading the top player's articles in SCG and still, reanimator is the deck to beat. They've been also tweaking a bant hexproof/aggro against it, and they also tweak their own reanimators to beat other reanimators..
As for me my take on it will be still considering a haste-destroy strategy. I want to have a lower curve though so Im on tweaking stage.
Anyway I'm still playing the conventional Jund Aggro sometimes, I have attached something fun to see, I surely know you've got turns like this as well
Update: Both golgari charm and rakdos charm works vs reanimator, with them playing so much dorks, golgari charm sweeps them off.
Update 2: Golgari charm can also surprise reckoners in aristocrat decks if their purpose is to let his reckoner die to kill another creature of yours, when his ability is on stack targeting your another creature, cast golgari charm for regen. He traded off 2 cards but at least you saved one of your creatures. And not only that its a sweeper against their lingering souls tokens.
As for lands since you are at 24 I was thinking: 4 Overgrown Tomb, 4 Stomping Ground, 4 Blood Crypt, 4 Woodland Cemetary, 3 Rootbound Crag, 3 Dragonskull and 1 KWR. This should hopefully give enough GG for t2 geist.
Thanks! Wonderful, trying it out. A must need for turn 2 geist
@Hunter44
I've been doing a lot of play testing vs. Junk Reanimator, the newer builds. I find we can run under them frequently game 1. The real issue is surviving the next two games.
Mr. Negative says,
I was less than excited by Skullcrack. Too often, it just wasn't that great.
I have also replaced Hellrider with Cryptborn Horror. I have found it far more reliable to get to the field turn 3 after I swing, and the worst I have had it do is come in as another 3/3, with trample. That was only against much faster decks than Reanimator.
I'm still fond of Wolfir Silverheart. He soaks up a lot of damage and punishes them for not having other things to do.
I don't like DRS instead of Cackler. It helps vs. Reanimator games 2 and 3, but it hurts us game 1 vs. every other deck and 2-of is only so-so Game 1.
But Mr. Positive replies,
I can see upping the land count by at least 1, though if you are going 4 Hellrider, 2 Thundermaw Hellkite, I can see why you want 24, but those 6 creatures seem greedy to me because that means that we have 8 4cmc and 2 5cmc creatures out of 28. That is going to seriously hurt our early explosiveness.
I also like Tragic Slip in this meta, even at the expense of Dreadbore main. -1/-1 is good right now and -13/-13 is great.
I have more testing to do, but I'm trying to keep the speed, and the flexibility, without over-compensating for Reanimator.
I see, well based from my testing it didnt hurt much but you are right, maybe Ill remove 2 hellriders for greed reasons. I still need hellkite =)
Please tell me how you use cryptborn horror effectively. I am curious although its cute to think that itll drop a 5/5 most of the time based from your list
Heres a weird question- how many creatures do you have in your graveyard by turn 5? Sweet new spoiler on the Magic Show on youtube came out-
Shadowborn Demon - 3BB
Flying
When ~ enters the battlefield, destroy target non-Demon creature.
When ~ enters the battlefield, sacrifice it unless you have 6 creatures in your graveyard.
5/6
It looks really good, but his drawback might actually be a drawback.
This may become a dead card if you're against aggro. Not quite sure yet if this can work against decks with heavy removal like Jund Midrange =)
Vs Naya humans and aristocrats, it seems to work well. Remember Naya humans have overflowing creatures to attack and block when needed, so an unblockable threat helps Make sure you equip it to a 3/3 though to make it 5/5. Just make sure you're not prone to searing spear upon casting.;)
Demon is one of the weaker creatures in my list (although it does a lot of good work and can win games almost single handedly). I can't picture playing more than a couple. The key for it is it costs 4 where everything else like that costs 5. I'd play more Silverhearts/Thundermaws if I could over it they are just too expensive and this sort of frees me from playing more removal outside of Domri.
He makes it heavier due to the BB though, youd be running max Crypts and summits here I presume. I'm just worried you might have a problem with BBs, RRs and GGs on your curve sometimes.
Small ca$h tournament today, 8 people, but half of them are quality players. Went 2-0, draw into top 4, 1-0 into top 2 and split. As always, the deck was pretty awesome. I could go through the rounds, but they were mostly not interesting. I'll note the things that were.
Vs Naya Midrange 2-1
Deck did what it is supposed to do. I did finish a game with Cryptborn Horror. I wondered if this card was going to be gimmicky or win-more as opposed to Hellrider, but against the mid-range decks it really allows you to seal game 1 if you get anywhere from 6-10 damage in turn 3, and then drop CH means I could care less about your Thragtusk. Against Naya Blitz, it gave me a turn 3 creature that ate Champions of the Parish for lunch and forced them onto the defensive (side game testing vs. a Naya Blitz.)
Well your last post hit pretty much all of the main strategies I had questions about. Bant, Aristocrats, and RDW are the only other decks that come to mind atm.
I'm more interested in what cards are best to remove in these match ups than I am in what goes in. For example, taking out cacklers for Duress because t1 Duress is better than t1 cacklers and Duress after t4 is still relevant, or taking out Dreg manglers for the Nighthawks because lifelink + deathtouch are more important than a 3/3 hastey.
Please observe your meta what are the most dominating decks though so you can create your good SB. Not all answers I suggested can be squeezed to a 15-card board so kindly bear in mind I am just giving out answers for you =)
Bant Wolf Run or Prime Speaker Bant? Or Auras? Well anyway maybe you are talking about wolf run in general. In these matchups immediately remove creatures with 2 power like cacklers, BTEs and other (except geist, they're tricky and can work and will be happy if azorious charmed) since Augur of Bolas and Centaur healer mostly blocks the way. For me Im removing searing spears and replace them with Skullcrack, Golgari Charm(for supreme verdict and detention spheres), and Slaughter Games(targeting Sphinx's revelation) . You may want to have 2 dreadbores as well since most probably they will side in some planeswalkers like Garruk and a biggie like Gisela/Aurelia. Dont remove Abrupt decays. Dont be afraid of thragtusk,instead save your mana for upcoming Restoration Angels and focus on using skullcrack well. Focus your removals on Restoration Angels and let your falkenraths/flyers finish the game.
Aristocrats - Basically, we are faster than Aristocrats but they can block and attack on different angles which makes them powerful. Which is why Volcanic strength shines not only on RDW but also on this deck. If you managed to successfully equip this to a creature like mangler or boar, it may become a huge threat automatically unless they wish to take 5 damage from Orzhov charm or force them sacrifice another creature for them to trigger tragic slip. Aristocrats seldom put heavy removal trust me. Olivia is also good and pings alot of tokens, infamys and small parishes,steals falkenrath easier, and a threat flier. Hellkite is also good. We have abrupt decay main so reckoner isnt much a threat not to mention it kills Paladin and Skirsdag, even the 5/5 tokens. Basically more removal will help you win together with volcanic str and olivia just remember to include both dreadbore and tragic slip to that since they usually have Sorin and Obzedat in their sideboard. Side out ghor-clan rampager, since the unbeatable blocks of Falkenrath, skirsdag token, cartel and the killer reckoner will simply weaken Ghor clan's potential. You can also side out a mangler or 2.
RDW - Trust me, racing them is suicide. They will, and always will be, faster. Again, Volcanic strength equipped to a 3/3. Mortars, searing spear will be unusable removal spells after this hits your jackpot. Just put in removals and nighthawks if you have. If your meta is heavy on RDW you can put flames of the firebrand.
Anyway on other news, heads up guys, Reanimator (the behemoth version, not the human) is gaining lot of popularity.
Top players and writers from SCG premium are already calling reanimator the best deck in Standard right now. Here's some inputs from the Innovator, Patrick Chapin:, if youre from Kansas or DC lucky you..
Standard Metagame: March 24, 2013 - see attachment
Standard Metagame: Magic Online - see attachment
* Misc = Wolf Run Bant, Human Reanimator, Mono-Red Aggro, Boros, 4CC, Delver
Tons of stuff to glean here. To start with, just look at the decks that have fallen off the grid in the last two weeks. Wolf Run Bant, Human Reanimator, Mono-Red Aggro, Boros, 4CC, and Delver? Not a one of those decks put someone into the Top 16 of SCG Washington, DC or SCG Kansas City.
Of course, as alluded to earlier, Reanimator has completely dominated over the past two weeks, winning both SCG Opens and giving nine players Top 16 finishes. Once, we get past it, we come to a relatively even tier featuring U/W/R, Esper, Jund, and Naya. While this tier is relatively even averaged out, it is certainly far from stable. Three weeks ago, Jund and U/W/R were the format's top dogs. The following week, they were both completely blanked and Esper and Naya tripled their combined metagame presence. This past weekend, U/W/R rebounded, but Jund not so much, with Esper and Naya still putting up results.
This new breed of Reanimator deck plays a passable aggressive midrange game and is chock full of threats small, medium, and large. While it can apply early pressure, it really just wants to hang out until it builds a game-winning advantage in its graveyard.
Strengths:
Proactive
More powerful than most midrange
Solid B game if graveyards are shut down
Weaknesses:
Lack of interaction - Beyond attacking and blocking, there isn't a lot Reanimator can do to troublesome permanents. There are a few answers in the sideboard, but they get stretched pretty thin.
Graveyard hate - While these Reanimator decks are not slave to the graveyard, graveyard hate still turns them into very mediocre midrange G/W/B decks. Vulnerable to racing - The last time this style of Reanimator was popular, it struggled with fast G/W Human decks. Could those decks possibly make a comeback? What other fast decks can race it? Thundermaw Hellkite is definitely annoying.
So there you have it. Other than that, analysts are saying that Jund, Esper, Naya, And UWR Flash(without reckoner) will be the top seeing lists during the upcoming weeks aside from the top performing reanimator (NOT THE HUMAN VERSION)
My proactive game plan is basically race to finish game 1, and depending on the matchup I will use my sideboard cards which fits for the usual popular decks. Can't wait to play a Standard daily this week
This is exactly what I was asking for . Would you mind writing your SB strategy for other popular archetypes as well? I would love to hear them and they would be great material for the eventual primer. Plus this could open up some more discussion about SB choices.
May I kindly ask which archetype would you like hearing opinion for? But to answer you for now, skullcrack is an SB staple for me, basically vs anything lifegain mainly thragtusk. Domri rade Vs Esper Control, Volcanic Str Vs Red based aggro and now I am thinking DRS will be a staple for me right now, until reanimator gains less popularity
I won another local 4 round tournament with my list. 3rd time in 4 weeks(not that the competition is super heavy). I've got that metagame dialed in that it's all Aggro, Jund, UWR. The control players sort of got chased out by the aggro and no one is playing Reanimator really locally. I had a real hard time with UWR as usual. I mean sometimes you can't help with they keep a mull to 6 that is 2 lands, 3 Boros Reckoner, Resto Angel, and draw Izzet Charm, Land, Land. I actually dealt with the first 2 Reckoners, but Resto saved the 3rd one, and while I put up quite a fight with Domri I ended up losing that game. I got to play Naya Blitz which was easier postboard than I expected given how much removal is in my board. The tournament did show me a few things. Which may or may not be relevant to you guys.
1. Gyre Sage while one of my favorite cards is only particularly good against Slow Aggro(like Mono Red, Jund Aggro, Saito Naya, GR Sage) and against Midrange(Jund, PS Bant, Naya, Reanimator). It is the mirror breaker for me. It is a great game one proactive plan that is decent across the board. It is not particularly good against fast aggro like Blitz, against Azorious Charm decks especially ones with clocks like UWR. It's passable against control. Since basically it's worst in my worst matchups being able to swap all 4 out is very beneficial to boarding. I was swapping out Burning-Trees before in some matchups which is incorrect given their bodies have multiple uses especially making Falkenrath good.
2. If you are going to use Domri as your CA engine you have to make sure to get value out of it. The removal isn't powerful enough in the format generally that seeing it on top and getting it next turn is better than just drawing something (except maybe planning for Bonfire). I was siding in too much removal even being aware of the balance. For that reason Cards like Deathrite Shaman, and Vampire Nighthawk definitely get the nod. Even if they eat a burn as long as you draw with Domri it isn't costing a card. I had supplementary card advantage before but that was wrong. You lose pretty much all the advantage any time Domri reveals an Underworld Connection or Triumph of Ferocity. This rule extends to utility cards like the charms (Golgari I'm looking at you). Domri wants no more than 10 non-creature spells (including himself). Realistically 8-9 is about ideal.
3. Wolfir Silverheart is a bit better than I gave it credit for with all the haste we run. But sometimes being biggest on board is important. I still generally think Hellkite is better, but Wolfir Silverheart might be better than Hellkite 3 or 4. It stops aggro without Aristocrat/Hellkite dead. And it can bruteforce right through Reckoner. Although at 5 mana only so many creatures like this you can play. Still if you ever get it down then follow up with a Hellkite or Aristocrat it's just huge (this sometimes happens in the Flash matchup if the Azorius Charm the first attacker). However, Olivia I don't get. I tried her again and it always felt living on a prayer. x/4's are still vulnerable so even playing her at 6 is risky. The matchups I see her being good in maybe there are better options or they are already good matchups. Reanimator is the only one that I think maybe you want the role reversal of stealing threats. But if you can burn out the dorks, and come in big in the air maybe it isnt needed.
4. Maybe the dynamics are a bit difference in the deck with one drops but Kessig Wolf Run hasn't done nearly as much for me as consistently hitting my colors and being able to play double black spells. I guess others agree in cutting the extra Kessig out of their board looking at the recent placing lists, but I think having the extra land in the board and the go big plan might still be worth it. The other land should just be a Dragonskull Summit likely. Extra black for Mangler/Aristocrat/Removal (the deck only plays 12). I've lost games where I didn't have that one black. And the red of course to make sure Hellkite is castable if that is the sideboard plan going forward like expect it to be.
Anyway, take what you will from all that. My game 1 is significantly different than most of yours but our post board games are much closer in many matchups (since I game 1 the go big plan).
Deathrite Shaman as mana ramp is additionally good in the UWR matchup since you can get double utility to bring in your go big plan faster. I found if they spend their early turns burning stuff you still can curve into 5's and what you want in that matchup is threat density. You can't always assume your 2/2's and 3/3's will get there. They have hands that will trump that. That tcg player tournament report had him bringing in Silverheart, but he only ran Cremate, being able to T4 Silverheart (or Thundermaw) might even be that much more impacting.
Anyway what matchups are you guys finding the hardest? I have a suspicion they are a bit different than me even if we share about 60 of the 75 (or they are direct subs dreadbore/victim, Experiment/Sage), so perhaps we can jointly figure out how to shore up our gaps. I suspect I have a better Midrange Jund and Reanimator matchup and possibly Esper Control, but I don't hear you guys complain very much about UWR. Oh and can someone please explain Olivia in the sideboard? Where has it been good for you were something like Hellkite/Silverheart wouldn't be?
When I saw your deck its like the Efro/Saito Naya converted to Jund. You have demanding board presence here. Why not remove Wolfir Silverheart here and just put another hellkite or desecration Demon? Not bad, I would love to try Domri Rade rolling out Desecration Demon for a great fight before declare attackers step lol.
Olivia Voldaren? Well, its good against aggro and other midrange decks as well. And I tell you right now that thragtusk is dominating the standard meta we would love to see more flying creatures dealing hellacious offense such as hellkites, voldarens and falkenraths evading ground threats not to mention Reckoner and early Smiters that stop our boars and manglers from progressing. Its not all the time we have removal every turn. Olivia is also good vs the aristocrats . If you're going to play Olivia in board just think twice if she really helps during game 2 or not. Olivia is useless in Esper Control and UWR mostly when I tested.
So what do we think of Domri in the maindeck? It seemed good but after testing it is a little weak to aggro decks where you are left wishing it was the Dreadbore instead of Domri for their Reckoner.
Actually I tried it but never really fully liked it even if somehow he blends in well.. Majority of Jund aggro game plan is to keep pressure out of the opponent while clearing out any possible threat in the board by our chosen removal spells. Domri rade contributes nothing to that. Although he may seem relevant, its actually more of Naya's needs considering their removal spells are limited and the power cards like loxodon smiter and boros reckoner greatly abuse the -2 ability. For me, he sticks in sideboard, and best card vs esper control.
I've decided to go DRS for now, despite my preference for removing their whole graveyard, because DRS advances our game slightly (only slightly) better.
It also gives us potential extra mana when we need it. I think vs. Junk DRS is the better option, but Rakdos Charm is better vs. Humanimator, since you want to clean out their whole graveyard, not just once card.
Here is a draft of a Primer. Feel free to use and modify if someone wants to really flesh it out more.
Jund Aggro Primer
Jund Aggro is essentially a variation of RG Aggro that takes advantage of Black to be able to play a strong mid-range game, instead of relying on blowing out the whole hand onto the field. RGB allows the deck to play some key cards, most importantly quality removal and three excellent creatures for the mid-game. I’ll name all those once we get into card analysis.
The play style remains fairly linear before siding. The goal is to do a lot of damage quickly. Turn 4/5 wins are not uncommon, though both RG Aggro and Naya Blitz probably get there more consistently. However, once you sideboard the deck can really show its flexibility in dealing with all manner of threats.
Play this deck if...
You like aggro, but...
you are smarter than the average aggro aficionado, and...
you don't want to be another one of the people on the "Oh, mid-range is so good right now" bandwagon, while...
acknowledging that Jund Midrange is a hell of a deck, but...
you are not too proud to admit that aggressive strategies are probably going to trump control strategies in standard for now or...
you just know in your heart that Reanimator is unstable and won't be king of the hill for more than a few weeks, unlike...
Jund Aggro.
Main Deck
Creatures:
CMC 1 Experiment One is a central piece. As in any green-based deck, this card can evolve quickly and not only get up to 4/4, but protect itself from destruction. This is a great turn 1 play.
Rakdos Cackler. 2/2 for R/B in a deck with an RBG mana base and it evolves Experiment One. Need we say more?
CMC2 Burning-Tree Emissary aka Free Bear. By far the most important 2-drop creature in agro everywhere. This card is no small part of the reason that RGx is the aggro sweet spot. There is no feeling like playing out three of these followed by …
Flinthoof Boar aka Pig. 1G, 2/2 that if you have a Mountain out is a 3/3 and if you have three mana open, can drop as a 3/3 Haste. Wow, did I just make Experiment One evolve twice in one turn and swing for 3, with the likelihood of doing 8 or more next turn? “Well, gosh, Gomer, I guess I know now why you play RGx aggro.” “Yup, Andy, nothing like droppin’ me some Free Bears and a Pig!”
Now we get into disputed territory. Mogg Flunkies. 3/3 for 1R is good. It definitely grows Experiment One and it doesn’t die to 2 damage. That’s also good. Good enough reason to play it despite the fact that it can neither attack nor block by itself? Well… so far it has not really been replaced in the winning decks, so it does something right.
Gore-House Chainwalker. 2/1 that really is a 3/2 with Unleash, for 1R. I like it much better because it can attack by itself. Still, has not been proven yet in tournaments. Note: it is Human, which gives it synergy with one of our key finishers, a big plus for me.
Lightning Mauler. 2/1 with a minimal capacity to evolve Experiment One, but it can soulbond for haste to itself and potentially whatever it enters the board with. It is also human. This is my personal favorite if you want to emphasize the early aggressive game.
CMC 3 Dreg Mangler. One of the reasons to like Jund over RG Aggro. 3/3, haste and the Scavenge for 3GB makes a late-game Experiment One a viable finisher. Can you smell the mid-game?
CMC 4 Falkenrath Aristocrat. Oh sweet, undead mama! 4/1, flying, can make herself indestructible and she gets bigger. To play her is to love her. To play against her is to hate her. What more praise could a Magic card need? This card is the core of our mid-game.
Ghor-Clan Rampager. Sure, its a 4/4 with trample, but what it really does is Bloodrush. Oh the sweet rush of blood: +4/+4 and trample for RG. Smells like win.
Hellrider. Used less, by no means a staple of the deck, but it has seen GP greatness. Another card that just finishes games. 2RR is a bit rough on the mana base, but we do what we must. Usually in the deck at the expense of a Mogg Flunkie and a Rakdos Cackler.
Non-Creature Spells
This is one of the places the deck shines. Unlike Naya Blitz and RG Aggro, we have a really good variety of removal.
CMC 1 Tragic Slip. The most common choice and it ignores indestructible and can frequently go nova (-13/-13) because people try to block us. Takes care of that pesky 3/3 token Thragtusk tried to leave after they blocked our Pick or Flunky or Mangler or Chainwalker or Hellrider. Also great for mana dork removal. “YOU SHALL NOT RAMP!!!!”
Pillar of Flame. Less played, but if Zombies or BW Aggro really return, well, this is the go-to choice in the aggro vs. undying aggro match.
CMC 2
Ah, the good stuff! Searing Spear. Do I really need to explain this in a deck that uses red mana?
Abrupt Decay. Uncounterable destruction of any 3cmc or less permanent without indestructible or that doesn’t get Resto-blinked. That means your stupid Centaur Healer (Bant), your whole stupid deck (Naya Blitz), most of your stupid deck (RG Aggro and mirror), your Blind Obedience (Control), and so on and so on. Delicious and only decks with GB get it.
Dreadbore. This too? Yes, just like any other Jund deck, we can also outright kill any creature or planeswalker without indestructible. <face palm>
Sideboard
Whoa, you mean we are already in the sideboard? Yes, chilluns, that’s it. It really is a simple mainboard. The sideboard is really not simple, though.
Creatures
CMC 1 Deathrite Shaman. Gotta beat Reanimator. This is option #1. Works with the game plan, great versus Junk, kinda bad versus Humanimator.
CMC 3 Vampire Nighthawk. I think it is greedy and slow, but 2/3 flying with deathtouch is fine when you are acting as the mid-range deck against all those little aggro decks.
CMC 4 Olivia Voldaren. Yep, straight up the path to the Queen of Hate. I’ll take one of those, and one of those, and kill those 1/1’s and keep growing. “What’s that, my sweet little blood bag? Yes, I am single-handedly draining all the blood out of you. Ah, refreshing.” Great against aggro and mid-range alike. The only problem is that getting to enough mana to take full advantage of her is not so simple.
CMC 5 Wolfir Silverheart. Yes, that’s a thing. For 3GG, make whatever else you have on the field +4/+4, and pair it with what is now an 8/8? Evolve Experiment One, so when you pair with it is a 6/6? Did I mention that this deck has a real mid-game plan?
Non-Creature Spells
This is where things get wild. You have all kinds of options.
CMC 1 Duress. A fine choice. Let’s you remove something that would interfere with your next big move or let them wipe the board, regain a ton of life and fill their hand, etc.
Cremate. Viable graveyard hate instead of Rakdos Charm or Deathrite Shaman.
CMC 2 Abrupt Decay, Searing Spear, Dreadbore. Sometimes more is better. Sometimes Dreadbore will be in your sideboard, not your main deck.
Rakdos Charm. The other graveyard control option. It is a one-shot deal, but against Humanimator, that is what you want. A little less value vs. Junk reanimator.
Golgari charm. Destroy enchantments, which is high-value these days. Kill off mana dorks or half of the Naya Blitz deck. Regenerate. Just value all around.
Skullcrack. Its not the 3 damage, though that is great. It is stopping their lifegain. Having to swing for 3-6 damage around a Thragtusk is much easier than swinging around a Thragtusk for 8-11. That is so important that if they have Witchbane Orb, it is worth shooting yourself for 3 to stop them from gaining life.
CMC 3 Domri Rade. What a beast of a planeswalker for us. A little acceleration, knowing what you are drawing next, forcing fights on our terms (great with stupid chump blockers), and the ultimate is awesome, though if you needed that to win, I think you might have already died. The best Planeswalker friend an aggro deck can have right now.
Liliana of the Veil. Yes, she has seen play. And if Reanimator was not so hot, she would be pretty good. We generally dump our hand anyway, and we can get one of their blockers out of the way. Plus it really messes with control decks.
CMC 4 Sever the Bloodline. Has seen GP play, is a valid, if rather expensive, removal option. Exile is great. “Boros Charm this!”
Slaughter Games. IMO, this is really greedy and not what we want to be using, but it has also seen play. Sub-optimal in my opinion. Duress is the better option.
Land Kessig Wolf Run. When you go to the mid-range build, and you want to finish and have 23 land. Just know when to use it. (HINT: I just told you when to use it.)
So, the main deck is straightforward and the card choices for creatures, outside of a little tussling in one 2 cmc slot, is very straightforward. Exact numbers may vary. Removal is also straightforward. Usually, minimum removal is 5 cards. The extra two could be creatures or they could be Domri Rade.
The sideboard is where the real genius of this deck is exposed. This is not a simple aggro deck, but a complex, flexible aggro deck that can extend into the mid-game and give any deck a run for its money.
Example deck list
Jund Aggro by Evan Boritas
Format: Standard - GTC
Location: 2013 StarCity Open Standard - Las Vegas - 3/2
Finished: 2nd Place
I'm also using DRS instead of Rakdos Charm.. I will give trust on Sam Black's articles (SCG premium) for this. He actually discussed that DRS is best vs Reanimator.. Simple and slowly doing GY hate, but still gives you the pace of killing the deck before its too late and roars out the big game changers like craterhoof and serenity.
Seems like you already built a primer.. I was thinking of preparing one as well but hey, you made one 1st. I can give you some inputs and additionals in the primer if you're open to that.
I'm thinking golgari charm needs to be more of a thing in jund aggro's SB. The Regen clause is significant and the -1/-1 is huge against all the mana dorks/lingering souls in the format right now.
Started removing golgari charm lately but still missing it.. still tweaking, but max of it is a 2 off only for me in SB
Interesting line from the article I linked written by the guy who got 2nd with the deck.
What do you guys think about that? Mulligan hands without a 1-drop?
If my hand has 3 lands and good 2 drops I'd never risk it. Sometimes you just dont get one. A late game Experiment one still helps, even a DRS.. Cackler, not much though.
What are you guys usually boarding out/in for the midrange strategy? I understand that Olivia + Silverheart go in along with wolf runs, but what are you guys taking out? Cacklers + bte?
Take out the most useless card you think you have vs the matchup and place the right card you believe will help you solve your proble, cards
for example, If I'm against Naya Humans and i'm going to go midrange-y, I'll be sideboarding out Flunkies and cacklers, Both are useless in defensive combat and racing out with Blitz is basically suicide.
If I am against any kind of reanimator, I'd be sideboarding out Experiment One and Ghor clans since trying to race against it is risky since they can reverse the tides instantly if youre not carefully looking at their GY.. they might also have annoying lotleth trolls thragtusks and centaurs always blocking the way so consistent damage/gain while trying to disrupt their GY magic namely Deathrite shaman works well, falkenrath/flying works well, skullcrack can also work well for them not to gain from Tusk, and tragic slips works well both as a mana dork killer or a biggie killer.
Against esper you may want to side out unnecessary removals and just use dreadbore and skullcracks and put in Domri Rade and draw your threats way to victory or fight those annoying bolases and intefering snapcasters when needed.
Against Jund midrange, race it to death. Im taking out flunkies here as well because they will just destroy and destroy any partner he might have, so instead im putting in useful removals too getting ready for huntmasters and Voldarens and those garruk tokens.
With all these lingering souls and metagame-defining thragtusks consistently growing and putting them into all sorts of decks using green, I'm thinking of getting in thundermaw hellkite once again.
Its actually a debate between me and my friends regarding DRS and Rakdos Charm.. I'd prefer any of them but in my setup DRS is more viable.. both has weaknesses.. DRS can target any needed GY card but is dead to abrupt decay of reanimators.. while Rakdos Charm is just one use..
Anyway, I am currently enjoying this list, not forcing anyone to do the same.. Im just sharing fellas..Getting nice wins. Im still tweaking the board
Here are some screenshots but worth the share, 2 reanimator winning matchups and some weird Grixis that tried to trashtalk me on game 2..
Player: noobing your way to victory
Me: Yeah at least im winning
Player: Looks like you'd lose to pillar cos your deck doesn't do much
Me: Your deck is good at playing lands though
Well, so far I don't know. Illness is something I am testing as a 1-of for games where being able to stop recurring 1/1 tokens has a lot of value, i.e. vs. Lingering Souls, which sees regular play in Esper and BW Aggro, both of which see some play in my locals, and Assemble the Legions, which AFAIK only sees regular non-FNM play in my locals.
Honestly, I would prefer Curse of Death's Hold, but 3BB seems not useful, whereas Illness in the Ranks is B and deals with the token we care about most. The only cards I see having value above 4cc are creatures, and then only Wolfir Silverheart (for big mid-range decks like Junk and Naya) or Zealous Conscripts. Everything else needs to be reasonably fast and cheap. If BW Aggro becomes a thing and surpasses Naya Blitz or Naya Humans (almost the same darn thing), I might even consider going back to Pillar of Flame because 2 damage then exile for R goes a long, long way. Haven't seen BW Aggro prove that is has real legs versus Jund and Junk Reanimator, though, and if you can't fight through those, well...
I'm even wondering if my two Sever the Bloodline shouldn't be Pillars. By the time 3B comes online, it is possibly too late. Pillar is also a great mana-dork killer, along with Golgari Charm. Then again, I've also thought about Mizzium Mortars too. 1R, 4 damage is usually very acceptable for us. If the problem was Loxodon Smiters everywhere, that would be easy.
I don't play ultimate price and other sacrifice a creature effects that much anymore =)
Actually I tone my removal package depending on the Jund Aggro setup I use since it has slightly different game plans. Now I am really testing dreadbore as a sideboard card only. Sometimes I feel I'm using instant speed removal in a sorcery kind of way so its kind of like this.
If Im playing the lower curve Exone-Cackler-BTE-Mogg-Boar (less 4cmc critts) setup, my choice would be
Abrupt Decay - staple
Searing Spear - BTE fodder, not that hard to cast normally as well in this setup
Mizzium Mortars - BTE fodder,BTE fodder, not that hard to cast normally as well in this setup
and all others at the sideB.
if I am going for non-BTE high-curve setup (Ex-one,geist,Hellrider+falkenraths,)
Abrupt Decay - staple
Pillar of Flame - easier to cast and its utility kill ability is a bonus.
Tragic Slip -triggers more often since you're geist wants to die always and easy to cast too since youll be having higher costs and combat tradeoffs using hellriders and falkenraths
and others at the sideB.
Now that Reanimator is getting more and more popular, I'd say and recommend to ready up those deathrite shamans whether main or sideboard, doesnt matter depending on your setup.
most likely my sideB would be..
3 Skullcrack - All the lifegain hate
3 Deathrite Shaman - All the GY hate
2 Dreadbore - All those unkillable pre-board, and planeswalkers
3 Domri Rade - vs esper and other control-focused decks
2 Olivia Voldaren - vs aggro
2 Volcanic Str - all decks using RED based aggro, gets your 3/3s into 5/5 unblockables which makes mortars/searingspear/ dead cards.
I squeezed Domri in my main , removing 2 Dreadbore.
Reckoner isn't nearly as popular in my meta so 5 answers was a bit much, and Domri can act as a removal spell if needed anyhow against many other creatures. Also helps you out a ton against control.
And as how Gerry Thompson crowded the minds of players in starcity games not playing Boros Reckoner in UWR Flash anymore, we'll be seeing less play of him. Expect BR in Naya, MonoRed and Gruul Aggro still.
I want to keep Abrupt Decay in for decks that are faster than us. Basically, Naya Blitz, where we can't kill their stuff in combat with our creatures, but it hits almost everything they run. In fact, vs. Naya Blitz, I would be tempted to bring in all the removal and be the mid-range deck. We have a much, much stronger mid-late game.
Sever is for the resurgence of undying with BW Aggro using Zombies and Blood Artist.
How does illness in the ranks perform as sideboard card? I've seen this but didnt give much attention since Ive got golgari charm. And oh, you can awlays put Domri main but include him in the game plan of your list, seems like you can further discuss how Domri will work not as sideboard material only. Kindly share your experiences after you test it more. I'll test it too. It seems youll use domri as a card-draw engine primarily because your still using low powered critts like BTE, Cackler and Mauler having your creature count to 31. For those Domri Rades used in Efro/Saito Naya they are using the fight primarily, since they have reckoners, smiters, and evolved Gyre sages to abuse the second ability.
On other topic I'd like to share what Sam Black has to say about Jund Aggro
"Jund Aggro gives up the speed of Champion of the Parish for the power of Falkenrath Aristocrat. It shares the Burning-Tree Emissary / Flinthoof Boar G/R Aggro shell, but Jund goes bigger with more haste, including Dreg Mangler in addition to Falkenrath Aristocrat.
This means sorcery speed removal is even worse, especially Supreme Verdict, and Blind Obedience, which is solid against Naya Blitz, is outstanding here. Tragic Slip is also even better because of Falkenrath Aristocrat.
Because Jund Aggro has bigger and more evasive creatures, most blockers are also worse, although the fact that they don't have Frontline Medic means that high-toughness blockers on the ground can shut down most of their forces if they don't have a Ghor-Clan Rampager or other removal spell.
In sideboarding, Jund Aggro is better positioned to change gears. It may try to become more controlling and bring in Olivia Voldaren in creature mirrors, while Naya Blitz is locked in on trying to be the fastest deck."
I think I'll really do try Olivia in some boarding action
Round 1 vs. Jund 2-1
Like all my rounds, I went to game 3. The basic theme was to strike early, expecting to have my creatures blown out by turn 4, which puts me very close to winning. The only issue then is to have a way to finish, which is typically Hellrider, Falkenrath Aristocrat, or Searing Spear. This can be a very hard match because Jund runs a lot of utility, between removal and lifegain and powerful creatures. Before side, there is really no consistent way to deal with Olivia Voldaren, and she can outright steal Falkenrath, so she is quite dangerous.
Round 2 vs. Giant Junk Reanimator 2-1
I call his Giant Junk because he uses Ghoul Tree and Avacyn, Angel of Hope. Olivia definitely comes in from the side because stealing Avacyn is game-breaking. Essentially, if I put pressure on him quickly and did 10-12 damage by turn 3, I was able to extend into the other damage. He really, really needed maximum ramp to get a turn 3 Thragtusk, and if that didn't happen, well, it was bad for him. Game 3, I had 5 creatures on the field for 12 damage turn 4 and I dropped a Hellrider.
Round 3 vs UWR Control 2-1
Again, if I establish an early board, he just can't get to removal quickly enough. Overloading the board is the only real defense against Azorius Charm, since it can only deal with one threat at a time. Generally, that threat was Experiment One because a turn 4 4/4 added to a Falkenrath Aristocrat is apparently quite nasty. Slaughter Games was ok, but already it just felt like it was not my game plan. Golgari Charm was invaluable here, since destroying Blind Obedience and Assemble the Legion took care of central pieces of his wincons. Dreadbore was delightful vs, PWs.
Round 4 vs. Humanimator 2-1
Rakdos Charm. Saved my butt. Plus, it is worth using removal on any mana dorks. You have to slow this deck down and then clean out its graveyard at the right moment.
Top 4
Round 5 vs Humanimator 2-0
Same guy, same outcome except I had the nut draw Game 2.
Round 6 vs. Jund 1-2
The guy I played first! Kept a greedy hand game 2 and flooding out game 3 meant I lost. How often do I draw 6 lands in a row?!?!
I never felt good about Slaughter Games and I never should have used it. Our game plan is to be aggressive early and then draw into a decent mid-game finisher. Card advantage is not our issue. That was a side-effect of my being primarily a control player, until WotC decided control should basically die. (Sorry, reflexive control player grousing since Cavern.)
Wolfir Silverheart never quite did what I wanted either. Maybe I just don't understand it's uses. Can someone tell me when and how they use it? It was a great card in Gyre Sage RG, but I had Arbor Elf and Gyre Sage. Here it feels, well, awkward.
I am removing Slaughter Games for Skullcrack, since frequently all I want to do is inhibit their lifegain for a turn so that my next attack actually ends the game. One denial of lifegain on a Thragtusk or Sphinx's Revelation is enough, especially after that additional 3 damage.
Wolfir Silverheart is coming out for Zealous Conscripts because I feel like taking one of their blockers, especially a flyer, and beating them down with it, plus the 3/3 Haste Conscripts itself, is more value than Wolfie.
Domri Rade was awesome, definitely something I might put a miser of in the main.
I really liked Gore-House Chainwalker over Mogg Flunkies. 3/2 can't block is way better than 3/3 "needs a friend or stands around like an idiot", but I am also considering Firefist Striker (Battalion, target creature can't block, makes a singleton blocker utterly ineffectual, but it doesn't grow Experiment One at the end of a Free Bear chain and stays 2/1).
Great game man, now I'm thinking about Rakdos charm again.. And I also agree that you use Skullcrack, this is a staple card in my board everytime..this will make sure you will not be slowed down my thragtusks, sphinx, huntmasters and centaur healers for that remaining life to make you win. Isnt it frustrating that if your opponent is down to 3-5 on about turn 5 or 6 and drops a thragtusk then in the end gets you on the losing side? Skullcrack fixes that. Don't worry if you are risking not dropping a creature waiting for an opportunity to counter lifegain because its really worth it. Besides skullcrack shines on turn 5 really, so probably you have a good board presence already.
Domri Rade, I love this card vs Esper. They just dont have any good answer for this aside from detention sphere which you can abrupt easily. You draw extra threats, kills those annoying augur of bolases by fighting. A must in the board, if you'll squeeze him in main, not bad as well.
I use Domri Rade vs Esper Control (Draw tech) and Red-based aggro and blitz, Aside from the extra removal, its saves some of my life points as most of the players I've had games with tend to kill Domri Asap by combat if they didnt have searing spear.
Its good vs reanimator yeah, but we are kind of looking for a sideboard material that works well with some decks otherwise, for example, deathrite shaman is not only good vs reanimator, but with UWR Flash as well.
Good wins pal. Your list is just right except that you may want to cut off hellrider and go low curve. Too bad for the draws you had in your losses.. that kind of luck is worse in MTGO..
I posted earlier about Volcanic strength in aristocrats.. You'll see potential.. Vs Aggro you can just side in more removal. I also quite using Volanic strength vs aggro and instead Im putting it in against aristocrats.
Golgari charm. Works wonders. -1-1 to tokens not to mention its main role is vs supreme verdict, Boros reckoner and bonfire of the damned. Destroying Assemble the legiona and other enchantments are just a bonus.
Skullcrack is a staple for me, now that there's someone who made a success using Turbofog Deck it might get some fans and create the deck as well so Skullcrack still is useful.
I like your Ultimate price main deck. Remove the 1 searing spear in the sb and put a single Ground seal. It works vs any Snapcaster Mage deck and renimator plus its card advantage.
Tried it, it works, but not much of a game changer. The spells slot is already tight and removals are much better options.
Kibler is such a midrange aggro Gyre sage fan even his Naya decks are so full of it. If you have the necessary acceleration it wouldnt hurt much. Try it and tell us how it goes.
Actually the mana producing ability is just a great bonus...1/2 evolve for a 2cmc creature is great, many people can't see it from the start but once youre playing it you'll see its power. Once it arrives to 4/5 its already a threat. Overall its a great card for 1G.
Before Im using volcanic strength vs red based aggro but sometimes it failed to do its job to win the race. So I decided to stop using it and just put in removals instead.. Where this card really showed its potential is the aristocrats. A boar/flunkie with Volcanic strength is almost unstoppable in this matchup. The removal set of usual aristocrat decks are is too low for it to be drawn, not to mention it will hurt them if they used Orzhov Charm. Volcanic strength is good against UWR flash sometimes since that deck is pretty slow in spending/abusing control elements unlike Esper. You may have chances that there's no answer..
Anyway best time to use VolcanicS is when opponent is tapped out, one mana left, or forcing them to bring out their removals to a creature thats likely to die anyway like BTE.;)
Yeah but on a curve like ours, this is heavy to cast...
It depends on the matchup, but I prefer Falkenrath more. Flying is good as always in the current meta.
This looks like the build I posted before
Its hard to mix and it gets inconsistent.. so for me I categorized these as 2 setup types, the BTE-Flunkies setup and the Hellrider-Geist setup.
Me too
but I still hope its just an April Fools Joke by MTGsalv.
Yeah Im thinking a lot about ultimate price as well.. not thinking maindeck though.
Ill be testing..
Main:
3 Searing Spear
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Mizzium Mortars (BTE setup), 2 Tragic Slip (Non-Bte)
Sideboard: Ultimate Price, temporarily removing dreadbore..
Glad to hear you're doing pretty good in your brew pal, I'm also trying to squeeze in desecration demon but I havent really played it that well. Anyway keep up the good work and still consider plans vs Junk reanimator which seems to be getting a lot of fuzz lately. During the video discussions of top players in SCG all they say is reanimator is the deck to beat right now, speaking of that they also mentioned Ground Seal is a good sb card to play right now you may want to try it for better results in your deck.
If reanimator's a big problem yeah, ultimate price kills almost all threats, instant speed. Restoration angel, angel of serenity, craterhoof behemoth, thragtusk and tokens, somberwalds,..other matchups it can kill are hellkites and desecration demons. Better to use it both though, because tragic slip is the sole card I can think of to dispose Obzedat. DevourFlesh/Tribute to hunger isnt much effective anymore due to all those annoying tokens always supporting Obzedat sideboard strategies against Jund Aggro.
Anyway I've been reading the top player's articles in SCG and still, reanimator is the deck to beat. They've been also tweaking a bant hexproof/aggro against it, and they also tweak their own reanimators to beat other reanimators..
As for me my take on it will be still considering a haste-destroy strategy. I want to have a lower curve though so Im on tweaking stage.
Anyway I'm still playing the conventional Jund Aggro sometimes, I have attached something fun to see, I surely know you've got turns like this as well
Update: Both golgari charm and rakdos charm works vs reanimator, with them playing so much dorks, golgari charm sweeps them off.
Update 2: Golgari charm can also surprise reckoners in aristocrat decks if their purpose is to let his reckoner die to kill another creature of yours, when his ability is on stack targeting your another creature, cast golgari charm for regen. He traded off 2 cards but at least you saved one of your creatures. And not only that its a sweeper against their lingering souls tokens.
Thanks! Wonderful, trying it out. A must need for turn 2 geist
I see, well based from my testing it didnt hurt much but you are right, maybe Ill remove 2 hellriders for greed reasons. I still need hellkite =)
Please tell me how you use cryptborn horror effectively. I am curious although its cute to think that itll drop a 5/5 most of the time based from your list
This may become a dead card if you're against aggro. Not quite sure yet if this can work against decks with heavy removal like Jund Midrange =)
Vs Naya humans and aristocrats, it seems to work well. Remember Naya humans have overflowing creatures to attack and block when needed, so an unblockable threat helps
He makes it heavier due to the BB though, youd be running max Crypts and summits here I presume. I'm just worried you might have a problem with BBs, RRs and GGs on your curve sometimes.
Great matches. Good thing you havent got into any reanimator which I will discuss in the bottom of this post.
Please observe your meta what are the most dominating decks though so you can create your good SB. Not all answers I suggested can be squeezed to a 15-card board so kindly bear in mind I am just giving out answers for you =)
Bant Wolf Run or Prime Speaker Bant? Or Auras? Well anyway maybe you are talking about wolf run in general. In these matchups immediately remove creatures with 2 power like cacklers, BTEs and other (except geist, they're tricky and can work and will be happy if azorious charmed) since Augur of Bolas and Centaur healer mostly blocks the way. For me Im removing searing spears and replace them with Skullcrack, Golgari Charm(for supreme verdict and detention spheres), and Slaughter Games(targeting Sphinx's revelation) . You may want to have 2 dreadbores as well since most probably they will side in some planeswalkers like Garruk and a biggie like Gisela/Aurelia. Dont remove Abrupt decays. Dont be afraid of thragtusk,instead save your mana for upcoming Restoration Angels and focus on using skullcrack well. Focus your removals on Restoration Angels and let your falkenraths/flyers finish the game.
Aristocrats - Basically, we are faster than Aristocrats but they can block and attack on different angles which makes them powerful. Which is why Volcanic strength shines not only on RDW but also on this deck. If you managed to successfully equip this to a creature like mangler or boar, it may become a huge threat automatically unless they wish to take 5 damage from Orzhov charm or force them sacrifice another creature for them to trigger tragic slip. Aristocrats seldom put heavy removal trust me. Olivia is also good and pings alot of tokens, infamys and small parishes,steals falkenrath easier, and a threat flier. Hellkite is also good. We have abrupt decay main so reckoner isnt much a threat not to mention it kills Paladin and Skirsdag, even the 5/5 tokens. Basically more removal will help you win together with volcanic str and olivia just remember to include both dreadbore and tragic slip to that since they usually have Sorin and Obzedat in their sideboard. Side out ghor-clan rampager, since the unbeatable blocks of Falkenrath, skirsdag token, cartel and the killer reckoner will simply weaken Ghor clan's potential. You can also side out a mangler or 2.
RDW - Trust me, racing them is suicide. They will, and always will be, faster. Again, Volcanic strength equipped to a 3/3. Mortars, searing spear will be unusable removal spells after this hits your jackpot. Just put in removals and nighthawks if you have. If your meta is heavy on RDW you can put flames of the firebrand.
Anyway on other news, heads up guys, Reanimator (the behemoth version, not the human) is gaining lot of popularity.
Top players and writers from SCG premium are already calling reanimator the best deck in Standard right now. Here's some inputs from the Innovator, Patrick Chapin:, if youre from Kansas or DC lucky you..
Standard Metagame: March 24, 2013 - see attachment
Standard Metagame: Magic Online - see attachment
* Misc = Wolf Run Bant, Human Reanimator, Mono-Red Aggro, Boros, 4CC, Delver
Tons of stuff to glean here. To start with, just look at the decks that have fallen off the grid in the last two weeks. Wolf Run Bant, Human Reanimator, Mono-Red Aggro, Boros, 4CC, and Delver? Not a one of those decks put someone into the Top 16 of SCG Washington, DC or SCG Kansas City.
Of course, as alluded to earlier, Reanimator has completely dominated over the past two weeks, winning both SCG Opens and giving nine players Top 16 finishes. Once, we get past it, we come to a relatively even tier featuring U/W/R, Esper, Jund, and Naya. While this tier is relatively even averaged out, it is certainly far from stable. Three weeks ago, Jund and U/W/R were the format's top dogs. The following week, they were both completely blanked and Esper and Naya tripled their combined metagame presence. This past weekend, U/W/R rebounded, but Jund not so much, with Esper and Naya still putting up results.
This new breed of Reanimator deck plays a passable aggressive midrange game and is chock full of threats small, medium, and large. While it can apply early pressure, it really just wants to hang out until it builds a game-winning advantage in its graveyard.
Strengths:
Proactive
More powerful than most midrange
Solid B game if graveyards are shut down
Weaknesses:
Lack of interaction - Beyond attacking and blocking, there isn't a lot Reanimator can do to troublesome permanents. There are a few answers in the sideboard, but they get stretched pretty thin.
Graveyard hate - While these Reanimator decks are not slave to the graveyard, graveyard hate still turns them into very mediocre midrange G/W/B decks.
Vulnerable to racing - The last time this style of Reanimator was popular, it struggled with fast G/W Human decks. Could those decks possibly make a comeback? What other fast decks can race it? Thundermaw Hellkite is definitely annoying.
So there you have it. Other than that, analysts are saying that Jund, Esper, Naya, And UWR Flash(without reckoner) will be the top seeing lists during the upcoming weeks aside from the top performing reanimator (NOT THE HUMAN VERSION)
In line with this, I create my decklist
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Dreg Mangler
4 Hellrider
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Tragic Slip
24 landbase (still for testing)
3 Skullcrack
1 Deathrite Shaman
3 Domri Rade
2 Olivia Voldaren
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Dreadbore
2 Volcanic Strength
1 Golgari Charm
My proactive game plan is basically race to finish game 1, and depending on the matchup I will use my sideboard cards which fits for the usual popular decks. Can't wait to play a Standard daily this week
May I kindly ask which archetype would you like hearing opinion for? But to answer you for now, skullcrack is an SB staple for me, basically vs anything lifegain mainly thragtusk. Domri rade Vs Esper Control, Volcanic Str Vs Red based aggro and now I am thinking DRS will be a staple for me right now, until reanimator gains less popularity
When I saw your deck its like the Efro/Saito Naya converted to Jund. You have demanding board presence here. Why not remove Wolfir Silverheart here and just put another hellkite or desecration Demon? Not bad, I would love to try Domri Rade rolling out Desecration Demon for a great fight before declare attackers step lol.
Olivia Voldaren? Well, its good against aggro and other midrange decks as well. And I tell you right now that thragtusk is dominating the standard meta we would love to see more flying creatures dealing hellacious offense such as hellkites, voldarens and falkenraths evading ground threats not to mention Reckoner and early Smiters that stop our boars and manglers from progressing. Its not all the time we have removal every turn. Olivia is also good vs the aristocrats
Actually I tried it but never really fully liked it even if somehow he blends in well.. Majority of Jund aggro game plan is to keep pressure out of the opponent while clearing out any possible threat in the board by our chosen removal spells. Domri rade contributes nothing to that. Although he may seem relevant, its actually more of Naya's needs considering their removal spells are limited and the power cards like loxodon smiter and boros reckoner greatly abuse the -2 ability. For me, he sticks in sideboard, and best card vs esper control.
I'm also using DRS instead of Rakdos Charm.. I will give trust on Sam Black's articles (SCG premium) for this. He actually discussed that DRS is best vs Reanimator.. Simple and slowly doing GY hate, but still gives you the pace of killing the deck before its too late and roars out the big game changers like craterhoof and serenity.
Seems like you already built a primer.. I was thinking of preparing one as well but hey, you made one 1st. I can give you some inputs and additionals in the primer if you're open to that.
Started removing golgari charm lately but still missing it.. still tweaking, but max of it is a 2 off only for me in SB
If my hand has 3 lands and good 2 drops I'd never risk it. Sometimes you just dont get one. A late game Experiment one still helps, even a DRS.. Cackler, not much though.
Take out the most useless card you think you have vs the matchup and place the right card you believe will help you solve your proble, cards
for example, If I'm against Naya Humans and i'm going to go midrange-y, I'll be sideboarding out Flunkies and cacklers, Both are useless in defensive combat and racing out with Blitz is basically suicide.
If I am against any kind of reanimator, I'd be sideboarding out Experiment One and Ghor clans since trying to race against it is risky since they can reverse the tides instantly if youre not carefully looking at their GY.. they might also have annoying lotleth trolls thragtusks and centaurs always blocking the way so consistent damage/gain while trying to disrupt their GY magic namely Deathrite shaman works well, falkenrath/flying works well, skullcrack can also work well for them not to gain from Tusk, and tragic slips works well both as a mana dork killer or a biggie killer.
Against esper you may want to side out unnecessary removals and just use dreadbore and skullcracks and put in Domri Rade and draw your threats way to victory or fight those annoying bolases and intefering snapcasters when needed.
Against Jund midrange, race it to death. Im taking out flunkies here as well because they will just destroy and destroy any partner he might have, so instead im putting in useful removals too getting ready for huntmasters and Voldarens and those garruk tokens.
With all these lingering souls and metagame-defining thragtusks consistently growing and putting them into all sorts of decks using green, I'm thinking of getting in thundermaw hellkite once again.
Its actually a debate between me and my friends regarding DRS and Rakdos Charm.. I'd prefer any of them but in my setup DRS is more viable.. both has weaknesses.. DRS can target any needed GY card but is dead to abrupt decay of reanimators.. while Rakdos Charm is just one use..
Anyway, I am currently enjoying this list, not forcing anyone to do the same.. Im just sharing fellas..Getting nice wins. Im still tweaking the board
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Flinthoof Boar
4 Dreg Mangler
4 Falkenrath Aristocrat
3 Hellrider
3 Ghor-Clan Rampager
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Pillar of Flame
2 Tragic Slip
4 Blood Crypt
2 Dragonskull Summit
3 Rootbound Crag
3 Stomping Ground
4 Overgrown Tomb
4 Woodland Cemetery
1 Mountain
2 Forest
Here are some screenshots but worth the share, 2 reanimator winning matchups and some weird Grixis that tried to trashtalk me on game 2..
Player: noobing your way to victory
Me: Yeah at least im winning
Player: Looks like you'd lose to pillar cos your deck doesn't do much
Me: Your deck is good at playing lands though
good thing you observe your locals well.
Removals.. My only top options
Dreadbore
Abrupt Decay
Mizzium Mortars
Pillar of Flame
Searing Spear
Tragic Slip.
I don't play ultimate price and other sacrifice a creature effects that much anymore =)
Actually I tone my removal package depending on the Jund Aggro setup I use since it has slightly different game plans. Now I am really testing dreadbore as a sideboard card only. Sometimes I feel I'm using instant speed removal in a sorcery kind of way so its kind of like this.
If Im playing the lower curve Exone-Cackler-BTE-Mogg-Boar (less 4cmc critts) setup, my choice would be
Abrupt Decay - staple
Searing Spear - BTE fodder, not that hard to cast normally as well in this setup
Mizzium Mortars - BTE fodder,BTE fodder, not that hard to cast normally as well in this setup
and all others at the sideB.
if I am going for non-BTE high-curve setup (Ex-one,geist,Hellrider+falkenraths,)
Abrupt Decay - staple
Pillar of Flame - easier to cast and its utility kill ability is a bonus.
Tragic Slip -triggers more often since you're geist wants to die always and easy to cast too since youll be having higher costs and combat tradeoffs using hellriders and falkenraths
and others at the sideB.
Now that Reanimator is getting more and more popular, I'd say and recommend to ready up those deathrite shamans whether main or sideboard, doesnt matter depending on your setup.
most likely my sideB would be..
3 Skullcrack - All the lifegain hate
3 Deathrite Shaman - All the GY hate
2 Dreadbore - All those unkillable pre-board, and planeswalkers
3 Domri Rade - vs esper and other control-focused decks
2 Olivia Voldaren - vs aggro
2 Volcanic Str - all decks using RED based aggro, gets your 3/3s into 5/5 unblockables which makes mortars/searingspear/ dead cards.
And as how Gerry Thompson crowded the minds of players in starcity games not playing Boros Reckoner in UWR Flash anymore, we'll be seeing less play of him. Expect BR in Naya, MonoRed and Gruul Aggro still.
How does illness in the ranks perform as sideboard card? I've seen this but didnt give much attention since Ive got golgari charm. And oh, you can awlays put Domri main but include him in the game plan of your list, seems like you can further discuss how Domri will work not as sideboard material only. Kindly share your experiences after you test it more. I'll test it too. It seems youll use domri as a card-draw engine primarily because your still using low powered critts like BTE, Cackler and Mauler having your creature count to 31. For those Domri Rades used in Efro/Saito Naya they are using the fight primarily, since they have reckoners, smiters, and evolved Gyre sages to abuse the second ability.
On other topic I'd like to share what Sam Black has to say about Jund Aggro
"Jund Aggro gives up the speed of Champion of the Parish for the power of Falkenrath Aristocrat. It shares the Burning-Tree Emissary / Flinthoof Boar G/R Aggro shell, but Jund goes bigger with more haste, including Dreg Mangler in addition to Falkenrath Aristocrat.
This means sorcery speed removal is even worse, especially Supreme Verdict, and Blind Obedience, which is solid against Naya Blitz, is outstanding here. Tragic Slip is also even better because of Falkenrath Aristocrat.
Because Jund Aggro has bigger and more evasive creatures, most blockers are also worse, although the fact that they don't have Frontline Medic means that high-toughness blockers on the ground can shut down most of their forces if they don't have a Ghor-Clan Rampager or other removal spell.
In sideboarding, Jund Aggro is better positioned to change gears. It may try to become more controlling and bring in Olivia Voldaren in creature mirrors, while Naya Blitz is locked in on trying to be the fastest deck."
I think I'll really do try Olivia in some boarding action
Great game man, now I'm thinking about Rakdos charm again.. And I also agree that you use Skullcrack, this is a staple card in my board everytime..this will make sure you will not be slowed down my thragtusks, sphinx, huntmasters and centaur healers for that remaining life to make you win. Isnt it frustrating that if your opponent is down to 3-5 on about turn 5 or 6 and drops a thragtusk then in the end gets you on the losing side? Skullcrack fixes that. Don't worry if you are risking not dropping a creature waiting for an opportunity to counter lifegain because its really worth it. Besides skullcrack shines on turn 5 really, so probably you have a good board presence already.
Domri Rade, I love this card vs Esper. They just dont have any good answer for this aside from detention sphere which you can abrupt easily. You draw extra threats, kills those annoying augur of bolases by fighting. A must in the board, if you'll squeeze him in main, not bad as well.