Yes, unless it specifies Either triggered or activated abilities, it will take all of them, so the card does.
@Anticipate-discuss: Ive substituted one of the 4 think twices for anticipate and have generally been glad for it. as someone stated; anticipate is better when you need a specific card right now.
For me it has been at its best in control-mirrors, when i have enough bait for their counterspells (ECharm, Rev, cryptic (Bounce land + draw)) and i just needed a threat to fire it all off for profit.
However, even in that situation tt+flashback would get 2 cards deep, and anticipate 3. - so not the biggest gap there.
But in the early turns, where we don't have the mana to cast + flashback, id probably rather have anticipate find my wrath NOW!!! than TT.
Overall i would say, if you wanna run it, 1 copy is fine. 2 is iffy and 3 is greedy.
I still think that if you really need to find a card like wrath or logic knot/remand, wouldnt peer through depths just be a better option?
I think its kinda hard to fit anticipate in the deck without taking out important stuff. Our flex spots are limited. The other thing is: contrary to most decks (wich are vulnerable to hand disruption) the decision to go quantity over quality makes us good vs jund, abzan, 8racks etc. I dont think we can afford to lose our advantage vs jund wich represents 10% of the meta. You can try it and let us know, and tell us what you cut for it.
For some reason to me, it is starting to feel like we are trying to build a commander deck.
Singleton this, singleton that, we can cut down from 4 of a primary spell to 3 to fit in another singleton something. At some point in time, I feel like if we keep trimming the core, we won't be able to consistently find what we need, which is kind of the point of this deck isn't it?
Put it this way, you would not want to anticipate/peer for a draw spell, we have enough of those already, probably not a charm, or a cryptic (too expensive most likely to cast outright at that time). you would mainly want to try to anticipate/peer for a wrath effect, a hard counter, or a spot removal. So if anything i could see cutting 1 think twice and 1 cryptic. But that's just me.
A word on anticipate...since most of what we would be digging for is an instant or sorc, wouldnt peer through depths be a better option?
Think of it as, i can dig three but reveal 3 lands, and put a land into my hand, or i can dig 5, find my answer, and still probably draw a land next turn.
On the new 2UU counterspell, I don't see it shining in a counter war at all. at this point, you would have already expended your counters, and may not have enough mana to even cast. It also gets rid of your counters so any remands you played you lose the draw, and any logic knots you played those cards still remain exiled. p.s they can still counter this.
The only way I see this being valuable is in the following:
Storm - Gets rid of all grapeshots etc
Valakut - gets rid of all triggers
Infect - ? I'm pretty sure infect is a triggered ability, so I believe this can counter that, also goes for boggles with totem armor etc.
and VERY (as in I'd rather just counter) fringe value against the following:
Living end - they should have already expended most of their stuff, so you can just counter the living end, also can help if they have a lot of etb effects, and you can manage to wrath on the next turn, though cryptic/negate/logic knot/remand on the living end works just as well.
amulet titan - can get rid of the trigger from kessig wolf run to at lest survive, though again, could just as easily just counter the titan or whatever fetches the titan
nahiri control - can counter the ult of nahiri, but again, can just get rid of the nahiri in the first place
tron - can counter wurmcoil trigger, ulamog/karn trigger, map trigger, though all of these can just be hard countered anyways
Ad nauseam - only if you managed to counter through the 3-4 maindeck pacts to counter the lightnings storm, then they try to win via lab man, and you counter that? still, could just counter the ad nauseam.
Kiki-Chord - maybe? again, why not just counter the actual kiki
Also, not valuable at all against:
Burn - duh
RDW - again, duh
Merfolk/elves/goblins....pretty much any creature based/aggro deck in general
Jund
Mirror
I get it, that it's tempting due to the cast triggers from some eldrazi titans, but honestly if they even got to the point where they can cast it, you are probably in a bad spot. Think about it this way, sure you get rid of one ulamog, but they probably have another, or can ancient stirrings another, or cast ugin/karn, or a wurmcoil, and you are still in a rough spot, so it doesn't really add too much value overall.
I'm also working on a barely esper list as well based off of my UW list which also seems promising. The life gain allowing the minor black splash and freeing u pa bit of SB space seems to have completely solved (on paper at least) all of the issues I had with plain UW with ancestral. Also it is super sweet!
The main catch here is that I'm only on 25 lands because I really want to keep Elle in the main since I have no MD hand disruption to protect zenith and colonnades. I can be convinced that it's unnecessary, but with all of the times I've played against the various delver decks, grixis especially, it is very easy to run out of ways to actually win the game if they tag WSZ with something or die before I can protect it. Also the purge in the side can easily be turned into some form of GY hate like a single relic or RIP, but I usually dislike having only 1 effect like that. Personally, I want to have at least 2 or not bother. Perhaps something like -1 purge, -1 halo and +2 rip. The godless shrine is in the side in addition to the MD grave because a number of decks that I bring in the black for have some form of LD like world breaker in tron or many GQs effects in other decks.
WSZ isnt excatly your only wincon. Remember you have 4 colonnades that are 4/4s. Sure they can kill one or two, but killing all 4 will be hard. You are also looking to take the game to t13-t15, so you dont really need to tap out for elspeth just to get some chump blockers who dont fly. You can also put in a creeping tar pit or two, and bump to 3 snapcaster so you can recur WSZ, or counters if necessary
just as a random question with nahiri control etc running around...why no bribery??
I remember quite a few people playing 1-2 but then it seemed like the MU was determined one of our better ones without taking up the SB space.
I'm sorry, relatively new to this deck, but MU?
In other news, the way i look at bribery, even at a 3UU sorc speed, is almost like a spoils of the vault for ad nauseam (a deck i'm more familiar with). Use it when you know you can win with it, but never any other time. Currently, I feel like the decks its good against is eldrazitron, tron, nahiri control (especially on the play as it comes down after they tap out for nahiri), and titanshift, as it takes a primeval, gets you 2-4 land, which can be huge to cast revelation.
The other thing I like about bribery is that if you know their deck for the most part, especially top tier decks like nahiri control etc, where there isn't too much variance, you get to discern what is in their hand as well, which can be crucial for what you want to do with esper charm, your counters on the next turn, etc.
one last question. I've been playing 1x narset transcendent, 1x sorin, grim nemesis, and 1x ugin in MB. The only main difference i see in the builds is the counters. I currently run
1x negate
1x remand
2x spell snare
4x cryptic
2x knot
3x snapcaster
Has anyone tested these walkers in this deck? I feel like narset is just good, since half the deck is a target, and worst case is you have a land on top. sorin at worst is a 6 mana gain 6 life, and ugin is....well ugin.
I'm just wondering if my build is more esper control, rather than esper draw-go
Looking forward to testing with Emrakul, the promised end. Thinking she might be good as an alternative threat when playing against a deck running path. turn 1 map, turn 2 crack map. Turn 3 achieve Tron - play all is dust. Turn 4 play second tower and drop Emrekul for 10. Not Sure if that's better than just dropping Ulamog t4 though?
If i'm not mistaken, emra would cost 11 in this scenario. In GY would only be sorc (all is dust) and artifact (map)
edit- my mistake, forgot about tribal from all is dust :/
I think the red splash is the best splash, but not altogether an improvement over black.
I feel that with the mono B version i would have matches where the deck would just stall. With R i feel like I stall less, and have more options in the SB.
I should note that I have not been playing sith lotv, as I found that players will often hold removal or counters for her and let some other spells like blightning or k command resolve.
Has anyone tested splashing red? Been having some success with it by using faithless looting, liliana caress, burning inquary, and rix maadi activated on their draw step to stop their top decks
You cannot activate Rix Maadi on their draw step, only on your main phases (only as a sorcery).
Red splash is awesome tho. Not better then mono B just... idk different I guess.
Sorry about that :/ sleep deprivation...
I have been using k-command in that respect though and that does end up working
Has anyone tested splashing red? Been having some success with it by using faithless looting, liliana caress, burning inquary, and rix maadi activated on their draw step to stop their top decks
hurkyl's recall and darkness do basically the same thing, you don't need both.
Darkness vs infect <--id guess about 20% of my meta
recall vs affinity/thopter sword/chalice.
Chalice played in about 15% of sb i think, and chakice on 1 hurts. Affinity accounts for about 18%ish of my meta, thopter sword, merfolk, burn, company, and tron i run into fairly often. Ive seen chalice come in with some company builds in my meta and almost every merfolk deck, along with random decks with vial.
Just wondering if leyline is really a necessary 3-4 sb slot? I get the matchup value vs burn and discard, but is there a better option that may be more versitile vs GBx and burn?
Honestly, it's pretty indispensable for BGx. If your metagame has the same levels of Jund as most (it's currently the most-played deck in paper Magic), then you need 3-4 of them. Without Leyline, the Jund matchup is just untenable, especially if they add more discard in G2-G3 hoping you miss on Leyline. Maybe you can get away with no Leyline in a Jund-lite metagame, but I wouldn't count on it.
Thanks! My sb is currently as follows
3x leyline of sanctity
3x darkness
2x thoughtseize
2x hurkyl's recall
2x spellskite
1x patricians scorn
1x boseiju, who shelters all
1x slaughter pact [have 1 in mb]
My meta is usually fairly mixed, but a little heavier on infect and company than jund. Thoughts?
I still think that if you really need to find a card like wrath or logic knot/remand, wouldnt peer through depths just be a better option?
Edit: I really should not try to post things at 3am lol
For some reason to me, it is starting to feel like we are trying to build a commander deck.
Singleton this, singleton that, we can cut down from 4 of a primary spell to 3 to fit in another singleton something. At some point in time, I feel like if we keep trimming the core, we won't be able to consistently find what we need, which is kind of the point of this deck isn't it?
Put it this way, you would not want to anticipate/peer for a draw spell, we have enough of those already, probably not a charm, or a cryptic (too expensive most likely to cast outright at that time). you would mainly want to try to anticipate/peer for a wrath effect, a hard counter, or a spot removal. So if anything i could see cutting 1 think twice and 1 cryptic. But that's just me.
Think of it as, i can dig three but reveal 3 lands, and put a land into my hand, or i can dig 5, find my answer, and still probably draw a land next turn.
On the new 2UU counterspell, I don't see it shining in a counter war at all. at this point, you would have already expended your counters, and may not have enough mana to even cast. It also gets rid of your counters so any remands you played you lose the draw, and any logic knots you played those cards still remain exiled. p.s they can still counter this.
The only way I see this being valuable is in the following:
Storm - Gets rid of all grapeshots etc
Valakut - gets rid of all triggers
Infect - ? I'm pretty sure infect is a triggered ability, so I believe this can counter that, also goes for boggles with totem armor etc.
and VERY (as in I'd rather just counter) fringe value against the following:
Living end - they should have already expended most of their stuff, so you can just counter the living end, also can help if they have a lot of etb effects, and you can manage to wrath on the next turn, though cryptic/negate/logic knot/remand on the living end works just as well.
amulet titan - can get rid of the trigger from kessig wolf run to at lest survive, though again, could just as easily just counter the titan or whatever fetches the titan
nahiri control - can counter the ult of nahiri, but again, can just get rid of the nahiri in the first place
tron - can counter wurmcoil trigger, ulamog/karn trigger, map trigger, though all of these can just be hard countered anyways
Ad nauseam - only if you managed to counter through the 3-4 maindeck pacts to counter the lightnings storm, then they try to win via lab man, and you counter that? still, could just counter the ad nauseam.
Kiki-Chord - maybe? again, why not just counter the actual kiki
Also, not valuable at all against:
Burn - duh
RDW - again, duh
Merfolk/elves/goblins....pretty much any creature based/aggro deck in general
Jund
Mirror
I get it, that it's tempting due to the cast triggers from some eldrazi titans, but honestly if they even got to the point where they can cast it, you are probably in a bad spot. Think about it this way, sure you get rid of one ulamog, but they probably have another, or can ancient stirrings another, or cast ugin/karn, or a wurmcoil, and you are still in a rough spot, so it doesn't really add too much value overall.
WSZ isnt excatly your only wincon. Remember you have 4 colonnades that are 4/4s. Sure they can kill one or two, but killing all 4 will be hard. You are also looking to take the game to t13-t15, so you dont really need to tap out for elspeth just to get some chump blockers who dont fly. You can also put in a creeping tar pit or two, and bump to 3 snapcaster so you can recur WSZ, or counters if necessary
I'm sorry, relatively new to this deck, but MU?
In other news, the way i look at bribery, even at a 3UU sorc speed, is almost like a spoils of the vault for ad nauseam (a deck i'm more familiar with). Use it when you know you can win with it, but never any other time. Currently, I feel like the decks its good against is eldrazitron, tron, nahiri control (especially on the play as it comes down after they tap out for nahiri), and titanshift, as it takes a primeval, gets you 2-4 land, which can be huge to cast revelation.
The other thing I like about bribery is that if you know their deck for the most part, especially top tier decks like nahiri control etc, where there isn't too much variance, you get to discern what is in their hand as well, which can be crucial for what you want to do with esper charm, your counters on the next turn, etc.
one last question. I've been playing 1x narset transcendent, 1x sorin, grim nemesis, and 1x ugin in MB. The only main difference i see in the builds is the counters. I currently run
1x negate
1x remand
2x spell snare
4x cryptic
2x knot
3x snapcaster
Has anyone tested these walkers in this deck? I feel like narset is just good, since half the deck is a target, and worst case is you have a land on top. sorin at worst is a 6 mana gain 6 life, and ugin is....well ugin.
I'm just wondering if my build is more esper control, rather than esper draw-go
If i'm not mistaken, emra would cost 11 in this scenario. In GY would only be sorc (all is dust) and artifact (map)
edit- my mistake, forgot about tribal from all is dust :/
I feel that with the mono B version i would have matches where the deck would just stall. With R i feel like I stall less, and have more options in the SB.
I should note that I have not been playing sith lotv, as I found that players will often hold removal or counters for her and let some other spells like blightning or k command resolve.
Sorry about that :/ sleep deprivation...
I have been using k-command in that respect though and that does end up working
Darkness vs infect <--id guess about 20% of my meta
recall vs affinity/thopter sword/chalice.
Chalice played in about 15% of sb i think, and chakice on 1 hurts. Affinity accounts for about 18%ish of my meta, thopter sword, merfolk, burn, company, and tron i run into fairly often. Ive seen chalice come in with some company builds in my meta and almost every merfolk deck, along with random decks with vial.
Thanks! My sb is currently as follows
3x leyline of sanctity
3x darkness
2x thoughtseize
2x hurkyl's recall
2x spellskite
1x patricians scorn
1x boseiju, who shelters all
1x slaughter pact [have 1 in mb]
My meta is usually fairly mixed, but a little heavier on infect and company than jund. Thoughts?