Those are just a few that lend to a "if I untap I win" strategy with this beastly woman. You could go all out affinity with artifacts. She needs 9 counters to kill in one swing, won't happen, but 3 on 2 swings is gravy. Add in anthem effects that white has, and instant speed pumps in red, she takes over a game faster than any other Boros General I can think of. I like it already
Edit: Possibilty Storm and knowledge pool seem like they will have incredible synergy with her as well. 2 cast triggers per turn is possible. I like her better that Tajic as it's a tall, rather than wide strategy. White has "flicker" effects to offset removal of the targeted and wrath variety.
Can we all agree that this card is not meant to be a beater? Please? It's meant to clog up the redzone, simple as that. With a counter, it stuffs everything. If it has to eat hard removal, great, my threats will just have one less impediment to worry about. That's why he's good. This set will be more about going tall, than going wide. He can be pumped to absurd levels in the late game, trading with Eldrazi, survive, and then hit back if needed. He's a 4-drop, as on turn three he's the most vulnerable, so stop comparing him to those cards. A turn 1-2 hardened scales into Managroger hydra into turn 4 undergrowth champion is freaking nuts. I get it, he dies to removal, the most cliched "drawback" in MTG. Again, if he gets the removal, what are you leaving behind? Atarka's Command and Swell of growth are going to be all-stars in this standard, and he plays incredibly nice with both. Heck, he could be your Safety valve while you ramp into your Eldrazi if that is your cup of tea.
I guess the real question isn't if he will be answered or not, it's if you want to waste the removal on him. There isn't much in terms of great removal for this coming standard. It's either really expensive or conditional, and even worse, the best removal is sorcery speed. He seems like a control players nightmare if it resolves.
In my testing of this format, "wasting removal" isn't much of a thing. Removal maybe at a premium, but once we're looking at 3-drops and higher, it's not too inefficient. A control deck running four Ruinous Path and some number of sweepers won't think twice about firing off against this guy, and they enjoy the added benefit of getting to largely ignore him if the game goes long.
I've faced a handful of people running Champions so far over the past two weeks with my Esper control deck, and he's never been a threat to me, for what it's worth.
So will roast kill him or just knock of counters?
The damage will be prevented and he'll lose a counter. He's good against red removal, I'm not contesting that. But splashing and fixing is really easy right now, so any deck other than mono-red should have no problem finding an answer to him.
Well that Ruinous Path and a few other spell will kill him, thats pretty good.
if you use him with a fetch land and a standard land then drop a three counter with atarka's command he is a 5/5 to swing with on turn three. Along with the other landfall creature. They all can't be answered with a control deck.
I haven't tested him but just looking around he is something that can't be left on the table.
Think if you have two or three on the table. ouch!!!!!
Without haste, the earliest that 5/5 is attacking is turn 4. That's a lot worse than turn 3. Should be pretty easy to find a removal spell by turn 4, and if we're assuming the control deck isn't finding immediate removal, there are much more aggressive plays to make in Standard.
Why is it that everybody says "there are much better options than card'x'", but never list said cards? This will see play. It eats the best removal a control deck has to offer, as that is probably the only way you are going to get it off the field. You don't have to sink resources into pumping him. With fetches, it makes this card incredibly hard to do battle math. It's a "build around me card", but it can hold it's own if needed.
Why does he need some sort of evasion to be good? His evasion is damage prevention. He's not a beater. He's going to trade with the best aggro creatures in the current games most of the time, and still stick around to do it again. There's not going to be a lot of relevant removal in the game to get him off the board before he's pumped at least once. A Hardened Scales on turn one has the potential to put this guy at a 6/6 turn 4 with a fetch. Personally, I think he requires an answer the turn he comes down. If not, it's going to be a hard time slowing him down. If he eats the removal, it leaves the Hydras, Eldrazi, and Walkers at a lower risk. I don't think I've ever been to see my 3 drop eat "hard" removal, at least not in standard.
I so agree
If he is not answered he will become huge
Sure, but what are the odds that he won't be answered?
He's a decent road block against a creature-based aggro deck, and that's just about the only positive thing I have to say about him. Any midrange or control deck will have unconditional removal to get rid of him in an efficient manner, and many can simply ignore him by playing a big creature that wasn't reliant on landfall triggers to get that way.
Edit: Yeah, Hardened Scales improves his potential. Still, that assumes Hardened Scales becomes a deck. From what I've seen so far, it's a casual build at best.
I guess the real question isn't if he will be answered or not, it's if you want to waste the removal on him. There isn't much in terms of great removal for this coming standard. It's either really expensive or conditional, and even worse, the best removal is sorcery speed. He seems like a control players nightmare if it resolves.
Why does he need some sort of evasion to be good? His evasion is damage prevention. He's not a beater. He's going to trade with the best aggro creatures in the current games most of the time, and still stick around to do it again. There's not going to be a lot of relevant removal in the game to get him off the board before he's pumped at least once. A Hardened Scales on turn one has the potential to put this guy at a 6/6 turn 4 with a fetch. Personally, I think he requires an answer the turn he comes down. If not, it's going to be a hard time slowing him down. If he eats the removal, it leaves the Hydras, Eldrazi, and Walkers at a lower risk. I don't think I've ever been to see my 3 drop eat "hard" removal, at least not in standard.
Cunning StrikeZada, Hedron Grinder I don't understand why people that want help can't even be bothered to link the card.
And the answer is no, no copies are made, cunning strike has multiple targets, Zada's effect says spells that only target her.
Yikes, so much for a warm welcome. Guys only 2 posts in.
Well if he bothered to read the card and noticed it says targets only zada, he wouldnt even have those 2 posts
The rage was justified
While it is true that the card spells the effect out clearly, Cunning Strike could absolutely cause some confusion to a newer player. Yes, it states a spell that only targets Zada, but, Strike targets a creature and a player. It could be misconstrued as Zada is still the only target as players life points and creatures are somewhat diffrent. I guess my point was that he only dished out criticism, nothing the noob could take away from it. Could have maybe posted the link to forum rules or the thread itself explaining tags. Some lead, others follow I guess.
Horribly Awry is not given even a sliver of credit it should be, the card is kind of absurd.
This is just plain wrong. Essence scatter/remove soul is not playable, and this is a very conditional remove soul. I guarantee there won't be a legitimately competitive deck that runs this card anywhere in the 75. Like that's it even for? Stopping siege rhino? Then it can't stop any of ther other cards siege rhino decks play - den protector / hangarback walker most of the time / deathmist / anafenza and presumable undergrowth champignon and the new +1+1 counter vampire. So you can't run it against abzan. What does it actually do?
I'll hold you to that. FYI, it counters/exiles Hangarback walker, all flip-walkers, all creature based ramp, most Allies, most ingest creatures, deathmist raptor and a handful of processors. Oh, and it's processor fuel. Unconditionally countering and exiling those cards is insane. I agree there are better options, but they don't exist in this standard.
Edit:explain how card less than 4cmc aren't countered again? Because all of those cards you listed are, as well as morph creatures.
The fact that you think it is ever remotely reasonable for a person to believe they need to be armed AT ALL TIMES says all that really needs to be said about gun culture here in the U.S.
That is absurd. It is almost never true. There is practically nowhere in this country where one is in so much danger that carrying at all times is necessary, there's certainly nowhere that has a local game store that fits in that category, and it's been shown bu study after study that having firearms actually makes you less safe, because the amount of accidents far, far outstrips the one-in-10-million times where someone actually stops a violent criminal.
Finally, standing up in a store full of kids, while playing a game, to show everyone at the table that you have a gun and apparently aren't afraid to use it is the insanely immature and irresponsible. If I owned that store, I would throw that customer out and never let him back in. This time it's just threatening. Who knows what will happen next time? That person has already demonstrated they aren't a responsible firearm owner.
This is the part that stood out the most to me. A responsible gun owner would not show a gun to somebody who made an idle threat. That just isn't smart, even if you care about nobody but yourself. A gun in your waistband does nothing to somebody who attacks you at close range.
I hate myself for prolonging this debate, but a responsible gun owner would never pull out...or even show a gun until they were forced to use it. In my younger days, I carried at least 1 gun with me at all times, but no one ever knew. But I was in fact irresponsible once because I left one of my guns at my work; a gas station, and the employee turned it in to the police, who gave it back because it was registered in my name. I would say that this situation here in this thread is more of an example of "cop mentality," to show a weapon with such brazenness, than it is gun culture. Gun culture comes from people wanting a possibility to protect themselves in many situations, regardless of what happens...
I agree, I honestly think the guy with the gun was full of it, but I'm not going to point fingers. If you carry a concealed weapon, it's supposed to concealed. Here this guy goes, showing off his piece to a bunch of presumed strangers, in a public venue, after one unhinged dude threatened him. THAT is how things go south, and in a hurry.
Cunning StrikeZada, Hedron Grinder I don't understand why people that want help can't even be bothered to link the card.
And the answer is no, no copies are made, cunning strike has multiple targets, Zada's effect says spells that only target her.
Yikes, so much for a warm welcome. Guys only 2 posts in.
So, I think the old Atarka Red decks are losing enough that this new Landfall build is a decent direction to head. I will lay out my personal opinions right now, I feel like Sword of the Animist is just better than Slab Hammer. Again, these are opinions and I have not tested any of these cards yet so I will learn which will better suit the deck soon enough. I also will be running Undergrowth Champion in my first iteration because I think the card has a lot of potential as the only? card that get's permanent advantage from Landfall. Lastly, I do not feel like Akoum Firebird is worth running in the list. The reanimation cost is just too much to justify it. This is the list I have in mind off the top:
I think that Firecraft is important in this deck as it gives you the late game reach you need, which Undergrowth Champ can also do by just being huge. Going up to the full 12 fetches maaaaay be wrong but I'm not 100% on that right now. Basically running as many fetches as the number of fetchable lands maximizes the Landfall count but it could be a little risky if you mix up your fetching. I think the idea here is to get in for ~10-15 damage before your opponent can stabilize and then finish them off with our direct damage.
It may be a bit underwhelming, but I think Titan's Strength needs to find it's way in here, as well as swell of growth. The scry is relevant, and it Combos with both swell and Atarka's with Prowess triggers. It can put your opponent within Firecrafts spell mastery within reach on turn 3/4. It fuels delve for immense. I'd cut the swords as they just seem to slow for what this deck is bringing to the table. Just a thought.
Intruder Alarm is a fun one too, if you're planning to "go wide" and animate multiple lands. This turns token-creating spells into mana producers, as you repeatedly untap your lands and buff them larger and larger. Novijen Sages and/or Sage of Fables can be used to draw cards off of the counters your Awakening triggers produce. The whole thing then churns together into an engine that digs for kill pieces, likely Time Warp effects to get multiple combats and kill all of your opponents.
Does Intruder alarm even though the lands are already on the battlefield when they become animated?
Edit:Not to clog up thread space, but how does this work with Clone effects?
Edit x2: never mind they are 0/0 and clones would instantly die.
Talrand, Sky Summoner- turns that gitaxian probe into a 5/5 worth of creatures. Best part, with white in his commander identity, I'd run tons of protection spells to protect and churn out tokens/manlands. My new favorite UW general.
I want to know whether Prowess triggers off of cards that grant ALL creatures you control a bonus. I'm thinking this isn't the case, for the same reason you can still kill Hexproof creatures with wrath effects - the creature is in a gray area where it is targeted, but not SPECIFICALLY targeted.
Prowess triggers when you cast a Non-creature spell, it doesn't need to target. It doesn't really matter what the spell does. Briber's Purse, for example, triggers prowess even if cast x=0.
keldon halberdier
glarewielder
ingot chewer
oxida golem
razor golem
Those are just a few that lend to a "if I untap I win" strategy with this beastly woman. You could go all out affinity with artifacts. She needs 9 counters to kill in one swing, won't happen, but 3 on 2 swings is gravy. Add in anthem effects that white has, and instant speed pumps in red, she takes over a game faster than any other Boros General I can think of. I like it already
Edit: Possibilty Storm and knowledge pool seem like they will have incredible synergy with her as well. 2 cast triggers per turn is possible. I like her better that Tajic as it's a tall, rather than wide strategy. White has "flicker" effects to offset removal of the targeted and wrath variety.
Why is it that everybody says "there are much better options than card'x'", but never list said cards? This will see play. It eats the best removal a control deck has to offer, as that is probably the only way you are going to get it off the field. You don't have to sink resources into pumping him. With fetches, it makes this card incredibly hard to do battle math. It's a "build around me card", but it can hold it's own if needed.
I guess the real question isn't if he will be answered or not, it's if you want to waste the removal on him. There isn't much in terms of great removal for this coming standard. It's either really expensive or conditional, and even worse, the best removal is sorcery speed. He seems like a control players nightmare if it resolves.
While it is true that the card spells the effect out clearly, Cunning Strike could absolutely cause some confusion to a newer player. Yes, it states a spell that only targets Zada, but, Strike targets a creature and a player. It could be misconstrued as Zada is still the only target as players life points and creatures are somewhat diffrent. I guess my point was that he only dished out criticism, nothing the noob could take away from it. Could have maybe posted the link to forum rules or the thread itself explaining tags. Some lead, others follow I guess.
I'll hold you to that. FYI, it counters/exiles Hangarback walker, all flip-walkers, all creature based ramp, most Allies, most ingest creatures, deathmist raptor and a handful of processors. Oh, and it's processor fuel. Unconditionally countering and exiling those cards is insane. I agree there are better options, but they don't exist in this standard.
Edit:explain how card less than 4cmc aren't countered again? Because all of those cards you listed are, as well as morph creatures.
I agree, I honestly think the guy with the gun was full of it, but I'm not going to point fingers. If you carry a concealed weapon, it's supposed to concealed. Here this guy goes, showing off his piece to a bunch of presumed strangers, in a public venue, after one unhinged dude threatened him. THAT is how things go south, and in a hurry.
Yikes, so much for a warm welcome. Guys only 2 posts in.
It may be a bit underwhelming, but I think Titan's Strength needs to find it's way in here, as well as swell of growth. The scry is relevant, and it Combos with both swell and Atarka's with Prowess triggers. It can put your opponent within Firecrafts spell mastery within reach on turn 3/4. It fuels delve for immense. I'd cut the swords as they just seem to slow for what this deck is bringing to the table. Just a thought.
Apologies, missed the "Token producing spells" part.
Does Intruder alarm even though the lands are already on the battlefield when they become animated?
Edit:Not to clog up thread space, but how does this work with Clone effects?
Edit x2: never mind they are 0/0 and clones would instantly die.
Prowess triggers when you cast a Non-creature spell, it doesn't need to target. It doesn't really matter what the spell does. Briber's Purse, for example, triggers prowess even if cast x=0.