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Magic Market Index for July 13th, 2018
 
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  • posted a message on Random Card of the Day: Thermopod
    Quote from Forgotten One »
    I use Tradewind Rider in Vorel as a way tap Gilder Bairn so I can use his untap ability (along with Opposition, Vigean Graftmage, and Rishkar, Peema Renegade).


    That is an incredibly fair use, and admittedly, not one I’ve ever thought of. Cool. RCoTD strikes again!
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Serra Ascendant needs to be banned
    Quote from Kangodo »
    Quote from JWK »
    If a T1 Serra Ascendant is dominating games on a regular basis, the other players must really not be trying.

    I have two mono-white decks. SA didn't make the cut for either one of them. I considered it briefly for Sram, but decided it would be an absolutely terrible draw in that deck - vastly worse than drawing another Plains - after around turn 4, which is when it is drawn the vast majority of the time. The two decks I do play it in are both full of ways to gain life, and even there it's not a particularly good draw after the first few turns.

    Just because it's not an issue at your table doesn't mean it's not an issue for other groups.


    Does the reverse not apply to you and your groups?
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Random Card of the Day: Thermopod
    Quote from tstorm823 »
    Tradewind Rider


    The flavor text seems to be directly telling me to bounce everyone's lands with this card.


    Ugh... don’t even get me started. It’s playing against cards like these that teach you very valuable deckbuilding skills.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on So, Pelakka Wurm is a rare...
    Um... read what you're quoting a little closer. Avatar of Might isn't being called laughable, Terastodon is. And Terastodon isn't being called laughable because it's bad, but because it's too good (and also encourages land destruction, which Wizards doesn't like to print much if any of any more). The text you're quoting isn't saying Avatar of Might is a better choice for the set than Pelakka Wurm, it's saying Avatar of Might is a stronger card than Pelakka Wurm, and putting it into this limited environment instead would be a bad thing.


    I knew exactly what he was stating and what I meant. Yes I was referring to Terastodon. So a 8 cmc land destruction card (with a big drawback mind you, giving 3 3/3 creatures, is going to break down limited to the point of destruction? Baloney. Hey and it might give you a use to play that Crucible of Worlds you pulled that would be useless any other way. I can't debate with someone who is so staunch on their stance. We have to agree to disagree and move on.

    The vast majority of players are casuals who probably don't even know the wurm was upshifted so they can't be angry


    Their ignorance and naiveté won't save them later when they try to trade a worthless Pelakka Wurm and nobody takes them up on it. Then they try to trade it for store credit and get laughed out of the building. Their feel bad moment is just a delayed one, but its going to be a feel bad moment plain and simple.

    The card should have stayed at Uncommon. Pulling 2 or 3 in the 6 packs in your Pre-release is highly unlikely. On top of that you have to be able to ramp to play it at any decent speed as well.

    I don't understand while some players think Wizards can't do anything wrong. Businesses must just love to see consumers with such blind faith and devotion glazing their eyes over so they can do just about anything. So again, I have to leave at agree to disagree and we move on. I'll let others take up the torch if they want.


    Agree to disagree would be that you both have valid, but differing opinions. To say that a Terastodon would not ruin Limited is just so uninformed, it’s really a slap in the face, considering you don’t play it anyways.(So, wheat exactly are you basing your opinions off of again? Certainly isn’t personal experience). That’s why I say it’s “complaining”. It’s not logical or informed, it’s just mind numbing hate. They upshifted an uncommon, HOW DARE THEY! I won’t be buying the packs, or be playing with the cards, but HOW DARE THEY!

    If at the end of the day, Pelakka Wurm being upshifted causes you to “lose faith” in a company and prevents you from buying their product(which you said you weren’t going to anyways... this just make sure me LOL every time) then, bye? Another will replace you, it’s not like the games survived 25+ years or anything. What I hate is consumers who think their individual opinion somehow matters. It’s a collective, and so far, you’re numbers are pretty underwhelming.

    On top of that you have to be able to ramp to play it at any decent speed as well.


    You mean like this? In a common slot? Dude, stop.

    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on So, Pelakka Wurm is a rare...
    Try not to mix different issues together or compare them against each other what is worse.

    The solution is to avoid all of them, not blame each problem with the other to somehow "justify" them and just keep the problem.

    NO for real, avoid problems and find solutions.

    ----

    Ofcourse there are cards so terrible in Limited that they are borderline unplayable.


    These cards are always annoying to have in Limited.

    A card that is flat out unplayable is always a bad moment. If the card at least does something in constructed, thats something.
    But that issue will always be true as long as Limited and Constructed cards are in the same product.

    They could ofcourse sell boosters with constructed cards and boosters with Limited card (which are flat out worse, but cheaper, as they are for draft / limited).

    ----

    As long as cards are mixed , you will always have the odd unplayable cards in your pool, which is a major downside, but its also fundamentally tied to the booster business model and will most likely never change (but we still get non-randomized product like Commander decks that are massively successful, and for casual players thats a much better payout).

    ----



    The Pelakka Wurm issue however has nothing to do with opening crap rares.

    Its not even a bad card at all in a vacuum, but there still is the fact that its upshifted from uncommon to rare.

    So the entire topic is about if you think upshifting upcommons to rare is "good" or "acceptable" ; or outright an insult to collectors and fans.
    I side by the later, thats why i so deeply hate this reprint and everytime i see it.

    Its the same deal with a rares upshifted to mythic, if they are absolutely worthless ; the existence of Tree of Redemption is a meme and shops even promoted a special deal with that abomination of a stupidity (like open a Tree and get a new Booster for free, right in the store immediately).

    Upshifting cards is just always terrible, outside of very few exceptions of expensive cards from the past ; when rarity was pretty much not a real thing (namely Force of Will, Mana Drain and friends). Nobody will argue against any of them, but it should be obvisious to anyone that thats not the issue of something like Pelakka Wurm.


    ----

    Simply imagine they printed a different card, somewhat equal to the wurm (and no, not a direct 1to1 copy with a different name, thats just "almost" as terrible and pretty much on the same level of stupidity of R&D).

    A new card might be equally good or bad as the reprint, but AT LEAST its a new card, so its already strictly superior to a reprint in the same rarity ; but if you upshift the rarity, it will only upset people badly.
    There is pretty much nobody that says "I like that they upshifted Pelakka Wurm to rare" , and if there is, i call that person downright insane and they should slap themselves for that (seriously, who actively enjoys getting handed crap and then turns to call that a great present, cmon, have some dignity).

    ----

    Is it the end of the world ?

    No.

    But its something they pull from time to time and it should never happen at all, as it simply has only downsides of making people seriously angry about it.


    This should be requisite reading for this thread. Well thought out and well presented. Thank you. Smile

    And I like the idea of draft/limited packs vs. constructed/casual to competitive. Would solve a lot of problems.


    A requisite for quoting others should be that you actually read what you are quoting, as Lithl pointed out.

    What’s funny is that actually proves my point. In your “emotional” state, you are immune to logic and reason(which is exactly what I laid out, and you failed to read correctly) and are just complaining because you don’t like it, not because they’re wrong.

    Also, I’d say you’re numbers are backwards. The 1% is you(and your followers here). I’ve been into a half dozen or so shops since M19 was spoiled, this has never been brought up. Not during limited games, not during FNM, not during 4+ hour commander sessions, not once. So, I’d say you’re in the minority here, ecspecially since you’ve gone on record for not drafting or participating in standard. To which I say, why the hell does it matter to you?
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on So, Pelakka Wurm is a rare...
    Quote from WizardMN »
    I'd take either one of those cards in a heartbeat over PW. Sure they will suck in Draft, but I'm looking longer term. I see 6 and 8 bucks respectively vs. 1 buck currently. Possible fringe play down the line in an Eternal format as well. I see the for draft aspect, I just don't think it should seemingly be defaulted to always.
    Which is, of course, the issue with this discussion and the way it has gone so far. This may be true for *you*. I am willing to accept that this may even be true for a majority of competitive players. My experience, as well as others in this thread, show that in a limited format, this card is good. It is not worth money, but honestly, 5 of my 7 rares were not worth anything in my sealed pool (luckily I opened an Ajani). I would have liked my promo to be a bomb instead of a useless card. I would have liked to have a card that made my pool better. I did not make money on my sealed pool with the promo I had. If I had a Wurm, I would not have either. However, with the Wurm, maybe my pool would have been good enough to go 3-1 or 4-0 which means I could then have made money on the prizes.

    I am not suggesting that your complaints and concerns as not valid in the terms of Pack EV or value in a sealed pool. However, when you say thing like "100% feel bad" this suggests that you are entirely focused on one aspect of a set: the value in packs. And this is not what everyone is looking for. Not everyone opens packs for value. Some want to play the game. And some want to play the game via the Draft or Sealed formats and do well. Bombs like this allow those players to do well and putting it at rare allows that without warping the limited environment.

    Also:

    Way more people crack packs for fun/casual/collectibility than those that are cracked to draft


    This is more accurate. Way more packs are cracked for fun and by casual players than will ever be opened by limited players *or* collectors. The latter already know cracking packs will not get them what they want; they just buy the cards. The former are a group of players that nowhere near rivals that of casual players. And, I would reiterate what I said a bunch of posts back: a casual, for fun, player who just wants to play the game will most likely have no issue opening this as their rare. I have taught a number of people how to play and one in particular immediately gravitated to the Pelakka Wurm that was part of the cards I gave them. They had no concern of the value of their cards; they just wanted to play. And Wurm is enticing to play with.


    Okay, I'll capitulate a bit. How about 99% feels bad?

    They could have put Worldspine Wurm or Craterhoof Behemoth at lowered rarity in that slot instead. And if not those how about Avatar of Might or Terastodon staying at rare. Would have hit the big green Timmy card for draft/limited AND provided a more valuable reprint for those in constructed. Or how about just designing a NEW big green creature and printing it in that slot. One that could hit the draft diehards but also be of possible use the 99% of the rest of playership. I'm not letting Wizards off the hook on this one and many are willing to give them a pass on these poor decisions when it comes to value and/or constructed playability.

    I hear what you say and agree with part of it. Just because its right for a tiny sliver of playership doesn't make it right for the MAJORITY of playership. It should have been left at uncommon, period. I've got to leave it at that.


    If there is a group that is a “tiny sliver”, it’s those complaining about this. There are far more who people who don’t care and understand than there are those complaining.

    Want to talk about feel bad? Ever open a Masters booster? Or how about building a standard deck?

    And I have a huge problem with this-

    They could have put Worldspine Wurm or Craterhoof Behemoth at lowered rarity in that slot instead. And if not those how about Avatar of Might or Terastodon staying at rare.


    As an owner of the former, I’d be pissed. First, they are pricey, and printing at rare would kill their worth. I pulled a CHB in a $7 Masters pack, bigger feel bad than Pelakka Wurm at rare, by a mile. Also, both would be limited warping bombs, and probably be really good in Standard. So, because you didnt get any other worthless bin rare, you’d prefer they Warp two of their primary formats? Does that even sound like a logical exchange? Of the cards listed, Avatar of Might would probably be the safest(Terastodon is out of the question, and just laughable as a suggestion, sorry), but still better than Wurm, which is a problem.

    Also, this was in the PW deck. So, you’d easily have a group of whiners complaining that the PW deck got a good rare and wizards is screwing the playerbase by forcing them to buy that product.

    If this thread proves anything, it’s that people as a whole will never be pleased, and they complain about anything.

    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Random Card of the Day: Thermopod
    Quote from plushpenguin »
    I also think that Exquisite Blood's effect is also significantly better as a standalone effect.


    This is exactly why. Give everything lifelink? Thank you. I’d say it would be too hard to balance, it’s just a really good effect.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Serra Ascendant needs to be banned
    Quote from Kangodo »
    Quote from LouCypher »

    What kind of meta do you play in where a T1 Serra Ascendant will always dominate the game? Cause I'd like to play there.

    The kind of meta where most people play in. Don't you ever read posts from the RC?


    Well, no, you don’t. It was proven on the page prior. The RC doesn’t agree with your assesment, so you can’t play in a meta like theirs.

    Also, banlist update! Unsurprisingly no changes, because the games in a good spot, even with Serra Ascendant. So, again, what kind of meta do you play in?
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Random Card of the Day: Thermopod
    Quote from tstorm823 »
    Marsh Crocodile


    One from the old creatures that are really spells. I've never used this card, but I could imagine it being neat.


    Best part is that you can stack the triggers for the best outcome. I mean, this ones pretty straight forward, “nullify” the discard by having that resolve before the bounce.

    I had good times with Sawtooth Loon, and it’s in the king of bounce colors. I always wanted to jam Shivan Wurm, but it just wasn’t enough oomph to make the cut anywhere. These early cycles is what really got me interested in EDH. I actually played this in a Sygg, River cutthroat deck. Was primarily Bloodchief Ascesion Mindcrank combo, no tutors, pretty budget as it was a very early build.(may have been one of my first).

    Either way, it’s a bit outclassed now, but it’s an efficient body with a surprisingly “scales to multi-player” ability. Pretty bad on an empty board, unless you are looking to do what Sire of Insanity does, with extra steps lol.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Serra Ascendant needs to be banned
    Quote from Kangodo »
    Quote from LouCypher »
    Except it's no issue at all. It's just the most efficient beatstick in EDH in the weakest single colour of EDH in a format where efficient beatsticks usually aren't where you want to be.
    Well, people clearly disagree. That is why it keeps coming up all the time.
    And clearly Wizards disagrees too, seeing as they changed the wording of these type of cards in new sets.


    The spin job here would make even mix master Mike’s head spin.

    Good thing wizards doesn’t run the banned list then, considering the people that do, disagree with you.

    For reference.

    Quote from papa_funk »
    Serra Ascendant absolutely hits the "interacts problematically with the format" criteria. It is a card that gets a lot better because of the special rules associated with Commander.

    That doesn't get it banned, though. It just gets it a lot more scrutiny. Ultimately, the interaction isn't all that problematic. Opponent life totals are also higher, so a 6/6 on turn 1 isn't the end of the world. What usually ends up happening is that it gets in for a couple hits, eats some removal, and the controller is now a target. As a later draw, it's actively bad if you've been dropped under 30 life.

    The rules of Commander elevate it to "good card," but there are lots of good cards.
    Posted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
  • posted a message on Random Card of the Day: Thermopod
    Quote from ChazA4 »
    Hm...not liking it. It almost demands that you overcaat it to prevent the second half from screwing its boardwipe potential. That adds potential for shenanigans, but...maybe my more learned colleagues can come up with something for this.


    It’s almost like a color shifted Icy Blast with kill potential? Like, the tap clause is interesting in that you could eliminate blockers by choosing a common toughness to tap them down if they want to keep them but don’t care about an alpha strike? I honestly have no idea, the two abilities seem to clash with each other quite a bit.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Random Card of the Day: Thermopod
    Quote from Weebo »
    Quote from Buffsam89 »
    She’s best used as a combo engine, but I hate combo. However, with all of the legendary support, I think I can finally build that pure value deck.

    Great card for the great format.
    She's been able to support a pure value deck for a while. You just have to convince the rest of the table that you're not playing combo or stax.



    +1 here. The value engine though was a bit underwhelming at first, but with Historic, the “value” really had a payoff now.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on Random Card of the Day: Thermopod
    She’s best used as a combo engine, but I hate combo. However, with all of the legendary support, I think I can finally build that pure value deck.

    Great card for the great format.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on So, Pelakka Wurm is a rare...
    It’s a power house in limited. Think of it like this “Sorry that you opened this worthless rare, but here, take these wins and free stuff as a consolation prize!”.

    Seriously though, it was going to be a bulk rare anyway, so why does it even matter?
    Posted in: Magic General
  • posted a message on Random Card of the Day: Thermopod
    Wolfcaller's Howl is a lot better in my opinion. Cheaper and more tokens.


    Eh, but gets considerably worse the longer the game goes.

    Now, think this, then Sire of Insanity. Should be 3 tokes per spin.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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