one question, if you are using Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire abiltiy and flip a It that betrays from the top of the deck, do the permanents of my opponents that were sacrificed with Vaevictis, are returned under my control with it that betrays the same turn? or do i have to sit a whole turn with vaevictis and it that betrays in the battlefield
The ability states "each player who sacrificed a permanent this way" in a separate sentence. I think the permanent has to be gone already for the trigger so It That Betrays doesn't see the permanent leave.
I would usually win after hitting Breach, Purification or Cataclysm. With cards like Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Karmic Guide, and Ashen Rider in the graveyard I would start removing people's lands. With Hokori, Dust Drinker, I would stop them from untapping. Or I would simply rebuild more quickly with Solemn Simulacrum or Kor Cartographer with a sac outlet.
It had a good win ratio, but once a couple of more competitive players left the group I retired the deck because it was not interactive enough or fun for other players. So just wanted to share my version in case you think it would be something you would want to try with your playgroup.
Gashnaw, you started of saying "not really" then I think your MTG-brain took over and you couldn't help suggesting cards
Honestly, I think with green and black it is maybe easier to manipulate your own topdeck than with blue. Mirri's Guile, Sylvan Library, Volrath's Stronghold, Mortuary, Reclaim and its two near-functional reprints, Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, as well as the 3 or 4 "play with top card revealed" and you are set.
What hurts for not having blue is checking your opponents topdecks. But that is the kind of oppressive control that would make VV2 an even bigger target, so personally I am avoiding it. There are a couple of solutions that opponents' topdecks, but not having blue does hurt. It also makes it more balanced, though
problem with Vaevictis is you have to choose all, not up to all. If it was a may, i would love him, but he is not and thus i am not super eager to grab a copy. Sure I want one, but I do not need one. (Finding a slot in my dragon deck will also be near impossible, Took me an hour to remove Lotus Petal for Palladia-mors.
Yeah, that's what makes the card fun. He will always be good if people have real threats on the board, but if they don't you "may" end up helping them.
Personally, I will be playing him without seeing my opponent's top cards, to add a little more fun into the mix; people love wondering what they will get from cards like this.
But over-all, this topic is for brewing, not for criticizing the card's usability :/
Do you have any cards in mind that would help negate the perceived drawback of his ability?
I am absolutely in love with Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage. Waiting until you have as much information from your opponent's turns before playing cards is amazing.
It turns a deck that, on paper, seems good but not great, into a powerhouse. Of all my decks ever, it probably has the highest win percentage, yet people rarely complain about it being too strong. It has good cards but nothing that people can point to as being too annoying (except once with Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite on the field at the same time as Avacyn, Angel of Hope).
I cannot recommend enough at least trying a version of the deck. And what is nice is that the pool of cards that work with Raff is huge.
Rancor - For one mana, always have something to sacrifice! Aspect of Mongoose - Similar to Rancor, but protects your commander while it's on. Tendershoot Dryad - One of the best token generators, and a possible win condition on its own.
I didn't notice until now that Imperial Seal isn't listed.
It is quite pricey but there is the foil one that is a bit more down to earth in terms of price.
Also, Hua Tuo, Honored Physician can fix up your library's first card. Not sure why I didn't think of it before.
While I love the concept of what you guys are brewing, there are a lot of cards being discussed here that don’t do much or anything on their own. However you end up building it, beware too not make it a glass cannon that does not work without VV2.
Also surprises no one mentioned It That Betrays yet. If there’s one card that combo’s with VV2 it’s that
Hmm, maybe something like Call of the Wild and/or Zoologist in case VV2 is too expensive to cast? They only work for creatures but that may be fine.
Also, if VV2 dies, he can be Reclaimed to the top then put back into play for 4 mana
Also, now that I think of it, Command Beacon would be great in this.
I do like It That Betrays, especially since it can be cheated out for very little mana. It's so rare it can get used efficiently in EDH, I find, but for Vaevictis it may work really well.
These are ones I'm considering for mine. Let me know what you think. Hope they help!
-False Mourning - Sorcery speed Reclaim.
-Awakening Zone - Mana acceleration, then fodder to sac to Vaevictis.
-Haunted Crossroads - Volrath's Stronghold's effect as an enchantment.
-Tel-Jilad Justice - Artifact removal with Scry.
-Conch Horn - a total of 3 colorless mana to draw 2 cards then put one from your hand back to the top of your library. A nice set up for Vaevictis if you don't have Scroll Rack out yet.
-Mortuary - Not sure how good this would be, but one can even put Vaevictis itself on top of the library and cast it again the next turn for 6. Plus, the usual shenanigans of stacking your library.
-Ugin's Nexus - Jund time warp!
-Viridian Revel - Get rid of your opponents artifacts to draw cards. May depend on the local meta.
-Grim Flayer - Can help set up the top cards of your library.
It is a very fun deck to play and is very counter-intuitive to how one usually plays the game. When the decks works just right it is a joy to see in action. People also usually left me alone because I was "helping" them
A little while ago I made a deck where the point was to give creatures to my opponents.
I had cards to punish people for having creatures, but over-all it was very casual, and quite different to play.
Also, good for a budget brew.
Very different from what I would have done. I was thinking of going with cards that boost power but are not necessarily Elf-related (just to do something different).
You went the more traditional route so I'm not sure you would need much help since Elf EDH Tribal is a "tried, tested and true" deck.
If ever do you feel like adding a couple of alternative cards, I would suggest:
EDIT: I totally forgot to suggest Heroic Intervention, Creeping Renaissance and Grave Sifter They can save you from a board wipe, which is quite often an Elf deck's doom. Maybe not all three, but any two of them and you can endure those Damnations, Wrath of Gods etc.
The only vehicle I play in my version is Weatherlight, because it needs 3 power (perfect for Raff), flies, and digs 5 cards deep for more spells.
Have you tried Weatherlight, Iansisle?
The other vehicles leave something to be desired, at least in this deck. In a King Macar deck, however...
The ability states "each player who sacrificed a permanent this way" in a separate sentence. I think the permanent has to be gone already for the trigger so It That Betrays doesn't see the permanent leave.
Wrath of God, Damnation, Day's Judgment, Akroma's Vengeance, Merciless Eviction, Austere Command, Razia's Purification, Cataclysm,
Retribution of the Meek, Anguished Unmaking, Utter End, Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Wear//Tear, Vandalblast, Mortify, Dimensional Breach.
I would usually win after hitting Breach, Purification or Cataclysm. With cards like Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Karmic Guide, and Ashen Rider in the graveyard I would start removing people's lands. With Hokori, Dust Drinker, I would stop them from untapping. Or I would simply rebuild more quickly with Solemn Simulacrum or Kor Cartographer with a sac outlet.
It had a good win ratio, but once a couple of more competitive players left the group I retired the deck because it was not interactive enough or fun for other players. So just wanted to share my version in case you think it would be something you would want to try with your playgroup.
Honestly, I think with green and black it is maybe easier to manipulate your own topdeck than with blue. Mirri's Guile, Sylvan Library, Volrath's Stronghold, Mortuary, Reclaim and its two near-functional reprints, Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, as well as the 3 or 4 "play with top card revealed" and you are set.
What hurts for not having blue is checking your opponents topdecks. But that is the kind of oppressive control that would make VV2 an even bigger target, so personally I am avoiding it. There are a couple of solutions that opponents' topdecks, but not having blue does hurt. It also makes it more balanced, though
Yeah, that's what makes the card fun. He will always be good if people have real threats on the board, but if they don't you "may" end up helping them.
Personally, I will be playing him without seeing my opponent's top cards, to add a little more fun into the mix; people love wondering what they will get from cards like this.
But over-all, this topic is for brewing, not for criticizing the card's usability :/
Do you have any cards in mind that would help negate the perceived drawback of his ability?
I see what you did there -.-
It turns a deck that, on paper, seems good but not great, into a powerhouse. Of all my decks ever, it probably has the highest win percentage, yet people rarely complain about it being too strong. It has good cards but nothing that people can point to as being too annoying (except once with Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite on the field at the same time as Avacyn, Angel of Hope).
I cannot recommend enough at least trying a version of the deck. And what is nice is that the pool of cards that work with Raff is huge.
Rancor - For one mana, always have something to sacrifice!
Aspect of Mongoose - Similar to Rancor, but protects your commander while it's on.
Tendershoot Dryad - One of the best token generators, and a possible win condition on its own.
It is quite pricey but there is the foil one that is a bit more down to earth in terms of price.
Also, Hua Tuo, Honored Physician can fix up your library's first card. Not sure why I didn't think of it before.
Hmm, maybe something like Call of the Wild and/or Zoologist in case VV2 is too expensive to cast? They only work for creatures but that may be fine.
Also, if VV2 dies, he can be Reclaimed to the top then put back into play for 4 mana
Also, now that I think of it, Command Beacon would be great in this.
I do like It That Betrays, especially since it can be cheated out for very little mana. It's so rare it can get used efficiently in EDH, I find, but for Vaevictis it may work really well.
-False Mourning - Sorcery speed Reclaim.
-Awakening Zone - Mana acceleration, then fodder to sac to Vaevictis.
-Haunted Crossroads - Volrath's Stronghold's effect as an enchantment.
-Tel-Jilad Justice - Artifact removal with Scry.
-Conch Horn - a total of 3 colorless mana to draw 2 cards then put one from your hand back to the top of your library. A nice set up for Vaevictis if you don't have Scroll Rack out yet.
-Mortuary - Not sure how good this would be, but one can even put Vaevictis itself on top of the library and cast it again the next turn for 6. Plus, the usual shenanigans of stacking your library.
-Ugin's Nexus - Jund time warp!
-Viridian Revel - Get rid of your opponents artifacts to draw cards. May depend on the local meta.
-Grim Flayer - Can help set up the top cards of your library.
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/war-riders-in-the-sky/
It is a very fun deck to play and is very counter-intuitive to how one usually plays the game. When the decks works just right it is a joy to see in action. People also usually left me alone because I was "helping" them
I had cards to punish people for having creatures, but over-all it was very casual, and quite different to play.
Also, good for a budget brew.
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/war-riders-in-the-sky/
You went the more traditional route so I'm not sure you would need much help since Elf EDH Tribal is a "tried, tested and true" deck.
If ever do you feel like adding a couple of alternative cards, I would suggest:
Stoneforge Masterwork
Pennon Blade
Wolfir Silverheart
Verdurous Gearhulk
Blackblade Reforged
EDIT: I totally forgot to suggest Heroic Intervention, Creeping Renaissance and Grave Sifter They can save you from a board wipe, which is quite often an Elf deck's doom. Maybe not all three, but any two of them and you can endure those Damnations, Wrath of Gods etc.
Have you tried Weatherlight, Iansisle?
The other vehicles leave something to be desired, at least in this deck. In a King Macar deck, however...
EDIT: NVM, it's in your decklist >_>