What's up everyone. While shadow (at least the grixis variant) is on a downtick at the moment I feel like the deck will be primed for success after some possible BnR announcements shake up the metagame once again.
Because the future (of both modern and mtgs) is unknown feel free to continue the conversation over at discord, where if you feel like grixis is not at the best meta placement you can ask around about other variants of the deck.
For modern UB shadow I agree with geneyquakes. There's always cards like Slip Through Space or Rite of Consumption but imo you're better off just playing more grindy cards instead. I still think that since you want 5 shocks you might as well splash for some cards that include red like EE and Kommand you mentioned. Even if your deck is heavy UB you can still splash for a few red cards because the cost to do so is rather low.
Modern is a very different beast from legacy so trying to port that deck here won't net you the same results. The last straight UB shadow list I saw in modern was when Ben Jones tried tinkering with Mausoleum Secrets.
Has anyone tested Eidolon of the great revel in this deck? Or claim//fame?
Are these cards effective with any builds?
Eidolon of the great revel isn't partiularly too good in our deck since we already have enough ways to deal ourself life. But not so much just that the actual sweet spot tend to be around 9 life meaning we want to lose life to around 8 or 9 as fast as we can and then stop asap (unless we're in pure race matchups). Eidolon isn't particularly great in either case because we cannot stop the bleeding and if we want to race we have to take off an entire turn of ours to cast it which will cost us.
Claim//fame I think was tested as soon as it came out by people and pros and the consensus was that it simply was not good enough. It is too low impact of a card as it only really hits shadow which is 4 cards and hitting snap isn't all that great. I've heard that it can be decent in Traverse Shadow though since they do have 8-9 targets in their lists but even then I don't think they really play it. Kolaghan's Command does a similar thing while being a much more general card that answers a variety of things and can come in against both grindy and combo matchups.
Hi guys on want to hit the GPPrague and one of the choice is Death Shadow, I'm actually playing this list (I won't list the sideboard since I want to focus on main deck)
I'm thinking deeply about:
- changing Mishra for Opt or other cantrip
- faithless looting speed up the gurmag angler.. but its devasting for you hand
- mutagenetic growth will be use full to get a death shadow from the bin
What do you think? This build could good with the actual meta
I've been on serum almost all this time but I know someone else on a 4 bauble 2 looting build and he'd been loving it and having great success with it. I'd give it a shot. If you want opts you can try adding 1-2 extra copies of it as well (I think he cut snapcaster mage for them). I will most likely be trying them out this weekend (and his crazy sideboard which cuts Lavamancers all together)
Looting can be devastating to the hand but it's only a 2 of, and is so good in the mid-late game. And sometimes if you gotta do what you gotta do for the turn 2 angler.
I've also tried crazy builds of this deck with Monastery Swiftspear and Mutagenic Growth as a way to add more threats since that's this deck's biggest weakness. Simply put, don't do it lol. It really isn't consistent enough and if you want to run Mute growth just play Zooicide it's the much better shell for it.
Nihil is okay and slows them down a bit while also relacing itself. The card I've heard Mardu players say they do not want to face is Leyline of the Void since it really shuts down a lot of their value plan (Looting and souls become mediocre, 2 of Kommand's modes are dead, and Reveler is nigh uncastable).
Greetings from the other side! We recently created a death's shadow discord server mainly for modern decks. It's welcome to all shadow players so feel free to join if you want another place to discuss your shadow decks and strategies with.
So I'm a Blue Moon player, but I'm considering buying into GDS as it seems extremely fun and has game against a lot of the field. I came to ask two questions, if I may:
1) Are there any recommended articles or videos I could check out to really get into how to play this deck? I have played against GDS maybe 5 times at FNM and on MTGO, so I don't have a ton of exposure to it.
2) Would GDS be a good second deck to add to my arsenal? Does it have as much game against the field as it seems, or are those results from people who know the deck inside and out?
Keep in mind Ben and Magnus have different philosophies about how they play the deck but it's still something to keep in mind. Actually a lot of players have different ways they play the deck like for instance I refuse to play the card Mishra's Bauble in any of my lists and I like playing more copies of Temur Battle Rage in the side. One you get to test more you will get a feel for what you like and what you don't.
As for it being "good" or not that really just depends on the metagame. Previously it has not been kind to GDS at all, with pilots needing to get relatively lucky on the side of pairings because the majority of the GP and PT metas have been fairly hostile. However with the rise of a new deck, Bridgevine (River Styxx) the format may become faster to race with this deck and as a result decks like Infect, Storm, Shoal and so on may see a resurgence. All of those decks are an even to favorable matchup for GDS so it is a good sign going forward. Still since you seem to own quite a few pieces of overlap this doesn't seem like a bad deck to buy into.
Oh yeah and I know I've been saying this for a while but play a 3rd TBR in your side. Card is straight gas.
TBR has been treating me very well so far. Which matchups you bring in the third copy for?
JaceBooty was already alluding to this when he said: Tron and various non-interactive combo decks like Valakut, Storm, KCI and so on. But the beatuty in TBR is that it helps you steal games against some of your bad-worst matchups. Boggles, burn, affinity, Eldrazi decks, humans, dredge and Hollow One. Also fun thing to note is that the Bolt + TBR combo can still be cast even after an opponent lands a Blood Moon, which I thought was lights out for me.
It's only bad/awkward against grindy decks but the majority of those have fallen off the radar except for UWx and Mardu, which is why I was asking how to side against them.
So I'm curious what your guys' view and plans on siding for the following matchups:
Mardu Pyromancer
UWR Control
UW Control
I've seen a lot of debate about what people want to bring in/keep. I've heard arguments for keeping in TBR for all of these matchups because it's your "Splinter Twin" get out of jail free card. I guess most specifically for Mardu I was talking to Gerry T about it and he said since our deck is the beatdown he likes keeping them in and foregoing the sweepers. But maybe it's still correct to bring in 1 EE or Anger in case things go south. And mainly for mardu it's a question of what we take out. My guess is some number of spot removal spells and a Street Wraith or 2 but Street Wraith doesn't seem all that bad since it is a 3/4 with unblockable. A couple of those did help me win my match against it.
For the UWR and UW I've heard some say they take out scours and Anglers along with a couple removal spells to bring in grind cards. It's weird because you want bolts for the Planeswalkers and Push/Dismember for Colonnades so you can't completely cut either. But I'd say cut Dismember against UWR since the life is more precious and cut Push against UW since dismember can kill the Gideons. Street Wraith can also be hardcast in these games as a threat if the games tend to go long a bit, but UWR can close games fast with bolts and UW has the mana denial package so it's probably a lot harder for these to steal games than against Mardu.
The UWx matchups seem brutal for the bauble versions of this deck since they can't run YP but like before the best way to steal games is to just seize to oblivion, slam shadows and hold up stubby d until you get there.
I'm still one of the proponents for Serum and it's because of the prevalence of these decks that I still want it. Also because of the 3 easiest ways this deck just loses - Mana screw and flood (although these happen with every deck so take that for what it's worth) and not drawing a threat. Also why I added a couple lootings.
Oh yeah and I know I've been saying this for a while but play a 3rd TBR in your side. Card is straight gas.
Haha, that Spellskite idea sure is wild. Just redirect every single spell being cast to it and TBR for the win.
I found out you don't even need a spell to be cast. You can just crack a fetch, pay a bunch of life and then TBR them. It's crazy. More than likely a little too cute, and spellskite doesn't help against combo decks like Stubby D does, but something really cool I thought I would point out in case anyone wanted to try it out.
My friends told me to run a couple of these in the main event but I didn't believe them. Maybe I should have tried them out lol.
went 1-2 with Ben Friedman's GP list tonight (lost to mirror, jeskai, beat bogles 2-0). the list seems to be fine, just need to practice getting used to looting & not having opts
I believe the UWR matchup is harder for the friedman list since he doesn't (and really can't) run Young Peezy. That card is nuts in that matchup and I would not have won a match against that deck if I didn't have them. That's really my big issue with that list. I can see how bauble acts like a pseudo opt if you prefer to play with that, but yeah that's rough.
This interaction actually happened 3 times that weekend. Turning bolt into Become Immense felt incredible. Since the deck's strength against bad matchups is being able to steal games from battle rage, I just thought why not try and go more all in while also having a little bit of protecttion.
My friends told me to play a couple of these before this weekend but it seemed like too much of a meme. Looking at how Ben look at shadow, maybe the inclusion of Spellskite could end up being beneficial. Acts as a stubborn denial half the time and lets us really set up the Shadow kills from nowhere.
Hey guys, it's been a while. I haven't played much magic in the last few months so GP Vegas was the first time I finally got to play. I didn't really like GDS' place in the meta but it's the only decent deck I have so I played it and I think I did alright for myself. I'm pretty tired so I'm just going to write a super mega condensed report of my matches.
R1 - Beat Bogles
45 mins later
R2 - Beat RG Shift
2 hours later
R3 - Beat Hollow One
R4 - Beat Mardu Pyromancer
R5 - Beat UWR Control
R6 - Lost to Mardu Pyromancer
R7 - Lost to Eldrazi Tron
I know Etron is a good matchup but game 2 I kept a hand with a decent hand with some cantrips. I had to fade the chalice for 1 turn but couldn't. Game 3 he kept a hand of: Mine, Mine, Map, Ratchet Bomb, TKS, Ballista, Smasher and Wurmcoil. I seized the Map, countered the ratched bomb but he naturally drew tron. Can't do anything about that lol.
R8 - Lost to Mardu Pyromancer
So yeah now I can tell the story of the time I went 5-0 and didn't make 2 of a GP haha. But all bad beats aside the deck did a lot better than I expected it to and I had a blast playing it. The event itself was pretty scuffed and we did have to wait an extra 3-4ish hours to actually finish the day but I won't get anymore into that than I need to.
My list was pretty much Dylan Donnegan's but swapped the Disdainful Stroke for a Collective Brutality because I expected more burn and tried adding back in a Tasigur for 4th angler. That one was a mistake just play 4 anglers even if you don't run baubles and serums.
Other takeaways:
Temur Battle Rage was an absolute monster all weekend. I had a couple bolt myself TBR you instakills that were reminiscent of Splinter Twin. Highly considering adding a 3rd to the side.
Welcome back Lightning Bolt, it's been a while. A card that can double as a giant growth or removal spell is A+ in my book.
Hardcasting Street Wraith is always fun. I got to cast it around 5 times this weekend and it was awesome.
Young Pyromancer is also a great sideboard card. Wish I had more room to add a 3rd.
Good old 40 card friedman also played the deck and actually topped which is awesome. Not a fan of baubles, never really was but hey different strokes for different folks. Abrade seems really, really well positioned right now and I think I might just swap out my 2 angers for those. Really good call on him for that. His lower land count and lack of Serums (and lack of YP but it makes sense for him to not have any since he's running bauble) have me concerned for his UWR matchups but I saw him take one down anyway.
Despite everything I didn't like about his list, Faithless Looting really intrigues me. I thought about playing this card for a while (I played 2 sleights for quite some time but sleight can't help if you're already flooding) and it seems like it can help shore up some of the consistency issues this deck has. Since it is DA you can't run too many, but it can help so much if flooding or need to find a threat. This deck just treads so much water when it can't actually find the threat to close out the game. That's where Traverse shadow has the edge on us. I'll try and give it a shot though. I just have no idea what to cut to try them out and I'm not going to 17 land or cutting Kommand out of the main.
After experimenting around I'm finally back on Shadow and the deck felt great to play again. I just have a few things to note.
1. Serum vs. Opt. I think this comes down to a playstyle choice honestly, reminding me of the days when the storm camp was divided between playing Faithless Looting and Desperate Ravings. Both have their pros and cons, and I don't necessarily think there is a wrong choice. I'm currently on Serum but that's because I value consistency over everything, especially in a deck like this.
2. The new 16-17 lands versions with Mishra's Bauble. I know a few lists have been doing well with this configuration but this is the choice that I am not a fan of. It was cool to see Ari Lax play a 16 cantrip version last year, but at this point bauble feels too all-in. Extra copies of Sleight/Opt can help dig a little deeper at the cost of some speed, bauble just feels like having too much air in the deck. There's also a few other issues, like the nonbo bauble can have with goyfs if playing dismembers over Terminate/Dreadbores. To me this version feels like it's trying too much to be like a Traverse Shadow list without the threat density so it just ends up feeling super light. Bauble also has some anti-synergy with YP's in the side unlike the extra blue cantrips for what that is worth.
3. There's a chance this deck is just fine and needs to wait for some of the control decks to weed out before it can come back, but if not there's quite a few value cards that can be added to the side to help combat them (and Jund/Pyromancer decks). Options such as more threats (YP and Vendilion Clique), Lilianas, Painful Truths, Rise//Fall and for some super spicy but more than likely far too cute options there's Search for Azcanta as well as Hazoret the Fervent. Traverse shadow decks have been picking it up as a way to really turn the corner super quickly but I have also seen it pop up in UR decks as well. There's times where the deck feels like it is short of threats and Hazoret might be a cool fun-of option to add that enables Ferocious, which both Clique and YP don't. 4 mana is a bit awkward however so it's probably not good enough for the cut but it is something I really want to try out.
Going forward the deck will probably be fine, I just think it's currently in flux with some of it's previous pilots also fiddling around with different decks and current users trying out different configurations of the deck. There's probably some fine line between the bauble versions and the versions trying to go way over the top and shove Jace's in the side with their best Grixis control impression (I don't think this deck needs Jace's). The deck's strength lies in it's ability to play like a control, midrange and combo deck and shift it's gears depending on the matchup. It's almost like a Jack of all trades deck, being able to do several things pretty well but not excellently.
Because the future (of both modern and mtgs) is unknown feel free to continue the conversation over at discord, where if you feel like grixis is not at the best meta placement you can ask around about other variants of the deck.
https://discord.gg/qmz9azP
Modern is a very different beast from legacy so trying to port that deck here won't net you the same results. The last straight UB shadow list I saw in modern was when Ben Jones tried tinkering with Mausoleum Secrets.
Eidolon of the great revel isn't partiularly too good in our deck since we already have enough ways to deal ourself life. But not so much just that the actual sweet spot tend to be around 9 life meaning we want to lose life to around 8 or 9 as fast as we can and then stop asap (unless we're in pure race matchups). Eidolon isn't particularly great in either case because we cannot stop the bleeding and if we want to race we have to take off an entire turn of ours to cast it which will cost us.
Claim//fame I think was tested as soon as it came out by people and pros and the consensus was that it simply was not good enough. It is too low impact of a card as it only really hits shadow which is 4 cards and hitting snap isn't all that great. I've heard that it can be decent in Traverse Shadow though since they do have 8-9 targets in their lists but even then I don't think they really play it. Kolaghan's Command does a similar thing while being a much more general card that answers a variety of things and can come in against both grindy and combo matchups.
I've been on serum almost all this time but I know someone else on a 4 bauble 2 looting build and he'd been loving it and having great success with it. I'd give it a shot. If you want opts you can try adding 1-2 extra copies of it as well (I think he cut snapcaster mage for them). I will most likely be trying them out this weekend (and his crazy sideboard which cuts Lavamancers all together)
Looting can be devastating to the hand but it's only a 2 of, and is so good in the mid-late game. And sometimes if you gotta do what you gotta do for the turn 2 angler.
I've also tried crazy builds of this deck with Monastery Swiftspear and Mutagenic Growth as a way to add more threats since that's this deck's biggest weakness. Simply put, don't do it lol. It really isn't consistent enough and if you want to run Mute growth just play Zooicide it's the much better shell for it.
Nihil is okay and slows them down a bit while also relacing itself. The card I've heard Mardu players say they do not want to face is Leyline of the Void since it really shuts down a lot of their value plan (Looting and souls become mediocre, 2 of Kommand's modes are dead, and Reveler is nigh uncastable).
Greetings from the other side! We recently created a death's shadow discord server mainly for modern decks. It's welcome to all shadow players so feel free to join if you want another place to discuss your shadow decks and strategies with.
Here's the join link:
https://discord.gg/jBsSQMS
Also congrats Jund_Em_in, always awesome to see fellow shadow players doing well.
Here's a few that I have stockpiled, thanks in part to help from others.
Ben Friedman's guide: http://www.starcitygames.com/articles/37401_An-Updated-Guide-To-Deaths-Shadow.html
Magnus Lantto's guide and choices for the PT: https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/9558ol/modern_card_choices_and_sbguide_for_my_pt25a/
Keep in mind Ben and Magnus have different philosophies about how they play the deck but it's still something to keep in mind. Actually a lot of players have different ways they play the deck like for instance I refuse to play the card Mishra's Bauble in any of my lists and I like playing more copies of Temur Battle Rage in the side. One you get to test more you will get a feel for what you like and what you don't.
And one of the best ways to learn a deck is to watch a pro play it (efficiently), here are some feature matches you can try to learn from as well.
vs Mardu Pyromancer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR7VvfxWx2I
vs Humans
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0IkberVIWM
vs KCI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaFgMt3MLvs
vs UW Control
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QsvNdQLLAM
vs Eldrazi Tron
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-ZxUc3TGjA
As for it being "good" or not that really just depends on the metagame. Previously it has not been kind to GDS at all, with pilots needing to get relatively lucky on the side of pairings because the majority of the GP and PT metas have been fairly hostile. However with the rise of a new deck, Bridgevine (River Styxx) the format may become faster to race with this deck and as a result decks like Infect, Storm, Shoal and so on may see a resurgence. All of those decks are an even to favorable matchup for GDS so it is a good sign going forward. Still since you seem to own quite a few pieces of overlap this doesn't seem like a bad deck to buy into.
I had some other people ask as well so I just decided to create one. Everyone is free to join, we'll add more stuff as we go along.
https://discord.gg/jBsSQMS
JaceBooty was already alluding to this when he said: Tron and various non-interactive combo decks like Valakut, Storm, KCI and so on. But the beatuty in TBR is that it helps you steal games against some of your bad-worst matchups. Boggles, burn, affinity, Eldrazi decks, humans, dredge and Hollow One. Also fun thing to note is that the Bolt + TBR combo can still be cast even after an opponent lands a Blood Moon, which I thought was lights out for me.
It's only bad/awkward against grindy decks but the majority of those have fallen off the radar except for UWx and Mardu, which is why I was asking how to side against them.
Mardu Pyromancer
UWR Control
UW Control
I've seen a lot of debate about what people want to bring in/keep. I've heard arguments for keeping in TBR for all of these matchups because it's your "Splinter Twin" get out of jail free card. I guess most specifically for Mardu I was talking to Gerry T about it and he said since our deck is the beatdown he likes keeping them in and foregoing the sweepers. But maybe it's still correct to bring in 1 EE or Anger in case things go south. And mainly for mardu it's a question of what we take out. My guess is some number of spot removal spells and a Street Wraith or 2 but Street Wraith doesn't seem all that bad since it is a 3/4 with unblockable. A couple of those did help me win my match against it.
For the UWR and UW I've heard some say they take out scours and Anglers along with a couple removal spells to bring in grind cards. It's weird because you want bolts for the Planeswalkers and Push/Dismember for Colonnades so you can't completely cut either. But I'd say cut Dismember against UWR since the life is more precious and cut Push against UW since dismember can kill the Gideons. Street Wraith can also be hardcast in these games as a threat if the games tend to go long a bit, but UWR can close games fast with bolts and UW has the mana denial package so it's probably a lot harder for these to steal games than against Mardu.
The UWx matchups seem brutal for the bauble versions of this deck since they can't run YP but like before the best way to steal games is to just seize to oblivion, slam shadows and hold up stubby d until you get there.
I'm still one of the proponents for Serum and it's because of the prevalence of these decks that I still want it. Also because of the 3 easiest ways this deck just loses - Mana screw and flood (although these happen with every deck so take that for what it's worth) and not drawing a threat. Also why I added a couple lootings.
Oh yeah and I know I've been saying this for a while but play a 3rd TBR in your side. Card is straight gas.
I found out you don't even need a spell to be cast. You can just crack a fetch, pay a bunch of life and then TBR them. It's crazy. More than likely a little too cute, and spellskite doesn't help against combo decks like Stubby D does, but something really cool I thought I would point out in case anyone wanted to try it out.
My friends told me to run a couple of these in the main event but I didn't believe them. Maybe I should have tried them out lol.
I believe the UWR matchup is harder for the friedman list since he doesn't (and really can't) run Young Peezy. That card is nuts in that matchup and I would not have won a match against that deck if I didn't have them. That's really my big issue with that list. I can see how bauble acts like a pseudo opt if you prefer to play with that, but yeah that's rough.
R1 - Beat Bogles
45 mins later
R2 - Beat RG Shift
2 hours later
R3 - Beat Hollow One
R4 - Beat Mardu Pyromancer
R5 - Beat UWR Control
R6 - Lost to Mardu Pyromancer
R7 - Lost to Eldrazi Tron
I know Etron is a good matchup but game 2 I kept a hand with a decent hand with some cantrips. I had to fade the chalice for 1 turn but couldn't. Game 3 he kept a hand of: Mine, Mine, Map, Ratchet Bomb, TKS, Ballista, Smasher and Wurmcoil. I seized the Map, countered the ratched bomb but he naturally drew tron. Can't do anything about that lol.
R8 - Lost to Mardu Pyromancer
So yeah now I can tell the story of the time I went 5-0 and didn't make 2 of a GP haha. But all bad beats aside the deck did a lot better than I expected it to and I had a blast playing it. The event itself was pretty scuffed and we did have to wait an extra 3-4ish hours to actually finish the day but I won't get anymore into that than I need to.
My list was pretty much Dylan Donnegan's but swapped the Disdainful Stroke for a Collective Brutality because I expected more burn and tried adding back in a Tasigur for 4th angler. That one was a mistake just play 4 anglers even if you don't run baubles and serums.
Other takeaways:
1. Serum vs. Opt. I think this comes down to a playstyle choice honestly, reminding me of the days when the storm camp was divided between playing Faithless Looting and Desperate Ravings. Both have their pros and cons, and I don't necessarily think there is a wrong choice. I'm currently on Serum but that's because I value consistency over everything, especially in a deck like this.
2. The new 16-17 lands versions with Mishra's Bauble. I know a few lists have been doing well with this configuration but this is the choice that I am not a fan of. It was cool to see Ari Lax play a 16 cantrip version last year, but at this point bauble feels too all-in. Extra copies of Sleight/Opt can help dig a little deeper at the cost of some speed, bauble just feels like having too much air in the deck. There's also a few other issues, like the nonbo bauble can have with goyfs if playing dismembers over Terminate/Dreadbores. To me this version feels like it's trying too much to be like a Traverse Shadow list without the threat density so it just ends up feeling super light. Bauble also has some anti-synergy with YP's in the side unlike the extra blue cantrips for what that is worth.
3. There's a chance this deck is just fine and needs to wait for some of the control decks to weed out before it can come back, but if not there's quite a few value cards that can be added to the side to help combat them (and Jund/Pyromancer decks). Options such as more threats (YP and Vendilion Clique), Lilianas, Painful Truths, Rise//Fall and for some super spicy but more than likely far too cute options there's Search for Azcanta as well as Hazoret the Fervent. Traverse shadow decks have been picking it up as a way to really turn the corner super quickly but I have also seen it pop up in UR decks as well. There's times where the deck feels like it is short of threats and Hazoret might be a cool fun-of option to add that enables Ferocious, which both Clique and YP don't. 4 mana is a bit awkward however so it's probably not good enough for the cut but it is something I really want to try out.
Going forward the deck will probably be fine, I just think it's currently in flux with some of it's previous pilots also fiddling around with different decks and current users trying out different configurations of the deck. There's probably some fine line between the bauble versions and the versions trying to go way over the top and shove Jace's in the side with their best Grixis control impression (I don't think this deck needs Jace's). The deck's strength lies in it's ability to play like a control, midrange and combo deck and shift it's gears depending on the matchup. It's almost like a Jack of all trades deck, being able to do several things pretty well but not excellently.