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  • posted a message on Spring Cleaning the Modern Subforum Primers
    Is it too late for me to claim the 4c Gifts Primer?
    Posted in: Modern
  • posted a message on [Primer] 4C Gifts
    Forgot to answer the Tron Question:
    Tron is by far our worst matchup. Neither of the unburial locks do anything against their deck. Barring major changes Game 1 is a wash, you're best served playing to figure out what flavor they are on and scooping to board and hope to get g2 and 3.

    There are a few piles that my version can make in the board to help combat tron but if you think you'll see alot of tron it might be worth tossing in a terrastadon to unburial so you can blow up their lands.

    Crumble to Dust
    Snapcaster Mage + Noxious Revival + Ghost Quarter | Field of Ruin|assassin's trophy + Extirpate/surgical
    Allows you to destroy a nonbasic land and get rid of all copies of it not in play, just like Crumble to Dust .

    Loam/Crime Package
    Raven's Crime + Life from the Loam + Ghost Quarter + Value Card
    From the board you can bring in Loam and Crime to combat control by stripping their hand so they can’t counter your removal. You can also grab Bojuka Bog to arrange a grave lockout by playing Bojuka Bog every other turn as you must Ghost Quarter your own bog and use loam to get it back.

    These piles work on top of damping sphere and unmoored ego. I also think Thrunn might be a sleeper in this matchup- as their outs are low (Ugin and the stray all is dust) just like in uw control matchups. They can put out big creatures to block with but our removal should be enough to tempo through it.

    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] 4C Gifts
    I stopped using Tappedout a few months ago - here is my newest list it runs some discard with the ramp.
    https://archidekt.com/decks/54404#4C_Gifts

    The flex slots are the Nihil spellbomb and Steves in the main. bane slayer, loam/crime the brutality and ruined halo and the second ego in the board.

    If you look through the posts you'll see I've tried some spice but of that a single champion of wits worked the best in the main. I've been considering testing bring to light bring to light in the board.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] 4C Gifts
    Didn't run him last night Frown though I'm already really considering dropping the 2 Steve's so he might make it back in somewhere in the 75. Last night's build wanted 6 ramp and 6 discard to maximize the odds of t1 discard t2 ramp t3 gifts
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] 4C Gifts
    Just finish another FNM (20 players) - 3-1 record 6th place finish.

    Jund Deathshadow Win 2 1
    Local player homebrew variant of Shadow. Used rythm of the wilds to steal game 2. Game 3 I locked him under worship and beat him with soul tokens.

    WB soul sisters Loss 0 2
    He had hand disurption and was able to back it up with bitter blossom tokens game 2 he pumped his team with his splash for gavony township.

    Jund Delierum Win 2 1
    Gravehate was key as this deck is nowhere near as powerful without delirium for traverse and flayer. Game 1 got a concession when named on black against a single goyf. Game 3 gravehate plus souls beat down.

    Esper Deathshadow Win 2 1
    Game 1 we go long, he thoughtsiezed my Iona and I top-decked the unburial for the win. Game 2 he disrupts my hand and small token beats for the win, but extirpate allowed me to see his board was full of gravehate but only t3ferie could do anything with a resolved worship. So game 3 I abandoned the unburial plan for the worship lock. Was able to assemble the lock with 2 caryatids. From there I used the flip search to find my 3 copies of brutality to burn him out in the final turns.


    Overall thoughts:
    The deck design change of trimming back on spot removal and utility slots for discard worked extremely well. I don't think I'll fit in the usual 4/2 split with thoughtseize as brutality allows alot of versatility and utility for bad draws. The steve's and Nihil spellbomb work to fuel the grave for search to azcanta. I'm not sure if steve will stay in the deck for the long haul as I feel a champion of wits for its late game ability would be useful and worship might be worth the main. Worship is amazing at least in my meta and after realizing that creeping chill doesn't drain but deals the damage it becomes an even better sb card.I'm honestly considering it as a main deck card to get some game 1 'gotcha' wins as most decks don't have enchantment removal until sb.

    I am really considering replacing the steves with one of the 2 sb locks, crime/loam or noxious/worship. This is the current meta according to MTG top 8 over the entirety of 2019. So the question becomes which is the better lock for the field. Control and Urza would be crime/loam but the other's don't have much in the way of game 1 outs to worship.

    Dredge 8 %
    Humans 7 %
    UW Control 7 %
    UrzaTron 7 %
    Red Deck Wins 6 %
    Death's Shadow 4 %


    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] 4C Gifts

    With the new mulligan starting today. I decided to rework my build some. I think we heavily benefit from this change as our deck mulligan-ed pretty badly. As there was always a chance that a mulligan would hit Iona etc and we would effectively go down 2 cards on that mulligan.

    According to a CFB article the decks that can assemble a winning hand with 4 cards will now be able to have that opener 70% of the time (previous 45%).

    So I see there are a few ways to handle this change:

    1. Try to develop a deck with a solid 4 card opener that can be aggressively mulliganed to for wins [(2 lands ramp, Gifts) Then you just need to draw a land in the first few draws]
    2. Prey on the decks abusing the optimal 4 card openers with targeted discard as discard gets better against their smaller and more focused hands.
    3. Some mixture of 1 and 2 that costs us slots for removal or utility.


    With that said the article points to the biggest gains under this mulligan will be Dredge and Tron. In my experience these are our worst match-ups.

    I decided to try to work the build on Option 3. Ramp and Discard. So the ideal hand for this deck is 5 cards {1 discard (preferably IOK) 1 Ramp, 2 lands, Gifts.} and a solid hand is the same minus discard. So the sequence would be t1 discard, T2 ramp, T3 gifts, t4 unbury/wrath.

    The only change I haven't been able to work in this list is I would love to follow the meta and have some amount of main-deck grave hate. I think 2 Nihil Spellbomb is the best option but I'm not sure what to cut. I don't want to cut on souls. Nor do I want to cut on Gifts as I need the 4of to get the 70% mull rate.


    Article in question: https://bit.ly/30yhAPt

    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] 4C Gifts
    Any thought on testing Izzet Charm in your list? Instant speed looting that can also shock creatures or spell pierce sounds like it might be a nice inclusion in the list though it does up the number of blue spells and need for blue mana.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] 4C Gifts
    I'm not going to lie Red does seem to have useful cards in Looting, Kcommand and Seasoned. But if we go to a 5th color splash I think bop or my preferred caryatid would be required to help with mana. Also once we hit 5c it might be worth looking at a bring to light or 2 in the 75. I can vouch that seasoned will more than likely be a strong part of any 5c version as my experience with champion of wits has shown that drawing and discarding part/whole unburial is amazing and I can only imagine getting 2 1/1's out of the deal on top of it. Im not sure of a 60/75 yet if we go 5c but I'll look into a theoretical list.

    Unearth seems like an oversight in my MH1 listing.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] 4C Gifts
    Here are some cards from MH1 and M20 that I think might be worth discussing/ testing:

    Kaya's Guile its alot like KoA in that it's a swiss army knife for various uses- lifegain for burn, edict for boggles, gravehate that doesn't touch our grave and can make a token for blocking or edicts at us. I don't think we should consider the entwine cost in evaluating it because if we're alive with 6 mana we are already ahead in the game.

    Echo of Eons - It could be a filler in gift piles where if they bin it we can reset hands and graves but at 6 mana to cast normal I can only see this as a pile filler or pitched to brutality/search

    Mind Rake - I wonder if the overload (1b) is worth considering, our deck is really good at discarding its own cards for later use and many lists use Lotv so this would be like 2 turns at once (though lotv is strictly better) blind discard is always worse than targeted discard though.

    Watcher for Tomorrow - this card is interesting. Its like anticipate or augur of bolas but it digs deeper and can get lands or other cards as needed. I have felt our deck is prone to bad draws and lacking of ways of digging through the deck effectively

    Canopy Lands - these obviously are powerful and I wonder how many if any we can fit in our already greedy manabase.

    Hall of Heliod's Generosity - like academy ruins but currently I don't think there is a strong enough lock that can be set up off a t4 gifts into t5. EOT what piles did you test with?

    Nether Spirit - depending on the build I could see this as a one of as it's a recursive threat/blocker and we normally don't have any creatures in our grave unless we're reanimating.

    Shatter Assumptions - wonder if this is worth looking at as a sb card when you have lots of tron, eldrazi and artifact prison. Making them discard all their action could be powerful. I don't think there is currently a deck that is primarily multi colored spells to hit with it.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] 4C Gifts
    It's been awfully quiet in here. No posts or comments during which 2 sets being spoiled. Has anyone seen any new tech for the deck in the sets? Anyone working on a variation?

    I'm still rocking my ramp and removal heavy list. Pretty solid coin flip on games and matches. For those wondering here is my current list: Click Here

    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] 4C Gifts
    With MTGsalvation closing in the next few months, does anyone want to move to a discord or other service to continue working on the deck? I could create one if there's interest.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] 4C Gifts
    I agree it doesn't feel great to wrath with a fresh caryatid but generally he saves you 2 life (blocking a small guy the turn he comes out) and wraths on t3. Caryatid is both ramp and fixing as opposed to Spiral is not a guarantee to have a land or have a land of the right color. I agree that baneslayer is dead in some matchups simply because the risk to tempo, but haven't decided on a threat that could replace her as a board stabilizer.

    Sidenote: I won't be posting much for the next few months I'm having a kid soon so MTG and 4c gifts will be getting set aside for awhile.
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] 4C Gifts
    Why Baneslayer over Lyra? I had a baneslayer sitting around in my angel collection while lyra is in an EDH deck. Honestly there isn’t a real reason to not have Lyra in her place unless you are worried about demons and dragons.
    Spiral vs Caryatid: Caryatid is too good to give up. Growth spiral will give a land if you have/draw which isn't guaranteed but caryatid will always be a 5c dork and it can block 74% of the modern creature meta.
    Wildwood vs Tarpit: Almost every creature caryatid can’t block has flying and it being out of bolt range lessens the odds of activating it to just have it die.
    4th wrath vs Gifts: I do like the extra wrath over gifts, as most of my game 1 gift piles are for wraths anyways.
    Surgical: I have considered surgical but with $$ restrictions I haven't ran it. The extirpate could theoretically be important
    Field of Ruin: Field of ruin is ok, running out of basics is a possibility but if your recurring it with loam to land lock them that's not much of a concern and it allows for piles like loam, field,gq,bog to just hit their lands and graves.

    Crime Vs Harvest: I did actually drop worm harvest when I retooled the sb from my control match experiences. For the same 5 mana I can get 1 counter or make them discard 3 so that + thrun made it an easy decision. In a control matchup if we’re in a topdeck war I think I have better odds, as their counters will just get crime while I remove their threats or play my own.
    On control- normal versions of 4c have good strength against control thanks to the discard, but my main is low on discard so that’s what makes it a hard matchup, though I’m confident with my revised sideboard the matchup will change drastically.

    Here is my Decklist with more information about the card selections: HERE
    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] 4C Gifts
    Just placed 3rd at a 19 man local tournament. The deck feels really good, I’m still really impressed with Caryatid- its ability to ramp and save some life by blocking small creatures is really solid. I feel like control decks are my version's current weak spot and there seems to be a wave of players picking up versions of control. My version has proven extremely resilient to grave hate. My opponents tend to bring in Rip/ nihil spell bomb which I ignore for the majority of the time, as I’m am well equipped to play as a fair midrange/control. I tried the Worms, loam, gq, bog against esper control, but they have enough incidental grave hate that kaya exiled worm and loam.... I think my control package is going to look at a Thrun, the Last Troll as it has synergies with worship anyways.

    Notable changes from previous versions:
    • Changed tarpit to wildwood as the reach can be important and white/ green are the more important colors for me.
    • Sun Titan changed to Gideo Ally- its a lower costed threat that can be found by Search, Titan had lackluster options to bring back from the grave.
    • Went down to 3 Gifts and pulled the Settle from the Side to the main.
    • Flipped the split of Tropy and Decay
    • Dropped a KoA for a Unmoored Ego in the board.
    • Added Extirpate to the sideboard allowing for what I call the Crumble to Dust package to help with tron/valukut.

    Posted in: Combo
  • posted a message on [Primer] 4C Gifts
    Last night I decided I wanted to track my progress on this deck, so I created an excel sheet to do so. The results were a little surprising as I was able to go back to 11/09/2018 via the DCI and pull all my modern tournaments (I’ve only been playing 4c).
    • SB Wins is honestly filler where if I won twice I counted 1 sb win but if I won once I got 0 sb wins (this should even out over time).
    • You’ll see a high number of games for Deck: Unknown – that’s because DCI only reports wins/ and losses. If I wasn’t able to remember what the matchup was or find it in one of my tournament reports I put it down as an unknown. Sadly that means for now the meta share’s are not accurate.
    • Here’s a version of my tracker if you want to start tracking your own- https://filebin.net/jm9apnr6f4xj80zv
    You input your win /loss and deck on the “Game Logs” Tab. Then follow the instructions in Readme.txt or Deck Import to import those decks on the Match Stats page. Everything else auto calculates, and has conditional formatting for highlighting Red/ Green/ Yellow

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