Hey guys, I have occasionally posted but am frequently reading the updates and I think we may need to update the primer on pg1. That said I have been noticing that we seem to have several different philosophies on how to control the early game into our mid-late game advantage and eventual win.
The first involves the tried and true expensive list Bob, lili of the veil, and lingering souls to overwhelm the opponent with card advantage. [I've played a variant that also used blind obedience to slow your opponents creatures and add that incremental drain from a late game iok topdeck, and lots of protection from color creatures to negate much of my opponents options of removing them.]
Another version that seems to be the "flavor of the month" [at least in the current meta] is the ayli, percy builds that gum up the ground and swing with a beefed up fattie in the air and sacrifice him to our advantage.
The last version is a tip of the hat to our former eldrazi overlords using Tidehollow castigate path and sin collector to keep their graveyard empty and use wasteland strangler as both a kill spell and a beater with eldrazi displacer to gain all the card advantage from reusing all of these etb effects.
I would love to hear your comments and feedback on my observations.
[EDIT]: Just found out that Leyline is a nonbo with Kalitas because the opponent gets to choose which exile effect occurs. Rest in Peace would work the same way. So I will play the above list with 3 Relic of Progenitus instead of the Leylines, as my SB graveyard hate. I might also replace 1-2 Path to Exile with Dismembers, especially if I try Kalitas as a 3-of, as I am thinking I may do.
Rest in Peace , [c=Leyline of the Void]Leyline, and Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet all set up replacement effects.
"614.15. Some replacement effects are not continuous effects. Rather, they are an effect of a resolving spell or ability that replace part or all of that spell or ability’s own effect(s). Such effects are called self-replacement effects. The text creating a self-replacement effect is usually part of the ability whose effect is being replaced, but the text can be a separate ability, particularly when preceded by an ability word. When applying replacement effects to an event, self-replacement effects are applied before other replacement effects."
"616.1. If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object's controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order."
Does this simplify how they are actually working together for you in your own deck? If not Please go to a mtg rules adviser or FNM Judge to explain this to you.
*Edit* what do you think of the new Sorin? i use Phyrexian Arena instead of Bob. So the 6 CMC is not quite as painful as drawing it off of a bob. And it does allow us to finish out games quicker with unique CA engine. His +2 to "draw" a card and bob-damage your opponent, or be up to a 6 damage Tendrils of Corruption. the reason i ask is that the other Sorins feel lacking and i dont like elspeth in my build since i am more black heavy going the Pack Rat route for damage and board state.
Hey guys, How again do we not die horribly to a side-boarded Leyline of the Void or Rest in Peace? since they are replacement effects and both blood artist and cutthroat resolve on creatures hitting graveyards, kinda like legacy/vintage helm of obedience combo. since i am seeing sideboards without enchantment removal.
I didn't really like the Wargears, may take them off along with Bitterblossom and go back to 4x Pack Rat main.
I understand your ire against tron, what i have done is main deck 4 Ghost Quarter and side in 4 Rain of Tears, with 3 hero's downfall against their planeswalkers. As much as people dislike the card the two-drop Blind Obedience still does its work against Tron, slowing them down at least by one turn or more. my only bad matchup is against blue tron which has counterspells but that doesn't stop GQ or Blind Obedience on turns 1 and 2.
I know you posted a while ago but i just wanted to mention that i am on a similar budget and have a more control style list. This is what I use and in my very competitive FNM, and I usually go about 3/1/0 or 2/2/0. I do not have any Dark Confidant or Brimaz, King of Oreskos, too poor to afford that. Blind Obedience will win games when you stabilize and helps swing Life back in your favor. So before you hate on it try it out first, I have found that it makes my removal twice as effective since it negates haste and taps the only blockers that they have for two free combat steps. Also versus control magic, extort is guaranteed life swing in our favor.
I have thought of those, my concern is that with the vibrant Meta, what do I want to cut...
Cut too many creatures and you do not have enough threats ===> i am running 10 creatures plus lingering souls and 6 in sideboard.
Cut too much removal and you let your opponents threats get through ===> 8 kill spells, 4 zealous (combat tricks and token removal), and 7 discard
This is what I use and in my very competitive FNM, and I usually go about 3/1/0 or 2/2/0. I do not have any Dark Confidant or Brimaz, King of Oreskos. I am wondering on your feedback. Surprisingly, Blind Obedience will win games when you stabilize and helps swing life back in your favor.
The first involves the tried and true expensive list Bob, lili of the veil, and lingering souls to overwhelm the opponent with card advantage. [I've played a variant that also used blind obedience to slow your opponents creatures and add that incremental drain from a late game iok topdeck, and lots of protection from color creatures to negate much of my opponents options of removing them.]
Another version that seems to be the "flavor of the month" [at least in the current meta] is the ayli, percy builds that gum up the ground and swing with a beefed up fattie in the air and sacrifice him to our advantage.
The last version is a tip of the hat to our former eldrazi overlords using Tidehollow castigate path and sin collector to keep their graveyard empty and use wasteland strangler as both a kill spell and a beater with eldrazi displacer to gain all the card advantage from reusing all of these etb effects.
I would love to hear your comments and feedback on my observations.
Rest in Peace , [c=Leyline of the Void]Leyline, and Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet all set up replacement effects.
"614.15. Some replacement effects are not continuous effects. Rather, they are an effect of a resolving spell or ability that replace part or all of that spell or ability’s own effect(s). Such effects are called self-replacement effects. The text creating a self-replacement effect is usually part of the ability whose effect is being replaced, but the text can be a separate ability, particularly when preceded by an ability word. When applying replacement effects to an event, self-replacement effects are applied before other replacement effects."
Now, we have two conflicting continuous replacement effects (Kalitas's Exile and get a Zombie, and the Leyline or Rest in Peace ).
"616.1. If two or more replacement and/or prevention effects are attempting to modify the way an event affects an object or player, the affected object's controller (or its owner if it has no controller) or the affected player chooses one to apply, following the steps listed below. If two or more players have to make these choices at the same time, choices are made in APNAP order."
Does this simplify how they are actually working together for you in your own deck? If not Please go to a mtg rules adviser or FNM Judge to explain this to you.
*Edit* what do you think of the new Sorin? i use Phyrexian Arena instead of Bob. So the 6 CMC is not quite as painful as drawing it off of a bob. And it does allow us to finish out games quicker with unique CA engine. His +2 to "draw" a card and bob-damage your opponent, or be up to a 6 damage Tendrils of Corruption. the reason i ask is that the other Sorins feel lacking and i dont like elspeth in my build since i am more black heavy going the Pack Rat route for damage and board state.
I understand your ire against tron, what i have done is main deck 4 Ghost Quarter and side in 4 Rain of Tears, with 3 hero's downfall against their planeswalkers. As much as people dislike the card the two-drop Blind Obedience still does its work against Tron, slowing them down at least by one turn or more. my only bad matchup is against blue tron which has counterspells but that doesn't stop GQ or Blind Obedience on turns 1 and 2.
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Castigate
3x Blind Obedience
2x Go for the Throat
3x Zealous Persecution
4x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Mirran Crusader
2x Phyrexian Arena
2x Dismember
4x Lingering Souls
1x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1x Obzedat, Ghost Council
2x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
6x Plains
4x Swamp
4x Caves of Koilos
4x Isolated Chapel
3x Scoured Barrens
2x Revoke Existence
3x Vampire Hexmage
3x Sin Collector
2x Black Sun's Zenith
4x Rain of Tears
Cut too many creatures and you do not have enough threats ===> i am running 10 creatures plus lingering souls and 6 in sideboard.
Cut too much removal and you let your opponents threats get through ===> 8 kill spells, 4 zealous (combat tricks and token removal), and 7 discard
maybe cut Sorin, Solemn Visitor for another Phyrexian Arena?
Thus far my worst match up is Tron, if that helps with suggestions.
MainDeck
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Castigate
3x Blind Obedience
2x Go for the Throat
4x Zealous Persecution
4x Mirran Crusader
4x Phyrexian Crusader
2x Phyrexian Arena
2x Dismember
4x Lingering Souls
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2x Blood Baron of Vizkopa
6x Plains
4x Swamp
4x Caves of Koilos
4x Isolated Chapel
3x Scoured Barrens
Sideboard
2x Revoke Existence
3x Vampire Hexmage
3x Sin Collector
1x Syphon Life
2x Utter End
1x Obzedat, Ghost Council