But i think you know a lot better than me the pratical problems a sliver deck must face; for the first time i correctly read the Sidewinder sliver, and only now, after years, i undestand that if you've 3 slivers, enemy creature get -3-3. This is amazing.
Isnt this the case only if all of the 3 slivers are Sidewinder Sliver? Or do you mean if you have one Sidewinder Sliver and 2 other random slivers?
Well, sadly I was mistaken. I just double checked the rules on Flanking with a judge. Seems like both the card’s text box *and* The Gatherer are misleading. Even though it says « block a Sliver », which would have triggered all non-blocked Slivers when another one is blocked, the rules on specifically says « block this creature ». Sorry guys if I gave you false hope with Sidewinder. I’ll still play it on my list, if only to have more one-drops to chain spells with Manaweft + Haste.
Well you got me going thats for sure and had to reread the text several times. I think it comes down to the text on sliver at hand: "all slivers get flanking". That means all other slivers get just "Flanking" and not the first. If that were the case then in fact flanking would stack according to how many slivers you had not by how many Sidewinder Slivers you have.
But i think you know a lot better than me the pratical problems a sliver deck must face; for the first time i correctly read the Sidewinder sliver, and only now, after years, i undestand that if you've 3 slivers, enemy creature get -3-3. This is amazing.
Isnt this the case only if all of the 3 slivers are Sidewinder Sliver? Or do you mean if you have one Sidewinder Sliver and 2 other random slivers?
If said simulation variables only demand 1 landers to be "viable" then I would call it flawed. Not only do you want to play a 2CMC drop on your second turn or at least 2 x 1 drops to keep up the pace. That 2nd land is so important and its rare you can win with a 1 lander and stick with that land throughout the next few turns. Possible with a vial but other than that I dont see it.
patbou_clone: Personally I appreciate your efforts in proving one version is "the right one" but I do miss more pratical data piloting the deck other than what any simulation could provide. Timba has advocated for his Fast Slivers version and have provided lots of tournament results to back it up with.
Well, 3-0 is something. Have you missed my post? I was away on vacation or would have posted more results. I’ll bring the deck to a big tournament tomorrow. We’ll see... I may be proven wrong.
For those of you who like numbers, I’ve run 100.000 simulations of two different decks, just to test keepable hands : my deck with 4 Virulents and 16 lands, and another with 2 Automaton and 2 Ziggurats instead. Surprisingly, the deck with 16 lands and more Weenies was more keepable than the one with 18 lands, and by a wide margin... 78% vs 63%, if I recall correctly.
I bet a build with 18 lands has more win percentage than 16 lands. And your algorithm for keepable hands is most probably flawed) Playing one 1-drop per turn is a road to defeat.
No one plays 16 lands in Modern for a reason
And this deck is no exception, yes it wants to play 1 drops, but its power comes from 2 drops, which is a problem at 16 lands (2 cmc mana dork is not a solution)
Agreed.
If said simulation variables only demand 1 landers to be "viable" then I would call it flawed. Not only do you want to play a 2CMC drop on your second turn or at least 2 x 1 drops to keep up the pace. That 2nd land is so important and its rare you can win with a 1 lander and stick with that land throughout the next few turns. Possible with a vial but other than that I dont see it.
patbou_clone: Personally I appreciate your efforts in proving one version is "the right one" but I do miss more pratical data piloting the deck other than what any simulation could provide. Timba has advocated for his Fast Slivers version and have provided lots of tournament results to back it up with.
@ThisisKraben
I don’t think Morophon is very good, just because it’s seven mana, and if you can cast that you don’t need a cost reduction.
I agree. The above example was more of a dream scenario. Time will tell what lists proves to be most effective. I think the more traditional list with CoCo and Vial will still be a thing and so will Fast Slivers both only with minor changes. I hope for also for a more combo type of list including the new unearth Sliver.
What about if Modern Horizon includes reprints of old Slivers such as Crystalline Sliver and Hibernation Sliver? What could our list look like then? Im really reluctant to get my hopes up to high, but the common tounge do seem to believe in a return of our beloved tribe
am I wrong in thinking Drana is too good not to be played here? with access to up to 12 5 color lands and possibly Harabaz Druid I don't see why she isnt played. as a two off or something.
Cutting bolts and possibly firemantle mage. Is something I wanna do and I don't think Expedition Envoy is the answer...
I see something going foward for me with only Path and CoCo as non creature spells removing the need for a red source.
Drana has two problems that I see
She has a BB casting cost. Black has some cool utility allies but tends to lack sheer power in a lot of the ally options. Kalastria Healer and Bojuka Brigand are sort of the other two maybe playable black allies and they mostly suffer from being weaker than other allies that you could play. Hagra Diabolist is cheaky too but ultimately so expensive that he is at best maybe a sideboard splash. I did test black quite a bit and overall I feel that Kalastria Healer might be the best option as it can get past some things like Ensnaring Bridge locks but ultimately it felt very weak against the faster decks of modern which often pushed me to sideboard them if I was running them at all. My point here is that BB is a rough casting cost when black is otherwise mostly not used so its harder to justify lands other than the ones that tap for any color for allies to play her.
She has almost zero immediate impact. Sure she is an ally and triggers allies to do their thing. That said the allies that most people are playing that would cost three do things like giving evasion to the current creatures in play. Modern is a brutal fast format where you might be dead before you get a turn three and she is a three drop that has no immediate impact. It means that it takes until turn 4 for her to do anything and she dies to like everything and all of her upside relies on her super slowly hitting play, sticking, and being able to swing. In my mind it means that she maybe is ok against fair decks which is already the type of deck allies do extremely well against.
In a nutshell, if she is at all decent, its because you are already up against a favorable matchup. She is winmore and black is a color that is hard to justify being invested in for a BB casting cost given that it tends to be the 4th or 5th color already for allies given that Naya colors tend to have better options.
We have up to 12 5 collor lands. I havent had a problem casting her and she has been awesome in long lasting games. If every game would end on t3 we wouldnt run CoCo. Yeah she sure isnt very good when we are getting comboed, but tbh many things aren't. She won't pump the Champion imediatily but against other creature decks she has been performed well imho. I just can't see myself playing Envoy but I suppose thats the way.
What are we setting up to beat? what MUs should we win?
Against fair deck we are at our strongest I think. Our creaturebase has a snowballing effect and if unanswered should prove very strong. Fast combo decks we hve to rely on very fast kills or we are done. Against control we need to kill fast og have cards to help the nutrition game such as CoCo and possibly Lead the Stampede to fill up the tanks again after a board whipe.
Well you got me going thats for sure and had to reread the text several times.
Isnt this the case only if all of the 3 slivers are Sidewinder Sliver? Or do you mean if you have one Sidewinder Sliver and 2 other random slivers?
And more of that, please.
Agreed.
If said simulation variables only demand 1 landers to be "viable" then I would call it flawed. Not only do you want to play a 2CMC drop on your second turn or at least 2 x 1 drops to keep up the pace. That 2nd land is so important and its rare you can win with a 1 lander and stick with that land throughout the next few turns. Possible with a vial but other than that I dont see it.
patbou_clone: Personally I appreciate your efforts in proving one version is "the right one" but I do miss more pratical data piloting the deck other than what any simulation could provide. Timba has advocated for his Fast Slivers version and have provided lots of tournament results to back it up with.
I agree. The above example was more of a dream scenario. Time will tell what lists proves to be most effective. I think the more traditional list with CoCo and Vial will still be a thing and so will Fast Slivers both only with minor changes. I hope for also for a more combo type of list including the new unearth Sliver.
Against fair deck we are at our strongest I think. Our creaturebase has a snowballing effect and if unanswered should prove very strong. Fast combo decks we hve to rely on very fast kills or we are done. Against control we need to kill fast og have cards to help the nutrition game such as CoCo and possibly Lead the Stampede to fill up the tanks again after a board whipe.