There's also probably some critical mass of creatures we'd need to run to be able to get use out of skin invasion, and I'm pretty sure 12 doesn't cut it. I could see it used in modern where it could combo with spark elemental/hellspark elemental/Keldon Marauders though, since the mono-red version of burn in that format loses a ton of our cool spells.
I'm surprised you haven't given up trying to convince us to run Devil yet. By all means play 4x of it if you love it so much but I think after numerous pages of you not getting anyone to play the card with you, there should be some point where you should consider us a lost cause and just give up on convincing us to play your amazing tech lmao.
This looks like another trap. Three mana is a huge investment, you're basicly skipping a big turn to put this on the field, and it suffers the same issue every other 'almost' playable creature does, it doesn't do anything the turn it hits. You won't net gain with this until you untap.
If browbeat is unplayable in burn I don't think this will either. Both are the same casting cost, there is a chance that browbeat does 5 damage, but only when its irrelevant, otherwise you draw three cards, you still have to untap to take advantage of these three cards(unless you drew into fireblast). My point is that if three mana for potential three cards is unplayable, then three mana for potential 1 card is even less playable. I can go deeper into this, but I don't think its necessary.
Why couldn't they have made this 1R, 2/1 menace with said ability. Thats the two mana powerhouse red needs.
That would basically be Dark Confidant on steroids. However, Browbeat is only unplayable because it's an opponent's choice card. It would be very playable if it was just 3cmc for drawing 3 cards.
2R
Creature - Devil
Menace
At the beginning of your upkeep, reveal the top card of your library. Any opponent may have you put that card into your graveyard. If a player does, Sin Prodder deals damage to that player equal to that card's converted mana cost. Otherwise, put that card into your hand. http://imgur.com/G02u9ha
I think this is much more viable than SDT in a burn deck. Yes it's weak to removal, but so it SDT. It's a 3/2 so it swings for 3 if needed and has evasion, it gives you an extra card or free damage or thins out land draws (face it, once burn hits 3 land, we should be in full swing), it also fuels lavamancer. As a one off in legacy burn, this card I think is a new staple.
SDT is actually not weak to removal at all (basically the only way to remove it after it resolves is with Krosan Grip or in response to an activation of the draw ability).
The extra draw is pretty nifty, although I see this as more of a synergy than a replacement for Top. The stats and menace aren't too relevant when it doesn't have haste because it's easy to remove. I agree with the guy who said at 2cmc it's a broken dark confidant though. At 3CMC it's questionable because we are a 19 land deck after all.
Had I found a land with SDT early on I could still have bolted his guy despite all the tempo loss and I would be on track for at least a solid game. Elves doesn't play that tempo game like RUG delver does.
Mostly I just view top as something to help me get what I need in a timely fashion (this obviously applies more so late game when I'm topdecking and want spells over land but I figured it could have worked here as well). Top was actually not my turn 1 play, I ended up playing it turn 2 for a prowess trigger then I finally got around to spinning it on my turn 3. I feel like it was just unfortunate variance that I didn't see a land in my top 3 cards.
Given what my opponent had drawn his first few turns I definitely would have won if I had gotten a second land. He had to use Glimpse of Nature turn 3 to set up the win and given that I had Eidolon, that would have shut off his glimpse turn had I gotten a second land, so it didn't really matter that searing blaze would have been somewhat dead without a third land.
I know I definitely would have mulliganed that hand vs a blind deck as I generally don't keep one-landers for the exact reason I lost that game.
I took the unmodified build I listed above to an IQ last saturday. Didn't do too well and didn't stick around past round 4 but it was an interesting experience.
Round 1: Elves (0-2)
Game 1 (draw): My opening 7 is solid but I don't see any removal spells this game and he combos off on turn 4. I don't remember the exact contents but it contained guide and swiftspear, and was definitely a hand I would normally keep blind.
Game 2 (play): My opening 7 is this hand: Scalding Tarn, Monastery Swiftspear, Sensei's divining top, Lightning Bolt, Eidolon of the Great Revel, and 2x Searing Blaze. I keep this hand because I know I will definitely win if I can draw a second land. However, I fail to draw a second land even after spinning top and I die turn 4. The kicker? The land was 4 cards down before I spun top. I don't know if keeping the 7 was a mistake or not but either way it sure blew up in my face. Thoughts?
Round 2: RUG Delver (0-2)
I don't remember much either game except I have no way of dealing with his Nimble mongoose, and he was able to land multiples of each against me both games. I think he had 3 out on game 2. I've only played this matchup once so I ended up getting some key spells countered.
Round 3: Bye. Played some commander while getting the fuming about going 0-6 with burn over the past 2 days out of my system before round 4. If you want, I could probably recall some of my matches on Friday where I played MUD, Jeskai stoneblade, Miracles, and Loam pox.
Round 4: Shardless BUG (2-0)
Game 1: I end up landing an early Sulfuric Vortex and I end up redirecting its damage to his planeswalkers. Sensei's Divining Top single handedly won me the game here. The turn after I played top, I spun it and saw I was about to flood out with 3 land on top, so I shuffled using a fetch and spun again. This time, top shows me a Lava Spike, Lightning Bolt, andPrice of Progress. I pass the turn and my opponent goes to 13, while upticking Liliana and casting Jace, the Mind sculptor. On my next turn, I draw bolt, and then use top to draw a lethal Price for 8.
Game 2: I don't have top this time around but it was ok this time because my opponent met a swift death.
Top definitely has put in hella work over the weekend for me, and it only ever disappointed me once against the elf deck, but that's not even the card's fault. I've loved playing with it every single time I've drawn it, and I don't see it going anywhere anytime soon. I also like it as a 2-of. Even though I wish I could draw it more often, it's probably for the best if I keep it at 2, and I feel like 1 isn't sufficient enough to add to the deck's consistency. There's few games I've actually lost when I've played it and it's definitely single-handedly won me more games than just the one against Shardless BUG. Since you're a burn deck, nobody's going to side in Top hate against you for the time being at least since nobody expects it and it's generally not worth doing so. I will try Nevelo's modded main next Friday with 2 REB sideboard and see how that goes.
The problem with that vampire is that it doesn't have haste. Guide and swifty were only playable because of haste. Could be a corner case sideboard card if discard/Liliana decks start taking over Legacy which doesn't seem to be the case.
Sorry but my comment was directed to an alternate to Swifty...
The best thing about swiftly is haste but she runs out of steam... even in a deck that's loaded with spells, she runs out of steam...
If Swifty runs out of steam that means your deck has run out of steam and you now have bigger problems to worry about.
The problem with that vampire is that it doesn't have haste. Guide and swifty were only playable because of haste. Could be a corner case sideboard card if discard/Liliana decks start taking over Legacy which doesn't seem to be the case.
Thoughts? Honestly vs. combo Eidolon/Mindbreak trap is the best I can do regardless of build. I have a legacy IQ tomorrow and if you think this altered build is more consistent I'll try those changes.
I actually found another LGS a ways down the highway that does Legacy FNM's weekly, I went and even though I had tons of fun I still went 0-4. I had a similar situation against UWR stoneblade where he were at 2 life and I lost because I topdecked land until he played his Batterskull, but I honestly blame the guy having double Swords to plowshares to remove both my guide AND my swfitspear, since if either was left in play that would have been lethal on the turn he went to 2.
What would you honestly replace Swiftspear with? I was thinking (if I actually do this of course) of putting in 2 Lavamancer and put back fourth Fireblast/Price which would free up 2 sideboard slots for whatever I want (probably Red Elemental Blast), but maybe you might have a better suggestion.
Every game I drew and played top, I loved it. It won me a tough game 2 vs MUD when there was double Lodestone Golem out, as I used top to filter myself into both a Smash to Smithereens and a fourth land to actually cast the smash on his untapped Golem. However, in games where I didn't draw top, everything that could have gone wrong due to variance went wrong.
I also 1-2'd against Miracles and Loam Pox. By the time game 3 ended against Miracles I had 7/11 mountains in play, and I think I used between 4-6 of my 8 fetches, but the deck just refused to give me gas in that particular game. The Loam Pox matchup was just unfortunate because he had the dark depths/Thespian's stage combo in his opening hand for both games 2 and 3. That's usually a very good matchup for burn because Price blows them out easily.
I think given the meta I saw at that LGS maybe I should swap out a Searing Blazefor the fourth price.
Do you have a list and matchups? I don't think I've seen a list that's played Fallout for some time. If you don't like swiftspears maybe cut one for a second top?
I'd go with a rev splash, you can keep the taiga/stomping grounds in your board until needed, although I can't remember if you run fetches. The window where REB is better than rev is pretty small, and Rev can still hit RIP, if you time it right you can take out both pieces of the combo. I mean if he has RiP and Energy field in play, and you revelry either the combo would be broken, best case scenario you wait for him to play a spell and rev his RiP and two for one him, worse case scenario you still hit Energy field. Spell Skite would wreck you though. And if this combo is that much of an issue, I would splash for Krosan grip and call it a day.
I have seriously considered that since Enchantress is also basically unwinnable for burn, but we would also need to bring Revelry in against decks like Death and Taxes and MUD as well (since it would replace smash to smithereens), and both decks run playsets of Wasteland, which can potentially make Revelry unplayable in certain boardstates. Both decks are also more widely played than Enchantress and RIP Helm. Just a few months ago though it was correct to board a full playset of REB because of Omni-tell, but not as much now that Dig got banned.
I'm probably overthinking this though because he is one of the few guys that actually comes into the store with a Legacy deck and plays with random people on a regular basis, and he's one of the few people I can play with whenever there isn't an event. No, he doesn't run Spellskite.
Edit: Lmao, I forgot Anarchy was a card. However, since it's sorcery speed and 4cmc it wouldn't really help me out in that matchup, plus there's no other matchups aside from DNT and enchantress where this is worth bringing in.
Exactly. REB can take out Energy Field, and that's my only out to the lock. Of course it is just one deck but it is one deck that has been doing well locally, so I don't know if it's worth trying to figure out what to replace with REB.
Question, since Red Elemental Blast was errata'd to be modal: If I target an opponent's blue permanent with REB, can he change the target to a spell on the stack with Misdirection, or does he have to stick with the mode I chose when switching targets?
You can't change modes of spells with Misdirection, so they can only change it to another target that is legal for the mode you chose. If you could, there would be a lot of Double Striking Spellskites in Modern as a result of Boros Charm.
Dope, I was thinking about putting some number of REB back into the side because of a friend I know playing a Rest In Peace enchantments deck that can easily shut out burn turn 3. REB is pretty much the only out for his lock without splashing for Destructive Revelry, but my friend also runs Misdirection in his side. If what you've said is correct then he has to use a counter to stop me from breaking the lock since he won't be controlling any other blue permanents.
That would basically be Dark Confidant on steroids. However, Browbeat is only unplayable because it's an opponent's choice card. It would be very playable if it was just 3cmc for drawing 3 cards.
SDT is actually not weak to removal at all (basically the only way to remove it after it resolves is with Krosan Grip or in response to an activation of the draw ability).
The extra draw is pretty nifty, although I see this as more of a synergy than a replacement for Top. The stats and menace aren't too relevant when it doesn't have haste because it's easy to remove. I agree with the guy who said at 2cmc it's a broken dark confidant though. At 3CMC it's questionable because we are a 19 land deck after all.
Mostly I just view top as something to help me get what I need in a timely fashion (this obviously applies more so late game when I'm topdecking and want spells over land but I figured it could have worked here as well). Top was actually not my turn 1 play, I ended up playing it turn 2 for a prowess trigger then I finally got around to spinning it on my turn 3. I feel like it was just unfortunate variance that I didn't see a land in my top 3 cards.
I know I definitely would have mulliganed that hand vs a blind deck as I generally don't keep one-landers for the exact reason I lost that game.
Round 1: Elves (0-2)
Game 1 (draw): My opening 7 is solid but I don't see any removal spells this game and he combos off on turn 4. I don't remember the exact contents but it contained guide and swiftspear, and was definitely a hand I would normally keep blind.
Game 2 (play): My opening 7 is this hand: Scalding Tarn, Monastery Swiftspear, Sensei's divining top, Lightning Bolt, Eidolon of the Great Revel, and 2x Searing Blaze. I keep this hand because I know I will definitely win if I can draw a second land. However, I fail to draw a second land even after spinning top and I die turn 4. The kicker? The land was 4 cards down before I spun top. I don't know if keeping the 7 was a mistake or not but either way it sure blew up in my face. Thoughts?
Round 2: RUG Delver (0-2)
I don't remember much either game except I have no way of dealing with his Nimble mongoose, and he was able to land multiples of each against me both games. I think he had 3 out on game 2. I've only played this matchup once so I ended up getting some key spells countered.
Round 3: Bye. Played some commander while getting the fuming about going 0-6 with burn over the past 2 days out of my system before round 4. If you want, I could probably recall some of my matches on Friday where I played MUD, Jeskai stoneblade, Miracles, and Loam pox.
Round 4: Shardless BUG (2-0)
Game 1: I end up landing an early Sulfuric Vortex and I end up redirecting its damage to his planeswalkers. Sensei's Divining Top single handedly won me the game here. The turn after I played top, I spun it and saw I was about to flood out with 3 land on top, so I shuffled using a fetch and spun again. This time, top shows me a Lava Spike, Lightning Bolt, andPrice of Progress. I pass the turn and my opponent goes to 13, while upticking Liliana and casting Jace, the Mind sculptor. On my next turn, I draw bolt, and then use top to draw a lethal Price for 8.
Game 2: I don't have top this time around but it was ok this time because my opponent met a swift death.
Top definitely has put in hella work over the weekend for me, and it only ever disappointed me once against the elf deck, but that's not even the card's fault. I've loved playing with it every single time I've drawn it, and I don't see it going anywhere anytime soon. I also like it as a 2-of. Even though I wish I could draw it more often, it's probably for the best if I keep it at 2, and I feel like 1 isn't sufficient enough to add to the deck's consistency. There's few games I've actually lost when I've played it and it's definitely single-handedly won me more games than just the one against Shardless BUG. Since you're a burn deck, nobody's going to side in Top hate against you for the time being at least since nobody expects it and it's generally not worth doing so. I will try Nevelo's modded main next Friday with 2 REB sideboard and see how that goes.
If Swifty runs out of steam that means your deck has run out of steam and you now have bigger problems to worry about.
3x Fireblast
4x Lava Spike
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Price of Progress
4x Rift Bolt
3x Searing Blaze
2x Sulfuric Vortex
2x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Goblin Guide
4x Monastery Swiftspear
Land (19)
4x Bloodstained Mire
11x Mountain
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Faerie Macabre
2x Grim Lavamancer
3x Mindbreak Trap
3x Smash to Smithereens
3x Vexing Shusher
Cutting swiftspear, I think my deck might end up looking something like this:
4x Fireblast
4x Lava Spike
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Price of Progress
4x Rift Bolt
3x Searing Blaze
2x Sulfuric Vortex
2x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Goblin Guide
2x Grim Lavamancer
Land (19)
4x Bloodstained Mire
11x Mountain
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Faerie Macabre
3x Mindbreak Trap
2x Red Elemental Blast
3x Smash to Smithereens
3x Vexing Shusher
Thoughts? Honestly vs. combo Eidolon/Mindbreak trap is the best I can do regardless of build. I have a legacy IQ tomorrow and if you think this altered build is more consistent I'll try those changes.
What would you honestly replace Swiftspear with? I was thinking (if I actually do this of course) of putting in 2 Lavamancer and put back fourth Fireblast/Price which would free up 2 sideboard slots for whatever I want (probably Red Elemental Blast), but maybe you might have a better suggestion.
Every game I drew and played top, I loved it. It won me a tough game 2 vs MUD when there was double Lodestone Golem out, as I used top to filter myself into both a Smash to Smithereens and a fourth land to actually cast the smash on his untapped Golem. However, in games where I didn't draw top, everything that could have gone wrong due to variance went wrong.
I also 1-2'd against Miracles and Loam Pox. By the time game 3 ended against Miracles I had 7/11 mountains in play, and I think I used between 4-6 of my 8 fetches, but the deck just refused to give me gas in that particular game. The Loam Pox matchup was just unfortunate because he had the dark depths/Thespian's stage combo in his opening hand for both games 2 and 3. That's usually a very good matchup for burn because Price blows them out easily.
I think given the meta I saw at that LGS maybe I should swap out a Searing Blazefor the fourth price.
I have seriously considered that since Enchantress is also basically unwinnable for burn, but we would also need to bring Revelry in against decks like Death and Taxes and MUD as well (since it would replace smash to smithereens), and both decks run playsets of Wasteland, which can potentially make Revelry unplayable in certain boardstates. Both decks are also more widely played than Enchantress and RIP Helm. Just a few months ago though it was correct to board a full playset of REB because of Omni-tell, but not as much now that Dig got banned.
I'm probably overthinking this though because he is one of the few guys that actually comes into the store with a Legacy deck and plays with random people on a regular basis, and he's one of the few people I can play with whenever there isn't an event. No, he doesn't run Spellskite.
Edit: Lmao, I forgot Anarchy was a card. However, since it's sorcery speed and 4cmc it wouldn't really help me out in that matchup, plus there's no other matchups aside from DNT and enchantress where this is worth bringing in.
Dope, I was thinking about putting some number of REB back into the side because of a friend I know playing a Rest In Peace enchantments deck that can easily shut out burn turn 3. REB is pretty much the only out for his lock without splashing for Destructive Revelry, but my friend also runs Misdirection in his side. If what you've said is correct then he has to use a counter to stop me from breaking the lock since he won't be controlling any other blue permanents.