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  • posted a message on Secret Lair - International Women's Day 2020
    Quote from FlossedBeaver »
    Quote from Xcric »
    that's true, but most don't see it that way...


    Do you have evidence to support this claim? All I see is a lot of handwringing over WotC’s new marketing or release schedule, all of it seemingly on principle. In fact, quite a few people here, amongst our local, vocal minority, are obviously happy to give many or most of these a pass. Do you see something I don’t, or are you just projecting?


    while i don't have those statistics i feel its incorrect to make that the take away from the argument. its not uncommon to see people complaining about wallet fatigue, you can visibly see that - twitter, instagram, facebook, here, etc. its not uncommon to walk into a game store and hear someone talking about how they have to buy X new product. its not uncommon to see the grab and go packs at big box stores get wiped out. we all have friends that have opted out because they felt they couldn't keep up, we also all have friends that buy everything, and we have friends that don't buy anything but keep playing. people buy stuff, so i think its more important to look at WHY they're buying stuff. so when you see people complaining a set is bad, or that their wallet is hurting, or they stop showing up for events - but product is STILL selling, you have to analyze why that might be instead of just saying wotc done good, we don't have statistics so lets just assume they're doing everything right. i mean, without that data you're restricted to anecdotal evidence and observable effects, that doesn't disqualify them.

    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Secret Lair - International Women's Day 2020
    i want to like this product, i really do. it supports a good cause, the cards included are pretty good, and the artwork is fantastic.

    that said...

    are we going to get these every 2 weeks now, what the ****? slow. this *****. down.

    there will come a point where people wash their hands of the game as a whole because of the volume of products released and an inability to keep up with what they want. that's the key point here, inability to keep up with what they want. some people say but you don't have to buy everything! that's true, but most don't see it that way and when it comes to alternate arts and fancy ***** like this people want it. you can't ignore that fact. want goes a long way here.

    also don't forget this product is a limited time offer. you miss out, you miss out. that mentality in its own right is exploitable, and we're seeing that here to a degree never before imagined. they're really running with the fomo (fear of missing out) mentality to a degree they've avoided in the past. it will bite them in the ass on a long enough time line but they've clearly taken the lessons of arena to heart and run with it.

    its kinda scummy to bump the price up to 50 bucks and then say its to support charity. i've seen a lot of talk over that point, how these went up in price and wotc will be the ones reaping the tax breaks from giving to charity while charging you more. i think there's some, not a lot, but some validity to that point. the cost to print these is most likely negligible, the tax break though will surely be tremendous and they dumped that onto you the consumer.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Introducing Jumpstart
    Quote from migrena »
    Quote from buffntuff »
    Quote from buffntuff »
    Jesus christ you miserable pill do you just want no one to ever play this game?


    I just want fair pricings. shocking, i know


    This is a card game, not a stock market. Go buy stocks! Way better roi. Or at least go do some real gambling instead.
    I think they ment "not diminishing value with each new product / iteration of old product".
    It's similar practice to food companies slowly decreasing the amount of product in the package while retaining the price and packaging. This kind of behavior is considered anti-consumer in civilized countries and unlawful in some. Here wotc is intending to provide less value to newer players compared to what they can get in normal booster packs. Newer players usually know less about how ev for mtg product works and therefore are the target for this product. Seeding this packs with few exclusive cards also creates the illusion of higher value by artificially inflating their price. This is also very consumer-unfriendly practice.


    And that doesnt even touch on the idea that you need the contents of a pack to hold some kind of value or people stop buying them and then the game dies real quick
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Introducing Jumpstart
    Okay now its really time to pump the ******* brakes.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on 2020 Challenger Deck Decklists
    while i like that they're putting more fabled passage and brazen borrowers out there i also don't. they're not that expensive and currently the only real reason to pick up those packs at all. its even more reason NOT to ever buy a pack. i'm getting fatigued by product bombardment, and frustrated at the complete destruction of any reason to ever pick up a pack.

    yes, the argument will be buy singles. that's fine. i certainly do that, and have for a long time. there's more to it than that and it effects long term sustainability. if there's minimal to zero reason to open packs, limited suffers because it just isn't worth showing up or paying out for, random events suffer because the rewards just aren't worth it, attendance drops, the lgs suffers, the game starts to suffer.

    we like to think its all end of the world cherry picked anecdotes and sky is falling unnecessary concern, but you can see it in attendance and sales. yes, magic does go through cycles like this where there's too much product and sets just aren't worth buying, and historically they've been good about correcting... but the emphasis has changed dramatically the past few sets.

    i find it ironic that they made this huge push to make opening packs fun again, and its had the complete and total opposite effect.

    i see a lot of emphasis on short term profit over sustainability and it has me genuinely worried for the future, for the first time in over 25 years playing this game.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on 2/14 Secret Lairs: Theros Stargazing
    Its all well and good to talk about but you also have to be able to flip things.

    A lot of the new theros stuff from premium packs i see people get excited for, then try to move them and they cant. A huge portion of ftv cards just sit and rot. Most of these stand a good chance of being sold at a loss despite what paper says.

    Regardless, theyre getting a ton of flak thrown at them for these products.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on 2/14 Secret Lairs: Theros Stargazing
    not impressed with these. too expensive. too little content. 3 gods with alt art. woopeedoo.

    i'd have been sold on these at this price point if they also included the weapons and nykthos maybe. as is? really tired of this product already.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on 5 New Secret Lairs to be announced on Feb 14
    While I find the constant products annoying, it’s not so bad. Those who want the secret lairs get them, and those who do not will not. I don’t feel like I missed out on anything b my skipping the others because I could care less about their contents or collecting those cards. If this one has Theros gods, it’ll be the first I care for. If not, Ill skip it. I think too many players have this mentality of needing to have every exclusive product just in case it becomes an investment in the future. How about players just pursue what actually interests them and let go of that hoarding mentality?


    Okay great. A lot do that. Most dont. Wotc exploits that for profit. Cant really dispute that
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Wich Ulamog is more powerful?
    it seems tough at first to make a choice, but i think the gyre wins out.

    sure, he'll destroy a permanent instead of exiling 2 so in that regard the ceaseless hunger edges him out. what really does it for me though is the annihilator 4. exiling 20 cards on attack is nice sometimes, other times it doesn't neuter the person you're attacking enough because you might not exile the pieces they need to win. the annihilator 4 though? that can do some serious damage to someone. i've had more than one game where someone resolves gyre, hits the most problematic permanent on my board, then swings in (by giving him haste) and completely cripples me. conversely i've had ceaseless hunger exile 2 problematic permanents on my board, swing in exile 20 cards from my deck... and then i combo off. people like to think mill/exiling library is effective and stopping people's gameplans but unless you're hitting everything they need to win you're not really doing anything - and it takes far too many attacks to actually cripple someone through the exiles.

    there's also the last clause about shuffling back in. that goes a long way to completely crippling mill strategies, or lets me recycle my entire deck. that in itself is incredibly strong.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
  • posted a message on 5 New Secret Lairs to be announced on Feb 14
    Quote from user_938036 »
    The sad truth is, Magic doesn’t just have to sell well. It must continue to sell better than it previously did. Otherwise, Hasbro will trim its funding. And that means layoffs. I have a sad feeling these are genuine artists who do love this game, simply fighting for survival against corporate demand.

    Frankly, with every horrid, insidious and deliberately evil thing I had seen Konami get away with in my 12 year tenure in Yugioh, believe me when I insist that Secret Lair, Masters sets, product fatigue, and literally every plausible complaint a Magic player could possibly conceive is vastly mild in comparison. I cannot stress this enough.
    While I don't know everything Konomi did I know their general trend was awful. But while there are similarities in what magic is doing there is one HUGE difference between these games that makes what they are doing radically different. Yugioh only has one real format(as far as I can tell) which makes all of their products targeted at the same audience. Magic has over a 11 official constructed formats plus a dozenish variations on those formats. Meaning that not all of their products are aimed at the same people. I can understand that some people see release after release and are overwhelmed but when you realize the different targets it doesn't seem so saturated. If you look at the last two releases you can immediately see this. Theros and Unsanctioned. While there might be overlap their actual targets are radically different. Next up is Secret Lair and that could target Commander or Legacy or Modern players so once more a completely different target. If you are one of those who falls under "anything magic" then yes you are hit by a lot of splash damage but people aren't supposed to be "anything magic related"; they are expected to fall into a few categories but not all of them.


    we like to think this, but what magic players are in the game strictly for X format?

    its a misconception. even the people who strictly draft often buy limited release product. the people who play commander are into everything. legacy players will pick up what they need from new sets. yes, there are a wide array of ways to play magic, but magic players gobble up everything thrown at them. even more so when you start planting cards for other formats in products. we like to think they don't market products at the entire market, but they really do and we eat it up.

    how many commander precons have sold because of a legacy plant. how many secret lairs sold because people liked the art, or are into goblins. the grim reality is magic products are aimed toward magic players. its our own little bubbles that make us think they're not aimed at us, or a particular subset of players.

    hell that doesn't even account for the lotto aspect of things. how many packs have you seen cracked playing the *insert card name* lotto.

    they want dollars. they're not going to design and release products aimed squarely at one audience when they can aim it all of them. the minute we start accepting that fact we can stop fooling ourselves and push for legitimate change.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on 5 New Secret Lairs to be announced on Feb 14
    the wallet fatigue is just too real.

    they need to slow the **** down. focus on making products i want to buy longer term (better sets) and shy away from gimmicky short print run stuff that i feel like i HAVE to buy or i miss out.

    there's just too much crap on the market competing for my dollars. i'd rather see a sustainable higher quality lower priced product than these relatively expensive avalanche style releases.

    yeah yeah, you don't have to buy every product, and not every product is for every player. i skip the large majority of them, but its also caused me to lose interest in a lot of the draft and standard format stuff because of decreased quality. they're definitely exploiting the ***** out of the FOMO mentality and its nauseating. it also gets really frustrating to be bombarded with product releases worth it or otherwise, over a longer period it just erodes interest in the over all product. when you have to pick and choose because you're having so much thrown in your face, ultimately you just kind of... move on to something that you can enjoy at a less frenetic pace.

    also betting that this is where the oubliette reprint happens, and people will be rightfully angry about it.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on oubliette is. Coming soon in a set
    i don't really think it being a french word should bar it from a greek themed set given how many words english borrows from other languages, but sure okay.

    either way, its long over due but i'll believe it when i see it.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on [THB] Thassa, Deep-Dwelling
    Fact: Hardly anyone bothers to run Homeward Path.


    People should jam this thing into any deck they build. I used to, but then a friend of mine made a crappy Beckett Brass deck i felt like a jerk using it


    they should... but they don't. i think a big part of it is that it's somewhat difficult to come by still, and when you don't face any theft effects consistently it just feels like a dead land that you wish was producing colored mana
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on World Championship Weekend promo Crucible of Worlds
    Quote from Flamebuster »
    Quote from leslak »
    The art looks good even if i m not sure what it is depicting XD

    I'm not gonna lie...it looked like an ethereal anus having an epic bowel movement, but that's just me.

    TBH I prefer the original artwork to this. To be even more honest I prefer the old artwork on the classic pre-8th frame.

    'buster
    It looked to me like someone gaping their anus to liberate a tapeworm


    finally, someone who sees the world as i do.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • posted a message on Ikoria Lair of Behemoths promotional art from THB boosters
    Quote from H3RAC71TU5 »
    Quote from Ritokure »
    Quote from Xcric »
    i don't doubt that at all, though i do hope white gets efficient removal to deal with those threats. efficiency being key. it'llmost likely be something stupid like 4W, exile target creature with a power greater than 5 or something that's just trash like that.
    White has its problems but removal is not one of them. If we give White more efficient removal, all that's going to do is make Esper or Azorius Control better and White will still be crap. What White needs is more tools to do things other than play a bunch of weenies, gain life and proceed to scoop phase as soon as an opponent draws a wrath.


    Can you expand your thoughts on the other things white should be able to do? After red's recent makeover it seems like it's white's turn again.


    i'd actually like to see white interact with the stack more. its blues thing sure, but why does that only have to be one color in the entire game's thing? so, expand on that idea, not necessarily in ways that blue does like counter target spell, more like... stifling abilities, delaying spells, redirecting them maybe, maybe spells that have effects based on other spells being on the stack, maybe something new like changing effects to something else, that sorta thing. there's a ton of options to explore there. combat tricks would also be nice to see developed a little more, not necessarily red's style of smash face, or green's make it big and smash face, but something more like... like that one commander spell that ends the combat phase, or darien king of kjeldor but as an instant style stuff. it'll never happen, but white also needs a better identity than what it currently has which is still kind of not one at all. its consistently labeled a support color, but it doesn't even do that all that well. it adds some tools sometimes to a greater package but those tools don't necessarily work everywhere either. i'd also love to see it go back to the weenies matter route, but to do that it has to be more aggressive too - more meekstone effects, more turning off abilities, more to do than just make 1/1's and 2/2's.

    right now feels like just before they revamped black - where it was kind of okay at a lot of things but not really (this is going back to before torment), or just before they revamped red over the past year, which opened up so many more options recently and made the color much more fun to play in environments that aren't just burn.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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