As an early adopter of the Standard Spirits deck during EMN, I know how Rattlechains can be a toolbox creature. It can 1) Be flashed in to chip-in damage, especially against Storm or other decks where you want to hold up mana for counterpsells and where you need a constant source of damage; 2) Flash in Geist of Saint Traft; 3) Protect Spell Queller from targeted removal.
That said, I am still learning to play the deck (and modern in general), so I am wondering if it really makes sense to sacrifice Serum Visions for an additional creature.
I'm also very intrigued by this list for all the reasons you state - its def worthy of testing and i'll be doing so over the next week(s). I wont be going to less then 3-4x Serum Visions - so ill have to find something else to cut..
I am considering trying the Rattlechains as well. I also don't want to remove the Serums. I am considering something like this:
Also considering 3 Colonnades and 3 Islands for the mana base instead since we are going down to 23 lands. Maybe 3 is better and safer than 4 colonnades.
Will likely test this next week at some Local Modern Events
4 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
4 Thought Scour
2 Claim
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
1 Sleight of Hand
4 Thoughtseize
Sideboard
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Anger of the Gods
1 By Force
2 Collective Brutality
1 Dreadbore
I have been Curious of the YP Lists, I think which you take can be personal preference to a degree and meta dependent.
In the same SCG tournament the highest placing Death's Shadow was a traditional build. With 18 lands and a single Slight of hands. So it seems the traditional build didn't get hated out to the point where a YP version would place higher.
Creatures (16)
4 Death's Shadow
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Keranos is a rather slow engine of card advantage but AV is just a better source of card advantage vs. those matchups. He was better in twin when you could remand your opponent to death and tap dudes for days. Add in the fact that it can be easily removed now by nahiri's -2 and you have a card that is now in an awkward spot. There's also the fact that lists at most run 20 land and don't expect to hit 5 lands very oftenin these decks.AV is just cheaper and more efficient and slots in nicely for delvers when the matchup calls for it.
Nahiri's -2 requires the permanent to be tapped to exile. Do Nahiri decks have a reliable way to tap permanents?
[deck]Maindeck (60 cards)
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
1 Blood Crypt
3=2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Sulfur falls
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Young Pyromancer
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Thought Scour
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Mana leaks
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Terminate
1 Deprive
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Murderous Cut
1 Shadow of Doubt (This has been the last slot that I have been unable to make up my mind. Shadow of doubt has under performed) Maybe a singleton Remand/Dispel? Extra terminate? Just make it a Snap caster?
Spell pierce has been house.
Have not really missed Remands or elecrtolyze.
So far the deck continues to impress me, tight technical play makes it that you are in every game.
As for your list, I have little comments since it is so close to my list. I like it, I think the small subtle difference are preference. I love running 7-8 counter spells.
And I am happy with the 3 Snaps really. If I add the 4th I will swap out murderous cut for terminate.
But I love cut. It dodges Spell Snare and Eidolon, and allows 1 mana kill spells to happen. Thought scouring it allows us to snap it back in. Or sometimes we cast it early and can flash it back for 1 mana.
Didn't mention sideboard as that is meta dependent, but I am willing to post mine if anyone care.
Decided to go back to my Death's Shadow plan for my sideboard since it has proven to be stronger against decks like zoo and other decks that we tend to have bad matchups. Here is an updated list for that deck:
the reason why i am back on this list is because it puts us back on the aggression strategy instead of the control role more often, which is something we'd rather do most of the time anyways. Additions to the board include Dreadbore and Hibernation. Dreadbore is good in this deck since we normally have a tough time killing a planeswalker that can escape bolt range and also just kills a threat outright. If only it were an instant...
Hibernation is currently a concession to the amount of collected company X decks running running around, including elves, zoo, and melira. Also i am toying around with a 4th snapcaster mage instead of a 3rd gurmag since it allows more buyback for our kill spells.
Edit: going back to somewhat basics here based off of the list by Phil Pratt who did well at the scg premier IQ this weekend, found myself getting too greedy with the cards in the deck, felt like going back a step is the right thing to do here. So I am back on the rending volley plan, still have in death's shadow but only as a 2 of, 1 vandalblast since it deals with artifacts turn 1, and also adding 1 electrolyze mainboard to deal with low toughness creatures.
Heym can you link to the Phil Prat list you mentioned in your post?
Is Spell Pierce really that good? It seems to be very unpleasant lategame and an easy choice for the opponent to return from Tasigur's ability.
And what about Shadow of Doubt, btw? Is it reasonable to play one copy maindeck instead of, for example, second Electrolyze?
You should be delving the Spell pierce away casting tasigur/angler/Murderous cut (if running it)
With that said. When games go grindy and you top deck that pierce, it hurts. But it is amazing for the temp plan. I have added 2 to my main deck and I am loving it.
my counter suite is as follows:
2 mana leaks
2 snares
2 pierce
1 remand
1 deprive
I got 4th using this at a recent PPTQ and pierce was a house all day, until the semi finals where finally showed where it can be bad, late game.
Sadly, I am not to good at reports, otherwise I would have done a full one for the PPTQ. But I did order a small little ear peice camera that I am going to start recording my live matches at the upcoming PPTQ's and regular Modern events to be able to review my self, and post up for criticism as well as maybe help people who want to see the deck in action by a not so good delver player. lol
Yep, I found it pretty surprising, but while testing Affinity I found out I have a decent Delver MU. But I haven't tested well the MU the other way around (me playing Delver). Etched Champion was the all star for me against Delver, but Spellskite also proved very good.
But yea...pack some hate...because I think game 1 favors Affinity, and then you have to win two in a row, which is never easy.
Def game 1 is tough. I run Spell pierce in my main and it helps a lot to keep them off metal craft early on if you are on the play.
I won a game piercing a drum on the play then Murderous cutting a memnite in response to A DRUM (their only creature at the time. They had an inactive Mox opal the entire game and 1 dark steel land.
I feel counters are pretty strong in this match up. (not remand) but def the 1 mana ones.
They kill the man lands and all their 1 toughness creatures at instant speed. I'm siding in the death's shadow to have a big clock when they start to chip away at your life. Bringing a 4/4 or bigger for 1 mana and having backup mana really helps this match up.
2 damage to the dome and draw a card is net natural in cards. Not sure if that's still considered a 2 for 1. But like you said, that is why I prefer 2 K commands and moving lyse to th3 board or out of the deck all together.
I hate how on MTG Goldfish they are lumping both Grixis Control and Grixis Delver together although they are different archetypes.
I was able to get 4th in a 7 ro7nd PPTQ yesterday.
++
Top8 at Gran Prix Copenhagen and first place at SCG Premier IQ Indianapolis, very encouraging.
Didn't test a deck for a bit, so have a couple questions:
Why we stopped playing Murderous Cut?
Is [4 Scour, 3 Probe] really better than vice versa? I mean flooding with Thought Scours can be really annoying, especially in the early game.
And finally, 18 or 19 lands?
I run 2 terminates and a single murderous cut still. I like 1 mana rem9val options for the twin match up. As for flooding with thoutht scours. What do you mean? It's never a dead card. Fuels our yard and replaces itself. I prefer 4 scours over 4 probes. I also run 18 lands. But I'm not adept enough to explain why that's worked for me. It's worked so I haven't changed it. One thing I did add was the 2 spell peirce and removed the 2 remands. Spell peirce was a house some games. Really digging them. Might add a remand and remove electrolyze with the lack of lingering souls lately.
Grixis control becoming a thing and using bolts. Do you bring in deaths shadow against them or still board like they are traditional control. Counters and cliques etc?
Against Grixis control i do bring in death's shadow, however, since they are a control deck, clique is still viable. Here is how i would approach the matchup
I side out bolts here because against grixis control, there isn't any real targets for bolt besides their face and snapcaster mage, which you don't normally want to bolt to begin with. Delver comes out because he is a target for opposing bolts. Clique can come in because it interacts with the opponent's hand and can be casted on their turn. Thoughtseize helps us get rid of counter magic or haymakers like keranos or jace while also creating a jund like grind strategy. We have a fairly even matchup overall, similar to jund where its a 50/50ish chance to win.
I was hoping someone can shed some light on the Eldrazi Taxes match-up for Geist Temp.
I feel that I am losing the match-up because of me as it should not be so tough.
One of the biggest dilemmas I am having is sidebaording.
This is my current list. Any advise would be great! (Side board in general advise is super welcome too!)
Creatures
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Spell Queller
Instant/Sorcery Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Serum Visions
2 Spell Snare
3 Lightning Helix
2 Logic Knot
2 Electrolyze
4 Cryptic Command
Lands
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
Side Board
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Dispel
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Negate
2 Search for Azcanta
1 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Abrade
I am considering trying the Rattlechains as well. I also don't want to remove the Serums. I am considering something like this:
23 LANDS
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Flooded Strand
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
13 CREATURES
3 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Rattlechains
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Spell Queller
24 INSTANTS and SORC.
4 Serum Visions
3 Cryptic Command
2 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
2 Logic Knot
4 Path to Exile
2 Spell Snare
Also considering 3 Colonnades and 3 Islands for the mana base instead since we are going down to 23 lands. Maybe 3 is better and safer than 4 colonnades.
Will likely test this next week at some Local Modern Events
I have been Curious of the YP Lists, I think which you take can be personal preference to a degree and meta dependent.
In the same SCG tournament the highest placing Death's Shadow was a traditional build. With 18 lands and a single Slight of hands. So it seems the traditional build didn't get hated out to the point where a YP version would place higher.
Creatures (16)
4 Death's Shadow
2 Gurmag Angler
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Lands (18)
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
Spells (26)
4 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Stubborn Denial
2 Terminate
4 Thought Scour
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
1 Sleight of Hand
4 Thoughtseize
Sideboard
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Stubborn Denial
2 Temur Battle Rage
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Collective Brutality
2 Flaying Tendrils
Oh, ouch. :/
That hurts. Thanks!
Nahiri's -2 requires the permanent to be tapped to exile. Do Nahiri decks have a reliable way to tap permanents?
Very similar to mine.
My list:
[deck]Maindeck (60 cards)
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Watery Grave
2 Steam Vents
1 Blood Crypt
3=2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Sulfur falls
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Young Pyromancer
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Gurmag Angler
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Thought Scour
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Mana leaks
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Terminate
1 Deprive
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Murderous Cut
1 Shadow of Doubt (This has been the last slot that I have been unable to make up my mind. Shadow of doubt has under performed) Maybe a singleton Remand/Dispel? Extra terminate? Just make it a Snap caster?
Spell pierce has been house.
Have not really missed Remands or elecrtolyze.
So far the deck continues to impress me, tight technical play makes it that you are in every game.
As for your list, I have little comments since it is so close to my list. I like it, I think the small subtle difference are preference. I love running 7-8 counter spells.
And I am happy with the 3 Snaps really. If I add the 4th I will swap out murderous cut for terminate.
But I love cut. It dodges Spell Snare and Eidolon, and allows 1 mana kill spells to happen. Thought scouring it allows us to snap it back in. Or sometimes we cast it early and can flash it back for 1 mana.
Didn't mention sideboard as that is meta dependent, but I am willing to post mine if anyone care.
Heym can you link to the Phil Prat list you mentioned in your post?
How are you liking the lack of Remands and Mana Leaks? I have considered upping my Deprives to 2 and either 1 remand or mana leak.
You should be delving the Spell pierce away casting tasigur/angler/Murderous cut (if running it)
With that said. When games go grindy and you top deck that pierce, it hurts. But it is amazing for the temp plan. I have added 2 to my main deck and I am loving it.
my counter suite is as follows:
2 mana leaks
2 snares
2 pierce
1 remand
1 deprive
I got 4th using this at a recent PPTQ and pierce was a house all day, until the semi finals where finally showed where it can be bad, late game.
Sadly, I am not to good at reports, otherwise I would have done a full one for the PPTQ. But I did order a small little ear peice camera that I am going to start recording my live matches at the upcoming PPTQ's and regular Modern events to be able to review my self, and post up for criticism as well as maybe help people who want to see the deck in action by a not so good delver player. lol
Def game 1 is tough. I run Spell pierce in my main and it helps a lot to keep them off metal craft early on if you are on the play.
I won a game piercing a drum on the play then Murderous cutting a memnite in response to A DRUM (their only creature at the time. They had an inactive Mox opal the entire game and 1 dark steel land.
I feel counters are pretty strong in this match up. (not remand) but def the 1 mana ones.
Out:
4 - Delvers
3- Probes
1- Remand
In
3 - Death's Shadow
1 - Spellskite
2 - Izzet Static Casters
1 - Vandalblast
1 - Engineered Explosions
I run 2 terminates and a single murderous cut still. I like 1 mana rem9val options for the twin match up. As for flooding with thoutht scours. What do you mean? It's never a dead card. Fuels our yard and replaces itself. I prefer 4 scours over 4 probes. I also run 18 lands. But I'm not adept enough to explain why that's worked for me. It's worked so I haven't changed it. One thing I did add was the 2 spell peirce and removed the 2 remands. Spell peirce was a house some games. Really digging them. Might add a remand and remove electrolyze with the lack of lingering souls lately.
Thanks, gonna give that a try.