How did the MU's go? Did you get to be on the play game 1? What part of the meta you reckon Liliana, the last Hope lines up well against? (I have yet to acquire this card.)
Against Merfolk i was on the play. The games were somewhat easy. Maybe my opponent just kept weird hands. With the tons of removal our deck feels very strong, the only worrysome moment would be if they have a Spreading Seas and atleast 2 Lords to make their creatures Bolt proof and unblockable. Other than that it is very straightforward.
Against Bogles i won game 1 on the play because i had discard on turn 1, tons of Souls and Pyromancer token to chump and eventually win in the air with Spirits. Game 2 Blood Moon was a winner because it screwed my opponent super hard out of pumping 2-3 auras per turn. Also Explosives + Surgical is great against them as they only have 8 dangerous threats in their deck.
Not much to say about the UW Draw. Either you manage to rush it with Rabblemaster or you get Terminused out of the game. Pretty boring MU in my opinion.
Scapeshift and Dredge were horrible though i just did not see any Blood Moons against Scapeshift and no Gravehate against Dredge. I feel like those are "Draw or Bust" Matchups.
Jeskai "Can't Lose" was actually a fun game. It got super close and in the end my opponent won with burn after i went to 1. Discard and a Clock do the trick as so often.
About Liliana: She is great against Merfolk, Humans, Spirits, sometimes even Jund, the mirror... Either killing a creature every turn or buying back a Pyro/Reveler/Rabblemaster is a great deal for 3 mana. She is easy enough to cast to warrant a permanent SB slot, maybe even MD if you expect a creature based meta, in my opinion.
I have played a modern tournament last sunday finishing 3-3-1. Started off with solid 3-0-1, then proceeded to get unfair Matchups.
I can not remember the last MU at all but it was a win:
Merfolk (W)
Bogles (W)
UW "No Wincon" Control (D)
4c Scapeshift (L)
Dredge (L)
Jeskai "Can't Lose" (L)
I was very happy with my maindeck, especially the MD Rabblemasters did a lot of work. Having a clock that goes from 1 to 6 is really nice.
In the sideboard i came to dislike the Experimental Frenzy a lot. It is just WAY too slow and does not synergize well with Reveler and Looting.
Hazoret felt a bit clunky and overkill with the MD Rabblemasters.
I have already exchanged these cards with a 2nd Wear//Tear and 3 Molten Rain. That feels more "at home".
Between Hazoret from the SB and Rabblemaster from the MD i think this list packs quite a punch and is also more resilient to gravehate such as Leyline which can turn Reveler from a 10/10 to a 1/10 very quickly.
As a Tron player myself i have to say that a Turn 3 Blood Moon followed by one Pyromancer or Reveler is really not worrying at all.
I always board in Nature's Claims so Alpine Moon might have the same problems as Blood Moon (that is dying very fast) but if you play smart and play Discard on Turn 1 and A-Moon on Turn 2 followed by something like Rabblemaster oder Hazoret on Turn 3/4 it's looking a lot darker.
I like the idea. I would be worried about a deck that has cheap disruption followed by a fast clock like Rabblemaster.
Excited to see what Hazoret and Kambal can do. So far i have never played with these cards in Modern.
Edit: I am also testing if Manamorphose or Night's Whisper is better. It feels like Night's Whisper is decent in Grindy and Controll-ish MUs but Manamorphose is great fixing under a Blood Moon, a free spell for Reveler/Pyromancer but generates no card advantage.
First, consider the case of Nature's Claim versus Natural State. Every Dredge player seems to agree that hitting Leyline is more important than 4 life. Our main goal with Assassin's Trophy is to destroy sideboard hate, but we are rarely certain of what the opponent will bring in. I think every single deck out there can play Leyline of the Void if sideboard space is available, so it's great to be ready for it.
However Nature's Claim is still played. Based on your argument there should just be 4 Trophy boarded in all the time as it catches everything and other anti-hate is strictly worse anyway?
About Leyline: Well, yes. But there are decks where you can expect Leyline but i do not think that any deck would really "surprise" me with Leyline. Like, UW Control jamming a Leyline for example. They would just never play that. Same for Tron, Jund, Abzan etc.
Second, consider the case of Assassin's Trophy over Abrupt Decay in GBx decks. It's commonly agreed that the former is better than the latter (twice as many copies per list on average for Trophy). On top of our main goal, Assassin's Trophy is a great card on its own and can be played profitably in many situations were there is no graveyard hate.
The GBx decks that run Trophy instead of Decay are midrange decks though.
Dredge is, atleast in my opinion, not a midrange deck and a midrange gameplan of casting removal for grinding is not what you want to be doing?
I am aware that matches can get grindy and sloppy postboard but even then Decay does the same job as Trophy.
Do not get me wrong, i have not played with Trophy yet. On paper the upside of playing it just seems very very slim and the upside of Decay seems more relevant, atleast to me.
After watching some videos of Dredge and playing it for one FNM i come to wonder:
Why is Assassin's Trophy played over Abrupt Decay?
I understand it is the new "hot stuff" but what does it hit that Decay does not hit, except for Leyline? RIP, Ooze, Relic, Tormod's, Spellbomb and the like all get hit by it aswell without ramping our opponent.
The "can not be countered" clause is also very relevant against Control MUs. To me it seems like Decay is still just better for us?
Boarding it in against something like Tron seems underwhelming as it does not further our gameplan and Tron has huge inevitability.
I am not yet sure about the Rabblemasters in the sideboard. I imagine they are nice to have against control, tron and slow decks in general when we are the aggro deck.
Blessed Alliance is in there due to Geist of Saint Traft PTSD. I lost too many times to that card.
Explosives Seems like a nice catch-all card and is basically a staple in 3 Color decks to me.
To be fair i have no actual experience with the deck yet.
However requiring white does not seem like that big of an issue as you need it anyway for Lingering Souls?
My problem with Trumpet Blast is just that you have to keep a "dead" card in hand and have no access to it when you discard it. Rally is something your opponent has to play around, it is fodder for Reveler, pitchable to Faithless Looting.
Personally, if i played either of these cards it would be Rally. The upsides outweigh the downsides by a lot imo.
What is the argument for Trumpet Blast over, say, Rally the Peasants or Scourge Devil? Both can be pitched to looting if they are currently dead and be played again.
I am just picking this deck up for the first time. There are a lot of different lists out there and to me it feels like there is no "Stock" list, is that correct?
I do not have a sideboard laid out as of now. I figure i want some number of Molten Rains, Surgicals and maybe Nihil Spellbombs? I am really not sure what to do here because i am not used to playing "fair" midrange decks.
@ PraiseTheKappa - Welcome to the forum, I don't know how I feel about a basic forest and swamp in the 75. I was running a single basic forest for a little while and ran into a few situations where I wanted to Conflagrate into a Faithless Looting but had one Forest and two Rx lands in play. Ultimately, we really only care about a small handful of red cards to cast and I think one or two basic Mountains is enough to play around Path to Exile; Field of Ruin and Assassin's Trophy only stall as we can get most of those targets back again when our engine is online. Shriekhorn is four in the yard by the next draw step while Insolent Neonate need you to have a Dredge card in hand. Most list are also trimming on Dredgers for Creeping Chill and not having to mulligan as often due to Neonate needing a Dredger is nice.
Thanks for the insight!
I have played Dredge some time ago and also only played 1 Mountain. I played a 2nd Dakmor Salvage und a Canyon Slough in those places, would that still be viable? I found the instant speed Dredge to be very nice to set up my board and untapping with some Amalgams.
About Shriekhorn: You are absolutely right, that makes sense. Fewer Dredgers hurts the power of Neonate quite a bit. If 4 Shriekhorn the recommended amount or is it more like 2-4?
Against Merfolk i was on the play. The games were somewhat easy. Maybe my opponent just kept weird hands. With the tons of removal our deck feels very strong, the only worrysome moment would be if they have a Spreading Seas and atleast 2 Lords to make their creatures Bolt proof and unblockable. Other than that it is very straightforward.
Against Bogles i won game 1 on the play because i had discard on turn 1, tons of Souls and Pyromancer token to chump and eventually win in the air with Spirits. Game 2 Blood Moon was a winner because it screwed my opponent super hard out of pumping 2-3 auras per turn. Also Explosives + Surgical is great against them as they only have 8 dangerous threats in their deck.
Not much to say about the UW Draw. Either you manage to rush it with Rabblemaster or you get Terminused out of the game. Pretty boring MU in my opinion.
Scapeshift and Dredge were horrible though i just did not see any Blood Moons against Scapeshift and no Gravehate against Dredge. I feel like those are "Draw or Bust" Matchups.
Jeskai "Can't Lose" was actually a fun game. It got super close and in the end my opponent won with burn after i went to 1. Discard and a Clock do the trick as so often.
About Liliana: She is great against Merfolk, Humans, Spirits, sometimes even Jund, the mirror... Either killing a creature every turn or buying back a Pyro/Reveler/Rabblemaster is a great deal for 3 mana. She is easy enough to cast to warrant a permanent SB slot, maybe even MD if you expect a creature based meta, in my opinion.
I can not remember the last MU at all but it was a win:
Merfolk (W)
Bogles (W)
UW "No Wincon" Control (D)
4c Scapeshift (L)
Dredge (L)
Jeskai "Can't Lose" (L)
This was my list:
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
2 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Dreadbore
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Faithless Looting
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Collective Brutality
4 Lingering Souls
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
2 Fatal Push
2 Blood Moon
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Experimental Frenzy
1 Wear//Tear
2 Stony Silence
1 Liliana the last Hope
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
I was very happy with my maindeck, especially the MD Rabblemasters did a lot of work. Having a clock that goes from 1 to 6 is really nice.
In the sideboard i came to dislike the Experimental Frenzy a lot. It is just WAY too slow and does not synergize well with Reveler and Looting.
Hazoret felt a bit clunky and overkill with the MD Rabblemasters.
I have already exchanged these cards with a 2nd Wear//Tear and 3 Molten Rain. That feels more "at home".
If you have any specific questions, ask away!
3 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Fatal Push
1 Terminate
1 Dreadbore
4 Lingering Souls
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Faithless Looting
2 Collective Brutality
2 Blood Moon OR Alpine Moon
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear//Tear
2 Stony Silence
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2 Hazoret the Fervent
3 Molten Rain
Between Hazoret from the SB and Rabblemaster from the MD i think this list packs quite a punch and is also more resilient to gravehate such as Leyline which can turn Reveler from a 10/10 to a 1/10 very quickly.
I always board in Nature's Claims so Alpine Moon might have the same problems as Blood Moon (that is dying very fast) but if you play smart and play Discard on Turn 1 and A-Moon on Turn 2 followed by something like Rabblemaster oder Hazoret on Turn 3/4 it's looking a lot darker.
I like the idea. I would be worried about a deck that has cheap disruption followed by a fast clock like Rabblemaster.
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
1 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Plains
2 Blood Crypt
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Sacred Foundry
Instants/Sorceries
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Terminate
1 Dreadbore
2 Fatal Push
1 Night's Whisper
4 Lingering Souls
2 Collective Brutality
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Bedlam Reveler
Enchantments
2 Blood Moon
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Hazoret, the Fervent
2 Molten Rain
1 Liliana, the last Hope
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Wear//Tear
2 Stony Silence
1 Engineered Explosives
Excited to see what Hazoret and Kambal can do. So far i have never played with these cards in Modern.
Edit: I am also testing if Manamorphose or Night's Whisper is better. It feels like Night's Whisper is decent in Grindy and Controll-ish MUs but Manamorphose is great fixing under a Blood Moon, a free spell for Reveler/Pyromancer but generates no card advantage.
Experimental Frenzy, Arclight Phoenixes, tons of Planeswalkers. Looked rad but clunky as hell. What do you all think?
Edit: Credit goes to Roope Metsas. It's his list taken from the WotC website.
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
Creature (10)
2 Arclight Phoenix
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Young Pyromancer
Sorcery (18)
2 Collective Brutality
1 Dreadbore
4 Faithless Looting
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
2 Fatal Push
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Terminate
Enchantment (2)
2 Blood Moon
Land (20)
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
2 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Swamp
1 Experimental Frenzy
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Molten Rain
2 Pithing Needle
2 Stony Silence
1 Worship
Errr, Mishra's Factory is not modern legal? I assume you mean two tron pieces?
However Nature's Claim is still played. Based on your argument there should just be 4 Trophy boarded in all the time as it catches everything and other anti-hate is strictly worse anyway?
About Leyline: Well, yes. But there are decks where you can expect Leyline but i do not think that any deck would really "surprise" me with Leyline. Like, UW Control jamming a Leyline for example. They would just never play that. Same for Tron, Jund, Abzan etc.
The GBx decks that run Trophy instead of Decay are midrange decks though.
Dredge is, atleast in my opinion, not a midrange deck and a midrange gameplan of casting removal for grinding is not what you want to be doing?
I am aware that matches can get grindy and sloppy postboard but even then Decay does the same job as Trophy.
Do not get me wrong, i have not played with Trophy yet. On paper the upside of playing it just seems very very slim and the upside of Decay seems more relevant, atleast to me.
Why is Assassin's Trophy played over Abrupt Decay?
I understand it is the new "hot stuff" but what does it hit that Decay does not hit, except for Leyline? RIP, Ooze, Relic, Tormod's, Spellbomb and the like all get hit by it aswell without ramping our opponent.
The "can not be countered" clause is also very relevant against Control MUs. To me it seems like Decay is still just better for us?
Boarding it in against something like Tron seems underwhelming as it does not further our gameplan and Tron has huge inevitability.
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Blood Crypt
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Mountain
2 Swmap
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lingering Souls
2 Terminate
2 Fatal Push
1 Dreadbore
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
1 Manamorphose
2 Stony Silence
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Lightning Helix
3 Molten Rain
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Engineered Explosives
I am not yet sure about the Rabblemasters in the sideboard. I imagine they are nice to have against control, tron and slow decks in general when we are the aggro deck.
Blessed Alliance is in there due to Geist of Saint Traft PTSD. I lost too many times to that card.
Explosives Seems like a nice catch-all card and is basically a staple in 3 Color decks to me.
However requiring white does not seem like that big of an issue as you need it anyway for Lingering Souls?
My problem with Trumpet Blast is just that you have to keep a "dead" card in hand and have no access to it when you discard it. Rally is something your opponent has to play around, it is fodder for Reveler, pitchable to Faithless Looting.
Personally, if i played either of these cards it would be Rally. The upsides outweigh the downsides by a lot imo.
What is the argument for Trumpet Blast over, say, Rally the Peasants or Scourge Devil? Both can be pitched to looting if they are currently dead and be played again.
I am just picking this deck up for the first time. There are a lot of different lists out there and to me it feels like there is no "Stock" list, is that correct?
Here is the list i am currently putting together:
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Arid Mesa
2 Marsh Flats
2 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Yound Pyromancer
Instants/Sorceries
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Dreadbore
4 Lingering Souls
4 Faithless Looting
2 Collective Brutality
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
2 Fatal Push
3 Kolaghan's Command
1 Liliana, the last Hope
Enchantments
2 Blood Moon
I do not have a sideboard laid out as of now. I figure i want some number of Molten Rains, Surgicals and maybe Nihil Spellbombs? I am really not sure what to do here because i am not used to playing "fair" midrange decks.
Thanks in advance!
Thanks for the insight!
I have played Dredge some time ago and also only played 1 Mountain. I played a 2nd Dakmor Salvage und a Canyon Slough in those places, would that still be viable? I found the instant speed Dredge to be very nice to set up my board and untapping with some Amalgams.
About Shriekhorn: You are absolutely right, that makes sense. Fewer Dredgers hurts the power of Neonate quite a bit. If 4 Shriekhorn the recommended amount or is it more like 2-4?
I am picking up dredge again after a long hiatus.
Here is the list i am going to try:
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Gemstone Mine
3 Copperline Gorge
1 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Stomping Ground
2 Blood Crypt
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Dakmoor Salvage
4 Faithless Looting
4 Cathartic Reunion
3 Conflagrate
3 Life from the Loam
4 Creeping Chill
1 Darkblast
Artifacts:
3 Shriekhorn
Creatures:
4 Stinkweed Imp
2 Golgari Thug
4 Narcomoeba
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Bloodghast
3 Nature's Claim
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Lightning Axe
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Thoughtseize
This is just a list i tossed up yesterday evening and would like to hear some opinions on it.
Why are Shriekhorn played over Insolent Neonate right now? Neonate always felt pretty explosive on turn 1.