I have 3 Shield of the Oversoul and 3 Oblivion Ring main, I may end up going with the Wheel if I can't find anything better, but I think I can count on them having Wispmare's. I'm looking for some sort of plan with the potential to really swing the chances in my favor...
I've been testing with a green white deck like the one in BDM's article on Friday. Basically it's G/W aggro with Gaddock Teeg and Shield of the Oversoul. I like the deck and it does fairly well against the field, other than the Elemental deck. I'm looking for sideboard options and nothing I can come up with seems good enough.
I will have 3-4 Crib Swap in the side no matter what, and they will all come in, but I need more and better options. I have though about Wheel of Sun and Moon, but most of the Elemental decks are playing at least one Wispmare main (with 4 Harbingers)
In BDM's article last week he had some deck lists from a block PTQ, one of which was a "10 Commandments" deck played by Kenneth Ellis that seems pretty similar to the one being discussed here. I personally like the 10 Commandments version a little better because I like maindeck Primal Command a little better than maindeck Broken Ambitions, and I really like being able to play Fertile Ground and Garruk in the same deck. I've made some tweaks to that version and that's what I'll be testing out for upcoming PTQ's, but I had one major question:
The version from GP Birmingham had 4 Broken Ambition's main, I can understand wanting counterspells main (although I like the version with Primal Command, Fertile Ground, and Garruk a little better), what I'm wondering is why the 4 Broken Ambitions in the sideboard of the PTQ list? Is there a particular deck they are very good against? Is there a particular spell this deck has such a hard time dealing with it can't let it resolve? I could see maybe for Mirrorweave?
Oh! One more follow-up question, what are your thoughts on Wheel of Sun and Moon as a sideboard card in this format? I like it in Standard, and while there don't seem to be as many good reasons for it in Block, it still helps against Reveillark and Makeshift Mannequin, but do you think it could be worth it?
I know that for things like Forbidden Orchard and the "Hunted" creatures the ability that puts the creature(s) into play under your opponents control is controlled by you, therefore you own the tokens for something like Brand, but for Pheddagrif and Questing Phelddagriff it's worded differently and says the opponent puts them into play. Does this mean your opponent owns them, or do you still own them if you control the Hippo?
Hey a friend of mine told me about a "competetive" deck that uses Standstill, manlands, and Ninjutsu creatures in Extended. I have never seen this deck, I've seen lists for Ninjaffinity, Landstill, and a couple other various combinations, but nothing that effectively mixes Ninjutsu with Landstill. Does anyone know where I can find a list for a deck like this or a thread about it? Has a deck like this had any relevant showings in the current Extended season?
Nice article! I like the storytelling, but I have to agree that the focus is a little all over the place. From your play style I never realized that you didn't play competitively on a regular basis, you're play is usually pretty tight. Anyway, I'll see you in the top 8!
I am more concerned with CounterTopGoyf / Chase Rare Control than Next Level Blue as I would personally be more likely to play CTG, but for my analysis I am trying to limit my hypothetical metagame to four archetypes, so I'm grouping the two together, I'm also grouping Zoo, Red Deck Wins, and Goblins together as dedicated aggro, although the main one I would consider would be Zoo mainly because I think it's the best choice of the three and I believe it has posted the best results.
Also, I would think CTG and Next Level Blue would have a little better than 20% game 1 agains Dredge. I say this mainly because I figure Doran at about 20% game 1 and the blue decks with Trinket Mage have a bit better plan game 1, even if it is often too slow. I would also think it would be less than 80% game 2 since the only change is usually 2 more Crypts, at least for CTG, where the Drege deck has 4-8 cards to fight them.
Maybe I should only look at CounterTopGoyf and not group it with Next Level Blue, are the matchup percents drastically different for the two decks?
Thanks Phagocytosis! That's pretty helpful, although I would tend to agree with ak1200 that Dredge is probably more like 80% game 1 than 90% since in my testing it tends to lose to its own draws at least 10% of the time and most decks have SOME chance of disrupting enough to win game 1, and probably a little better game 2 than 10% since they have SB cards to match everyone else's SB cards so it can typically just take them a turn or so longer if both players get their SB cards (i.e. bounce for Leyline, Needle for Crypt).
So now I'm mainly looking for matchup info on CounterTopGoyf vs. the other three and any other input/discussion on the figures given.
Hey all, I've been trying to decide what deck to run at a few upcoming Extended tournys and I'm wondering if anyone has input on the different deck's matchup percents? I'm trying to do some statistical analysis on the metagame, so if you're a math geek like me and would be interested in the results of my analysis feel free to PM me.
For the purpose of this analysis I'm trying to limit my "metagame" to 4 archetypes, so I'm combining Next Level Blue with CounterTopGoyf, and combining the "aggro" decks Zoo, Red Deck Wins with Goyf, and Goblins, as I think the matchup percents would be fairly similar for these decks. If anyone has this information it would be greatly appreciated, but if you know where I could find this on multiple decks that would be just as great!
Also, if possible I would LOVE to get data on Game 1 % vs. Game 2/3 %, especially in matchups involving Dredge. Here are the matchups I am looking for, again, preferable prob(Win) pre- and post-sideboard.
Doran vs. Dredge
Doran vs. Zoo/RDW
Doran vs. CounterTopGoyf
CounterTopGoyf vs. Dredge
CounterTopGoyf vs. Zoo/RDW
Zoo/RDW vs. Dredge
Hey I'm trying to decide what to play in a bunch of upcoming extended tournaments. Right now I've narrowed it down to Doran or some form of CounterTopGoyf. I'm leaning pretty heavily toward Doran. I was just curious if anyone has any info on matchup percentages or knows where to find it? Preferably broken down by pre and post sideboard. I'd really like to know:
Doran vs. CounterTopGoyf
Doran vs. Next Level Blue (I assume this matchup is similar to CTG)
Doran vs. Dredge (obv. pre and post sideboard would be most useful here)
Doran vs. Zoo (or dedicated aggro in general)
Again, if anyone has this info it would be useful, but if you know a good place to find it for multiple decks that would be amazing!
White seems undoubtably good, you have some good mana fixing, and a good creature mix. You have good elim and decent creatures in red, I like it much better than your blue. Green seems like the best option for a splash. My take would be to use just those three colosr and rely on the consistency since you have enough power and elim that you don't really need to get lucky with anything. If you wanted though, you could add a swamp to help your tromp and the Ichor Slick. I would make:
You're right in that typically a little life gain on a card is not that great. But I've used this strategy in draft several times. It works for the same reason the Proclamation of Rebirth / Martyr of Sands deck worked in Standard. You gain more life each turn than they can attack with, and you usually have time to get down some flyer or o/w unblockable guy that finishes them off. With all your creatures and kill spells you don't have to be doing it EVERY turn either, you can cast some creatures, kill some of theirs, and gain 9-12 life every few turns or so to stay on top. I'm not exactly sure how the league thing works, but I think you can play games and modify your deck whenever you want, give it a try for a few games, you might be pleasently surprised...
1. Spelling is tech. This was a fun exercise, but I had to click on a lot of the cards to remember them since it's been a while since I played Coldsnap limited and I think about 5 of them were actually spelled right, i.e., "KjelDoran"...
2. 3 Martyr of Sands, 3 Grim Harvest? This used to be my favorite thing in CSP draft, I would force this whenever possible. Not to mention you have early defense, late game finishers, and Garza's Assassin, Gutless Ghoul, and 2 Disciple of Tavesh Szat to go with it?
So, I would play heavy White (you have the creatures for it) for the Martyr's, and heavy black. I think the 2 Blizzard Specter's are worth splashing for, but you could go straight B/W if you wanted, with maybe Rimebound Dead and Balduvian Fallen insead of the Specters. I would play:
I think green is obvious, it's where all your power is. If you can survive 6 or 7 turns you can get Sprout Swarm, Trop the Domains, or Nacatl War-Pride, or any combination of those going and take over. Red looks to me like your only other color with a decent mix of creatures and spells. I would play 17 land in this deck, and I see 19 red and green cards I want to play (listed in final build). This leaves four slots for a splash. Black offers basically Ichor Slick and Urborg Syphon-Mage, which is decent, but not so good in the early game, which is what you're looking for. So to me the choice comes down to:
Amrou Scout
Aven Mindcensor
Blade of the Sixth Pride
Chronosavant
You're not starving for ways to deal with creatures with your red burn, and the three cheap white creatures seem like just what your deck needs, the giant doesn't hurt either. So, I end up with:
I like fridge's build, although I would probably go with black over red here, Sulfurous Blast is good, but you have two bombs in black, and I think better synergy. I think something like:
I like the synergy here with the Blightspeaker and the Outriders, and also there is a couple good black madness and a couple good madness outlets. The one tough choice for me was Think Twice vs. Snapback vs. Dreamscape Artist. I went with the Artist as you want to accelerate into your big endgame creatures as quickly as possible, and it's another good madness outlet. I would want to play all three, but white and black want the most color commitment, making blue a splash, I would side in the Snapback instead against fast tempo/aggro decks.
Well, that's my take, hope that helps.
Edit: On second thought, I'd probably go with the Think Twice over the Dreamscape Artist. It works better with your two black spellshapers, and it has better synergy with Aeon Chronicler. Also the reason I chose not to play Cloudchaser Kestrel is if you draw it in the late game you don't want to have to destroy your Temporal Isolation or Lucent Liminid, and there's no guarantee it will have another target as enchantments aren't all that common in TPF, but it is obviously a great SB option if you see enchantments from your opponent.
I will have 3-4 Crib Swap in the side no matter what, and they will all come in, but I need more and better options. I have though about Wheel of Sun and Moon, but most of the Elemental decks are playing at least one Wispmare main (with 4 Harbingers)
Right now the best I can come up with is 3 Elvish Harbinger, 3 Crib Swap, 1 Chameleon Colossus, and 1 Oversoul of Dusk (with one in the main already). This still doesn't seem to bring game 2 and 3 above 50% for me...
Anyone have any better ideas? Should I resort to Faerie Macabre?
Thanks!
The version from GP Birmingham had 4 Broken Ambition's main, I can understand wanting counterspells main (although I like the version with Primal Command, Fertile Ground, and Garruk a little better), what I'm wondering is why the 4 Broken Ambitions in the sideboard of the PTQ list? Is there a particular deck they are very good against? Is there a particular spell this deck has such a hard time dealing with it can't let it resolve? I could see maybe for Mirrorweave?
Oh! One more follow-up question, what are your thoughts on Wheel of Sun and Moon as a sideboard card in this format? I like it in Standard, and while there don't seem to be as many good reasons for it in Block, it still helps against Reveillark and Makeshift Mannequin, but do you think it could be worth it?
Thanks for any insight!
Thanks!
Thanks!
P.S. Thanks for holding the swamps ;-)
Also, I would think CTG and Next Level Blue would have a little better than 20% game 1 agains Dredge. I say this mainly because I figure Doran at about 20% game 1 and the blue decks with Trinket Mage have a bit better plan game 1, even if it is often too slow. I would also think it would be less than 80% game 2 since the only change is usually 2 more Crypts, at least for CTG, where the Drege deck has 4-8 cards to fight them.
Maybe I should only look at CounterTopGoyf and not group it with Next Level Blue, are the matchup percents drastically different for the two decks?
So now I'm mainly looking for matchup info on CounterTopGoyf vs. the other three and any other input/discussion on the figures given.
Thanks!
For the purpose of this analysis I'm trying to limit my "metagame" to 4 archetypes, so I'm combining Next Level Blue with CounterTopGoyf, and combining the "aggro" decks Zoo, Red Deck Wins with Goyf, and Goblins, as I think the matchup percents would be fairly similar for these decks. If anyone has this information it would be greatly appreciated, but if you know where I could find this on multiple decks that would be just as great!
Also, if possible I would LOVE to get data on Game 1 % vs. Game 2/3 %, especially in matchups involving Dredge. Here are the matchups I am looking for, again, preferable prob(Win) pre- and post-sideboard.
Doran vs. Dredge
Doran vs. Zoo/RDW
Doran vs. CounterTopGoyf
CounterTopGoyf vs. Dredge
CounterTopGoyf vs. Zoo/RDW
Zoo/RDW vs. Dredge
Thanks for any help on this!
Doran vs. CounterTopGoyf
Doran vs. Next Level Blue (I assume this matchup is similar to CTG)
Doran vs. Dredge (obv. pre and post sideboard would be most useful here)
Doran vs. Zoo (or dedicated aggro in general)
Again, if anyone has this info it would be useful, but if you know a good place to find it for multiple decks that would be amazing!
Thanks!
1 Amrou Seekers
1 Benalish Cavalry
1 Stonecloaker
1 Aven Riftwatcher
1 Moorish Cavalry
1 Celestial Crusader
1 Duskrider Perigrine
1 Griffin Guide
1 Fortify
1 Fortune Theif
1 Mogg War Marshal
1 Skirk Shaman
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Lightning Axe
1 Dead/Gone
1 Orcish Cannonade
1 Fiery Temper
1 Tromp the Domains
1 Gaea's Anthem (Or you could play the Ichor Slick over this, in which case replace 1 Forest with 1 Swamp)
1 Coalition Relic
1 Thunder Totem
6 Plains
6 Mountain
3 Forest
1 Terramorphic Expanse
2. 3 Martyr of Sands, 3 Grim Harvest? This used to be my favorite thing in CSP draft, I would force this whenever possible. Not to mention you have early defense, late game finishers, and Garza's Assassin, Gutless Ghoul, and 2 Disciple of Tavesh Szat to go with it?
So, I would play heavy White (you have the creatures for it) for the Martyr's, and heavy black. I think the 2 Blizzard Specter's are worth splashing for, but you could go straight B/W if you wanted, with maybe Rimebound Dead and Balduvian Fallen insead of the Specters. I would play:
3 Martyr of Sands
1 Squall Drifter
1 Ronom Unicorn
2 Surging Sentinels
1 Kjeldoran Outrider
1 Kjeldoran Gargoyle
1 Boreal Griffin
1 Gelid Shackles
1 Zombie Musher
1 Gutless Ghoul
1 Garza's Assassin
2 Disciple of Tavesh Szat
3 Grim Harvest
1 Chill to the Bone
Other:
1 Phyrexian Ironfoot
1 Phyrexian Snowcrusher
2 Blizzard Specter
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Snow-Covered Plains
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Island
6 Swamp
5 Plains
Or something like that, I might try to find room for the Frost Raptor's, but I think it would be too hard on your mana.
Snapback
Aven Augur
Blind Phantasm
Crookclaw Transmuter
vs.
Amrou Scout
Aven Mindcensor
Blade of the Sixth Pride
Chronosavant
You're not starving for ways to deal with creatures with your red burn, and the three cheap white creatures seem like just what your deck needs, the giant doesn't hurt either. So, I end up with:
1 Mire Boa
1 Glass Asp
1 Scarwood Treefolk
1 Nacatl War-Pride
1 Sprout Swarm
1 Strength in Numbers
1 Tromp the Domains
1 Evolution Charm
1 Utopia Vow
1 Basalt Gargoyle
1 Blazing-Blade Askari
1 Prodigal Pyromancer
1 Aetherflame Wall
1 Conflagrate
1 Ghostfire
1 Lightning Axe
1 Orcish Cannonade
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Blade of the Sixth Pride
1 Chronosavant
4 Plains
7 Forest
6 Mountain
1 Sunlace
1 Temporal Isolation
1 Augur il-Vec
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Celestial Crusader
2 Outrider en-Kor
1 Flickering Spirit
1 Ivory Giant
1 Lucent Liminid
1 Ichor Slick
1 Blightspeaker
1 Lim-Dul the Necromancer
1 Nightshade Assassin
1 Stronghold Overseer
1 Undertaker
1 Urborg Syphon-Mage
Blue:
1 Dreamscape Artist
1 Errant Ephemeron
1 Maelstrom Djinn
1 Aeon Chronicler
1 Prismatic Lens
Land:
1 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Island
7 Plains
6 Swamp
I like the synergy here with the Blightspeaker and the Outriders, and also there is a couple good black madness and a couple good madness outlets. The one tough choice for me was Think Twice vs. Snapback vs. Dreamscape Artist. I went with the Artist as you want to accelerate into your big endgame creatures as quickly as possible, and it's another good madness outlet. I would want to play all three, but white and black want the most color commitment, making blue a splash, I would side in the Snapback instead against fast tempo/aggro decks.
Well, that's my take, hope that helps.
Edit: On second thought, I'd probably go with the Think Twice over the Dreamscape Artist. It works better with your two black spellshapers, and it has better synergy with Aeon Chronicler. Also the reason I chose not to play Cloudchaser Kestrel is if you draw it in the late game you don't want to have to destroy your Temporal Isolation or Lucent Liminid, and there's no guarantee it will have another target as enchantments aren't all that common in TPF, but it is obviously a great SB option if you see enchantments from your opponent.