I have been testing Myr Battlesphere with good results. It blocks Death's Shadow an extra four times, in fact choosing it was inspired by Tsuyoshi Ikeda's Spectral Procession tech to fight 20/20 Dark Depths tokens. On top of that, it doesn't just lose value if bounced, which has frustrated me when trying to stick a Wurmcoil Engine. Was able to steal games vs Flickerwisp that Wurmcoil would have floundered in. Extra bodies also means more Throne of the God-Pharaoh damage. Give it a try?
I do like the idea of a 1/1 split with engine/battlesphere in the main. Gonna try that out
Can someone help me rationalize the Master of Etherium tech? There are so many games I get him out and he only pumps one other card in play, while being a pretty mediocre 3CMC to show for it.
I've dropped him. Switched to Myr Superion which just feels better. 3CMC is a clunky spot in this deck, and so many board states he's a 2/2 that pumps nothing vs a 5/6 monster. There is a possibility you could move trinket mages to the main instead of superions but haven't tested that yet.
Edit: Attached an image of a hilarious boardstate of a game I played this evening, slight argument for Big daddy Myr Superion
The problem with the swords in my testing is every matchup you want the swords, they are the deck with quite a bit of artifact hate (jund, DS) in the form of ancient grudge, k command, and abrut decay, where spending 5 mana to play/equip to only get Shatter would be too much of a blowout.
I'm so torn on Myr Superion lately. Feels great when you can turn 2 it with a 1 drop/chief, really puts the pressure on. Obviously can get stuck in your hand but feel like the risk is almost worth it. Master of Etherium can be pretty mediocre at times.
I have been testing Myr Superion myself lately, over Master of Etherium. I'm torn. On one hand, Etherium can be really bad some games, a 2/2 or 3/3 maybe pumping one other creature. In multiples he is really good but that isn't always happening. He is great for getting Copter out of bolt range, but with bolt falling out of favor, it's bonus isn't really useful when it's a sub par card on its own.
Myr Superion is definitely good when you can go 1 drop - chief - convoke it out. Huge beater that can attack through almost everything. Can occasionally get stuck in your hand but there is a lot of ways to get it out. Will keep testing but would love to hear other peoples experiences.
Has anyone tested the following extensively? Been debating all these in the 1 of land slot and wondering if anyone has any good/bad experiences with them. Currently figure I can run 2 utility land and already have one Academy Ruin’s… Inventor’s Fair Sea Gate Wreckage
I like the idea of fair, the gaining one life is probably rarely useful but I wouldn’t complain gaining 1-3 life over the course of a game against burn. I do love the idea of being able to search for any artifacts in the midgame and possible immediately cast with a Grand Architect or Chief Engineer out, although being a turn 5 earliest play does make me slightly dubious to it’s inclusion.
Sea Gate Wreckage also seems good – I find against the grindy midrange decks we run out of gas quickly and empty our hand, drawing 2 cards a turn on your upkeep seems good to me.
Next query is in the sideboard, I like having 1-2 slots against any removal heavy matchups, and currently am debating between the following 3 cards.. Kira, Great Glass-Spinner Scrap Trawler Padeem, Consul of Innovation
Kira pumps Mausoleum Wanderer and costs 3 and flies, which is relevant and requires 2 pieces of removal before touching your other creatures.
Scrap Trawler seems good against mass removal and gives you some choice on return but doesn’t protect your mana/convoke enablers.
Padeem protects your artifacts and draws you cards but himself dies to removal and costs 4 and cannot be accelerated out, and doesn’t protect your architects or engineers.
Anyone have any good/bad experience with these?
Hi there, I have a question about Trinket Mage.
I have seen several sideboards that include 2 Trinket Mages and a package of targets. But sometimes the package includes 2 copies of a card, like 2 Relic or 2 Grafdigger's Cage.
Why not play one more Trinket Mage and play a package of all one-ofs? You might lose a small chance to play turn 1 graveyard hate, but you gain an extra Trinket Mage in every match up where you need a card from your package.
Against a deck where you need your hate card early to have the biggest impact, I'd rather have the extra copy of that then the trinket mage. Trinket Mage is coming down turn 3 earliest and only casting the hate card for free if you have a sculptor out or a Grand Architect. Just a small little thing to have a better chance of naturally drawing it.
with the disruptive game plan going along with the aggro, would Hope of Ghirapur be any good? its a 1 drop so fits in with the game plan, can be fetched against combo with trinket mage, and could often buy you that 1 extra turn I find I need to seal up quite a few games
I can't think of an instance where I'd rather get Hope over better hate like Relic or Cage or Needle, myself.
Has anyone had any success in finding a card draw effect that fits well into the list?
I've been testing Bident of Thassa but more often then not it feels clunky. The times it's drawn me a lot of cards I was already ahead usually. Academy Ruins has been great but being a one of it's obviously not too reliable. I find myself wanting a card to get ahead in card advantage against the grindy decks like Jund, Abzan, and Death's Shadow varieties. Any one have any suggestions?
Random question : Has anyone seen any product made directly with storm in mind? A mana "card" to track your pool, dice/ect made specifically for storm? I doubt it (and don't need it) but wondered if there was anything made to better display everything for both yourself and your opponent.
I copied the quote below from the weekly SCG Modern thread about the 160-person Modern Premier IQ in Indianapolis this weekend. Very diverse and aggro-oriented top 16; it's worth checking out the results. I think this person's comment is relevant to the ongoing pyroclasm discussion.
Hey guys, I just got home from Indy. I was the guy in 11th with the Bant Conscription deck. In the last round some of the x-1's didn't want to ID, so one 6-2 made Top 8, but unfortunately my pretty good breakers were not quite good enough.
The field at large had a seemingly ENORMOUS amount of Affinity in it. I played against Affinity 4 times out of 8 rounds (3 in the early rounds including against one of the guys who Top 8'd with it, and once in the late rounds). A few other players I talked to remarked about the relative lack of Junk decks, I believe only two Junk decks were spotted near the top tables. Looking around at the top tables, I didn't see any Scapeshift players at all and only saw one Tron deck -- the lack of pyroclasms obviously was nice for me and for the guy who was tearing it up with Elves but came up just short.
The most interesting rogue deck I saw was in Round 8, a guy was playing a Soul Sisters deck with Return to the Ranks and had Viscera Seers and Blood Artists. He told me that Sam Black had written about it and he and his buddy had adjusted it from that list, iirc.
BTW, I was amazed at how many people had to read Sovereigns of Lost Alara. Like I think all day maybe only one guy didn't pick it up and stare at it. I had to fetch the English copy of Conscription all day instead of my foreign one just to avoid a million calls for oracle text. Both these cards were played in what was arguably the best deck in Standard only 4 years ago, so I have to surmise there are a lot of people playing Modern who didn't play in ALA/ZEN standard, which says something about the game's growth during that span.
I just wish there was a better alternative to pyroclasm. I've been testing firespout and it's good sometimes but miserable the others (but not that pyro would be much better.) When it's bad it's really bad (pyroclasm) but it can just bail you out sometimes against the hyper-aggro decks.
I've been testing dropping the pyro's and 2 relics and adding 4 explore and 2 more lands (extra forest and an extra ghost quarter). This can allow you to both play and pop an Oblivion Stone turn 3 (in magical christmas land, mind you) as well as firespouts as direct replacements. I find all my affinity matches come down to me seeing enough hate for inkmoth nexus, which is why I added a second ghost quarter.
The issue is that in all those MUs, he's much better than Pyroclasm. Ugin can effectively answer Serra Ascendant in a way that Pyroclasm can't, it can provide a 3-turn clock vs Blue Tron, Junk isn't as great of a matchup as he once was (and it's much better than Clasm there), and Clasm only hits Guides and Eidolons from Burn (and that's if they don't have the Mutagenic Growth; it'll never kill Swiftspears regardless). It also effectively saves you 2 life over Clasm from Eidolon
You can't look at it as a pyroclasm versus ugin vacuum. One is an 8 drop you aren't slamming unless you have assembled tron (or it's a late turn which you will have to have lived too). Look at what you were using as examples as to ugins worth. I've been testing near exclusivley against the aggro decks of the new meta - affinity, zoo, burn - I can tell you in that vacuum pyroclasm is strictly better. As much as you think ugin is a strictly better then pyroclasm, yeah in magic christmas land where you t3 tron every game and drop him, sure, much better then pyro. But the games you are struggling to put it together and need a sweep, you are going to be missing pyroclasm. Which is why I'm trying to find a similar replacement as pyroclasm, while doing work in those, leaves a little to be desired.
My testing has led me in the opposite direction. Pyroclasm has been nothing but miserable, and Spellskite has reigned supreme. Big Zoo is all the rage nowadays, and no one's running the types of small creatures that get hit by clasm. True, your opponent is trying to disrupt your Tron. But in game 1, it should be relatively easy to hit Tron with relative consistency, and in game 1, Ugin is better than Pyroclasm in every matchup except for Affinity (even considering the mana difference). From that point, you run Pyroclasms in your SB, so you have access to them for game 2.
I've seen various reports claiming that Pyroclasm wasn't great before the Pod/TC ban, and after the Pod/TC ban, the 2 biggest MUs that were hurt by the card are now gone. I'd honestly rather run MD Combusts than Pyroclasm, because Combust hits Twin, blue/white-based control, Junk, Merfolk, and even Zoo (Smiter, Anafenza, Rhino) far better than Pyroclasm does. But Combust is useless against Burn, Scapeshift, Affinity, etc. - that's why I run Ugin.
Building Magic decks is something you have to do with the metagame in mind. Right now, regardless of your thoughts on Ugin, Combust and Spellskite are both better cards than Pyroclasm and Relic of Progenitus. But while Combust and Pyroclasm are both dead in certain MUs (Spellskite funnily is dead in almost no MU), Ugin hedges against the entire field better than Pyroclasm or Combust individually. That's why I'm running 3 Pyroclasm/Combust in the SB, but 4 Ugin in the MD. Because Ugin's guaranteed to be a live card (to some extent) G1, and we want live cards in our deck.
How can you make such statements like they are "strictly better"? There is no metagame yet. We've had 0 large scale tournaments, no pro tour with the banning, and really no clue where it will settle. If you want to make your deck to tailor to your local game store, be my guest but I'm here looking for feedback on a broad, GP/Pro tour level basis because that's what I'm testing for. Until I've played hundreds of games against every single deck that may become a chunk of the metagame, there is no way I could say "regardless of your thoughts on X, Y is strictly better". Have you tested that extensively against every deck in the format? I can't believe in just over 2 weeks you have. All of these options (pyro, ugin, spellskite, ect ect) to me are still very live in such a fresh format now. Sure, I'd rather have Ugin against junk. But if they run bob? No, now i'd want pyro back. If I play affinity? Now I want pyro back (or a valid replacement.) UWR Control? Now I want ugin.
What I'm getting at is until we have clear cut look at the format or you can tell me you've jammed 100 games against the entire expected metagame, theres no way you can slam dunk eliminate a card from a testing gauntlet.
The issue is that in all those MUs, he's much better than Pyroclasm. Ugin can effectively answer Serra Ascendant in a way that Pyroclasm can't, it can provide a 3-turn clock vs Blue Tron, Junk isn't as great of a matchup as he once was (and it's much better than Clasm there), and Clasm only hits Guides and Eidolons from Burn (and that's if they don't have the Mutagenic Growth; it'll never kill Swiftspears regardless). It also effectively saves you 2 life over Clasm from Eidolon
You can't look at it as a pyroclasm versus ugin vacuum. One is an 8 drop you aren't slamming unless you have assembled tron (or it's a late turn which you will have to have lived too). Look at what you were using as examples as to ugins worth. I've been testing near exclusivley against the aggro decks of the new meta - affinity, zoo, burn - I can tell you in that vacuum pyroclasm is strictly better. As much as you think ugin is a strictly better then pyroclasm, yeah in magic christmas land where you t3 tron every game and drop him, sure, much better then pyro. But the games you are struggling to put it together and need a sweep, you are going to be missing pyroclasm. Which is why I'm trying to find a similar replacement as pyroclasm, while doing work in those, leaves a little to be desired.
Ok, so I ran my list in a 14 player local Modern event, easily went 4-0 with it. Never felt that Ugin should have been a O-stone.. I was ALWAYS happy to see him.
Mono U tron: 2-0 | First game I had natural tron and went Karn into Karn, deck has a tendenancy to do this, second game was grindy but I managed to Slaugher Games his Mindslaver and worked my way through a Sundering Titan & pair of Wurmcoils into Emrakul, game.
Junk: 2-0 | Ugin is so gross in this matchup, they need to address Karn immediately and then your followup play is a even bigger & badder Walker, figures.
Burn: 2-1 | I lost the first match, and I close the second 2 on the back of Ugin wiping the board and just buying me time to resolve Coils for the win... Ugin is perfect vs Burn imo, just feels insane.
Martyr proc: 2-0 | this is a straight auto-win, I don't see how we can lose this mu especially now with the Ugins just X = 1 completely obliterating the board
Ugin is the real deal guys, you should run atleast 3 to feel the shear power. I didn't miss the O-stones in a single match (I'm running 1 mb, 1 sb at the moment).
I have a Modern pPTQ this weekend and I'm currently making my decklist, this is the exact same list as written up last page, I'm more than confident with it.
Let's take a look at this
Monu U Tron Ugin had no effect here and seems like it really wouldn't be amazing (granted O-stone's probably aren't amazing this match up)
Junk This is already a really good match up, slamming an ugin versus any other threat is really just win more
Burn Yeah, sure ugin is great if you can slam him turn 4, wouldnt pyroclasm/sweeper just have done the same thing? Or even an O-stone. Burn really only runs like 12 permanents
Martyr As you said, auto win, ugin is just a win more.
I agree Ugin is good, but all of your examples an Ostone/sweeper effect would have done the same thing and possible came on-line earlier then ugin and not dependant on a t3/t4 tron. I wouldnt say those examples can conclude anything.
I do like the idea of a 1/1 split with engine/battlesphere in the main. Gonna try that out
I've dropped him. Switched to Myr Superion which just feels better. 3CMC is a clunky spot in this deck, and so many board states he's a 2/2 that pumps nothing vs a 5/6 monster. There is a possibility you could move trinket mages to the main instead of superions but haven't tested that yet.
Edit: Attached an image of a hilarious boardstate of a game I played this evening, slight argument for Big daddy Myr Superion
Myr Superion is definitely good when you can go 1 drop - chief - convoke it out. Huge beater that can attack through almost everything. Can occasionally get stuck in your hand but there is a lot of ways to get it out. Will keep testing but would love to hear other peoples experiences.
Inventor’s Fair
Sea Gate Wreckage
I like the idea of fair, the gaining one life is probably rarely useful but I wouldn’t complain gaining 1-3 life over the course of a game against burn. I do love the idea of being able to search for any artifacts in the midgame and possible immediately cast with a Grand Architect or Chief Engineer out, although being a turn 5 earliest play does make me slightly dubious to it’s inclusion.
Sea Gate Wreckage also seems good – I find against the grindy midrange decks we run out of gas quickly and empty our hand, drawing 2 cards a turn on your upkeep seems good to me.
Next query is in the sideboard, I like having 1-2 slots against any removal heavy matchups, and currently am debating between the following 3 cards..
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
Scrap Trawler
Padeem, Consul of Innovation
Kira pumps Mausoleum Wanderer and costs 3 and flies, which is relevant and requires 2 pieces of removal before touching your other creatures.
Scrap Trawler seems good against mass removal and gives you some choice on return but doesn’t protect your mana/convoke enablers.
Padeem protects your artifacts and draws you cards but himself dies to removal and costs 4 and cannot be accelerated out, and doesn’t protect your architects or engineers.
Anyone have any good/bad experience with these?
Against a deck where you need your hate card early to have the biggest impact, I'd rather have the extra copy of that then the trinket mage. Trinket Mage is coming down turn 3 earliest and only casting the hate card for free if you have a sculptor out or a Grand Architect. Just a small little thing to have a better chance of naturally drawing it.
I can't think of an instance where I'd rather get Hope over better hate like Relic or Cage or Needle, myself.
I've been testing Bident of Thassa but more often then not it feels clunky. The times it's drawn me a lot of cards I was already ahead usually. Academy Ruins has been great but being a one of it's obviously not too reliable. I find myself wanting a card to get ahead in card advantage against the grindy decks like Jund, Abzan, and Death's Shadow varieties. Any one have any suggestions?
As do I! I just figured there may be some sweet thing some of the storm nuts made for the sole purpose that also is cool/neat.
I just wish there was a better alternative to pyroclasm. I've been testing firespout and it's good sometimes but miserable the others (but not that pyro would be much better.) When it's bad it's really bad (pyroclasm) but it can just bail you out sometimes against the hyper-aggro decks.
I've been testing dropping the pyro's and 2 relics and adding 4 explore and 2 more lands (extra forest and an extra ghost quarter). This can allow you to both play and pop an Oblivion Stone turn 3 (in magical christmas land, mind you) as well as firespouts as direct replacements. I find all my affinity matches come down to me seeing enough hate for inkmoth nexus, which is why I added a second ghost quarter.
How can you make such statements like they are "strictly better"? There is no metagame yet. We've had 0 large scale tournaments, no pro tour with the banning, and really no clue where it will settle. If you want to make your deck to tailor to your local game store, be my guest but I'm here looking for feedback on a broad, GP/Pro tour level basis because that's what I'm testing for. Until I've played hundreds of games against every single deck that may become a chunk of the metagame, there is no way I could say "regardless of your thoughts on X, Y is strictly better". Have you tested that extensively against every deck in the format? I can't believe in just over 2 weeks you have. All of these options (pyro, ugin, spellskite, ect ect) to me are still very live in such a fresh format now. Sure, I'd rather have Ugin against junk. But if they run bob? No, now i'd want pyro back. If I play affinity? Now I want pyro back (or a valid replacement.) UWR Control? Now I want ugin.
What I'm getting at is until we have clear cut look at the format or you can tell me you've jammed 100 games against the entire expected metagame, theres no way you can slam dunk eliminate a card from a testing gauntlet.
You can't look at it as a pyroclasm versus ugin vacuum. One is an 8 drop you aren't slamming unless you have assembled tron (or it's a late turn which you will have to have lived too). Look at what you were using as examples as to ugins worth. I've been testing near exclusivley against the aggro decks of the new meta - affinity, zoo, burn - I can tell you in that vacuum pyroclasm is strictly better. As much as you think ugin is a strictly better then pyroclasm, yeah in magic christmas land where you t3 tron every game and drop him, sure, much better then pyro. But the games you are struggling to put it together and need a sweep, you are going to be missing pyroclasm. Which is why I'm trying to find a similar replacement as pyroclasm, while doing work in those, leaves a little to be desired.
Let's take a look at this
Monu U Tron Ugin had no effect here and seems like it really wouldn't be amazing (granted O-stone's probably aren't amazing this match up)
Junk This is already a really good match up, slamming an ugin versus any other threat is really just win more
Burn Yeah, sure ugin is great if you can slam him turn 4, wouldnt pyroclasm/sweeper just have done the same thing? Or even an O-stone. Burn really only runs like 12 permanents
Martyr As you said, auto win, ugin is just a win more.
I agree Ugin is good, but all of your examples an Ostone/sweeper effect would have done the same thing and possible came on-line earlier then ugin and not dependant on a t3/t4 tron. I wouldnt say those examples can conclude anything.
I can't see myself going past the 1 I'm running.