if i remember, before winter orb got banned, doran decks don't use it, right?
I don't think Doran ever cut Winter Orb (unless you wanted to play Birthing Pod/ramp into Primeval Titan kinda Doran). But after Orb and Cataclysm bans, people gradually accepted the 2 Armageddon plan (before that, 1 'geddon was enough and it was considered worse than either Orb or Cataclysm).
Interesting decklist. Why didn't he play Goyf? Budget reasons? On the other hand, he was playing Ravages of War..
I don't know about the inclusion of Birthing Pod/Survival of the Fittest. Chaining some mana dork->Voice of Resurgence->Kitchen Finks->Braids seems like a really good stax branch. On the other hand, creature count is a bit low, at least for Survival. Maybe still good to have an option to grab Maggots/bullets in such a big tourney..
Doran is pretty strong option, but for it to be effective you need a good manabase. If you can build in lines of 6 duals/9 fetches (then everything else, filters, pains, checks etc.) the rest of the deck will come together nicely. This deck needs its mana to be really flexible to go like T1 Elf, T2 Doran, T3 Elspeth. Or next game maybe T1 Hymn T2 Courser, etc. This is only achievable through good (also expensive) manabase.
EDIT: Seeing your signature (decks) i think you can put together good enough of a manabase:)
Against Narset, disrupt their mana ramp (strip the lands, discard or disenchant rocks) and go for early Doran. Dont overextend into Wraths (and your elves into Fire/Ice or such). Edicts are good, like Liliana of the Veil and Chainer's Edict, also Diabolic Edict (instant speed via Tainted Pact when Narset is hasted). I guess that if you can stick and protect Gaddock Teeg (via Mother of Runes, equips), it can be awesome, too. Council's Judgement, well placed Mana Tithe (against some 3cmc mana rock or Narset herself) and Armgaeddon. Card advantage like Phyrexian Arena early can be good, too, but i think for turn 2 i prefer Doran, since you have to kill him early.
Retainers is banned anyway, i think he means Imperial Recruiter.
Btw i think Gaddock Teeg is still the card to play, since this deck really hates to see resolved big sweepers such as Armageddon, Wrath of God or Wildfire. It's true they will probably Pyroclasm and still Wildfire us, but you can drop some counters on Teeg to protect him, or Mom, etc.
Mirrodin lands, as already stated, provide 1st turn green dork mana and do NOT allways etbt. If they do, its lategame and you have other forms of mana allready available. Relying on fetches to enable Retreat is risky buisness, so if they Censor your fetch or Waste that green, then you are in a world of hurt.
Also, why did you cut Sylvan Library? I can understand dropping SoFaF, but Library im very fond of. Helps you build mana plus play threats and pull that game winning combo out of nowhere..
@Macius- most of the time, it plays some dudes, search for some more then searches up Mirror Entity FTW. Other times it just plays Crusade and bashes. The amount of mana rocks it plays guarantees that it can play its general multiple times. It is also pretty sweeper resistant as you can recycle dead rebels back in the deck for another go. It also has a toolbox and can search up silver bullets eot (exile red/black, Children, shadow pinger etc.). Does not like to face Aven Mindcensor or Linvala, though:)
TGSovereign- yeah, i asked that too, but i think he said it is hard to assemble due to limited land search and he doesn't like cheesy "infinite" combos. The amount of good Rebels is low and the two make a good combat pair (against Doran even better). I would play at least one of the aforementioned lands, though.
Some people are testing Derevi (one or two good lists) and i have seen one Prossh list (pretty good actually) and one Marath (but not a cometitive list). Bear in mind our meta is still developing so not all the lists are optimized and some general choices seem odd, but our meta works like that. I predict more new generals in the future!:)
Cheap and efficient threats, backed by some kind of disruption, either discard, counters, hatebears or recursion. For example, in Doran, you can play 2nd turn commander, if they counter that you have Teeg, Voice, Stoneforge, Arena, Cavern of Souls, etc. You know, the cards that cause headaches to your average blue mage:tongue:
Indeed, playing against undeveloped decks that have a lot of basics hurts Norin. It's the deck you want to unleash upon al the tri- and more colored decks that play all the fetches, duals, Reflecting Pools and whatnot.
Your budget cuts are not that hard. I think the first upgrade you need are fetchlads with Crucible of Worlds. Snow lands are not even that important and you will get that Recruiter eventually.
We also like the game of waiting and sculpting hands, which is preferred to the games where every 6/6 wurm tries to stomp on the ever elusive Norin. Insurrection isn’t an automatic cut, I think you should play it if your meta demands it. Warp World and Pandemonium are sometimes questionable plays against stompy/agro players, so be Vary. I suggest “Wake of Destruction after sweeper” treatment against mono green fatty players before even considering giving them full board of awesome with Warp World.
Just be patient. You don't need to force out your guys because this is not an aggro goblin deck. You never should be the prime reason for someone to sweep the board. The plan of RummagingSquee is just fine. Welder and Kiki-Jiki should be late game bombs anyway.
Try to lay low, present yourself as "easily killable but valuable because of the tricks and draw7s" instead of "highly abusive prime target". Don't overdo it, because by now, everyone knows the strength of Norin, they just tend to forget that often if you play it right.
Your cards WILL get blown up. So try to maximize their potential. Confusion in the Ranks is a card you should sandbag for a while and then for a bit more. If you cast it at the right time and cover it with some tokens, you should win. Also, try to donate stuff that doesn’t care who owns it so you disperse your threat and gain some trinkets (ie. Confusion, Teferi’s Puzzle Box, Genesis Chamber).
Stingscourger has its limitations, but you should always combine it with something else. It’s not meant to bounce Primordials if you don’t have Wheel of Fortune in plan or something.
The deck isn’t easy to play and your plan changes as the game goes on. Try to figure out what needs to be done and you should be golden.
Of all the possible choices i still like Pandemonium the most. It's dangerous, sure, but also the strongest. If you can't use it, just discard it and be done with it..
Hm, what an unpleasant enviroment to play in So basically anything powerful that will win on regular basis can be house-banned where you play? Because it's impossible to argue with people like that.
When my playgroup got tired of Karador the Bonkers (back then when Primeval was legal) i switched to Gaka's Norin. It's a hilarious deck and at the same time it doesn't really look that strong on paper so you can't really ban it into oblivion.
Hm Sower of Temptation or Phyrexian Metamorph. Its is kinda a hard question Metamorph is more versatile but Sower is a power house. Stealing a general is always fun and really mean
Yeah, but outright killing the said general is safer. I can see your dilemma, though:)
I don't think Doran ever cut Winter Orb (unless you wanted to play Birthing Pod/ramp into Primeval Titan kinda Doran). But after Orb and Cataclysm bans, people gradually accepted the 2 Armageddon plan (before that, 1 'geddon was enough and it was considered worse than either Orb or Cataclysm).
I don't know about the inclusion of Birthing Pod/Survival of the Fittest. Chaining some mana dork->Voice of Resurgence->Kitchen Finks->Braids seems like a really good stax branch. On the other hand, creature count is a bit low, at least for Survival. Maybe still good to have an option to grab Maggots/bullets in such a big tourney..
Also, what is Falkenrath Marauders supposed to be? Cartel Aristocrat? Fleshbag Marauder?
Doran is pretty strong option, but for it to be effective you need a good manabase. If you can build in lines of 6 duals/9 fetches (then everything else, filters, pains, checks etc.) the rest of the deck will come together nicely. This deck needs its mana to be really flexible to go like T1 Elf, T2 Doran, T3 Elspeth. Or next game maybe T1 Hymn T2 Courser, etc. This is only achievable through good (also expensive) manabase.
EDIT: Seeing your signature (decks) i think you can put together good enough of a manabase:)
Against Narset, disrupt their mana ramp (strip the lands, discard or disenchant rocks) and go for early Doran. Dont overextend into Wraths (and your elves into Fire/Ice or such). Edicts are good, like Liliana of the Veil and Chainer's Edict, also Diabolic Edict (instant speed via Tainted Pact when Narset is hasted). I guess that if you can stick and protect Gaddock Teeg (via Mother of Runes, equips), it can be awesome, too. Council's Judgement, well placed Mana Tithe (against some 3cmc mana rock or Narset herself) and Armgaeddon. Card advantage like Phyrexian Arena early can be good, too, but i think for turn 2 i prefer Doran, since you have to kill him early.
Btw i think Gaddock Teeg is still the card to play, since this deck really hates to see resolved big sweepers such as Armageddon, Wrath of God or Wildfire. It's true they will probably Pyroclasm and still Wildfire us, but you can drop some counters on Teeg to protect him, or Mom, etc.
TGSovereign- yeah, i asked that too, but i think he said it is hard to assemble due to limited land search and he doesn't like cheesy "infinite" combos. The amount of good Rebels is low and the two make a good combat pair (against Doran even better). I would play at least one of the aforementioned lands, though.
Your budget cuts are not that hard. I think the first upgrade you need are fetchlads with Crucible of Worlds. Snow lands are not even that important and you will get that Recruiter eventually.
We also like the game of waiting and sculpting hands, which is preferred to the games where every 6/6 wurm tries to stomp on the ever elusive Norin. Insurrection isn’t an automatic cut, I think you should play it if your meta demands it.
Warp World and Pandemonium are sometimes questionable plays against stompy/agro players, so be Vary. I suggest “Wake of Destruction after sweeper” treatment against mono green fatty players before even considering giving them full board of awesome with Warp World.
Just be patient. You don't need to force out your guys because this is not an aggro goblin deck. You never should be the prime reason for someone to sweep the board. The plan of Rummaging Squee is just fine. Welder and Kiki-Jiki should be late game bombs anyway.
Try to lay low, present yourself as "easily killable but valuable because of the tricks and draw7s" instead of "highly abusive prime target". Don't overdo it, because by now, everyone knows the strength of Norin, they just tend to forget that often if you play it right.
Your cards WILL get blown up. So try to maximize their potential. Confusion in the Ranks is a card you should sandbag for a while and then for a bit more. If you cast it at the right time and cover it with some tokens, you should win. Also, try to donate stuff that doesn’t care who owns it so you disperse your threat and gain some trinkets (ie. Confusion, Teferi’s Puzzle Box, Genesis Chamber).
Stingscourger has its limitations, but you should always combine it with something else. It’s not meant to bounce Primordials if you don’t have Wheel of Fortune in plan or something.
The deck isn’t easy to play and your plan changes as the game goes on. Try to figure out what needs to be done and you should be golden.
When my playgroup got tired of Karador the Bonkers (back then when Primeval was legal) i switched to Gaka's Norin. It's a hilarious deck and at the same time it doesn't really look that strong on paper so you can't really ban it into oblivion.
On the Karador Wincons-black and green Primordial, Minion Reflector, Nim Deathmantle, Mikaeus, the Unhallowed, Living Death, Mirror Entity, Ghostway, Mimic Vat, Geth, Lord of the Vault, Cabal Coffers, Exanguinate all seem like good choices. Some of them don't win the game on the spot, but your people really don't like to see that, now do they?
Yeah, but outright killing the said general is safer. I can see your dilemma, though:)